Topic: the defiant sucks  (Read 16008 times)

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Cruis.In

  • Guest
the defiant sucks
« on: January 28, 2003, 06:02:43 pm »
As I much as I like the idea of the Defiant. it just plain sucks,

with only 3 places for primary for weapons that bites...and with pulse phasers going to be nerfed in the upcoming patch even more thats worse. i mean that dang ship only has 2 pulse phasers, and a 1 in 6 chance of firing a shield piercing shot thats 2 out of 12, and they take way longer to recharge than a phaser type F.

so as much as i like the lil ship, it sucks in this game.

Blitzkrieg

  • Guest
Re: the defiant sucks
« Reply #1 on: January 28, 2003, 06:07:33 pm »
lol the defiant dosnt suck but your maths does, its actually one of the most cheese ships in the game imo.

Alexander1701

  • Guest
Re: the defiant sucks
« Reply #2 on: January 28, 2003, 06:09:56 pm »
  I would beg to differ. The defiant is the best DD in the game. While I rarely play Federation, I have known Federation players to keep a defiant class for extended periods, often circumventing the Intrepid, the Excelsior, and sometimes even the Akira and Nebula. This ship is powerful in that is has forward arcs in excess of most other federation ships, combined with the maneuverability and power to pull it off. On one of my few endeavors in Federation play, I have used the defiant to single handedly kill two human klingon CCs. It is likely because it flies in a similar fashion to a well-outfitted romulan ship that I was able to have this level of profieciency, but it is still a formidable DD. This is what I think of when I ask myself what romulan ships should resemble.

Alexander
 
« Last Edit: January 28, 2003, 06:54:11 pm by Alexander1701 »

Vysander

  • Guest
Re: the defiant sucks
« Reply #3 on: January 28, 2003, 06:11:43 pm »
fast manueverable defiant + quantums + legendary officers = blown up enemy ship

I hate that ship with a passion after flying a torpedo boat version of it.  Load, get in reasonably close (this part isn't required either), fire, leave a smouldering wreck behind, repeat.

 

Blitzkrieg

  • Guest
Re: the defiant sucks
« Reply #4 on: January 28, 2003, 06:19:09 pm »
Yeah that was a much more diplomatic way of saying it, either Ive been playing Klingon a lot recently or Ive had e few beers, maybe both.

Artie

  • Guest
Re: the defiant sucks
« Reply #5 on: January 28, 2003, 06:32:45 pm »
Oh yeah, having the most forward facing heavy weapon mounts isn't enough.  The reason the patch is taking so long is because Taldren is having problems  instaling the two rear heavy mounts, more engine mass, and a mini-bar for the Defiant. ;

Firestorm

  • Guest
Re: the defiant sucks
« Reply #6 on: January 28, 2003, 07:07:02 pm »
Defiant = cheeze

Alexander1701

  • Guest
Re: the defiant sucks
« Reply #7 on: January 28, 2003, 07:21:30 pm »
  my, what fascinating similes we use...  

jdmckinney

  • Guest
Re: the defiant sucks
« Reply #8 on: January 29, 2003, 09:06:06 am »
As someone I know would say if he were to post here, THE DEFIANT IS NOT A DD.

It is classed as a CL, and probably falls somewhere in between the DD and CL categories -- in SFB it would be a War Destroyer, which most would recognize is generally superior to a stock CL in firepower, but weaker in hull. That description fits the Defiant to a T.

The ship is an attrition unit -- cheap to build (in the game, that means cheap to buy and readily available at the shipyard) but packed with weapons. It is a perfect ship for those who like to be able to deal a lot of damage, fly fast, and out-maneuver their opponents, all while staying competitive with CA-sized ships at a fraction of the price. The only thing wrong with it is the other races don't really have an equivalent design.

I don't agree with its hardpoint layout, specifically having more heavy hardpoints than primary ones, but I gather Taldren is standing firm on this mistake (their decision). Otherwise, it is an ideal vessel for the role it should, and does, play.

Aenigma

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Re: the defiant sucks
« Reply #9 on: January 29, 2003, 09:18:05 am »
Let's just say the defiant is comparable to the shrike in aesthetics and speed, but it punches a lot harder.

Aenigma  

Cruis.In

  • Guest
Re: the defiant sucks
« Reply #10 on: January 29, 2003, 09:36:04 pm »
what has my maths got to do with it. that was a dumbass remark. either say something constructive or dont say anything at all.

ALexander, whats the configuration that you like on the defiant?

Artie? there making more changes to this ship? more engine mass, i guess would allow for more maneuverability or warp power.

EE

  • Guest
Re: the defiant sucks
« Reply #11 on: January 29, 2003, 09:44:46 pm »
Quote:

what has my maths got to do with it. that was a dumbass remark. either say something constructive or dont say anything at all.

ALexander, whats the configuration that you like on the defiant?

Artie? there making more changes to this ship? more engine mass, i guess would allow for more maneuverability or warp power.  




Your math has a lot to do with it because you apparently cannot add 1 and 1.

The Defiant is simply the most powerful CL in the game. It has the forward firepower of a CA, it outclasses the CL's of every other race in every way,  be it on the bridge, hull, engines, heavies or primaries and it costs less. ( pre patch ).  

RAGE Cyberbeer

  • Guest
Re: the defiant sucks
« Reply #12 on: January 29, 2003, 09:55:30 pm »
The Defiant admitedly is a very tough ship however, it is easy to beat.  With low shield mass and not much armor it has its weaknesses.  I simply tractor them, and beat the hell outta them, I have yet to lose to one of these ships.  With a well refitted ship it should not be a problem.  Try designing not complaining...  

Alexander1701

  • Guest
Re: the defiant sucks
« Reply #13 on: January 29, 2003, 10:05:02 pm »
  2 pulse, 2 quantums, level 4 comp, completely remove transporters, put that mass into armor, then just upgrade the core 1 set and fill in your mass with 2-3 up on impulse, and everything else on thrusters. Its invinceable. For fun, I set one like that against a warbird, me in the defiant. I never even took hull damage. Admittedly, the romulan AI needs work, but still. That's pathetic.

Alexander
   

Lepton1

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Re: the defiant sucks
« Reply #14 on: January 29, 2003, 10:09:29 pm »
You can't completely remove transporter. It won't allow such a configuration.  I think you meant to say go with a  trans 1.

Artie

  • Guest
Re: the defiant sucks
« Reply #15 on: January 29, 2003, 10:45:37 pm »
Nah dude the patch will just make it cost more. My original post was a veiled attempt at humor. (punches self in groin, crys a little.)  

3dot14

  • Guest
Re: the defiant sucks
« Reply #16 on: January 29, 2003, 10:50:35 pm »
Quote:

i mean that dang ship only has 2 pulse phasers, and a 1 in 6 chance of firing a shield piercing shot thats 2 out of 12,



Speaking for the math remark.
The odds of hitting AT LEAST ONE is 11 out of 36. (hitting exactly one is 10/36, hitting two is 1/36)
Almost double of your estimation.
Please don't start calling people "dumbass" before you verify your assertions. It makes you look... well... you get the idea. (it's ok to make mistakes, but don't call other people names for pointing out your mistake.)

Back to topic. HOW GOOD DO YOU WANT IT TO BE?!

Weaponwise- the Klingons (the only other shield penetration weapon) will be hard pressed to mount the polarons on anything less than a feklhr. and you are worrying with two pulse phasers? The pulse is lighting than the Polaron too. It can also mount two quantums in additions to the pulse. It's not powerful enough? For the Romulans, the plasma damage will be measured by the pulse phaser in the patch. i.e. Romulan has to have almost 5 times as long to charge a plasma (I am guessing they mean plasma light?) that does similiar damage with No pentration chance.
In game use- It's already the speed king (with its massive (comparing to other DD/CL's) engine room) it has not rear firing weapon, granted. but who need rear firing when it has a 1.3 maneuver?
Design wise- It has no counter part. As mentioned above, it is the only DW (or maybe NCL) in the game. The Klingon CL is a JOKE gone bad! (Ktinga) The Romulan Shrike has serious engine mass problems. And the Borg has trouble concentrating fire, unlike defiant who can put 7 weapons into the same arc. (in fact, that's the Sovereign has only 6 weapons, 1 less than defiant, firing straight forward!)
As for pulse phaser. You are uncomfortable that it loads slowed than F types? well the other races don't even HAVE such a weapon!

No one comments on Romulan AI don't fire plasmas. Fine. No one comments on the lack of multi-volley for Polaron. (which enables multi-torp-volley Quantums to rule all.) Fine. The Borg warpcore weakness is at least touched on now and then... The Klingon CL (Ktinga) can't fit an extra yogourt dispenser while Defiant is rolling in engine mass. Fine. This game is newbie friendly. Fine. this game is Fed-centric. Fine. But is that not ENOUGH ALREADY!

And it's in turn, a Federation ship crying foul!
Why is it the Federation always is convinced that there are things afoot to destroy the Feds?
While in fact the races that ARE screwed wordlessly deal with their problems?

Fine. Fine. It is SFC3. I am calm. I am calm... It's SFC3. I am calm...

So how much better exactly does the defiant need to be?
 

mathcubeguy

  • Guest
Re: the defiant sucks
« Reply #17 on: January 29, 2003, 10:53:26 pm »
I only fly dreadnaughts because of the Mini-bar. Now I can get that on the Defiant? Wowie!  

Alexander1701

  • Guest
Re: the defiant sucks
« Reply #18 on: January 30, 2003, 12:27:26 am »
  I apologize for the lack of clarity, level one is what I was attempting to imply. The reason I do this is because you will never effectively use transport until you have it at level 5, therefore you are as well off without it.

Alexander
 

APEXNETHOR

  • Guest
Re: the defiant sucks
« Reply #19 on: January 30, 2003, 12:30:04 am »
There is no doubt that the Defiant packs a mean punch in it forward weapons array for a CL class. And by putting more prestige into increasing the defiant's thruster and impulse power the ship is quite a lil nimbe bastard thats for sure.