Topic: EAW or OP, which is better when fully patched?

[The_Infiltrator]

If you want to find out how to run 2 PC's off the same router, ask Doppler. I'm almost certian that he and a buddy do this.

[Cleaven]

It would be very interesting to see this done.  

[Mog]

A friend and I managed to connect to the same D2 server at the same time via a router, by using a program called dxport.exe. But, we could not play in the same missions, although we could be drafted into separate missions. That's the best we've managed, but it wasn't enough as we obviously desired to fly together in the same missions, hence my friend gave the game up.

[Bonk]

     

Quote:


In order:
No - not possible with the standard setup. The local PC must be able to get past the firewall to login to the campaign list server.

It doesn't - try having two PC's with OP inside a home router, connect to a D2 server. If you have solved this then you are a true D2 hero!

Yes.
     

What is not possible? I tell you I can run a D2 client and server behind the same router and have it
work perfectly. (The server and client do not reqiuire the same ports)

What doesn't what?

Yes what?

I have also experimented with Dxport for two clients, as Mog has, but found the same.  It seems there is no way
to forward the same port to two machines on a LAN (?).  One must obtain a second public IP address
one way or another.

I think it's time for Cleaven to admin a server. Enough pontification and more action!

Seriously, I am interested in your opinion Cleaven, as I know you have good experience with
the client behind a router. I am just rather confused by your ambiguous responses.  

[Cleaven]

How can it work perfectly if you have already said you can't draft properly?

Yes.

Like hell.

And this from somebody called Bonk and registered two weeks ago. Get real.  

[Bonk]

Um, by editing the SQL db to show my public IP that's how.

Geez, chill man.  I'd still like you to explain your statements.
I am showing you the respect of listening to your views,
please show the same courtesy, thanks.

[Cleaven]

I see the way you use SQL editing of the DB, but that doesn't change how drafting works for standard setups, and would only be useful for a local admin. You may be able to fix the routing for an internal IP depending on the router you have. None of the common home routers work in the same way and several of them don't even allow for the correct functioning of an OP client.

As for chilling, you are obviiosly somebody who has been around here for a bit, and I am very suspicious of your motive for the subterfuge. And I find the name offensive too.    

[Bonk]

Ah, thanks so much for the explanation of your comments.

Sorry if the name offends - it's not meant to, if it means something that I have not considered I will post under a new name if you desire. I just picked it at random.  

[FireSoul]

Yeah. DXport is interesting, but doesn't solve the problem where every host has a port 47624. SFC uses DX7 code.


.. this has given me an idea and I will experiment with it and my linux 2.4 firewall and some source-based packet mangling. I probably won't succeed, but it's worth the try. If * DO* succeed, I will document here what I had to do. I was not aware of DXPort until today, so I am hopeful now.


-- Luc

edit:
Forget the idea.. I just remembered DX will connect to 47624 to discover what 2300-2400 port to connect to. Since that portforward could only be forwarded to a single machine, the argument is moot. We can't predict which machine will be hosting when taking drafting into account.

[Mog]

Luc, what do you mean by the last bit? Can't predict which machine will be hosting? As it's a LAN we're talking about, the drafter can be determined easily, unless both parties are drafted by a third party.

Going from memory, when we tried this, what happened was both of us had the in-mission screen come up, but only one of us had our ship appear, when drafted by someone else.

[FireSoul]

Port 47624 is kinda like a management port. It can only be forwarded to 1 machine. usually the pre-designated host for a direct-IP game. Since drafting isn't too keen on that.. and the host is the person draftign all the time, it wouldn't work.

Unless there's somethign else I'm missing here, of course.
-- Luc

[AFortius]

With all these arguments, I am sort of swayed to pick up a copy of OP.  I am playing exclusively EAW in D2 (SG3).  But it seems that I will give OP a try.  Any OP campaign going-on right now ala SG3?  

- AF  

[FireSoul]

TechWars is still ongoing, but it was.. well..
.. everyone's playing on SG3 except for a very small group. Bleh!


.. I hope Techwars is restarted after SG3 is over. I was having fun.

[Bonk]

It seems we only have enough players for one good sized server at a time.
I think that the "ISC Invasion" is next up on EAW and will also draw a crowd.
Perhaps OP admins could join in with the EAW admins in scheduling the servers
to get the best crowds?  

[Mog]

That's the intention, Bonk, however, when the current schedule was arranged, the OP patch hadn't been released - it kinda came as a bit of a surprise, and no rescheduling has been done yet, hence all OP has currently are small servers to keep it going, so to speak.

[FireSoul]

However, continued work will ensure OP's place in the future. With any luck, it will prove to the D2 community that OP is indeed viable.

.. hm.. especially if they play on EAW server for so long that another OP patch would come out and fix all the rest of the issues. That probably won't happen, but it's an interesting thought.

[Dogmatix!]

Quote:
I think there is a rather easy way to settle this point.  Sales.  How many copies of EAW were sold vs OP.  I suspect OP sales were low and encompassed a larger fraction of novices who rarely played it and dumped it considering the low player base for OP.  I myself bought OP after having a friend's install of EAW and SFC1 purchased with my own money on my machine for a while which I had gotten out of.  I stopped playing OP altogether for just the reasons above, no players, no dyna, X ships BS.

While OP might be "better" because it has more "stuff", I still don't think it has a player base especially if sales were low and new copies are hard to come by.  Why hunt around for OP when you already have EAW fully patched with working dyna and consistent player base?

Be that as it may, what has OP really got to offer?  Phaser arcs?  New ships?  Supposed stability?  Oh, yes!  Pirates!  Don't think the whole pirate thing has enough umph, enough meaningful context to be compelling.  Look at player race preferences.  Most played races are TOS races with feds leading substantially. Throw in some pirates no one has ever heard outside of SFB  that are not fully SFB implemented (custumization of ships, etc) and you have a recipe for a yawn.

Doesn't seem like enough to entice me to switch nor most people who have EAW and are comfortable with it.   BTW are magic photons still in effect in OP?

Fact is Taldren shot itself in the foot with OP.  While they may have had the best intentions, the fiasco ruined any transition to OP.  

Hence the reason why I and a few other has been trying to increase sales of OP by offering free copies of OP to anyone who wants one with the proviso that they get on OP D2 and help make it grow any way they can.  To date, I've sent out four free copies.

The OP Dyna is now, a Cleaven says, as good as EAW's.  OP has more features, weapons, ships, race slots, etc.  That makes it the better platform for future growth.  

All OP needs is a commitment from the campaign server groups and the people who play on those cmapaigns to give OP a chance by putting on and playing in a big OP campaign.  I expect SFC2.NET to now look towards OP's dyna as a viable platform.  I hope we will have the cooperation of other groups and individuals moving forward.

I have always been on record as saying OP is potentially the better product, but EAW is more fun because of the far larger player base.  Most of the best dyna campaigns have been on EAW's dyna, but that isn't to say there hasn't been several, VERY COOL campaigns on OP's dyna...and that was before it had been patched up to EAW's specs.  The Triangle series, the Rook's Tavern series...the first two editions in the Slave Girls series.  All wonderful, fun, competitive, long-lived campaigns...and all on OP D2.


Look...most people don't like Taldren's implementation of x-tech.  That is no reason to steer clear of OP.  Most cmpaigns never get to the Advanced Era (unless they start there or close) and any smart campaign author is going to do something that mitigates the x-ships' effect or just not even make them available.  Frankly, x-tech on x-tech battles are quite fun, so what's the fuss?  FireSoul's OP Refit shiplist (quickly becoming THE shiplist for OP dynaplay) takes care of the Taldren X-tech problem by putting in SFB-style x-ships.  This is still being tested, but early results are encouraging.  I found none of the X-ships that I flew or flew against to be anywhere near OTT.  However, the jury is definitely still out and there is work to be done.


Granted, everyone's mileage may vary, but I've always seen more stability on OP dyna servers.  I think the Dyna community would do itself a big favor by getting in there and supporting the OP dyna platform.


I just don't see how anyone can argue that the future of SFC2 D2 isn't (or at least, shouldn't be) on the OP platform.  EAW simply doesn't have anything that OP lacks.  SQL doesn't even enter into the mix for me because none has proven to me that SQL can handle the stress of a big campaign server.  Even now, all big EAW campaigns are run with flatfile databases.


I will continue to support both flavors since both products have a following.  However, I will continue also to try and steer folks towards OP.


 

[FireSoul]

That was well formulated, dogmatix. Very well said.

[**DONOTDELETE**]

Yes, to be correct, the SFB, or X1 ships in OP are pretty close to SFB specs in most cases, but the X2 ships, the "Taldren X ships" are total abortions. They look like the things you used to make in SFB groups for a team of ships to attack.

Silly indeed. Keep it up FS, you really oughta get PAID for the massive amount of work you do and the even LARGER amount of crap you take for doing it!

HAND!
 

[FireSoul]

Well..

.. I *LIKE* this game. .. and I'm hoping I get every possible chance to make it better. You can bet that if I end up making a difference, I got paid in a different way.

.. and trust me on this: SFC:OP's not dead. Not by far. The work continues so that playtime becomes better.

-- Luc