Dynaverse.net

Off Topic => Holodeck => Topic started by: Rat Boy on March 08, 2007, 10:51:47 am

Title: Star Trek XI writers: Film a re-imagining, not prequel
Post by: Rat Boy on March 08, 2007, 10:51:47 am: From Trek Web (http://trekweb.com/articles/2007/03/08/Roberto-Orci-and-Alex-Kurtzman-Reveal.shtml)

Well, there goes about half my enthusiasm.
Title: Re: Star Trek XI writers: Film a re-imagining, not prequel
Post by: Lieutenant_Q on March 08, 2007, 11:18:15 am: Sounds like the same crap that was spewed out before the BSG remake went live.

And we all saw what that got us...

Thanks guys... You let them ruin a borderline Sci-fi genre, now looks what it's gotten us into...
Title: Re: Star Trek XI writers: Film a re-imagining, not prequel
Post by: Commander Maxillius on March 08, 2007, 11:34:04 am: As long as James T Kirk doesn't become Janine T Kirk I'm good :P

Seriously, it could be great!
Title: Re: Star Trek XI writers: Film a re-imagining, not prequel
Post by: Lieutenant_Q on March 08, 2007, 11:37:10 am: I can see it now.

Kirk will be gay, Spock will be a female with an on again-off again intimate relationship with McCoy.
Title: Re: Star Trek XI writers: Film a re-imagining, not prequel
Post by: Commander La'ra on March 08, 2007, 11:49:36 am: This is probably the best thing they could do.

Trek, over the years, has gotten farther and farther away from the semi-racy (yeah, it was for it's time) social and philisophical commentary spliced with adventure that TOS did so well. With TNG, preaching and technobabble was the order of the day, and that just got worse with Voyager. Enterprise tried to get some of that back...but it had the misfortune of being saddled with B&B's wishes to do a time travel series and some truly hit or miss writing.

Worse, Trekkies are getting more and more snarky about useless details, like the NX-01 'looking like the Akira'.

So the re-imagining idea might be the best way to go. Tell a good story with the NCC-1701 and crew and extend a nice middle finger to anyone who bitches about the details, and they might just reignite the franchise (like Casino Royale did for Bond).

Yeah, there's potential for disaster, but there always is.
Title: Re: Star Trek XI writers: Film a re-imagining, not prequel
Post by: Dash Jones on March 08, 2007, 05:52:42 pm: I'd say since it's going to be early days of Kirk, it could be successful...but the problem with Trek is that if you please the fans...they'll save your series at least for another season...but if you displease them...they'll bury you.

Period.
Title: Re: Star Trek XI writers: Film a re-imagining, not prequel
Post by: AcePylut on March 12, 2007, 04:35:19 pm: This main plot of this film has to be about the Kobiyashi Maru (sp) scenario. That imho is the most referenced "pre-Star Trek" incident ever referred to in all of the series. That scenario is the one that defines Kirk.

So I'd like to see that scenario done "during the Academy", followed by a "rl" Kobiyashi Maru type scenario to end the film.
Title: Re: Star Trek XI writers: Film a re-imagining, not prequel
Post by: TheJudge on March 12, 2007, 05:29:48 pm: Quote from: AcePylut on March 12, 2007, 04:35:19 pm
This main plot of this film has to be about the Kobiyashi Maru (sp) scenario. That imho is the most referenced "pre-Star Trek" incident ever referred to in all of the series. That scenario is the one that defines Kirk.

So I'd like to see that scenario done "during the Academy", followed by a "rl" Kobiyashi Maru type scenario to end the film.

You mean like STII: The Wrath of Khan?

Since this is a 'reimagining' situation...

The Federation is engaged in a low-grade border skirmish with the Klingon Empire that occasionally flares up into armed conflict. Political forces in the Federation are split, with a major side (led by the Vulcans) pushing for peaceful negotiations and a second side (led by Tellarite and/or Andorians) pushing for Starfleet to abandon their scientific role and adopt a pure military role. Humans and some other major Federation races are equally split on the issue...

Act One:

Commander James T. Kirk commanding a border patrol picket ship picks up a distress call from a freighter that was attacked and is now powerless, drifting into the neutral zone. Kirk investigates and decides it is a trap, which he knowingly springs. When the Klingons attack from their hiding place, he smashes them into nearby asteroids using a clever tractor beam manuever, and saves the freighter.

Meanwhile on-board the USS Enterprise, NCC-1701 currently in orbit over Earth, Commander Spock, the ship's first officer, is walking with Captain Pike, discussing the possibility of Pike's appointment to the Admiralty. Pike's position as an advocate of not abandoning Starfleet's Research and Exploration role is well known and we get a sense of the conflict within the Federation. Spock of course supports his Captain's position and encourages him to take the Admiralty position, but Pike wonders who will replace him as Captain of the Enterprise.

As the two pass through Engineering, a coolant line explodes, injuring several crewmembers. Pike orders Spock to assist several injured crewmembers while he shuts down the coolant system. Spock goes back in to save him after saving the other crew members, but Pike is severely injured, his career in Starfleet over.

Commander James T. Kirk is recalled to Earth, where he receives a medal for his valor and bravery. He is called in to speak to a human Admiral that is a key figure in the side advocating a militant starfleet. James Kirk seems supportive of the hints dropped by the Admiral, agreeing that the Federation must be protected from those who would destroy it. The Admiral seems pleased, and announces that after Captain Pike's serious injury, the Federation's finest ship needs a new captain, and James T. Kirk will be that Captain. Kirk is happy, and goes to celebrate with his best friend, Dr. Leonard H. McCoy. During dinner, he talks McCoy into reactivating his Starfleet comission, which upsets McCoy's wife. She threatens to leave him if he goes back into Starfleet. McCoy is torn and calls Jim back to tell him he can't go...

Hmmm, you know, maybe I should just write this script...what do y'all think?

Oh, and the end of the movie...

These are the voyages of the Starship Enterprise. Her five year mission, to seek out new worlds and new civilizations. To boldly go where no one has gone before....(Tells you which side wins the debate in the movie...but now how...Oh, and McCoy/Spock will carry out the argument of both sides in the debate throughout the movie, with Kirk in the middle as different crisis erupts. A subplot will be the investigation by Spock into the accident, during which we meet Assistant Chief Engineer Montgomery Scott, New Helsman Lieutenant Hikaru Sulu, Assistant Communications Officer, Ensign Uhura, Senior Cadet Pavel Chekhov, Yeoman Janice Rand, and a few others...)
Title: Re: Star Trek XI writers: Film a re-imagining, not prequel
Post by: Governor Ronjar on March 12, 2007, 05:42:51 pm: Ah!

Support and bashing aimed at a movie that has yet to name a single actor as being in the film, not had a single line writen on an official script or even had a set built yet.

Gotta love Trekkies.

--thu guv!
Title: Re: Star Trek XI writers: Film a re-imagining, not prequel
Post by: Lieutenant_Q on March 20, 2007, 11:25:19 am: Quote from: Governor Ronjar on March 12, 2007, 05:42:51 pm
Ah!

Support and bashing aimed at a movie that has yet to name a single actor as being in the film, not had a single line writen on an official script or even had a set built yet.

Gotta love Trekkies.

--thu guv!

Yep, actually its not the Trekkie in me that's nervous though. The exact same words were spoken by Ronald Moore when he began work on the BattleStar Galactica Remake. A Remake that has pissed off die hard Galacticans everywhere.
Title: Re: Star Trek XI writers: Film a re-imagining, not prequel
Post by: TheJudge on March 20, 2007, 12:18:27 pm: Quote from: Lieutenant_Q on March 20, 2007, 11:25:19 am
Quote from: Governor Ronjar on March 12, 2007, 05:42:51 pm
Ah!

Support and bashing aimed at a movie that has yet to name a single actor as being in the film, not had a single line writen on an official script or even had a set built yet.

Gotta love Trekkies.

--thu guv!

Yep, actually its not the Trekkie in me that's nervous though. The exact same words were spoken by Ronald Moore when he began work on the BattleStar Galactica Remake. A Remake that has pissed off die hard Galacticans everywhere.

See, now I'd be more enthused if it was Ron Moore doing this reimagining...this die-hard BSG fan from the 1970's just loves the new BSG, and loves watching all the die-hards who squeeze their eyes shut, hold their hands over their ears and scream No NO NO NO NO NO NO! I'm not sure which is more entertaining, the show or the unable to adapt fan geeks reaction to the new show...either one might make the new Star Trek a good experience...
Title: Re: Star Trek XI writers: Film a re-imagining, not prequel
Post by: Commander La'ra on March 20, 2007, 12:39:30 pm: Die-hard Galacticans might've screamed, but lots of people screamed about how awesome the new BSG is too. And honestly, it'd take a deeply biased person to watch the new series and still deny it's not worlds better than the original.
Title: Re: Star Trek XI writers: Film a re-imagining, not prequel
Post by: Lieutenant_Q on March 20, 2007, 12:57:35 pm: See, but here's the problem. I saw this coming when BSG first came out and when Enterprise was starting to sink. TOS will be reimagined, BSG's success all but gauranteed that. But it will be re-imagined by people who say they are fans, but they just didn't understand why they did this and that, despite this and that being a core part of the original. I spoke often with a lot of these hard core fans when the series came out, I was one of the people that actually liked the Mini-Series. Although the subsequent seasons turned me off from the program. The railed against it, some of them didn't even give it a chance. A few looked at it and said, "If it didn't say BattleStar Galactica on it, it would be a great program."

Now regarding TOS, that series has always been the red-headed step child as it was, despite being the original series, The subsequent series were related to it in name only. TNG, DS9, VOY and ENT are closer to each other than TOS is to any of them. So they will remake TOS in the image of Enterprise. It makes sense from a franchise perspective. How many of you are interested in seeing an Enterprised TOS?
Title: Re: Star Trek XI writers: Film a re-imagining, not prequel
Post by: Commander La'ra on March 20, 2007, 01:10:07 pm: Quote
Now regarding TOS, that series has always been the red-headed step child as it was, despite being the original series, The subsequent series were related to it in name only. TNG, DS9, VOY and ENT are closer to each other than TOS is to any of them. So they will remake TOS in the image of Enterprise. It makes sense from a franchise perspective. How many of you are interested in seeing an Enterprised TOS?

I actually thought Enterprise was a move back toward the spirit of TOS, though the execution seriously lacked until the fourth season (discounting the final episode). That said, you're correct in how the series are related to each other and agree that trying to make TOS seem like the others would not be an idea I'm that enthusiastic about.

But we don't KNOW they're going to do that, and there's some hope that that's not their plan...it's the post-TNG crop that's tanked at the box office and given us seven seasons of Voyager and messed up a great concept and wasted and excellent cast with the second and third seasons of Enterprise. If they're reimagining to get away from that precedent...there's hope. :)
Title: Re: Star Trek XI writers: Film a re-imagining, not prequel
Post by: Commander Maxillius on March 22, 2007, 11:14:01 am: I think it's a long time in coming. If they limit the "Enterprisiation" of TOS to tech and sets and keep the level of characterization and storylines at the same level, that alone would beat the crap out of BSG and the Stargate franchise.

EXACTLY how it should be ;D Now, if some of SG-1's writers were to come on board after the upgrade, then Trek would have a whole new fanbase, which is something IMHO I think Trek needs desperately.
Title: Re: Star Trek XI writers: Film a re-imagining, not prequel
Post by: TheJudge on March 23, 2007, 06:01:14 pm: Quote from: Commander Maxillius on March 22, 2007, 11:14:01 am
I think it's a long time in coming. If they limit the "Enterprisiation" of TOS to tech and sets and keep the level of characterization and storylines at the same level, that alone would beat the crap out of BSG and the Stargate franchise.

EXACTLY how it should be ;D Now, if some of SG-1's writers were to come on board after the upgrade, then Trek would have a whole new fanbase, which is something IMHO I think Trek needs desperately.

Four words: Ben Browder Casting Couch

My partner hates the idea, I say that he would be great for a main role in the script I wrote, which is being looked at by one of the production companies responsible for the show he did before SG-1...
Title: Re: Star Trek XI writers: Film a re-imagining, not prequel
Post by: Don Karnage on April 30, 2007, 10:40:29 am: i never like the new galactica

a new startrek serie would be great BUT not like the do with enterprise, another ship that enterprise would be interesting to see what the encounter, like the potemkin who battle the enterprise during the ultimate computer "M5"

IF any or ALL of us would wright the new startrek serie would make it super and stick Cannon (as much cannon it can be)

well we all can dream :-\
Title: Re: Star Trek XI writers: Film a re-imagining, not prequel
Post by: Kruk on May 03, 2007, 08:52:47 pm: They should do a TV series on ArticFires campaign and include are characters in it ;D
Title: Re: Star Trek XI writers: Film a re-imagining, not prequel
Post by: Capt_Bearslayer_XC on May 07, 2007, 05:40:58 pm: Quote from: Lieutenant_Q on March 08, 2007, 11:18:15 am
Sounds like the same crap that was spewed out before the BSG remake went live.

And we all saw what that got us...

Thanks guys... You let them ruin a borderline Sci-fi genre, now looks what it's gotten us into...

Yep, it got us the best damn scifi show on TV in over a generation....
Title: Re: Star Trek XI writers: Film a re-imagining, not prequel
Post by: Capt_Bearslayer_XC on May 07, 2007, 05:45:43 pm: Quote from: TheJudge on March 12, 2007, 05:29:48 pm
You mean like STII: The Wrath of Khan?

Since this is a 'reimagining' situation...

The Federation is engaged in a low-grade border skirmish with the Klingon Empire that occasionally flares up into armed conflict. Political forces in the Federation are split, with a major side (led by the Vulcans) pushing for peaceful negotiations and a second side (led by Tellarite and/or Andorians) pushing for Starfleet to abandon their scientific role and adopt a pure military role. Humans and some other major Federation races are equally split on the issue...

Act One:

Commander James T. Kirk commanding a border patrol picket ship picks up a distress call from a freighter that was attacked and is now powerless, drifting into the neutral zone. Kirk investigates and decides it is a trap, which he knowingly springs. When the Klingons attack from their hiding place, he smashes them into nearby asteroids using a clever tractor beam manuever, and saves the freighter.

Meanwhile on-board the USS Enterprise, NCC-1701 currently in orbit over Earth, Commander Spock, the ship's first officer, is walking with Captain Pike, discussing the possibility of Pike's appointment to the Admiralty. Pike's position as an advocate of not abandoning Starfleet's Research and Exploration role is well known and we get a sense of the conflict within the Federation. Spock of course supports his Captain's position and encourages him to take the Admiralty position, but Pike wonders who will replace him as Captain of the Enterprise.

As the two pass through Engineering, a coolant line explodes, injuring several crewmembers. Pike orders Spock to assist several injured crewmembers while he shuts down the coolant system. Spock goes back in to save him after saving the other crew members, but Pike is severely injured, his career in Starfleet over.

Commander James T. Kirk is recalled to Earth, where he receives a medal for his valor and bravery. He is called in to speak to a human Admiral that is a key figure in the side advocating a militant starfleet. James Kirk seems supportive of the hints dropped by the Admiral, agreeing that the Federation must be protected from those who would destroy it. The Admiral seems pleased, and announces that after Captain Pike's serious injury, the Federation's finest ship needs a new captain, and James T. Kirk will be that Captain. Kirk is happy, and goes to celebrate with his best friend, Dr. Leonard H. McCoy. During dinner, he talks McCoy into reactivating his Starfleet comission, which upsets McCoy's wife. She threatens to leave him if he goes back into Starfleet. McCoy is torn and calls Jim back to tell him he can't go...

Hmmm, you know, maybe I should just write this script...what do y'all think?

Oh, and the end of the movie...

These are the voyages of the Starship Enterprise. Her five year mission, to seek out new worlds and new civilizations. To boldly go where no one has gone before....(Tells you which side wins the debate in the movie...but now how...Oh, and McCoy/Spock will carry out the argument of both sides in the debate throughout the movie, with Kirk in the middle as different crisis erupts. A subplot will be the investigation by Spock into the accident, during which we meet Assistant Chief Engineer Montgomery Scott, New Helsman Lieutenant Hikaru Sulu, Assistant Communications Officer, Ensign Uhura, Senior Cadet Pavel Chekhov, Yeoman Janice Rand, and a few others...)

I like where you are going with that... keep it up.

That reminds me... did anything ever get done with your other project from a few years back?

Oh, and if I make an appearance in this one, make me an Andorian please! ;)

OTOH, I wouldn't mind seeing the people who did "Galaxy Quest" behind a new Trek series.

You can tell from that movie alone that they have a better grasp on Trek than B&B ever did....
Title: Re: Star Trek XI writers: Film a re-imagining, not prequel
Post by: Lieutenant_Q on May 10, 2007, 10:49:50 am: Quote from: Capt_Bearslayer_XC on May 07, 2007, 05:40:58 pm
Quote from: Lieutenant_Q on March 08, 2007, 11:18:15 am
Sounds like the same crap that was spewed out before the BSG remake went live.

And we all saw what that got us...

Thanks guys... You let them ruin a borderline Sci-fi genre, now looks what it's gotten us into...

Yep, it got us the best damn scifi show on TV in over a generation....

Perhaps, but does this "best damn scifi show" bear any resemblance to the original BattleStar Galactica? Regardless of what you thought of that show, think about this for a moment. Would you be happy with Trek XI bearing no resemblance to TOS?
Title: Re: Star Trek XI writers: Film a re-imagining, not prequel
Post by: Commander La'ra on May 10, 2007, 11:09:28 am: Quote
Perhaps, but does this "best damn scifi show" bear any resemblance to the original BattleStar Galactica?

Yes, though only in concept.

Quote
Regardless of what you thought of that show, think about this for a moment. Would you be happy with Trek XI bearing no resemblance to TOS?

It's easy to answer 'no!' to this question. Most fans would. Yet...if it was good enough, and kept the same spirit as the original series (something even TNG had only a tenuous grip on), then anyone willing to judge it objectively might answer in the affirmative.
Title: Re: Star Trek XI writers: Film a re-imagining, not prequel
Post by: Capt_Bearslayer_XC on May 10, 2007, 03:35:32 pm: Quote from: Lieutenant_Q on May 10, 2007, 10:49:50 am
Quote from: Capt_Bearslayer_XC on May 07, 2007, 05:40:58 pm
Quote from: Lieutenant_Q on March 08, 2007, 11:18:15 am
Sounds like the same crap that was spewed out before the BSG remake went live.

And we all saw what that got us...

Thanks guys... You let them ruin a borderline Sci-fi genre, now looks what it's gotten us into...

Yep, it got us the best damn scifi show on TV in over a generation....

Perhaps, but does this "best damn scifi show" bear any resemblance to the original BattleStar Galactica? Regardless of what you thought of that show, think about this for a moment. Would you be happy with Trek XI bearing no resemblance to TOS?

If the quality that exists in the new BSG were applied to a new Star Trek, yes.

I would be more than pleased, I would probably be estatic over it....

And yes, the new BSG is still the sole surviving battlestar leading the last remenants of the 12 colonies to earth.

It is fairly dark in nature, but shouldn't it be?

My favorite part of season II was the survivor count during each episode's begining credits... less than 50K....
Title: Re: Star Trek XI writers: Film a re-imagining, not prequel
Post by: Commander Maxillius on May 10, 2007, 06:05:03 pm: Quote from: Kruk on May 03, 2007, 08:52:47 pm
They should do a TV series on ArticFires campaign and include are characters in it ;D

Attack of the Kitties I would be hilarious
Title: Re: Star Trek XI writers: Film a re-imagining, not prequel
Post by: Soreyes on May 11, 2007, 06:10:44 am: Quote from: Commander Maxillius on May 10, 2007, 06:05:03 pm
Quote from: Kruk on May 03, 2007, 08:52:47 pm
They should do a TV series on ArticFires campaign and include are characters in it ;D

Attack of the Kitties I would be hilarious

:rofl: That could be the closest thing to a "Red Dwarf" series ;)
Title: Re: Star Trek XI writers: Film a re-imagining, not prequel
Post by: Commander Maxillius on May 12, 2007, 08:46:38 pm: Quote from: Soreyes on May 11, 2007, 06:10:44 am
Quote from: Commander Maxillius on May 10, 2007, 06:05:03 pm
Quote from: Kruk on May 03, 2007, 08:52:47 pm
They should do a TV series on ArticFires campaign and include are characters in it ;D

Attack of the Kitties I would be hilarious

:rofl: That could be the closest thing to a "Red Dwarf" series ;)

OOO! A fusion of Attack of the Kitties and Sockfoot's Big Adventure!!
Title: Re: Star Trek XI writers: Film a re-imagining, not prequel
Post by: Hyperion on June 30, 2007, 01:16:11 am: Quote from: Rat Boy NCC-75647 on March 08, 2007, 10:51:47 am
From Trek Web ([url]http://trekweb.com/articles/2007/03/08/Roberto-Orci-and-Alex-Kurtzman-Reveal.shtml[/url])

Well, there goes about half my enthusiasm.

When people start 're-imagining' thigs they tend to suck big time.

Star Trek already has a crappy film history lately and now they want to play around with it again, I guess they learnt nothing from the Berman years
Title: Re: Star Trek XI writers: Film a re-imagining, not prequel
Post by: Commander La'ra on July 02, 2007, 06:10:56 pm: Casino Royale, Batman Begins, and Battlestar Galactica were all superior to the films that came before them despite being 'sucky reimagining'. If they can do it, why can't Trek?
Title: Re: Star Trek XI writers: Film a re-imagining, not prequel
Post by: Clark Kent on July 02, 2007, 07:00:33 pm: Quote from: Commander La'ra on July 02, 2007, 06:10:56 pm
Casino Royale, Batman Begins, and Battlestar Galactica were all superior to the films that came before them despite being 'sucky reimagining'. If they can do it, why can't Trek?

They can, it's just that the level of suckage for trek has been rising so high for so long it seems unlikely that it will be washed away with this series reset. Besides, casino royale was a prequel, from what I've read, BB comes from comic books where reimagining is common place and canon has multiple versions, and BSG, well, it just sucked donkey dung from the beginning. Sorry, awesome concept, terrible plots and character development.
For forty some odd years trek has followed the same storyline fairly faithfully and catored to a relatively small niche audience. Do you think that paramount will give a flying fat one about that fringe, near cult (in their view) audienceduring a reimagining? They've shown no indication that they have for years now, somehow I expect this to be a move to reinvent the wheel , gain real ratings with mindless sheople tripe and cut loose the Trekkies once and for all, unless of course they want to be mainstream.
Title: Re: Star Trek XI writers: Film a re-imagining, not prequel
Post by: Commander La'ra on July 11, 2007, 03:29:23 pm: Casino Royale was, in fact, a reboot. They made that pretty clear.

And I understand what you're saying about how Paramount has treated Trek. However, I think that the reboot idea could be a very good one...get some new blood involved and start all over and see if it takes us someplace we like. Sometimes we can learn from comic books, ya' know?
Title: Re: Star Trek XI writers: Film a re-imagining, not prequel
Post by: Lieutenant_Q on July 12, 2007, 02:03:32 pm: Batman Begins is a reboot as well. And the series needed it. They figured out too late that the best part of Batman was that the Villians survived to harass Gotham another day.

The James Bond concept just doesn't fit well with the times anymore. It was best when it was Bond versus the Soviet Union. Rather than Bond vs. some rich crackpot.

As for BattleStar Galactica. The Miniseries was nice, the series just couldn't maintain my interest.
Title: Re: Star Trek XI writers: Film a re-imagining, not prequel
Post by: Ravok on July 12, 2007, 02:29:47 pm: Quote from: Lieutenant_Q on May 10, 2007, 10:49:50 am
Quote from: Capt_Bearslayer_XC on May 07, 2007, 05:40:58 pm
Quote from: Lieutenant_Q on March 08, 2007, 11:18:15 am
Sounds like the same crap that was spewed out before the BSG remake went live.

And we all saw what that got us...

Thanks guys... You let them ruin a borderline Sci-fi genre, now looks what it's gotten us into...

Yep, it got us the best damn scifi show on TV in over a generation....

Perhaps, but does this "best damn scifi show" bear any resemblance to the original BattleStar Galactica? Regardless of what you thought of that show, think about this for a moment. Would you be happy with Trek XI bearing no resemblance to TOS?

The original BSG was a corny ,hokey,cheesy pile of slop. Bad storeys,with one dimensional shallow "Hero's" Or grotesque caricatures of what a hero should be.

Why anybody over the age of 13 would like it was beyond me. ::) And what the heck does it have anything to do a t all with Star Trek other than both are in space????
Title: Re: Star Trek XI writers: Film a re-imagining, not prequel
Post by: Hexx on July 12, 2007, 02:50:27 pm: Like it or not it needs a reimaging.. face it- the OS did do some ground breaking stuff at the time

But it needs new (and more) fans.
And likely the best way to do that is something a little edgier
I mean, from my point of view- I can go back and watch some of the originals 9although some are just too painful)
I can't really watch many TNG episodes - the plots just seem atrocius, same with Vogaeur (although I'm one that never really watched that)
DS9- imo- has some of the best episodes that actually tend to deal with stuff- like the Federation not being absolutely perfect- and some people liked that, some fanbois hated it.
Enterprise was (kinda) doomed from the start- trying to retcon a series into Trek wouldn't bea easy at the best of times. And given wild and kinda oddly chosen story arcs to begin with didn't help.

All the other series mentioned may not appeal to anyone, but I'd have a hard time believing anyone who said that the original Batman/BSG/Bond whatver stories were consistently better before the reissue.
Ironically- perhaps the further they get away from some of Gene's viewpoints, the better the series would be.
Title: Re: Star Trek XI writers: Film a re-imagining, not prequel
Post by: Vipre on July 12, 2007, 03:43:40 pm: Quote from: Hexx on July 12, 2007, 02:50:27 pm
...perhaps the further they get away from some of Gene's viewpoints, the better the series would be.

I always thought his viewpoints where the moral of the stories and not the stories themselves?

Episodes dealing with racism, equality, war, tyranny, oppression, compassion, love lost, revenge, the "What if" alternate history episodes and of course your "what does it mean to be human" or "wdimtb Alive" ones.

One of the most famous is a retelling of Moby Dick after all.
Title: Re: Star Trek XI writers: Film a re-imagining, not prequel
Post by: Hexx on July 12, 2007, 03:58:25 pm: Hmm-actually phrased that poorly.
Not his vision, but maybe what his vision seemed to morph into

A number of the shows (imo) fealt with some problems humans had (in hte past) and explained how "humans" got around htem and worked stuff out.
I found that from TNG on though- it seemed to be every alien species encountered was amazed at just how cool humanity was.
Always seemed whatver any of them did, humans could do it better.

ANd- again imo- some of hte nest stories were from the DS9 series, especially the ones with the Maquis, or Section 31, or how the Roms were persudaed to join the Dominion War.. from what I understand (and I may be wrong) this was very much against his vision, that the Federation was pretty much entirely perfect, and that it would prevail through that alone.
Title: Re: Star Trek XI writers: Film a re-imagining, not prequel
Post by: Vipre on July 12, 2007, 04:26:14 pm: I see what you're saying. When it became more about making money off the franchise and ratings position it lost something. The Dominion war only started to compete with Babylon 5's Shadow war or so I heard.
Title: Re: Star Trek XI writers: Film a re-imagining, not prequel
Post by: Nemesis on July 12, 2007, 08:41:37 pm: Quote from: Ravok on July 12, 2007, 02:29:47 pm
Why anybody over the age of 13 would like it was beyond me. ::)

Sheba.
Title: Re: Star Trek XI writers: Film a re-imagining, not prequel
Post by: Bad Cyborg on July 23, 2007, 06:29:23 am: Quote from: IKV Nemesis on July 12, 2007, 08:41:37 pm
Sheba.

Right. Ms. Lockhart is adequate for her time. But this is 2007. So let's recap. Old BSG has this.

(http://www.annelockhart.com/site/photos/anne-bsg-c0.jpg)

And new BSG has this.

(http://i81.photobucket.com/albums/j224/hyperdx2/grace_park.jpg)

I'd say that is a vast improvement, wouldn't you?

And yeah, I'm all for a total overhaul of the creaky old Trek franchise.
Title: Re: Star Trek XI writers: Film a re-imagining, not prequel
Post by: Vipre on July 23, 2007, 10:36:02 am: Brilliant pic comparison, it's a bit ironic how accurately it reflects remakes vs originals.

Remakes over originals
Ass over class
Title: Re: Star Trek XI writers: Film a re-imagining, not prequel
Post by: Nemesis on July 23, 2007, 06:53:37 pm: Quote from: Bad Cyborg on July 23, 2007, 06:29:23 am
([url]http://www.annelockhart.com/site/photos/anne-bsg-c0.jpg[/url])

I'd say that is a vast improvement, wouldn't you?

I'll stick with Sheba. Remember her role. Fighter pilot and commander of a fighter squadron. Showing skin isn't part of the role.
Title: Re: Star Trek XI writers: Film a re-imagining, not prequel
Post by: Commander Maxillius on July 24, 2007, 10:40:41 am: I'm all for a re-imagining, but I don't think Trek was ever in need of a new excuse to show skin. In fact, the original was more lenient with girlflesh than any of the other series. Just look as the female duty uniform!! Even the Romulans got in on it!! If they'd stuck 7 of 9 in an original series micro mini instead of that metal mesh jump suit, she would've drawn the entire Federation out to meet Voyager by that alone.

If they can pull that movie off and get a series going with a lot of the same actors, Trek will be saved.
Title: Re: Star Trek XI writers: Film a re-imagining, not prequel
Post by: Commander La'ra on July 24, 2007, 05:16:18 pm: Quote from: IKV Nemesis on July 23, 2007, 06:53:37 pm
I'll stick with Sheba. Remember her role. Fighter pilot and commander of a fighter squadron. Showing skin isn't part of the role.

But this is the 21st century. So now they can be strong role models and still show us the goodies rather than show up in frumpy brown every damned episode.

*nods*

A random thought, though: What is the Trek reimagining IS really good? Will we see the same thing we did with BSG, with lots of old converts and new fans praising it, with a small but vocal minority claiming the original's greatness and the new show/movies awful state despite it's superiority?

Seems so silly with BSG. Anyone who watches the new show objectively knows it's better than the cheesy crap from the 70's, yet people nevertheless try and defend the original. They can't really, and end up throwing off bitter one-liners. Will the new ST leave those with a refusal to adapt in the dust?
Title: Re: Star Trek XI writers: Film a re-imagining, not prequel
Post by: Vipre on July 24, 2007, 08:20:34 pm: Something to remember as well is that this is most likely going to be a one shot deal. All of the previous movies began with the series and hit the big screen using the tv cast, this one is going straight to theaters with an A-list cast. No way they'll be able to spin off a series with that lineup if they do have Matt Damon, Adrien Brody and Gary Sinise in line for it.

Being a modern movie it'll probably be 95% special effects/action scenes and 5% story to boot, think "Transformers" with starships. It may end up being a great stand alone movie but I really don't think it's going to shelve or make TOS obsolete.

I wonder sometimes what the view on the original BSG would be if it were to receive an "enhancement" similar to the one TOS Trek has, as one up the biggest issues with the series even back then was a low special effects budget.
Title: Re: Star Trek XI writers: Film a re-imagining, not prequel
Post by: Nemesis on July 24, 2007, 08:24:28 pm: Quote from: Commander Maxillius on July 24, 2007, 10:40:41 am
I'm all for a re-imagining, but I don't think Trek was ever in need of a new excuse to show skin. In fact, the original was more lenient with girlflesh than any of the other series.

I guess you haven't seen the unedited T'Pol "nude" scene yet. It showed more than any other trek.

Quote from: Commander Maxillius on July 24, 2007, 10:40:41 am
Just look as the female duty uniform!! Even the Romulans got in on it!! If they'd stuck 7 of 9 in an original series micro mini instead of that metal mesh jump suit, she would've drawn the entire Federation out to meet Voyager by that alone.

If they can pull that movie off and get a series going with a lot of the same actors, Trek will be saved.

That uniform was of course insisted on by the actresses themselves. The uniform was supposed to be the same for both sexes as it was in the pilot.
Title: Re: Star Trek XI writers: Film a re-imagining, not prequel
Post by: FPF-Tobin Dax on July 25, 2007, 03:43:53 pm: Quote from: IKV Nemesis on July 12, 2007, 08:41:37 pm
Quote from: Ravok on July 12, 2007, 02:29:47 pm
Why anybody over the age of 13 would like it was beyond me. ::)

Sheba.

Athena, Cassy.
Title: Re: Star Trek XI writers: Film a re-imagining, not prequel
Post by: S'Raek on July 27, 2007, 08:33:22 am: http://www.cnn.com/2007/SHOWBIZ/Movies/07/27/people.leonardnimoy.ap/index.html

Sylar as Spock. I think my brain is going to explode.
Title: Re: Star Trek XI writers: Film a re-imagining, not prequel
Post by: Don Karnage on July 27, 2007, 08:48:52 pm: also here: http://ca.news.yahoo.com/s/reuters/entertainment_startrek_col

a 11th movie is too much.

when they change the basic of it and you have a recipe for disaster.
Title: Re: Star Trek XI writers: Film a re-imagining, not prequel
Post by: Sirgod on August 05, 2007, 12:00:32 pm: Did you hear? In order to attract the 20 something crowd, the next Star Trek movie is going to be rife with nudity and violence.
I heard it was so bad it was going to be rated NCC-1701.

Stephen
Title: Re: Star Trek XI writers: Film a re-imagining, not prequel
Post by: Nemesis on August 05, 2007, 04:53:27 pm: :smackhead:

Don't give up your day job cowboy.
Title: "Trek" Timeline & Uhura Gossip
Post by: Malystryx_XC on September 04, 2007, 08:16:03 pm: Uh oh... this has the potential to piss off a lot of people. :( I'm still not sure if this is going to be a good step for the franchise. I love the fact they are going back to the roots but using an alternate timeline to do it?? If I didn't know better I'd say it seems like some sort of sick joke from the minds of Berman & Braga.

http://www.darkhorizons.com/news07/070831c.php

An interesting and apparently solid rumor about the upcoming J.J. Abrams-produced "Star Trek" feature at Ain't it Cool explains not only the potential plan to reboot the franchise and why there is no Captain Kirk casting rumor as yet.

The theory has it that a group of Romulans are thrown back into the past and plan to kill James T. Kirk's father, and as a result Spock must somehow stop this event from happening. In the process Trek continuity proceeds along an alternate timeline, essentially rebooting the entire franchise.

Meanwhile TrekMovie.com reports that 29-year-old actress Zoë Saldana ("Haven," "Pirates of the Caribbean: The Curse of the Black Pearl") has been offered the part of Uhura - the USS Enterprise’s communications officer originally played by Nichelle Nichols.

One outstanding issue may be related to her schedule starring in the James Cameron sci-fi mega movie "Avatar" which is still in production and doing location shooting starting in October - a month before "Star Trek" is slated to start shooting in November.
Title: Re: "Trek" Timeline & Uhura Gossip
Post by: Commander Maxillius on September 08, 2007, 03:20:58 pm: Quote from: Malystryx_XC on September 04, 2007, 08:16:03 pm
Uh oh... this has the potential to piss off a lot of people. :( I'm still not sure if this is going to be a good step for the franchise. I love the fact they are going back to the roots but using an alternate timeline to do it?? If I didn't know better I'd say it seems like some sort of sick joke from the minds of Berman & Braga.

[url]http://www.darkhorizons.com/news07/070831c.php[/url]

An interesting and apparently solid rumor about the upcoming J.J. Abrams-produced "Star Trek" feature at Ain't it Cool explains not only the potential plan to reboot the franchise and why there is no Captain Kirk casting rumor as yet.

The theory has it that a group of Romulans are thrown back into the past and plan to kill James T. Kirk's father, and as a result Spock must somehow stop this event from happening. In the process Trek continuity proceeds along an alternate timeline, essentially rebooting the entire franchise.

Meanwhile TrekMovie.com reports that 29-year-old actress Zoë Saldana ("Haven," "Pirates of the Caribbean: The Curse of the Black Pearl") has been offered the part of Uhura - the USS Enterprise’s communications officer originally played by Nichelle Nichols.

One outstanding issue may be related to her schedule starring in the James Cameron sci-fi mega movie "Avatar" which is still in production and doing location shooting starting in October - a month before "Star Trek" is slated to start shooting in November.

They could use that excuse to include SFB history into canon ver. 2.0. Odds: 1:1000000000000000000, but it's a thought ;D
Title: Re: Star Trek XI writers: Film a re-imagining, not prequel
Post by: Centurus on September 08, 2007, 03:28:28 pm: Quote from: Stephen NCC -73070 on August 05, 2007, 12:00:32 pm
Did you hear? In order to attract the 20 something crowd, the next Star Trek movie is going to be rife with nudity and violence.
I heard it was so bad it was going to be rated NCC-1701.

Stephen

*looks at the rimshot guy and hears him say the joke is so bad even he doesn't want any part of it*
Title: Re: Star Trek XI writers: Film a re-imagining, not prequel
Post by: Centurus on September 08, 2007, 03:31:56 pm: Personally, I'd rather have the film be a prequel rather than a re-imagining, if this is the course of action they're gonna take with the storyline. I agree with Malystryx, this sounds like something B&B would think of. And here I thought with those two gone, the franchise would have a chance to get back on its feet. It's very wrong for me to be wishing they'd come back with a Trek story for the 11th movie.
Title: Re: Star Trek XI writers: Film a re-imagining, not prequel
Post by: Vipre on September 08, 2007, 04:59:08 pm: You can almost see where the whole thing is leading. They'll release a movie that derails so badly what makes Star Trek "Trek", that the only bright spot will be getting to see Nimoy as Spock one more time. It'll be a flop at the box office and the makers will blame it on the fans lack of interest in the franchise. Because as we all know, no matter how badly conceived, produced or enacted by the studio if a franchise movie flops it the fans fault. ::)
Title: Re: Star Trek XI writers: Film a re-imagining, not prequel
Post by: Ravok on September 08, 2007, 08:31:51 pm: I honestly think the problem is that our real life tec is progressing faster than anticipating in ST. we allready have data storage disc's smaller than they used, communicators ( cell phones) etc.

Plus our knowledge of space in the 60s was rudimentary at best. Not to mention the original show had a shoe string budjet.
They got away with allot that would not fly today.
The re imagining might just be a way to fit it all in seamlessly.

Just a thought! :)
Title: Re: Star Trek XI writers: Film a re-imagining, not prequel
Post by: Dash Jones on September 09, 2007, 12:21:51 am: I think it sounds interesting. If utilized in the right way, it could ressurect the Original series and TNG series with new actors. Let's face it, Shatner and Nimoy aren't getting any younger, and there wouldn't be no more Scotty nor Bones with the originals. To continue the series, or remake it, they need someone to actually play the roles.

I think it could be very good, or very bad. I'll have to see it and then decide.
Title: Re: Star Trek XI writers: Film a re-imagining, not prequel
Post by: Vipre on September 09, 2007, 01:22:11 am: Agreed and agreed. One issue with the tech is that Trek itself influenced technological advancement. A generation of fans looked at the devices and wondered if they could make a real one. Three prime examples being communicators, hyposprays and P.A.D.D.'s

TOS influence can be seen in flip top cell phones and hyposprays, TNGs can be seen in communicators that look and work in similar way as the series ones and the I-phone which from advertisements looks and works just like the padd devices on the Ent D

If they can utilize in the right way it'd be great but they are probably way more interested in making a quick buck than adding anything of substance to what's been done. Everyone can say what they like about how poor the visual effects, costumes and sets were in TOS, but those things were never the point of the show and never should be the point of good science fiction. I mean c'mon Jules Verne shot men to the moon in a steam or might have been coal powered rocket made out of bricks, but you don't bash it as being stupid or unrealistic because what they were in isn't the point of the story. (correct me if I got that wrong, just a drawing I saw once attributed to that story)

TOS was a fluke that the network disliked and the fans loved and it's something that's hard to recreate. In the end when you look at some of the fan series done with new digital graphics based on TOS like "New Voyages", "Starship Farragut" and "Starship Exeter" you have to wonder why reboot anything at all. Why not just pour serious money into these series? Give me a TOS based series with Kurt Carley in the captain's chair and you'd have me tuned in every week.

Just my nickle worth of thoughts for today.
Title: Re: Star Trek XI writers: Film a re-imagining, not prequel
Post by: Dash Jones on September 09, 2007, 01:14:54 pm: The things that made Star Trek TOS so good wasn't the effects, it was the science fiction. It was pure science fiction where it took the ideas of man vs. man, man vs. nature, or man vs. himself and put into a futuristic context where it examined these scenarios of philosophy and introspection in a story format.

TNG followed that, but not quite as much. It was enough to keep it interesting.

DS9, tried to do that, and it did, but had a lot more emphasis on action...and that's where trek started falling apart.

Voyager had an even greater emphasis on special effects and the action of the week with technobabble instead of the story and philosphy portions...and it showed.

Enterprise...they missed the boat. They concentrated on effects and story, but forgot the introspection and philosophical debate of it all most of the time...as well as just plain making a mess of things (such as the Akiraprise). They started to come back with some interesting episodes during the fourth season but it was too late at that point to save it.

I think you're right, the core of Star Trek isn't special effects or the action, it's the philosophical debate in the stories and the science fiction plots (NOT science fiction/fantasy/opera) that are involved. If they remember that it should do okay...if it concentrates on special effects and action...well....