Topic: Prestige Awards in SG3 Test

[Green]

Dizzy,

I've noticed this being stated in various threads.  The PP payoff is very low for the difficulty of the missions.  What was the reasoning for the lower settings?

There has been a LOT of discussion on balance (which is fine) but I don't see how a low PP payout is a good thing.  Especially if there is a strong desire by campaign developers to increase the difficulty of the missions (which i don't mind).

But I do think there is nothing wrong with getting a good payoff for a difficult mission.  150 is not sufficient.  A low PP payout will:

1.  Prevent players from being able to more easily replace that tub they just lost to some Evil (Place Name Here) mission.

2.  Prevent weekend players from upgrading.  It will not do anything to keep nutters from upgrading.  Trust me, Fluf will be in a CVA+ as soon as they are produced regardless of payouts..

3.  Increase complaints about BPV, ship costs, drone costs, PF costs, fighter costs, and mission difficulty.

4.  Slowly see players stop playing after they have been dumped into a freighter that they have no way of getting out of.


If the goal behind lower payoffs is to prevent everyone (mostly) jumping into a DN or BB, you have already handled that problem with your CnC rules.  If the goal is to prevent everyone from being able to buy as many Battle Stations as they want, then make the prices of those things very high.

Just suggestions.  Thanks.

[Karnak]

Quote:
But I do think there is nothing wrong with getting a good payoff for a difficult mission. 150 is not sufficient. A low PP payout will:

The lowest PP payout for a victory in the cheapest Karnak mission is 300pp (one of the patrols). Convoys can get you about 700 pp and Fleet Actions can get you 900pp.  Also, you get 120pp per capture so you can turn a simple patrol mission into a 540pp payoff if you capture the two enemy AI. I purposely kept lotsa Frigate class vessels on some missions (Kar_hPatrol is a good example) so you can go for the quick capture grab early in the mission.  Not only do you quickly lower you odds, get more PP, but you give the enemy AI something else to shoot at.

 Lotsa times you can get 4 to 1 odds in your favor on EEK Convoy Escort missions and grab an easy 700 pp for about 4 to 6 minutes work.  If that's not playing PP santa claus then I don't know what is, hehe.

Both the Kar_hPatrol (Defensive Action Patrol) and Kar_ConvoyEscort missions are found in home/allied space.  Of course, it gets harder as you hit Neutral or Enemy space.

[Green]

I can confirm what you are saying Karnak.  A couple of examples:

The Met_TG1AlPtrlB (which I think is one of yours) paid 300+399.  It was a 3v3 (with fair balance for an evil mission).  Cost to repair/resupply was 305.

A Met_TG1AlPtrlA (forgot who wrote it) is a fairly straight-forward 1v1 that paid 150+85.  I'm not sure why I got an 85 bonus, but I believe the concerns are on the PtrlA and the 150 pay out.  Normally, players spend 150+ to repair/resupply after the mission.

I'll keep looking at 'em.  I know this is only a test dyna but it is still fun to fart around with the Tholian ships and all of the missions.

[Karnak]

Quote:
I can confirm what you are saying Karnak.  A couple of examples:

The Met_TG1AlPtrlB (which I think is one of yours) paid 300+399.  It was a 3v3 (with fair balance for an evil mission).  Cost to repair/resupply was 305.

Met_TG1AlPtrlB => TraceyG's Allied Patrol B.  

Quote:


A Met_TG1AlPtrlA (forgot who wrote it) is a fairly straight-forward 1v1 that paid 150+85.  I'm not sure why I got an 85 bonus, but I believe the concerns are on the PtrlA and the 150 pay out.  Normally, players spend 150+ to repair/resupply after the mission.

I'll keep looking at 'em.  I know this is only a test dyna but it is still fun to fart around with the Tholian ships and all of the missions.  

Met_TG1AlPtrlA  => TraceyG's Allied Patrol A.

All my missions start with "Kar_".   A 3v3 mission of mine is Skirmish Action (ie. Kar_SkirmishAction) which will pay min. 400 pp for a simple victory.   Capture all 3 enemy AI and you have:  400pp + (3 * 120pp) = 760 pp.

[Green]

Thanks for the quick decipher (though it was intuative, and I should have seen that).  

I think the concerns I've heard so far deal with Dave's missions payouts (don't throw anything at me Dave).  The missions, all of them, are fine.  Comments of BPV adjustments yada yada aside.  They are all working well.

In a Karnak mission I am getting extactly what you noted above.  I also make sure I always go for at least 1 capture (which is about all a Tholian can do with a 12 marine max).  On your ePatrols, I've been getting 300 PP and usually a 120 bonus.  My repair/resupply costs make the total around 290 net gain.  Though I don't have fighters or drones to replace the 20 T-bombs, 12 marines, and normally 10+ spares (they are a close-in fighting race) do cost some (~100-170).

In Tracey's missions, the payoff is a little lighter, she has explained her forumula previously.  We're getting the base 150, and then her weird formula for blowing stuff up and not getting our stuff blown up.  I still think it is a little stingy (she must need the money for shoes - gotta have at least 10 pairs of nearly identical black shoes after all).  If your AI bud happens to get the kill shots then the payoffs start going down due to reduced bonuses.

Dave's missions are the culprit (boo boo evil dave).  He's giving 270 but when resupply/repairs come into play the net gain is pretty small (had a couple of 25 point net games).

I don't believe mission payoffs are something that a server setting can adjust.  I don't want to see any of the missions removed (variety is nice).  But I do believe server settings can adjust the frequency that you see certain missions.  That being the case, how about a bump on the number of karnak's?  Specifically the ePatrol which is a good replacement for the stock Patrol.    

[FPF_TraceyG]

 

Patrol A  
• Astounding Victory Award: 300 pp  
• Victory Award: 150 pp  

 

Patrol B  
• Astounding Victory Award: 500 pp  
• Victory Award: 300 pp  

plus whatever you get for bonus prestige.
Each mission has two goals. Acheiving the Primary Objective, gets you a Victory. Acheiving both Primary and Secondary objectives gets you an Astounding Victory. The only problem, is that I haven't done the Secondary objectives yet...    

[Dizzy]

hehe...

Any chance on that being changed anytime soon, Tracey?

[JMM]

Errrm, Karnak, ur fleet actions on the homeworlds on Koth server brought 1200 k a pop! You think it was a secret why the alliance had so much pp on that server? It all depends on ur allies too, on the Lyran front, I was drafting Hydran allies and I was Mirak, talk about a bloodbath! Even with 9-4 or 9-5 odds in their favor, it was so cool watching the Lyrans get cut up by all the fighters and Hydrans, while I slowly picked off the heavies one by one.. No captures needed as well. 1200 pp for an avg 5 minute mission, not too bad...  

[Karnak]

Quote:
Errrm, Karnak, ur fleet actions on the homeworlds on Koth server brought 1200 k a pop! You think it was a secret why the alliance had so much pp on that server? It all depends on ur allies too, on the Lyran front, I was drafting Hydran allies and I was Mirak, talk about a bloodbath! Even with 9-4 or 9-5 odds in their favor, it was so cool watching the Lyrans get cut up by all the fighters and Hydrans, while I slowly picked off the heavies one by one.. No captures needed as well. 1200 pp for an avg 5 minute mission, not too bad...  

Yeah, I did not want to say anything during LB3 but I had bug in that fleet action mission. The Astounding Victory and simple Victory code was in reverse.  The 1200pp is meant for people that win against 3 to 1 odds otherwise you get 900pp.  So, you'll only get 900pp now for a simple victory in my Fleet Actions which only appear within 2 hexes of any planet.  

I was wondering why Fluf was saying that 1200pp was a good reward for a big furball and licking his chops with most supreme feline satisfaction.

[Green]

Thanks for the explainations oh evil ones.  It does help to better understand the issues with the payout.  I do think Karnak's payoffs are about right (except for the 1200!!!).  Whenever you add the secondary objectives Tracey (cap a ship?) then they will be close to each other.

Now to get the stingy Evil-one (Dave) to adjust his money pit missions.  

[Dizzy]

evil bump!