Topic: BPV bumps for drone ships?? (Read 8955 times)

Matsukasi · « **Reply #40 on:** May 20, 2003, 09:54:20 am »

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Dizzy, I love the concept and apriceate all the work you put in but your BPVs on your ships are wrong and they are drasticly efecting game play.
deadmansix

Again, the BPV's in this game are fairly standard. I increased carriers and Drone bombardment ships. Thats it.

Whatever aside from that you are seeing has nothing to do with my shiplist.

Again, the Drone bombardment ships are drawing too high AI, agreed, Ill look into this further...

Please stop 'generalizing' that the entire BPV part of the shiplist has been altered, it hasnt. The BPV's are accurate according to the ship with the exception of the 2x types listed above.

For the record, you altered BPVs on quite a few ships other than " carriers and drone bombardment " variants.

The Mirak DW went up 20 points, and that's HARDLY a drone bombardment ship.

The CC+ ( which btw is the same exact ship as the CC ... which went up 18 points and isn't a drone bombardment ship either ) went up 23 points.

CCH , 17 points.

NCA , 22 points.

< picks up dead horse and pulls it off of the info superhighway >

Dizzy · « **Reply #41 on:** May 20, 2003, 11:38:58 am »

The DW has no increase. It is 108 BPV. That is the correct BPV for that ship. Any other BPV on any other shiplist is wrong.

I think I posted which mirak ships were boosted and by how much.

Ill take under advisement your objections and lower the bump for the Drone Bombbardment ships. The other ships reflect their true BPV, however.

And I dont have a negative slant towards the Mirak.

I want to make sure you have a shiplist that is fun for you. Obviously you are not happy. So something needs to be done. But I'll not drop the bump entirely. The bump on thos type ships has been discussed since custom shiplists first started being talked about...

Matsukasi · « **Reply #42 on:** May 20, 2003, 12:13:51 pm »

I'm using the stock shiplist to compare, Diz. What shiplist are you using for comparison?

Fluf · « **Reply #44 on:** May 20, 2003, 01:20:00 pm »

Just a short comparison,

DF+
Stock Taldren = 80
OP Taldren =80
EAW 1.03 =85
OP+2.1c =75
SG3 =127

DW
Stock Taldren = 87
OP Taldren =87
EAW 1.03 =91
OP+2.1c =87
SG3 =108

DWD
Stock Taldren = 86
OP Taldren =86
EAW 1.03 =90
OP+2.1c =86
SG3 =111

MCC
Stock Taldren = 124
OP Taldren =129
EAW 1.03 =128
OP+2.1c =130
SG3 =145

CC
Stock Taldren = 140
OP Taldren =140
EAW 1.03 =149
OP+ 2.1c =135
SG3 =158

CCH
Stock Taldren = 153
OP Taldren =153
EAW 1.03 = 157
OP+ 2.1c =153
SG3 = 170

Dizzy, as you can see its not only the drone bombardment ships the Kzin are worried about. This happened to 30 out of 51 ships in your list. Apparantly anything that had a B or C rack got bumped really good.

KOTH-Steel Claw · « **Reply #45 on:** May 20, 2003, 01:34:32 pm »

The Z-MCC and the F-CLC were match ups I see a lot of on D2 play in PvP. The F-CLC actually dropped 2 points from the stock EAW BPV, while getting a bump in min marines by 4.

mbday · « **Reply #46 on:** May 20, 2003, 03:27:05 pm »

While I must say that now I'm getting worried that we will never get this server going at all. At lest not with this ship list.
I mean look at every this is not fair this is not right. Why not every one post what they think there favort ship should be like and we use them. But rememerb every one elsa has to think they are ok as well.

I mean look so far some one has had something to say about every races ships. So eather we redo every thing and wait 2 or 3 weeks more before the server can start becuase every one whats to play test all the ships. I have no problem with this but I have stayed off other servers for this one and I need a campaign now not 3 weeks from now.

Just me rambling sorry about that.

Cocomoe · « **Reply #48 on:** May 20, 2003, 06:16:56 pm »

DIzzy, who cares doe what you think is best and leave it at that.

You will not make everyone happy so don't try to.

Cocomoe

Dizzy · « **Reply #49 on:** May 20, 2003, 07:10:12 pm »

Matsukasi.. I know what happened...!!!

The stock shiplist has -BPV modifiers... SG3 does not. SG3 lists just about every ship in terms of true BPV.

The BPV's matchup (vary maybe 1-3 BPV points) when comparing the SG3 and EAW stock shiplists when you take away the EAW and SG3 BPV - or + modifiers. This phenomenon happens most exclusively with drone ships...

Ok, here's what I'll do. I'll entirely drop my Drone BPV bumps, but I think we need to leave the Carrier bumps in place. Carrier BPV has never taken into account their fighter/PF loadouts.

I think will solve the problems...

Scipio_66 · « **Reply #50 on:** May 20, 2003, 07:47:40 pm »

There is a flip side to this arguement, of course. Let's look at the DF with slow drones:
Lists at..........74
Draws AI of....74
Firepower of...74

To counter this the Gorn would use a DD+
Lists at..........74
Draws AI of....74
Firepower of...74

As eras progress, now let's take that matchup to fast drones. The DF+ :
Lists at...........80
Draws AI of.....80
Firepower of..117

To get the firepower of this DF, the Gorn would move up to an HDD+
Lists as........117 (and gets a higher hull class price modifier)
Draws AI of...117
Firepower of..117

This has always been true, and is a big reason behind the call for more late-era drone defense in the eastern powers.

But I'll second Cocomoe. Dizzy, check your BPV settings for inadvertant errors, and then do what you feel best.

-S'Cipio

Green · « **Reply #52 on:** May 20, 2003, 08:42:49 pm »

Ack. Spent two (okay, one and a half) successful days not responding to this thread. Well, thats not true, I have actually made three previous posts, but backed out before hitting continue ... but its the thought that counts. Right? But I've broken down, forgive me. Oh, and I'm positive my fellow Kzin will get a hunting party up shortly for me.

There has been a lot of focus on the DF. Unfortunately that drone boat has (IMO) caused the bigger discussion of the BPV bumps for drones/fighters to be misunderstood.

I do not like the DF, but that is one cat's opinion. It is liked by others. Same holds true for the MDC. But it isn't the BPV of the DF that has raised concerns but rather all of the ships that use drones or fighters (I don't like fighters either, but that is a different thread. And yes, the Patriarch does require me to go to weekly psycho sessions to try to fix my brain).

I want to point out that Dizzy is willing to drop all bumps to drone equipped ships and I assume subtractions also (unless you were sarcastic Dizzy, in which case 6th letter / 21st letter

) except for the carriers. I admit, I don't think the carriers should go through the same hell hole, but whatever, maybe a different thread. One thing I do know is I like playing different shiplists (man, FireSoul's was sooo cool, got me hooked further into the D2). If this results in a new shiplist that might be used in the future. Good.

A server admin has the right ... yes, I said friggin right ... to select their shiplist. But the server admin also knows that the more extreme the change the greater chance of fewer players showing, which, I imagine (since I ain't got the brains to do one of my own) that has got to suck after putting so much effort into it.

Dizzy, I have no bloody idea what shiplist you'll end up with. I don't believe the current one is right and that adjustments down in BPV are needed ... more towards AOTK or even satock (except for the DF

). Nor do I think drones or fighters should be penalized as much as they are. But whatever it ends up being, yes I'll play on it. As a Mirak. And if I end up in a freighter thinking "that friggin SOB" then so be it. There will be another D2 with another shiplist and other missions and ya know what ... I'll be playing on those also.

Right. And another thing is ... nah, I better shut-up. I'm in enough trouble as is now. Hmmm ... now to hit the continue button ... lets see

Edit: Allen, I fart in your general direction.

warsears

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Karnak

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Dizzy

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