Yeah so the friday of two weeks ago involved me being trained by the very best. Before you reply, I'm not talking to you Hexx. Now then, the matchups were CB vs K-DW7 I believe and then CB vs NHK me taking every side in this.
CB vs DW7 seems ok
vs NHK...um speed 31 means about .2 power to recharge phasers unless you do something stupid like have no weasels or lowering shields because of HK. So you cannot phaser boat, so you lose. The best I could do was stay as far as possible and run NEAR 31 and use batts to use phasers enough to keep away, eventually having to HET out of there. Eventually I was able to get away or weaseled or something...I remember chasing HIM with 4 overloads at some point and weaseling many a torp..eventually losing by mistakenly taking an S in the rear empty shield instead of either having another weasel ready or turning slightly....was pretty dumb on my part.
In any case, should not the NHK completely destroy the CB? Once you get near a corner, the NHK can simply launch a pseudo, which if that fails, can launch one real to force me to turn further into the corner and then its game over. The CB just doesn't have enough discretionary power.
The best case that I can come up with is trying some kind of range 8 overload shot (charging up the HET so that it activates JUST after firing) and running the return fire out as much as possible, or launching a probe and weaseling. In which case the romulan is best launching one early torp (ballet) to convince me I should turn away while at the same time preventing me from weaseling his whole torpedo array, in which case I semi-run it out then try for range 8 again but which I won't be able to because of the terrible power.
Essentially, I can't run, and will take large amounts of torpedo damage, so the best bet is to get as close as possible, alpha strike, and try to probe and weasel the exact second he fires (no weasel if it's fake). Maybe doing this enough times will net enough internals to win before I run out of shuttles, or before I take internals from him string launching so I can't weasel too well.
Oh I almost forgot the key, hit and running the big torps.
Anybody have any tactical advice in this matchup?? I'd say if you are the Fed, run off the map.
Yeah so the friday of two weeks ago involved me being trained by the very best.
Ok thanks to all resident experts for replying :)
DieHard you ARE the best, my comment was aimed at Hexx knowing he would *assume* I was talking to him ;)
Farfarer, that's kinda what I was thinking, but others seem to go with the phaser boat strategy as the later replies indicate. I agree with the benefits of the shorter game, though. Of course, I don't mind longer ones too much anyway since I'm still relatively new to this game and it's fun no matter what.
762 and DieHard I shall revert back to proxying and phaser-boating, unless...
...Hexx, are you suggesting then that it's worth an overload pass to take a hit on a side shield which will regen shortly enough anyway? Exactly what type of "decent shot" are you looking for?
Lastly DieHard, as always your continued help is much appreciated and I would love future IP games later this week. As for now I shall watch the demos. BTW I thought I had dropped photons...I really thought it had almost no power beyond maintaining max speed, seems I screwed up there.
wait one more thing, I'll have to test out the CLC vs the (stupid) computer (who will probably alpha pseudo torp strike me right when the scenario opens)
The NHK and RHK are considered Heavy Battle Cruisers (barely by my standards) so fighting them in a CB should be a bit of an uphill battle.
I've managed to take out NHK's in CLC's.. and as I'm sure someone will point out- if I can do it..
I agree with Corbomite, poor match-up. The R-NHK is nearly invincible in the hands of an experienced Rom player. You'd have a much better chance in a fed BCH, but they are so deadly slow while the R-NHK runs around at full speed arming all its plasma with full EW... ::). You have to carry a big stick and catch the R-NHK captain sleeping to have a chance at beating it.
Theres one other issue that the stupid computer brought up flying around at speed 8 with a lot of reinforcement apparently...proxies do zero damage. Lets say they are almost stopped with full reinforcement... a range 12.99 alpha if it hit with all proxies or two normals would do 16 + some phaser damage = zero...
The NHK and RHK are considered Heavy Battle Cruisers (barely by my standards) so fighting them in a CB should be a bit of an uphill battle.
Are they really BCHs? The Command rating is a 9, BCHs have a 10 and I always thought that was the deciding factor. If they are BCHs by SFB standards, they are weak.
I know the Sunhawk is an NHK with 12 fighters (8 in SFC) and IS considered the Romulan BCV.
EDIT: Just check the SITs, both the R-NHK and the F-BCF/G cost 10 EP to build.
So is it simply considered rude to castle with an NHK then or am I missing something?
How are you supposed to beat an uncrackable ship with a big alpha?
So is it simply considered rude to castle with an NHK then or am I missing something? How are you supposed to beat an uncrackable ship with a big alpha?
They are command cruisers, not BCH's.
Mind you they are very good command cruisers.
Films are so over rated... hehe. So I fought a CB in an RHK? I remember killing a CX in an RHK... Dunna like the the RHK. One shot wonder.
I ever tell you about the time an NHK pwnd an NCL+, a CB AND a CVS+ all in the same mission? hehe. Tell Jeff and Wanderer I miss them, DH. ;)
EDIT: Oh, and no, the CB never has a chance vs the NHK, both captains skill being equal.
I ever tell you about the time an NHK pwnd an NCL+, a CB AND a CVS+ all in the same mission? hehe. Tell Jeff and Wanderer I miss them, DH. ;)
So I guess the H-CHC is a heavy battlecruiser then?
I always find it amusing to hear from those who swear off SFB as being irrelevant, and follow the gospel of Taldren instead.
Have you been enjoying SFC3 Corb?
Oh, and I miss you too. ;)Where u hidin, ho?
I always find it amusing that the SFB fanboys seem to forget that 50% - 60% of SFB isn't included in this game and none of F&E is at all. Play the game you bought and save the wet dreams for your pillow OK?
Again I would love to play and practice and test more later this week!!
EDIT: I hope this sort of arguing isn't bothering anyone..I'd hate to be the annoying know-it-all new guy that in fact knows nothing..I was hoping this is interesting.
Your point? 80% (at least) of SFB isn't included in any SFB scenario I play either.
Theres one other issue that the stupid computer brought up flying around at speed 8 with a lot of reinforcement apparently...proxies do zero damage. Lets say they are almost stopped with full reinforcement... a range 12.99 alpha if it hit with all proxies or two normals would do 16 + some phaser damage = zero...
The CLC CANNOT break a Castling Rom, a CB has a much better chance of doing so.
The Rom would have to be really fooish to allow a running battle against a CLC which has a better power curve unless the NHK captains downgraded his S torps.
Nevertheless, 90% (at least) of SFC is SFB. You can't have the former without the latter.
-S'Cipio
Playing the game the way it came out of the box...... Hummmm >>>>>
Interesting concept....MB we should try it sometime !!
:rofl: :rofl: :rofl:
Or, better yet, just look at how absurd the Taldren creations are.
EDIT: I hope this sort of arguing isn't bothering anyone..I'd hate to be the annoying know-it-all new guy that in fact knows nothing..I was hoping this is interesting.
Usually DH plays by the book and wins. But when he is out-shipped... Many peeps learn bold and stupid from me. It's one of many 'Dizzy's Bag of Stupid Tricks' stunts, guaranteed to kill get you killed quicker than you can say lickety split when you mess up even slightly... which is why most peeps don't use them. But some people just cant see it coming and somehow get pwnd horribly... :D
CB has the advantage that it can take a hit better if the pilot makes a mistake.
CLC's a better ship though.
They are command cruisers, not BCH's.
Mind you they are very good command cruisers.
So I guess the H-CHC is a heavy battlecruiser then?
I always find it amusing to hear from those who swear off SFB as being irrelevant, and follow the gospel of Taldren instead.
valid. This ship is considered to be a heavy battlecruiser.
Designed by Jeff Smith.
This ship is a "Heavy Hawk;" see (R4.N3).
SSD and counter are in Module R4.
But it turns quicker! ;D
While we're on this discussion, could someone remind me what the status of the I-CCZ is again? Remember, it's a "measily" command cruiser, carrying a whopping 1 extra HW and 4 more power than the CA version of the same hull... ;)
As for the CLC-CB comparison, the war cruiser leaders are more fun to fly (for me at least), but as DH says, they are far weaker in terms of durability. You cannot afford to make 2 mistakes against the bigger hulls in a war cruiser.
While I kinda like the Fast Cruisers( ::) ) the Heavy War Destroyers are a travesty.
While we're on this discussion, could someone remind me what the status of the I-CCZ is again? Remember, it's a "measily" command cruiser, carrying a whopping 1 extra HW and 4 more power than the CA version of the same hull... ;)
You really need to get a clue.
valid. This ship is considered to be a heavy battlecruiser.
Designed by Jeff Smith.
This ship is a "Heavy Hawk;" see (R4.N3).
SSD and counter are in Module R4.
While we're on this discussion, could someone remind me what the status of the I-CCZ is again? Remember, it's a "measily" command cruiser, carrying a whopping 1 extra HW and 4 more power than the CA version of the same hull... ;)
You really need to get a clue.
Once again, I am reminded of exactly why I don't post on the forum as much as I should...
Here I am, making the case that the R-NHK is a BCH-classed ship, and decide that, in my usual half-sarcastic / half-humouros self, to post a tounge-in-cheek remark that would illustrate the point, in that the I-CCZ is another CA-hulled BCH-classed ship.
Am I the only one that sees the smiley face I put at the end of my CCZ remark, and remembers that smileys are supposed to denote humor?
I thank you all for the generous reminder.
Quote from: The Holy book of SFB, Module R4, P6, R4.72:valid. This ship is considered to be a heavy battlecruiser.
Designed by Jeff Smith.
This ship is a "Heavy Hawk;" see (R4.N3).
SSD and counter are in Module R4.
I think I smell t00l's hemorrhoids burning. :P
Thanks Julin.
While I kinda like the Fast Cruisers( ::) ) the Heavy War Destroyers are a travesty.
Anyways- I honestly don't find *that* big a difference amongst the fast cruisers, they're cheesy (light) yes, but (imho) they
balance relatively well against each other.
Quote from: The Holy book of SFB, Module R4, P6, R4.72:valid. This ship is considered to be a heavy battlecruiser.
Designed by Jeff Smith.
This ship is a "Heavy Hawk;" see (R4.N3).
SSD and counter are in Module R4.
I think I smell t00l's hemorrhoids burning. :P
Thanks Julin.
Where does "Heavy Hawk" mean BCH?
Quote from: The Holy book of SFB, Module R4, P6, R4.72:valid. This ship is considered to be a heavy battlecruiser.
Designed by Jeff Smith.
This ship is a "Heavy Hawk;" see (R4.N3).
SSD and counter are in Module R4.
I think I smell t00l's hemorrhoids burning. :P
Thanks Julin.
Where does "Heavy Hawk" mean BCH?
Are you blind? Here I'll make the important part bigger so even you can see it.This ship is considered to be a heavy battlecruiser.
So it's a Command cruiser, right? ;D
So it's a Command cruiser, right? ;D
You're such a dumbass
HEAVY HAWK
It'd be a Heavy Command Cruiser.
Boy, the contrition around here is just amazing. ::)
IMO it is a CCH, however, since in SFB the KCR is conjectural and the KHK is limited by number and Shock rules, I think they consider them BCH's for purposes of build economics and command functions where applicable.
BTW, apology accepted. :P
What time shall we "dance" tonight? I recommend between 10-12, but you have a say as well.
So it's a Command cruiser, right? ;D
So it's a Command cruiser, right? ;D
You're such a dumbass
HEAVY HAWK
It'd be a Heavy Command Cruiser.
BTW was Corbo just being charming or are the "Heavy Hawks" actually considered BCH's?
I always though Heavy Hawk was just a designator for a ship bigger than a Firehawk, smaller than a DN.
(Course I don't have the module so..)
Corbo, while being a real fokker sometimes you are still a damned funny fokker.[/size][/color]
<snicker>
:popcorn:
Hydran is all about timing. Know when to be passive (dance), and when to be aggressive (charge).
Oh, and DH, it didnt help to call out aloud everytime you knew I was about to pull a stunt. He aint gonna learn unless he experiences it. :P Other than that, great coaching. A few more nights like tonight and he will be ready for Hexx...
Despite my 3x mess ups:
A, accidently wasted a scatter at range 30, hehe. That's ok, tho cuz it was funny how your mine still managed to miss it.
B, HET'd to fire a full alpha at under 9, and all went well till I realized to my horror that my photons were set to proxy, lol. I unfortunately turned back into you (greedy) to fire them and took a 28 point internal from the plasma I couldnt outrun because of my mistake.
C. I had to ES in a corner because my HET never started (misclicks kill you) and I was about to fly off. I ate 2 S torps and an F. But luckily... my shields regenerated and that mistake 15 minutes into the fight didnt make that much a difference and hour later when it was over.
Your mistakes: You eat Tboms too often. Know when to get close while chasing and when not to. Your losing your front shields to my tbombs so early in the match is likely why the fight lasted an hour.
To your credit, you consistently frustrated me as I had to turn off my loaded photons 3 times during the match because of your excellent chasing and psuedo tactics. You didnt give me time/chance to turn in to fire.
You, however, didnt kill me, I disengaged, but not before giving you every opportunuty to do so. Lesson: Know when to take a bloody nose if you can come out with a bigger better trade off... or the kill for that matter. You were not aggressive enough and gave me way too much respect at times especially at the end and I slipped thru your fingers when you should have easily taken me.
Oh, and DH, it didnt help to call out aloud everytime you knew I was about to pull a stunt. He aint gonna learn unless he experiences it. :P Other than that, great coaching. A few more nights like tonight and he will be ready for Hexx...
Our last match I tried to teach him that... I told him to control the match, be more aggressive and chase more, but he settled back into his comfortable routine of saber dancing. I did show him an aggressive move. He performed it... and got a Tbomb bukakke. At least he learned two things, I think he knows now to ES when a buncha mines are in his path instead of running them all down, or to either wait to be aggressive till after your opponent has used up his scatters and mines. But at least he learned the aggressive move.
Where he definitely directly saved me was once I started to lose my front shields I was going to keep chasing as best as I could, and he said just run parallel to keep up the pressure without actually exposing yourself...
. . which of course is why the NHK is total BS.
In conclusion, I'm sorry I wasted so much time in that fight! I hope you enjoyed it anyway :)
I WANT to learn from all that Dizzy has to say. Just so long as it doesn't get me blown up 5 seconds later.
Bottom line there was to get you to try something different and see how it worked or not.
Oops. There you have it, the Lyrans are worthless.
But the point is I only got blown up when I closed the range! Yes I lost every mission where "I did what I wanted" but only AFTER I stopped dancing. At no point was I in danger at losing between ranges 8-16 that I was firing my HBs from. All of my loses were caused by my closing the range. Many of the times I closed were on my own volition, which is your point that I lost flying my own way, but the point is that it's not from hellbore dancing. Now it may be that hellbore dancing shouldn't win in theory, but it was working against your responses in those games. Unforuntely I don't have the films as I played at least 5 games vs the AI afterwards, but if you have them you can confirm that you were taking internals and I hadn't lost a shield yet. The losses all came after turning in.
To Hexx: I forgot to reply earlier: I checked the manual thoroughly and could not find a single mention of the HB ship blowing up when it shoots the ESG fields. I did see on one page's footnotes that if you ram a cloaked ship with them YOU blow up.
:D :D :D
I would LOOOOVE to fly Lyran, except if I wanted disruptors I would fly Klingon and take more phasers and drones. If I wanted ESG fields I'd fly Hydran and use fusions/gattlings to replace an offensive ESG and gattlings to replace the defensive ESG. If I wanted no power while charging I'd fly Fed. If I wanted stupid phasers I'd fly Lyran. Oops. There you have it, the Lyrans are worthless.
heheh
New Thread: R-NHK Vs. L-BCPp
It will take longer to lose the saber dance but you will lose it just the same. If you over-rely on those split arcs you show him your rear every time. Eventually it drops and the internals start racking up. Your weapons get miziaed, you run out of parts, and things get p00py real fast.
Chasing him all the time won't work either (as you discovered), because of all his transporters and rear firing phasers.
This is not to say the fight is hopeless by any means. It just becomes a question of timing, knowing when to use each tactic. Occasionally overloading and luring him into range 8 is a good middle ground, if he bites. Mix that up with the starndard range 15 saber, and try for an overrun when the timing is right. The timing is right if:
1) You are mostly loaded
2) He is mostly not
3) He is being aggressive, not running away from you
4) You think you can catch him by surprise
And don't forget a repel. That is VERY important.
If you died trying this against Dizzy it does not mean the tactic is invalid. It just means you have to work on your timing.
There is of course a third tactic, which is to castle. But I wouldn't recommend trying it until you familiarize yourself thoroughly with the moving battle.
New Thread: R-NHK Vs. L-BCPp
Screw castling... ships should have a stall speed of 12-15... yes in space. We'll say their warp drives fail if not kept above 12-15.I hate to say this but some time castling is the best thing in some of the hydran ships (spits into the wind) Aginst some of the later klingon ships with their better turn rates and weapon arcs It is asking to get a scatter pack in your face if your chasing or even worse letting him get behind you. If the pilot is any good he will be able to stay out of your arcs for the heavys and pound your rear shields with his.
New Thread: R-NHK Vs. L-BCPp
Is that even a contest?
This is why bpv is so pointless. The NHK has 3 more than the bcpp.
This is why bpv is so pointless. The NHK has 3 more than the bcpp.
My best piece of advice that i can give you is to listen to them and ask alot of questions. If some thing isnt working for you try something different, what works for them might not be your style but knowing it could save your a$$ one day.
This is why bpv is so pointless. The NHK has 3 more than the bcpp.
That is with the cloak, which while usefula against some races is not any good against Lyrans.
192 x .85 = 163.5 BPV is the non-cloak effective NHK BPV. This is of course funny as this is lower than the F-CB's 165 BPV which is not as good.
Ahhh, thx for reminding me... gonna tape it.
Hey, I didnt see BSG last fri night. Just a buncha SG1 episodes... U?
Ahhh, thx for reminding me... gonna tape it.
Hey, I didnt see BSG last fri night. Just a buncha SG1 episodes... U?
"they can do anything"
But they can't do anything well. :P
Surely you've heard the expression "A jack of all trades is master of none."
Surely you've heard the expression "A jack of all trades is master of none."
You have no idea what you are talking about. Please remove your foot before speaking :P
Surely you've heard the expression "A jack of all trades is master of none."
You have no idea what you are talking about. Please remove your foot before speaking :P
:lol:
Point of information: theoretically, is the 15% "Cloak tax" including the extra engine power that would be needed to run the cloaking device?This is why bpv is so pointless. The NHK has 3 more than the bcpp.
That is with the cloak, which while usefula against some races is not any good against Lyrans.
192 x .85 = 163.5 BPV is the non-cloak effective NHK BPV. This is of course funny as this is lower than the F-CB's 165 BPV which is not as good.
Point of information: theoretically, is the 15% "Cloak tax" including the extra engine power that would be needed to run the cloaking device?This is why bpv is so pointless. The NHK has 3 more than the bcpp.
That is with the cloak, which while usefula against some races is not any good against Lyrans.
192 x .85 = 163.5 BPV is the non-cloak effective NHK BPV. This is of course funny as this is lower than the F-CB's 165 BPV which is not as good.
(if the NHK is dropped to the same power level of the CB (and without cloak), the match would be a lot closer (even in feds favor) at 165 bpv.)
Actually it (kinda) proves my point.
You should try and get someone from all the races to train the new guys.
I mean I really don't mind when I fight a new Fed or Klink and they
try and overrun a BCHP , but maybe a quick run through what all the races can do.
<sigh>
maybe if someone would have taken the time way back when I wouldn't have such issues
fighting plasma. :'(
But serioulsy- have it set up so the new guys flya against all the races, I remember when I started flying Lyran
that all I was told was "Lyrans are great close up"
So I proceeded to lose god knows how many (I'm sure in the hundreds) of matches to t00l and Bearslayer
before I finally wised up and said, hmm overrunning Hydrans= dead ship.
Really, I think if you're going to set up and run Fun IP games for free the least you could do it do it properly.
Point of information: theoretically, is the 15% "Cloak tax" including the extra engine power that would be needed to run the cloaking device?
(if the NHK is dropped to the same power level of the CB (and without cloak), the match would be a lot closer (even in feds favor) at 165 bpv.)
What do you mean "were?"
Face it Hexx, you do best when on my wing :P