Topic: BPV bumps for drone ships?? (Read 9625 times)

Dizzy · « **Reply #20 on:** May 20, 2003, 12:09:30 am »

Fluff here is the breakdown of the shiplist for the ship type and the increase or decrease in BPV:

bc -14
bc+ -7
bch -18
bcv 11
bf 0
cc 0
cc+ 0
cch 0
cd 0
cd+ 0
clv 29
clv+ 12
cm 0
cm+ 0
cs 0
cv 9
cva 22
cve 10
cve+ 0
cvs 10
cvs+ -9
dd -5
dd+ -15
ddv 29
df 39
df+ 40
dn 0
dn 0
dne 0
dnh 0
dw 0
dwd 0
dwe 0
dwl 0
dwv 0
ff 2
ff+ 0
ffk 6
ffk+ 0
fh 4
fh+ 12
flg -6
mcc 0
mcc+ 10
mcv 35
mdc 35
mdc+ 29
mec 0
mecd 0
nca 0
ncc -5

265 total bump to reflect loadouts and fighter equips.
Overall a 5 point increase per mirak ship.
individual average for only those increased/decreased is: 10

These are straight bpv values. Some of the ships you listed as being bumped, Fluf, actually may have been decreased on AOTK. But on this shiplist, their true BPV is listed. The list above shows only wether or not an increase or decrease happened.

I hope this helps to show that the 90% majority of "bumps" is due to loadout issues concerning AI imbalance issues.

There are several related matters to be taken into effect. Drone/Fighter and PF costs will be reduced due to lower mission payouts. Mission dificulty will be reduced through the AI multiplier. Curently I think its set at 1.15 or 1.10. Personally, I remember flying a Luran BC and NEVER ran into a Hydran ship that wasnt a DN. That just sucked, but now it should be fixed.

KATChuutRitt · « **Reply #21 on:** May 20, 2003, 12:16:29 am »

Dizzy could you list the BPVs with your list for comparisons?

and + 40 bpv for a frigate is obsurd in my opinion no matter what the reasoning.

Dizzy · « **Reply #22 on:** May 20, 2003, 12:22:11 am »

Consider 12 missiles in the air with 6 more 3 seconds away from being launched... Thats 18 heavy type 4's targeting one ship.

I will not go soft on Bombardment ships... Question is how much of an increase in BPV will they get. Remember, BPV ONLY is used for AI matchups. Nothing more...

Oh, and lets not forget the horrendous AI drone defense....

Fluf · « **Reply #23 on:** May 20, 2003, 12:34:59 am »

Dizzy I think you must be thinking about the old missions. AI drone defense has been improved. And we are not flying 1v1 anymore in these missions. Yes the DF+ can put out 12 drones in a wave vs one ship. I tried that last night in a Dave Sector Assault. I launched a wave and followed it in, tractored the L-BC and not one drone out of 12 hit. But the 12 PF+'s I drew in the mission with the 3 L-BC's sure didnt miss. I was dead in less than 2 minutes. Basically, what you are doing is removing these drone bombardment ships from play, as the players will not be able to use them with the mission packs we have now. This will not make the Kzin happy at all, but I will let them speak on that, as its not my place.

I have just got done talking to Karnak too, and lowering the difficulty on the server side will not affect his missions. They trigger off the mct of the campaign and off the BPV of the ship you are flying. So no matter what you do with the difficulty setting in the MetaMap.GF, his missions will trigger off the BPV of your ship, or 1.5 times your BPV. Many of Daves missions do the same thing as with Traceys.

Also the Excel comparison I sent you were compared from the stock Taldren shiplist and yours, not AOTK or CaptJeffs EAW list. Is that above list your new listing of changes that you propose? Im with Chuut there, +40 BPV on a frigate just isnt right lol.

Rob Cole · « **Reply #24 on:** May 20, 2003, 12:36:31 am »

Quote:

Consider 12 missiles in the air with 6 more 3 seconds away from being launched... Thats 18 heavy type 4's targeting one ship.

I will not go soft on Bombardment ships... Question is how much of an increase in BPV will they get. Remember, BPV ONLY is used for AI matchups. Nothing more...

Oh, and lets not forget the horrendous AI drone defense....

But thats the whole point dork,They will not be able to handle all them CA's they will draw at that BPV.

Rob Cole · « **Reply #26 on:** May 20, 2003, 01:37:39 am »

Fkuf said he was drawing 3 Lyran BC's!!!!
Have you not been reading this thread???
In closing I would like to say.........................PFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFT!

Get yar butt back on the porch boy!

Dizzy · « **Reply #27 on:** May 20, 2003, 01:40:42 am »

Ok Blade... Dropping the DF+ back to its standard BPV wouldnt be the answeer if a 127 point bpv ship is drawing 3x L-BC's....

There is a larger issue here...

Fluf · « **Reply #28 on:** May 20, 2003, 01:56:47 am »

Dizzy,

Karnaks missions do work off of class, but they also pull in off of BPV too. So flying like his Skirmish mission in a DF+, I will pull in the standard classes he puts in, but they will be based on how high my BPV is.

I actually pulled in the L-BC's in a Dave Sector Assault. He also has a NW10Patrol now that is a 3v3 and is totally based on the BPV of you ship. Dave, Tracey, and Karnak all use the same multiplier of 1.5 of your BPV on most of their missions.

During the mission I stated above, I was flying a DF+ and in a normal Dave Sector Assault I probably would have drawn 2 or 3 CLs and CA. with my 2 FF allies. Instead I pulled 3 L-BC's and a L-NCE vs my DF+, F=DER and F-NCA. I saw a total of 2 L-INT's and 6 L-PF+'s along with this nice fleet. Needless to say, the Fed AI died within two minutes, and as I was trying to get my fearsome DF+ drone chucking machine moving, all the PF+'s whacked my impervious 12 point shields to nothing in one shot and I was gone.

I ran several of these types of missions, both the 10Patrol, Karnak Skrimish and a few others and after losing both my MCC and the DF+ decided to move over to Klink space to get away from all the nasty PF's. I was still pulling in L-BC's at this time.
Klink space was still know fun, and I lost my DWD within 2 missions, pulling in C7's with F6's in simple Karnak missions or Dave missions with D7W, F5K, AD5. And thats with a war destroy. Hmm but my BPV puts me at a light crusier so at 1.5, yeah Im pulling in CA's and CLs.

Whole point is Diz, Im a vet of this game. I can imagine what a new player would think of this.

Recommedation:

Dont screw with the shiplist. Put it back to stock. Throw the Tholians in and lets play!

KATChuutRitt · « **Reply #29 on:** May 20, 2003, 02:09:42 am »

Also Dizzy with the multiple ship missions if you catch a player in a mission his ai help is also based on BPV. So the droners which are normally lousy for p vs p will really be a liability here. I agree with Fluf, go back to stock and lets play.

KATChuutRitt · « **Reply #31 on:** May 20, 2003, 02:29:30 am »

Well playtest the DF+ a bit on the test server and see what you think Dizzy. Sound reasonable?

Dizzy · « **Reply #32 on:** May 20, 2003, 02:49:19 am »

I cant even get on the server cuz it says my accounts... it cant find the email addy... None of my accounts work to get me past the gs screen where you then see the servers...

FPF_TraceyG · « **Reply #34 on:** May 20, 2003, 04:26:39 am »

A note about ship prices. The game engine uses the following the formula.

Ship price = BPV * hull class modifier * price difficulty modifier

This formula is hard coded into the game engine and CANNOT be changed. You can adjust the modifiers in the server gf files and you can change the BPV in the shiplist. Clearly, however, the price of a ship is always dependant upon BPV, unless you make the BPV of every ship equal to one.

deadman · « **Reply #35 on:** May 20, 2003, 04:50:34 am »

Dizzy they are not lieing to ya, I was flying a drone frigget flew into 3 BCHs and 2 PF caring WDs, in another mission I pulled 2 BCHs,C7 2pfwds ,in another I pulled a DNP 2 CAs and a pf tender, and the reason I am flying a drone boat is to handel all the PFs, and my AI help is gone in about 2min and that leave just me agenst everything else, Dizzy I love the concept and apriceate all the work you put in but your BPVs on your ships are wrong and they are drasticly efecting game play. I realy want this to work as this is the first campain that anyone has asked me what I thought should go into it or what I thought about anything, we ould not lie about this we all want it to be a great campaine Dizzy we realy do.

deadmansix

deadman · « **Reply #38 on:** May 20, 2003, 06:37:40 am »

Dizzy I was going buy the title of this thread I did not mean to say that all of the ships were wrong,I am sorry if you got that from my post.

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Topic: BPV bumps for drone ships?? (Read 9625 times) var addthis_config = {"data_track_clickback":true};

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Topic: BPV bumps for drone ships?? (Read 9625 times)