Topic: How Rat Boy would do SFC4...  (Read 2656 times)

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Offline Rat Boy

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How Rat Boy would do SFC4...
« on: June 24, 2004, 12:30:53 pm »
Ever since SFC3 came out, we've all be wondering what would come next.  Since Taldren is leaving the states behind, the chances of their doing it are slim to none.  That means that the future of SFC is up for grabs for anyone to take.  So, here's how I would do Starfleet Command 4: Galaxies at War


Technical stuff:

* First, the in-game engine has to go.  The one created for SFC:OP has served us well, but it is time we started anew.  In addition to having jaw-dropping graphics and scenery, it would allow us to do many more things.  For instance, location based damage.  Now, ideally, if you wanted to target an enemies phaser bank, your weapons would actually shoot towards where the hardpoint is located on the model.  If you hit, your opponent gets his hull damaged, assuming the shields were down.  Additionally, flying over and under ships and stations will be better modeled to eliminate model clipping.  If weapons were to miss, it would be even more obvious this time around.  Shuttles would launch from where the hangars are located on the model and so forth.  User interfaces would be different for each race.

* Second, we overhaul the dynaverse.  For starters, we'd see every sector in our territory rather than be completely lost.  Each star system would be distinctive and have a name.  Each star system's economic status would determine how often it would churn out vessels available for requisition.  There would be trade and supply routes that could be attacked by enemies and pirates, disruption of which could affect the economic health of star systems and empires.  System blockades by enemy forces shut down econmies entirely.  Plus, planetary invasions wouldn't be as simple as "flipping a hex;" this time, you'll need massive troop transports and your fleet will have to protect them as they wage a real-time ground war to take control of the planets in the system. 

Alliances would also play a bigger and more major role this time around.  For single player, scripted events and plot twists would alter how races interact with each other.  Allied races can't attack each other, but may team up in missions.  Neutral races may attack each other or team up, depending on the mood of the captains.  And enemy races, well, let's just hope for your sake that you're not at a tactical disadvantage.  Finally, there would be warring races, where the gloves come completely off.  Such functions would be duplicated in the multiplayer dynaverse through appointed race leaders and council members who have the authority to make treaties and declare war on other powers.  Also, it will be possible to find a ship from your own side.  Say if you wanted to find the fleet commanded by Stephen the w00tmaster, then you'd enter his screen name or name of his ship to find out what sector he was in.  This feature would also work for AI ships and single-player hero ships, so if you wanted to partner up with the Enterprise, you could, just be prepared for the toughest missions possible.

* Lastly, in a bit inspired by the latest build of Generations at War, there would be eras.  For instance, in SFC4:GAW, there would be two: The Original Series era and The Motion Picture era.  Both would have distinctive models, slightly different maps, and different story content.  More on all of this later, when the concept of eras gets really interesting.

* Modability, you ask?  There will be that too, thanks to the era system.  Essentially, modders can create eras filled with their own ships, own maps, own weapons, and even their own races.  Say you wanted to create your own Earth-Romulan War era.  Now that's possible.  You could make a human race, a Vulcan race, an Andorian race, a Romulan race, and whoever else you want to throw in.  All the end-user has to do is simply click on what era they wanted to play in through a menu and that's it.  It would essentially work the same as mods for Quake 3 and the Battlefield series without necessitating multiple installs of SFC4.


Content stuff:

* Now we come to the real meat and potatoes of SFC.  As the title would indicate, we would indeed have Galaxies at War.  Returning would be all the races from SFC2 and added in would be the Andromedans, Tholians, and Seltorians.  Almost every power would have two sets of models for each era (time permitting).  The ruleset will be completely grounded in SFB, so we would have six shields, phasers for everyone, ECM/ECCM, and the like.  Basically, you're getting exactly what you asked for and to boot, you can play the TOS era online like SFB online, if you so choose.

* Single player in this game would consist of two major campaigns, one for each era: a Cold War-style campaign in the TOS era and an Andromedan Invasion campaign in TMP.  Like SFC3, these campaigns would be heavily plot and story driven, but also like SFC2, they would be completely seperate and not entirely overlap.  For example, in the AI campaign, you would have campaigns involving:

Klingons vs. Tholians vs. Seltorians
Mirak vs. Lyrans vs. Hydrans
Romulans vs. Gorn vs. the ISC insurgents left over after SFC2
Everyone vs. the Andromedans

Multiplayer, of course, would be more like it is now, plus the added interstellar diplomacy angle.


Of course, this is all a bit broad and perhaps too far reaching.  If it came down to it, work on the TOS era could be dropped entirely, but the era mod system would still be open so that modders could create their own TOS era using models based on SFB.  Stay tuned for my next post, when I outline the expansion to this: Starfleet Command 4 - The Next Generation.


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Offline Stylsy

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Re: How Rat Boy would do SFC4...
« Reply #1 on: June 24, 2004, 12:46:40 pm »
All very good ideas, but as as Trek gaming history has shown, will likely not be a project someone would take. I think SFC is perhaps the most ambitious and well-thought out series, and people complained it was 'too complicated'.

Offline Darth Sidious

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Re: How Rat Boy would do SFC4...
« Reply #2 on: June 24, 2004, 12:51:34 pm »
Most of us that are here are looking for something similar to SFB on computer.  Joe Schmoe public wants dumbed down.


Offline Chris SI

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Re: How Rat Boy would do SFC4...
« Reply #3 on: June 24, 2004, 12:54:59 pm »
Looks like some good ideas there.

One thing I hate is the cloak in SFC 3, makes the game a click fest, and there is far to much importance to aft firing weapons.

I would also like to see all the races of the STTNG era, and only have the Borg as a random menace.

On a strageic map, I would much prefer a TOTAL fleet listing, meaning that EVERY ship in each empire is located and accounted for, and you can only get a better ship if there is one available as built or at the base, not just picking from a list based on prestige. So if say, the Federation only had 10 Soverigens available, you would only get one of you were at a base were one was docked, not a random generated ship just because you have the prestige.

This would mean the game would need an economic engine, real fleet yards, and planets would have to be identified as sources of raw materials and finished products.

Players could have it both ways, play as we are used too, or actually take control of fleets, assign ships to sectors and fleets, it could even include fleet officers. You can always have the option of tactical resolution of battles, as per normal.

Sort of a giant "Federation & Empire" game, covering all the eras.

Probaly won't happen, but I would love it.
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Offline Rat Boy

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Re: How Rat Boy would do SFC4...
« Reply #4 on: June 24, 2004, 12:56:20 pm »
Now it's time to discuss the next phase, an expansion pack entitled SFC4 - The Next Generation.  This would take advantage of the era system.  Here's how it would work:


* The SFB ruleset would be modified to make it work with the TNG era and to make the ships behave as canon as possible.  Although it won't be as "streamlined" as the rules in SFC3 were, it'll be different enough to give the era a different flavor.  For instance, ph-1, 2, and 3 would be gone.  The Feds would have their Type 9, 10, 11, and 12 phasers while the Klingons would have Types 1, 2, 3, and 4 disruptors and so on.  Also, there would be no Mechwarriror-style refitting.  It would work the same as it had before, although ships would be referred to by their class names rather than F-CC, K-C7, R-ROC, etc.  Additionally, as I should have mentioned above, refitting would work as it did in SFC 1.  For example, once the Nemesis refit of the Sovereign-class became available, you could take your starship into a shipyard and for a modest amount of prestige (far less than trading your ship in and requisitioning a new one), your ship would be refitted to the new specs with enhanced shields and weapons.

* Four new races would be added on top of the other ones: the Cardassians, the Dominion, the Breen, and the Borg.  That's right, I said on top of.  The Mirak, Hydrans, Lyrans, Gorn, ISC, Tholians, Seltorians, and perhaps the Andromedans would still be there, more or less, although their territories would be tiny in comparison to the major players for obvious reasons and perhaps they wouldn't get any new models for cost and simplicity sake, just modified ship specs to fit the new rules.

* The new graphics engine would allow for the most canon-looking ships seen in Starfleet Command yet.  The phaser arrays on Federation ships would glow before firing.  Torpedoes and disruptors would fly out of their appropriate weapon ports.  You might even see an escape pod or two, but hopefully from your opponent's ship.

* Single player wise, you would have two major campaigns again, although all would be set in the TNG era: the Dominion War, and a post-Nemesis storyline.  Multiplayer would still be the same.

* Finally, in another feature I should have mentioned before when discussing the dynaverse is the concept of subdomains.  For example, in the AI campaign, there would be a Lesser Magellanic Cloud; a mini-map seperate from the main one accessable through some sort of transwarp gateway or the like.  In the DW campaign, that would be the Gamma Quadrant that can be reached via the Bajoran Wormhole.  The Borg would also have their bases in the Delta Quadrant and could enter the main map through transwarp conduits.  Modders can create multiple subdomains, perhaps even alternate timeperiods accessable through temporal anomalies, the Mirror Universe, alternate realities, Species 8472's fluidic space, and maybe even SFB's Omega Sector.  The possibilities are nearly endless.


As I said before, this is one of those "ask for everything, settle for less" things.  Some of the races, like the Borg, could be cut and made into a monster race.  The Cardassians, Dominion, and/or Breen could be combined into one power.  However, with the open-ended modability, the possibilies for what modders could create are astounding.  So, what do you guys think?  Anybody have about $30 million in venture capital and a contact at Paramount for us to get started?


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Offline Merlinfmct87

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Re: How Rat Boy would do SFC4...
« Reply #5 on: June 24, 2004, 04:39:07 pm »
F&E would be fantastic, both Muliplayer and Singleplayer.

As for the cloak, IMHO, there should be an option--invisible cloak or shift. At least, that is how SFB did it.

And the SFB rules have ALREADY been modified to fit TNG...

SmileyLich's site(aka Donald Miller)

I'd love to see this as a basis for SFC+/SFC4/SFC2SFB whatever the name turns out to be for the TNG era.

Maybe we could release expansions ala modules?(for free of course).

It would make it rather cool to downlad "Module R10" for example or "Module 3X - The Next Generation"

BTW, I made a post along these lines in the modders forum before I knew about this one... :banghead:

Merlin
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Offline Age

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Re: How Rat Boy would do SFC4...
« Reply #6 on: June 24, 2004, 09:09:16 pm »
 Please would somebody tell what F&E stand for and any other SFB related material .I have never player or seen the board game and played I wouldn't mind it if someone would explian the terminalogy to me please.Thank you.

Offline Chris SI

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Re: How Rat Boy would do SFC4...
« Reply #7 on: June 24, 2004, 09:16:54 pm »
Federation & Empire was a board game that simulated the first general war on a strategic scale. Players had the option of resolving comabt using Star Fleet Battles, or a simple dice roll forumla.
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Offline Merlinfmct87

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Re: How Rat Boy would do SFC4...
« Reply #8 on: June 25, 2004, 12:23:37 am »
Another Idea...


One of the main complaints I hear about the F&E Boardgame is the fact that it takes a LOOONG time to play out a simple Klingon/Federation war, often taking years(assuming you use SFB to sort out the fights).

SFC could really drop the time of that...So it would be a good justification to include an "F&E" mode of play. Would certainly make a lot of SFB players happy, and provide the advertising/demo people have been wanting(I.E. SFC is an excellent "demo" of SFB--especially now, considering the low price you can get SFC at. F&E's core pack is $50, and you can easily waste $200 in suppliments)

Merlin
Learned the Heart's Filthy Lesson from Joshua Watcher.

The books that the world calls immoral are the books that show the world own shame.
-Oscar Wilde

I don't like country music, but I don't mean to denigrate those who do. And for the people who like country music, denigrate means 'put down'
-Bob Newhart

Music expresses that which cannot be put into words and that which cannot remain silent.
-Victor Hugo

He Took it all too far..but boy could he play guitar
-David Bowie, Ziggy Stardust

Offline Chris SI

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Re: How Rat Boy would do SFC4...
« Reply #9 on: June 25, 2004, 12:34:35 am »
I would expect SFC to climb in price as time goes by, as no new copies will be made.

It might be possible to get the game reprinted, some publishers will buy old games for reprinting if they think there is a market for it.
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Offline Rat Boy

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Re: How Rat Boy would do SFC4...
« Reply #10 on: June 28, 2004, 10:51:22 am »
Last to first bump.


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Offline kv1at3485

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Re: How Rat Boy would do SFC4...
« Reply #11 on: June 28, 2004, 05:48:19 pm »
As usual my vote is for comprehensive built-in editors.

Offline Rat Boy

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Re: How Rat Boy would do SFC4...
« Reply #12 on: June 28, 2004, 06:11:29 pm »
Which works with the era system.  Like Q3a and HL, it'd be possible to totally remake the game.  You could, in theory, make a Star Wars "era" and switch between it and the regular eras at a click of a button.


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Offline Merlinfmct87

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Re: How Rat Boy would do SFC4...
« Reply #13 on: June 29, 2004, 12:31:52 am »
As usual my vote is for comprehensive built-in editors.

As long as they really *are* comprehensive. Too many times developers with either no skill or no time(i.e. the publisher is pulling out thumbscrews to get this game out by xmas) ship editors that are inferior to what modders were able to do without them.

But if you mean a powerful editor, then YES PLEAAAAAAAASE!!!!!

Merlin, of sound mind and stiff wizard hat.
Learned the Heart's Filthy Lesson from Joshua Watcher.

The books that the world calls immoral are the books that show the world own shame.
-Oscar Wilde

I don't like country music, but I don't mean to denigrate those who do. And for the people who like country music, denigrate means 'put down'
-Bob Newhart

Music expresses that which cannot be put into words and that which cannot remain silent.
-Victor Hugo

He Took it all too far..but boy could he play guitar
-David Bowie, Ziggy Stardust

Offline Don Karnage

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Re: How Rat Boy would do SFC4...
« Reply #14 on: June 30, 2004, 07:03:34 am »
what cold be cool is when you go to a starbase to get a new ship, you must navigate inside the station with your ship and park it, then go to the station computer and see what ship available there, and listed of buying a F-CC+ and selling your F-CC, you go in a space dock and make the refit to your ship, also an multi eras game from tos to tmp to the next enterprise B to the next enterprise to the next generation, having more that 3 ship in your command and when you attack an enemy base and there ally ship with you, you could command them, give them command and that the follow the order, having real variant of a ship, not the same mod with different spec but a visible difference in ship, new impulse engine, new warp engine, warp pylon differant that the regular one, be able to see how many spar part your ship have left and a max for that type of ship, be able to really capture an enemy ship and getting a reward for that, like in sfc3 be able to go to warp in a star system, be able to control your speed at impulse and be able to reverse the engine and control the helm to follow the target and match is speed, system solar with more planet and a sun, more ship movement in the star system and having mission outside solar system. :goodpost:

Offline kv1at3485

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Re: How Rat Boy would do SFC4...
« Reply #15 on: June 30, 2004, 07:42:54 am »
Merlinfmct87,

Everytime I think of a mission editor, I think back to FRED (FreeSpace Mission/Campaign Editor.)  Now that's comphrehensive.

Then there's the WarCraft and StarCraft ones, but truly I have little expertise in those.

As for new ship and weapon editors, FS didn't come with editors for those, but the table system made it easy to make new ones.  The real trick was making a good model, etc..

I'm sorta obssessed with editors.  I'm working on a little something right now and the first thing I'm doing is getting the ship, systems, weapons, tactical scenario editors up.  Just goes to show where my crazy priorities lie...

Offline Merlinfmct87

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Re: How Rat Boy would do SFC4...
« Reply #16 on: June 30, 2004, 12:22:52 pm »
Merlinfmct87,

Everytime I think of a mission editor, I think back to FRED (FreeSpace Mission/Campaign Editor.)  Now that's comphrehensive.

Then there's the WarCraft and StarCraft ones, but truly I have little expertise in those.

As for new ship and weapon editors, FS didn't come with editors for those, but the table system made it easy to make new ones.  The real trick was making a good model, etc..

I'm sorta obssessed with editors.  I'm working on a little something right now and the first thing I'm doing is getting the ship, systems, weapons, tactical scenario editors up.  Just goes to show where my crazy priorities lie...

FRED? I'll look at it.

As for another editing suite I can recommend, I'd point you to TeamBG. They have made the Infinity Engine do things even the designers were afraid to attempt(not to mention influenced sequals. Their tools have been used by the developers!)

Take Care,

Merlin
Learned the Heart's Filthy Lesson from Joshua Watcher.

The books that the world calls immoral are the books that show the world own shame.
-Oscar Wilde

I don't like country music, but I don't mean to denigrate those who do. And for the people who like country music, denigrate means 'put down'
-Bob Newhart

Music expresses that which cannot be put into words and that which cannot remain silent.
-Victor Hugo

He Took it all too far..but boy could he play guitar
-David Bowie, Ziggy Stardust