Topic: the defiant sucks

[RAGE Cyberbeer]

The Defiant admitedly is a very tough ship however, it is easy to beat.  With low shield mass and not much armor it has its weaknesses.  I simply tractor them, and beat the hell outta them, I have yet to lose to one of these ships.  With a well refitted ship it should not be a problem.  Try designing not complaining...  

[Alexander1701]

  2 pulse, 2 quantums, level 4 comp, completely remove transporters, put that mass into armor, then just upgrade the core 1 set and fill in your mass with 2-3 up on impulse, and everything else on thrusters. Its invinceable. For fun, I set one like that against a warbird, me in the defiant. I never even took hull damage. Admittedly, the romulan AI needs work, but still. That's pathetic.

Alexander    

[Lepton1]

You can't completely remove transporter. It won't allow such a configuration.  I think you meant to say go with a  trans 1.

[Artie]

Nah dude the patch will just make it cost more. My original post was a veiled attempt at humor. (punches self in groin, crys a little.)  

[3dot14]

Quote:
i mean that dang ship only has 2 pulse phasers, and a 1 in 6 chance of firing a shield piercing shot thats 2 out of 12,

Speaking for the math remark.
The odds of hitting AT LEAST ONE is 11 out of 36. (hitting exactly one is 10/36, hitting two is 1/36)
Almost double of your estimation.
Please don't start calling people "dumbass" before you verify your assertions. It makes you look... well... you get the idea. (it's ok to make mistakes, but don't call other people names for pointing out your mistake.)

Back to topic. HOW GOOD DO YOU WANT IT TO BE?!

Weaponwise- the Klingons (the only other shield penetration weapon) will be hard pressed to mount the polarons on anything less than a feklhr. and you are worrying with two pulse phasers? The pulse is lighting than the Polaron too. It can also mount two quantums in additions to the pulse. It's not powerful enough? For the Romulans, the plasma damage will be measured by the pulse phaser in the patch. i.e. Romulan has to have almost 5 times as long to charge a plasma (I am guessing they mean plasma light?) that does similiar damage with No pentration chance.
In game use- It's already the speed king (with its massive (comparing to other DD/CL's) engine room) it has not rear firing weapon, granted. but who need rear firing when it has a 1.3 maneuver?
Design wise- It has no counter part. As mentioned above, it is the only DW (or maybe NCL) in the game. The Klingon CL is a JOKE gone bad! (Ktinga) The Romulan Shrike has serious engine mass problems. And the Borg has trouble concentrating fire, unlike defiant who can put 7 weapons into the same arc. (in fact, that's the Sovereign has only 6 weapons, 1 less than defiant, firing straight forward!)
As for pulse phaser. You are uncomfortable that it loads slowed than F types? well the other races don't even HAVE such a weapon!

No one comments on Romulan AI don't fire plasmas. Fine. No one comments on the lack of multi-volley for Polaron. (which enables multi-torp-volley Quantums to rule all.) Fine. The Borg warpcore weakness is at least touched on now and then... The Klingon CL (Ktinga) can't fit an extra yogourt dispenser while Defiant is rolling in engine mass. Fine. This game is newbie friendly. Fine. this game is Fed-centric. Fine. But is that not ENOUGH ALREADY!

And it's in turn, a Federation ship crying foul!
Why is it the Federation always is convinced that there are things afoot to destroy the Feds?
While in fact the races that ARE screwed wordlessly deal with their problems?

Fine. Fine. It is SFC3. I am calm. I am calm... It's SFC3. I am calm...

So how much better exactly does the defiant need to be?
 

[mathcubeguy]

I only fly dreadnaughts because of the Mini-bar. Now I can get that on the Defiant? Wowie!  

[Alexander1701]

  I apologize for the lack of clarity, level one is what I was attempting to imply. The reason I do this is because you will never effectively use transport until you have it at level 5, therefore you are as well off without it.

Alexander  

[APEXNETHOR]

There is no doubt that the Defiant packs a mean punch in it forward weapons array for a CL class. And by putting more prestige into increasing the defiant's thruster and impulse power the ship is quite a lil nimbe bastard thats for sure.  

[Alexander1701]

 

Quote:
  For the Romulans, the plasma damage will be measured by the pulse phaser in the patch. i.e. Romulan has to have almost 5 times as long to charge a plasma (I am guessing they mean plasma light?) that does similiar damage with No pentration chance.

  This is only partially accurate. The rate of decay will be equal between them (averaging out the current difference), however, the plasma torpedo will continue to do considerably more damage, only now, on those rare occasions it does hit, it will do a small amount more damage, whereas you will have to be nearly on top of someone (not difficult with defiant) to actually do good damage with the pulse phasers. Though I may be wrong. The patch updates have been hazy at best. We will have to wait and see.

Alexander  

[Aliasalpha]

For overpowering, try loading the Defiant up with 4 Antimatter minelayers and going up against a slower ship, really eats the hull away if you lay all 4 in a cluster

[Blitzkrieg]

Whats worse is people who use that configuration plus strong engines and tractors to completely decimate almost any ship. Most ships become either crippled or 'heavily' damaged in one pass of 4 amm's. Now there is nothing more cheesy than that!

[3dot14]

Quote:
This is only partially accurate. The rate of decay will be equal between them (averaging out the current difference), however, the plasma torpedo will continue to do considerably more damage, only now, on those rare occasions it does hit, it will do a small amount more damage, whereas you will have to be nearly on top of someone (not difficult with defiant) to actually do good damage with the pulse phasers. Though I may be wrong. The patch updates have been hazy at best. We will have to wait and see.

Alexander

23) Reduced strength of the pulse phaser over range and brought the plasma torpedoes in line with the new pulse phaser numbers.
I re-read the item in the mythical patch list. and it seems you might be right. The Decay is about the same.
However, I still maintain pulse is better than plasma over time. Pulse can be fired 3 times for every one plasma. (not 5 as I previously guessed. and I am not afraid to admit my math mistakes.)
Pulse can do theorectical 24 points (three times 8) for evey one plasma torp (L/M/H=11/15/20) Not even close.

And remember in the next patch the degradation will be matched (if your interpretation is correct.) so the defiant can forever hold the the pulse phasers over romulans' heads.

And two of them is not enough for defiant?! Pulleez!

Cyberbeer has a point. It is a rather fragile ship. However if it's piloted by a player of equal skill as the tractor-ship, it will be very hard to get the defaint in tractor range. (It's like telling the R-WB+, "easy, you just tractor that D5, and shove down plasR.") And furthermore, the tractoring ship has to be considerably bigger than defiant, (at least a CA, if not BC) to survive such an exchange. (be cause of the weapon arcs. defiant has all 7 the same direction, while the tractoring ship has to spin to bring all weapons to bear)

[Cruis.In]

3dot14, I actuallly did not call anyone a dumbass. go and come again.

any numbers i put down was something off the top of my head, not to be concrete.

but it seems to be that if a pulse phaser has a 1/10 (post patch) chance of doing a shield penetrating shot, that is a also a 2/10 chance and further a 4/40 chance. not so? that is what I meant, someone clearly did not understand where i was coming from before they started talking about maths.

defiant might have 7 spots for weapons, but with 1150 mass that could never compare to the sovereign.

peace.

[Blitzkrieg]

But you see, your using probabilities which are maths. Further more 1/10, 2/20 and 4/40 are the same thing, therefore I was meaning to say you dont appear to have a clear grasp of what you are saying. Quite clearly, your use of probabilities, suck, unlike the defiant, which rules. It may not compair to a sovereign but hey for a CL we are talking about probably the most deadly ship of that class.

If you wont accept my half assed appology, too bad. I only make them once, if you want to go around spouting utter clap trap which clearly most people think is just that, then expect them to tell you so.

[Alexander1701]

Quote:
 defiant might have 7 spots for weapons, but with 1150 mass that could never compare to the sovereign.

  See, THIS is exactly the problem. There should be no comparison between the third class of ship and the seventh! I mean, it would be like comparing a borg diamond with a sphere prime! But the fact is that while the rating of the ships may go, from lowest to highest, Sabre-Norway-Defiant-Intrepid-Excelsior-Nebula-Galaxy-Sovereign, the actualy abilities of the ships is more like Sabre-Norway-INTREPID-Excelsior-Nebula-DEFIANT-Galaxy-Sovereign.

Alexander  

[kevlar]

Quote:

Quote:
 defiant might have 7 spots for weapons, but with 1150 mass that could never compare to the sovereign.

  See, THIS is exactly the problem. There should be no comparison between the third class of ship and the seventh! I mean, it would be like comparing a borg diamond with a sphere prime! But the fact is that while the rating of the ships may go, from lowest to highest, Sabre-Norway-Defiant-Intrepid-Excelsior-Nebula-Galaxy-Sovereign, the actualy abilities of the ships is more like Sabre-Norway-INTREPID-Excelsior-Nebula-DEFIANT-Galaxy-Sovereign.

Alexander    

You forgot the akira that normally gives me more problems than a nebula, excelsior, intrepid and defiant in the hands of a good player. But the idea is right. If anyone thinks that the defiant sucks just try the other races counterparts, like the good old k'tinga to see a light cruiser - because PEOPLE DO FORGET THAT THE DEFIANT IS A LIGHT CRUISER- that really sucks.

For it's cost,mass and weapons the defiant is clearly the best CL in the game.  

[Aenigma]

The only drawback to a Defiant is that the Romulan Shrike looks a lot better  

I mean you'll still have to watch the rear-end of a defiant, which is probably the most ugly there is (except for borg of course, but their ships don't have 'rear' ends in their ship design). No wonder some people do think the defiant sucks and needs improvement. Taldren could you please improve the looks of the defiant rear-end??



HAHAHAHA just joking a bit about the uber-CL that is called the  Defiant    

[KBF-Dogmatix]

Quote:

Quote:
i mean that dang ship only has 2 pulse phasers, and a 1 in 6 chance of firing a shield piercing shot thats 2 out of 12,

<snip>

No one comments on Romulan AI don't fire plasmas. Fine. No one comments on the lack of multi-volley for Polaron. (which enables multi-torp-volley Quantums to rule all.) Fine. The Borg warpcore weakness is at least touched on now and then... The Klingon CL (Ktinga) can't fit an extra yogourt dispenser while Defiant is rolling in engine mass. Fine. This game is newbie friendly. Fine. this game is Fed-centric. Fine. But is that not ENOUGH ALREADY!

And it's in turn, a Federation ship crying foul!
Why is it the Federation always is convinced that there are things afoot to destroy the Feds?
While in fact the races that ARE screwed wordlessly deal with their problems?

Fine. Fine. It is SFC3. I am calm. I am calm... It's SFC3. I am calm...

So how much better exactly does the defiant need to be?
   

Well, I wouldn't say "no one."  I've been railing about Fed advantages (especially weapons...quantum vs. polaron, the initially undocumented shield bleed through on pulse phasers...another FED ONLY weapon) since the first week of SFC3's release...hehehe.  I haven't been alone, either.  

Funny someone should actually assert that the best CL in the game sucks.  If it does...what does that say about every other CL in the game?


 

[Thanos1]

Quote:
 

Funny someone should actually assert that the best CL in the game sucks.  If it does...what does that say about every other CL in the game?

What?!?! You mean there are OTHER ships besides Fed?

-suleo  

[Thanos1]

Quote:


but it seems to be that if a pulse phaser has a 1/10 (post patch) chance of doing a shield penetrating shot, that is a also a 2/10 chance and further a 4/40 chance. not so? that is what I meant, someone clearly did not understand where i was coming from before they started talking about maths.

Pulse phaser shield piercing chance: 1/6. Call this P
2 pulse phasers in the defiant. Chance of a shield piercing shot is NOT 2/12. Why? because:

Chance of a shield piercing hit = {P(A) * (1-P(B))} + {(1-P(A)) * P(B)} + {P(A) * P(B)} = 5/36 + 5/36 +1/36 = 11/36.

In other words, chance of a shield piercing hit  = (A hits AND B misses) OR (A misses AND B hits) OR (A hits AND B hits)


Sorry for the math, but just had to jump in

-suleo