Dynaverse.net
Taldrenites => Starfleet Command Models => Topic started by: Dizzy on January 29, 2006, 11:14:15 am
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The Star Union is a concept model I've been working on for quite some time. Most other modelers Fed DN's do not accurately represent the SFC/SFB DN for which it is used in the game and this will be the focus of this model.
The weapon loadout for a DNH is:
6x Photons
6x Missle Rack/ADD G's
14x Phaser 1's
3x Phaser 3's
There is this cookie cutter trend that every Fed DN more or less has followed in having the same basic shape and look with a few things different here and there. So in making this one, my goal was to accurately represent the weapon loadout as above and depart somewhat from the old style of what we have all seen in the past.
99% done. Major Racal and atheorhaven have helped tremendously with the kitbash. Most parts and textures are courtesy of WZ and P81. I have to thank WZ for helping me in not helping me. The pain and suffering transform you into quite the modeler.
So here are some WIP pics.
(http://www.dynaverse.net/downloads/Images/models/DNH_Persp1.jpg)
(http://www.dynaverse.net/downloads/Images/models/DNH_Persp2.jpg)
(http://www.dynaverse.net/downloads/Images/models/DNH_Persp3.jpg)
(http://www.dynaverse.net/downloads/Images/models/DNH_Persp4.jpg)
(http://www.dynaverse.net/downloads/Images/models/DNH_Persp5.jpg)
(http://www.dynaverse.net/downloads/Images/models/DNH_Side.jpg)
(http://www.dynaverse.net/downloads/Images/models/DNH_Top.jpg)
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Wow. It's beautiful!...
... and you did it all by yourself!
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Like I said above, if not for Major Racal and atheorhaven, this baby wouldn't have gotten out of drydock. Major Racal is putting some serious spit shine on the mesh. He's up to something with the torpedo bay. Have to wait and see what he does with it.
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Star Union class, huh? That's a nice name for something that's basically the U.S.S. Star Empire redux. (Reference Pocketbooks Star Trek novel Dreadnought.)
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Star Union class, huh? That's a nice name for something that's basically the U.S.S. Star Empire redux. (Reference Pocketbooks Star Trek novel Dreadnought.)
I'll be providing blanks so peeps like yourself can name it whatever you want. A ships gotta have a name and you cant please everyone.
Besides, as far as the accuracy of the ST books, we know decidedly they are not all canon... and discrepancies run amok. You say redux as in postpositively? Then you have it backwards. The Star Union came first. ;)
The official FJTM list of dreadnoughts is:
2100 Federation
2101 Star League
2102 Unificatum
2103 Compact
2104 Corporation
(this space left blank intentionally ;) )
2106 Konkordium
2107 Star System
2108 Affiliation
2109 Concordat
2110 Directorate
2111 Organization
2112 Star Union
2113 Alliance
2114 Confederation
2115 Dominion
2116 Star Empire
2117 Trusteeship
2118 Association
2119 Consortium
2120 Entente
Anything past 2120 is something made up by SFB or someone else, not that there's anything wrong with that. ;)
Oddly enough, ol' Franz seems to have completely missed 2105. ???
These names seem to come from political organizations within the Federation. For example, in Franz' world, the official name for the Vulcan government is "Planetary Confederation of 40 Eridani." Star Empire is named after the "Star Empire of Epsilon Indii," and Konkordium is named after the "Alpha Centauri Concordium of Planets" (Alpha Centauri seems to use some sort of Greek-inspired lettering system where the letter "K" is used in place of "C"). The only other two governments he mentions specifically are the "United Nations of Earth" and the "United Planets of 61 Cygni;" perhaps one of these was meant to become the namesake of NCC-2105?
By the time the DNH comes out it (maybe it's 2277?), there are enough registries to accomodate all the other previous DN's built up to that date. DN, DN+, DNL, DNV, DNG, etc., so the 2112 seems to fit.
Edit: btw, it would seem that either the DNG or the DNH, which is basically an upgrade of the DNG unless I'm mistaken, would incorporate TMP era look to them because of the time they are built coincides with the same time the other TMP era CA's are built. Up to the DNG/H, they are all TOS look.
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I've never been a fan of the "V" neck, or just slapping multiple impulse drives assemblies onto a ship, but other than that I have to say it's pretty spiffy. :) Regarding the impulse drive, maybe a "triple" exhaust configuration, where you still have the two "deflection crystals" and the two outboard exhausts, but merge the two inboard exhausts into one wider unit?
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:o
Beautiful work, really beautiful work!
Semper Fi, Carry On
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I have to say, I am impressed. Very nice work. I agree with the V-neck, for this particular concept, perhaps a V-neck isn't the best choice, but hell, the rest of the ships is a work of art. I also agree about the impulse assembly. Having two assemblies bashed into the hull isn't a good look. If you want something that's unique, or something more stylish, perhaps try using a modified, or completely different impulse system. I don't know exactly what could be used for the assembly, but I do know that two different impulse assemblies isn't a good choice.
But damn, overall, I am impressed. This is the best TMP ship I've seen in a while.
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My only pet peeve would be the impulse engines being simply slapped on there. Something unique could work though... Other than that, I really like the design, it looks more like an upgrade/variant of the Ulysses-class Dreadnought, following that design lineage rather than more of your standard "cookie cutter" Dreadnoughts that are simple kitbashes of the Constitution-class. I don't mind the V-neck though as opposed to some others, as it looks like it better supports the saucer, much like the case with the saucer section of the Ulysses-class. The only other alternative would be more of a slightly primitive/older-looking take at a thicker neck that resembles (but isn't as thick as) an Excelsior-class's neck, but again, I like the V-neck and would support sticking with it when the case comes.
Fantastic work Dizzy. But considering I only have SFC1 installed at the moment (I can install SFC: OP soon), I might not use it anytime soon, but I will get it, definately, for when I reinstall SFC: OP. Of course, assuming that this won't be available for SFC1.
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Thanks for the nice comments, guys.
Few things... It can be argued that for the purposes of getting the DNH commisioned asap, rather than develop and test a new impulse unit, 2x connies were used. Yeah, its cheap, but given the state of war and the need to have new warships available asap, it makes sense. However, since so many of you dislike it... even Major Racal told me he's not fond of the impulse units... I'm thinking she'd probably look better with an original impulse unit or one from another ship... So... I'll look into that.
I'll see what can happen to get it to work in sfc1.
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I luv the texture work, great job. Not keen on that 3rd nacelle at all. I think it takes something away from the ship. As for the impulse engine issue. With the fact you are using a V-neck design, I would suggest centering it on the rear of the saucer as usual, enlarge the unit then......rotate it 180 degress and attach it to the bottom of the saucer. Would make the design even more interesting, and if you keep the third nacelle, it doesn't interfere with the pylon mount.
Just a thought.
-MP
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One other point of view...
Doesn't "typical" TMP-Fed design have the impulse engine mounted top of saucer opposite the pylon? I recall reading somewhere the Imp. deflection crystal was there to channel the matter/anti-matter reaction into a format useful for Impulse drive, ie, the crystal is right at the top of the M/AM chamber.
Therefore, with the V-neck design, the impulses would "best fit" on the sides right over the supports... Maybe go with larger "interior" vents and smaller "exterior" vents due to the positioning...
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Therefore, with the V-neck design, the impulses would "best fit" on the sides right over the supports...
Purist! Dunno... gonna try taking the impulse engines off completely... and then take a look. Maybe where they should go will come naturally.
MP, afa the 3rd nacelle... I took a look at what would happen if that'd be removed... If the model was scaled down a tad... and some slight retexture work, it'd be the basis for the most kick ass looking battlecruiser ever... But thats not what it is.
There are planned 2x variants. A BB and a detached saucer version. Have to wait and see how they come.
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Just a bit more food for thought; an idea I just thought up of. If she's a pure warship, perhaps put a bit less emphasis on windows maybe? Perhaps six or seven windows on the V-neck (if there should be any) and a substantial less around the secondary/engineering hull and a few taken off the rim of the saucer? Wouldn't it be more fitting a warship with some less windows somewhere?
I'm fine with it either way though; either leaving the windows as is or decreasing the amount. I'd just like to throw out an idea to help out, that's all.
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WOW!!
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Ya, the less clutter the better. I can cut a few windows, but the supplier wont like it!
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MP, afa the 3rd nacelle... I took a look at what would happen if that'd be removed... If the model was scaled down a tad... and some slight retexture work, it'd be the basis for the most kick ass looking battlecruiser ever
Ooooooooo I wanna see that idea ;D
-MP
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Hey, if you're gonna make a dreadnought with a Franz Joseph registry, it had damn well better have three nacelles... :p
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WOW!!
I'm with you!! Wow!! :o
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Dizzy, your Star Union is a work of art. It flows on beautifully from the Franz Joseph Dreadnought but incorprates new design elements from the SFC Ulysses. I personally was not fond of the V neck, but you have made it far more palletable for me. This looks right, like the way it was supposed to be done.
I do agree about the impulse engines though, and I'm intrigued by the suggestion of inverting the deck to the underside of the saucer. However, as a purist myself, I have to disagree slightly with Koloth Kinshaya about the impulse deflection crystals being over the feeds from the M/AM reactor. The Deflection crystal does reformat warp power to Impulse, but it does so before it goes into the imoulse engines. As long as there is a conduit feeding power into the crystal, we could say that the conduits are routed through the V-neck and back into the impulse deck. However, with the third nacelle on the centreline, It would be best to have split impulse decks. I'd agree with a large central exhaust port and two smaller outboard ports.
Everything else about this design is beautiful, though. I really want to have this one. Maybe get rid of that ugly Yamato design and have the Ulysses as the battleship.
Keep up the good work! I'd love to be able to do that kind of work!
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A little update... It would probably have been ready for release by now, but Major Racal and I have decided to invest a little more time and give this ship the star treatment everyone else has shown her. So thanks for all the positive comments and feedback!
Currently, we are revising some textures and lightmaps, doing some very cool mesh work with the torpedo bay and phaser hardpoints and most importantly completely redesigning the impulse engines.
I'll keep you posted.
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I do agree about the impulse engines though, and I'm intrigued by the suggestion of inverting the deck to the underside of the saucer. However, as a purist myself, I have to disagree slightly with Koloth Kinshaya about the impulse deflection crystals being over the feeds from the M/AM reactor. The Deflection crystal does reformat warp power to Impulse, but it does so before it goes into the imoulse engines. As long as there is a conduit feeding power into the crystal, we could say that the conduits are routed through the V-neck and back into the impulse deck. However, with the third nacelle on the centreline, It would be best to have split impulse decks. I'd agree with a large central exhaust port and two smaller outboard ports.
Okay, working from memory here...
The reason it's called a "deflection crystal" in the first place is that it deflects the energy from the M/AM reaction into the impulse engines, where it's converted into actual impulse movement. I recall the same source citing that the impulse drive is surrounded by fusion reactors, which could be used as an alternate energy source for the crystal in the case of warp-core ejection / saucer separation. Matter / Anti Matter reactions are considered better for the impulse drives, due to the sheer energy being produced.
And, IIRC, one of those little diagrams on the movie bridge shown the reactor core stretching straight from the impuse deck, down the back of the connecting dorsal, and into the upper half of the secondary hull, leading to the pylons, where the core splits into 2 channels, one up each pylon to the respective nacelles.
Using that "science", the V-neck design requires 2 cores up the supports to the saucer, where they'd be re-channeled in the saucer's rear to meet at the centerline, where a conduit would run into the center warp. Dizzy's current design would "work" with that technology (they added taps in the crossmembers), though I'd prefer to see either a semi-TNG-ish arraingment (impulse decks above the pylons as beforfe), though upon further thought, a newer 3-vent deck, with the crystal half-buried under the support pylon, could work...
And Scottish Andy, I just changed my name for the current KCW server, I'm usually Julin Eurthyr (as attested to in the little blurb under the Koloth name...)
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The impulse drives cant quite go above the pylons... because of a surprise. ;D So we will settle for twisty tubular routing. Side note, when the warp core is brought offlinbe, the impulse drive functions seperately to provide movement. So how are they just one unit?
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Hey Dizzy I threw together a fast WIP using an old model to show ya what I meant in an earlier posting.
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I understood what you meant. Something like the Reliant class impulse. It has a dome underneath. Major Racal and I looked at that, but we are trying something much more fitting. ;) I'll keep ya posted.
Edit: U know, looking at that old Ulysses and the new Star Union... the design influence of the twin neck supports is there, buts its like night and day. The mesh and textures have come a long way.
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;D
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Julin! You did ISC stories for the Fan Fic Forum. Come on back and repost them, and put up anything new you may have come up with. We miss good authors back there. What've you been up to in the mean time?
Dizzy, this bit's for you:
Side note, when the warp core is brought offlinbe, the impulse drive functions seperately to provide movement. So how are they just one unit?
As far as I regard the info I've read abut this, the redesign of the Enterprise from TOS to TMP fed power from a reactor core at the base of the secondary hull up to the Impulse engines to provide power for sublight movement. Thus, the M/AM reactor powers all movement and ship functions.
The Impulse Engines are also surrounded by nuclear fusion reactors as Auxiliary Power, so that if Warp drive is offline (ie, the M/AM reactor is offline) the fusion reactors kick in to provide power for sublight movement and ship functions, but is obviously of a far lesser power rating than the M/AM reactor. Hence Spock's line from 'Star Trek II': "One thing is clear. We cannot escape on Auxiliary Power", after Reliiant takes out the Enterprise's Main Energiser and cuts off warp power to the ship.
Aside: the Main Energiser is what's supposed to convert raw M/AM power into useable electricity or transtator current for ship fucntions.
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That sounds about right, because if the warp engines were taken offline, there wouldnt be much in the way of power left in order to power the rest of the ship AND move at the same time.
When the enterprise made a B line to the neb, did she have her shields down? Cuz that torp the reliant fired was so close it shoulda got picked up by the shields mb.
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Yes, I'd say the shields were down. I always wondered at that scene, though. If they were able to put a photorp so close, why not just attack? Put one (or more) into the impulse engines, or smash up the warp nacelles? So many targets in range, and Khan doesn't consider it. *shrugs*
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prolly a range 55k proxy shot.
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Hey DIzzy, I had one more idea for ya............
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dizzy... any chance of that humongous bmp getting converted to a jpg....
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MP, interesting idea. That would give the secondary hull manuevering capability when the saucer seperates.
Tus, done.
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Dizzy;
I prefer the impulse staying on the primary hull. While your idea of a seperated saucer is nice, I don't necessarily agree with it. My impression of seperated saucers was that--up until 2357 with the Galaxy-class Starship and it's capabilities--that saucer seperation was a near-permanant sever from both hulls unless a nearby drydock or starbase grabs both hulls and reconnects the two together. I'd also had the impression that such a manuver might be for not necessarily combat (considering a ship like the E-nil through E-B has impulse engines on their saucer section) so much as for evacuation purposes, I.E. Star Trek: Generations when the Enterprise-D tried getting as far away as possible from the secondary hull when it exploded.
My suggestion is to go unique and maybe make a unique TMP-style impulse engine for the saucer, maybe take some alternate takes from Andrew Probert when he was designing those engines for the refit Enterprise in TMP. If you'd insist, perhaps place a plausable mount for a second one if you'd like... But in my opinion, for a ship like this Dreadnought, in her configuration (going by WIP pics), I'd think impulse engines on warp pylons might be a bit too much... Especially if you're going for more than two impulse engines. It'd make me think that perhaps the original impulse engine placement in the WIP pics would be better suited.
That doesn't mean I want you to comply with my suggestion; I'm just stating how I feel along with maybe throwing an idea or two as a suggestion you can take into consideration if you'd like. If you don't, that's alright. I'm not building her so, while I'd like to throw out an idea or two, I should have no say on what her final design should be and how she'd appear as a model, etc.
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I like Dizzy's three torpedo tubes...........
Nice job man!
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Umm, stop me if you've already thought about this, but there's that empty space between the neck joints from the top of the torpedo bay to the bottom of the saucer. Maybe somewhere half way in that empty space you could place a modified version of the impulse assembly. This way there isn't as much clutter on the saucer, you don't have to relocate the impulse engines to the pylons, and it doesn't change the way the ship looks much. I mean, just a thought.
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I like Dizzy's three torpedo tubes...........
Nice job man!
Ack! It's been totally redesigned. The torpedo bay isnt defined by a texture anymore. We have a mesh structure there now. Hope you like it!
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Dizzy;
I prefer the impulse staying on the primary hull. While your idea of a seperated saucer is nice, I don't necessarily agree with it.
I assume you are only referring to the fact that until TNG, TMP era ships needed a drydock to reconnect and the secondary hulls were despensible and thus didnt have impulse drives. Yes?
I do expect to release a saucer-section only model, but dont plan on sticking an impulse on the secondary hull or having a second model for that part.
Umm, stop me if you've already thought about this, but there's that empty space between the neck joints from the top of the torpedo bay to the bottom of the saucer.
Read above, but a reason not to have it there is the drone bays are right aft of there. It is planned to have those doors open on the final mesh with you being able to see inside the doors the drones and loading racks.
To end the speculation, there will be a brand new never before seen impulse drive assembly built specifically for this model. It is original from the ground up and when Major Racal presented it to me it BLEW ME AWAY! So I'm fairly sure you all will like it to. Soon I'll begin the texture work and provide some sneak peaks.
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That's cool Dizzy. I just gave my thought, and hope you didn't mind. I can't wait to see this new drive assembly. :-D
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I think Centaurus' idea of an Impulse engine assembly between the V neck pylons is inspired! That's a cracking idea. It's a shame to read that it won't be done, but wow. It's brilliant in it's simplicity. Kudos to Centaurus!
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Thanks. Who knows, someone might be inspired by Dizzy's and MajorRascal's efforts and make another variant off the Ulysses design and incorporate the impulse assembly between the neck.
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I forget what ship it was, but there is a fed boat with impulse engines on the warp pylons...
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well the first 3 pics u posted are bmps, a jpg would be much more economical and you wouldn't lose any quality...... i personally don't like waiting 2 mins for a picture to load ;)...
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I forget what ship it was, but there is a fed boat with impulse engines on the warp pylons...
I believe it's one of Mackies bashes.
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Hey Dizzy...a possible basis for a TNG version of your ship ?
(http://www.trekmania.net/art/cosmos01.jpg)
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Pretty good there, MP. I'd like to see what the neck would look like if it connected underneath the saucer. Above... dunno.
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Pretty good there, MP. I'd like to see what the neck would look like if it connected underneath the saucer. Above... dunno.
I'll see if I can bash something like that up for ya ;)
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Pretty good there, MP. I'd like to see what the neck would look like if it connected underneath the saucer. Above... dunno.
Better yet, wrapped around the sides of the saucer section........... Ooo Wee !! :o
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Pretty good there, MP. I'd like to see what the neck would look like if it connected underneath the saucer. Above... dunno.
Better yet, wrapped around the sides of the saucer section........... Ooo Wee !! :o
Okie I'll do 2 versions. I'm gonna use simple models for the bash. If you guys like 'em I'll go back and use great models to do a final version ;)
-MP
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Pretty good there, MP. I'd like to see what the neck would look like if it connected underneath the saucer. Above... dunno.
Better yet, wrapped around the sides of the saucer section........... Ooo Wee !! :o
Okie I'll do 2 versions. I'm gonna use simple models for the bash. If you guys like 'em I'll go back and use great models to do a final version ;)
-MP
:notworthy:
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Okie here's one.............
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I like it better with sovereign stye influence than TNG, but could you incorporate the impulse into the neck pylons where they meet the saucer, perhaps splay the neck pylons out some more as they go up higher.
U might have something here.
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Diz has Pneumonia so I've ordered him to bed to recover instead of fretting over this child of his - if anyone sees him lurking about remind him he needs to get well first!!
MajorRacal ;D
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You can't keep a good man down!
::collapses::
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*stands over Dizzy's collapsed body* I ain't giving him mouth-to-mouth, but I'll shock him. :-D
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Hey Diz, don't play with pneumonia.
Get your rest and get well.
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*Update* And no its not on the model. Im negative for strep. So its viral. RSV Pneumonia. Got two shots in the tail. Cant sit down right now, but Im feeling pretty good after the shots, tho. ;D Mb I wont die after all. I'll get back to modeling this puppy and finish er up then break the news for you, there's also a big surprise package.
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to quote Ma'Ab Ushura the usrper Tier of the Ten Tribes of Cappella. ...And I saw fear in the Klingon's eye.
to quote Gunnery Sergeant Leon McCruder of the Federation Marines(a fictional character in a story I'm putting together). ...Captain the Romulan just sh*t himself.
Definitely a Command Class Varient. Do you have skins with the other names and i think that the NCC-2105 registery belonged to a DN named Kingdom. I am probably wrong so get the wet noodles.
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Very very nice... did i say very..... ;D
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I like it Diz! A brute.
Great addition to the fleet.
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Just curious: Did dizzy ever finish the Star Union?
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I think they're still working on it. Wonder if any significant progress has been made since the last update.
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Torpedo bay has it's own seperate structure and textures. The drone bay has been moved and has opened doors where you can see the drones sitting in the racks ready to fire. The impulse drive is all new and looks mean and powerful. All phaser HP's have mesh bumps... lots of attention to detail. Yet to do... some clean up work, hardpointing, and break models. One variant mesh with only the saucer and w/o it are planned. Also a Battleship version is on the drawing board. Best BB design yet imo... I'll release pics soon enough.
Completion date: When MR returns from R/L work overtime we will get back on top of this project. Personally, I took some time off cuz of a death in the family, but warships wait for no one... ;)
Thanks for all the interest so far. It's one of the few things that keep models coming.
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Dizzy,
My sincerest apologies about the death in your family. I've been there many times, and it sucks everytime. Hope everyone is coping well.
As for this starship and the upcoming BB variant, what you've described so far is sounding good!!!! Good things are worth waiting for. Can't wait to see the finished product.
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Dizzy,
My sincerest apologies about the death in your family. I've been there many times, and it sucks everytime. Hope everyone is coping well.
I'd like to repeat what Centurus had said because I've been there as well, as late as last November (*sigh*). I offer my sincerest apologies as well.
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Our prayers are with you Dizzy. :'(
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Thanks for the well wishing and prayers.
Ok, here are some updates. I'm happy for the negative feedback I got about the impulse engines. They were since redesigned by MR from scratch from a concept sketch we came up with of sorts and you see the current beta textures I've given them.
There is a bit of red glow from weapons fire. But it looks cool in this shot. What happened to the dorsal drone bays?
(http://www.dynaverse.net/downloads/Images/models/AftNew1.jpg)
(http://www.dynaverse.net/downloads/Images/models/New%20Impulse1.jpg)
If you look closely you will notice twin bay doors in between the neck pylons. Sitting in each one are 3 drones ready to fire.
(http://www.dynaverse.net/downloads/Images/models/New%20Impulse2.jpg)
Here is the new torp bay. The tubes extend out from the torp housing and are beta textured. Some of you may notice phaser points are now seperately meshed and textured.
(http://www.dynaverse.net/downloads/Images/models/newtorp1.jpg)
Here's a closer look at the drone bays. They clear the Impulse structure if fired straight up. But they don't. If you'll notice, they are canted backward. The drone laucher mechanism 'pops' the drone out of the launch bay and when they clear the bay doors, the drone engine kicks in and they zoom away without ever coming into contact with the impuse engine exhaust. Made more sense to relocate the drones along side of the torpedo tubes to make more room for the engineering components in the aft hull. It all fits nicely.
(http://www.dynaverse.net/downloads/Images/models/Dronebay1.jpg)
It's close to being finished. There are plans for a detached saucer section and a BB variant of the DNH.
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Man, you have done a LOT of very precise work on this. It just looks amazing. :dance:
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Very nice work there :thumbsup: :thumbsup: :thumbsup: :thumbsup: :thumbsup: :notworthy:
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Wow, the detail is awesome (esp the drone bays)
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Dizzy and I are working on a few more little items and augmentations - unfortunately I've been a little too tied up to make any progress since these shots were posted, and I haven't been near Max or Photoshop for months...
A further complication is that my workhorse PC has had to be retired due to failing health (overheating and shutting down) which has been a recurring problem over the years, but the expense of replacing motherboards etc is now getting to me. I now have a replacement base unit with much improved graphics capability, but at the moment it doesn't have enough HD space for me to work comfortably, so I'm investing in a new 320GB external drive and will be transferring all my old files onto that (once it arrives) before I can start work in earnest. I'll also have to reinstall all the necessary software (but I need to find the disks first ::))...
MajorRacal
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oh dizzy. how's that Fed DN coming along??? i've viewed the rework photos and even though the missile bays show attention to detail
i think individual enclosed directional silos would be more apt to found on a DN. something about the weapon being exposed to incoming fire just doesn't make me sleep well.
U know... had it not been for the bashing I took over retaining the connie impulse units, this model'd be ready, heh. But its better for the most part because of it and that's why it was changed. I think what we have now because of the pointed criticism is much better and will be yet another original part to be kitbashed and seen on other models.
Afa the open drone bays... I thought about that. I'm not quite so sure your're serious, but all facetiousness behind, the only times that bay'd be open would be when it's firing. But creative liberties must be taken and in this situation, eye candy prevails. Sorry, no closed bays. But thanks for the feedback.