Topic: Dizzy or Karnak

[SSCF Hooch]

What are the AI levels set at?

Could you increase the game speed to 9?

Comment

Karnak, Dave your missions are pretty good, I have not seen any bugs yet...well done.

(darn, now I have to use mouthwash)  

[CubCarson]

Quote:

Karnak, Dave your missions are pretty good, I have not seen any bugs yet...well done.

(darn, now I have to use mouthwash)  

might I suggest some penecillion too...
ewww...
 

[KOTH-Steel Claw]

I would not set the game at 9. Stability deteriorates.  

[Kroma_BaSyl]

Yeah 8 is fat enough.

[Julin Eurthyr]

Quote:
Yeah 8 is fat enough.  

Your right.  Since your tutu is obviously a size 22, you definitely need to go on a diet.

We have plenty of lovely (doctored) low-calorie chocodiles to go with your new all-salad diet.

Don't forget, a good diet is based around limited ( <- read no) alcohol intake.  All that starch is never good for a diet.  Obviously this means you cannot fly Gorn, as a requirement for their race is heavy consumption of alcohol.  You could join your buddies in the Klingon Empire however.  At least you should live through most encounters there... (due to the limited t-bomb supply instead of the not-so-limited disruptor supply...)

Obviously, when the diet is done, we'll have a nice spanking new size-8 tutu for you...

[Kroma_BaSyl]

Quote:

Quote:
Yeah 8 is fat enough.  

Your right.  Since your tutu is obviously a size 22, you definitely need to go on a diet.

We have plenty of lovely (doctored) low-calorie chocodiles to go with your new all-salad diet.

Don't forget, a good diet is based around limited ( <- read no) alcohol intake.  All that starch is never good for a diet.  Obviously this means you cannot fly Gorn, as a requirement for their race is heavy consumption of alcohol.  You could join your buddies in the Klingon Empire however.  At least you should live through most encounters there... (due to the limited t-bomb supply instead of the not-so-limited disruptor supply...)

Obviously, when the diet is done, we'll have a nice spanking new size-8 tutu for you...  

Doh! Freudian slip, which is in fact what I wear under the tutu.

As for limiting my alcohol intake, I would please ask you to refrain from such language or I will be forced to report you to the moderators.

[Karnak]

Quote:
What are the AI levels set at?

Could you increase the game speed to 9?

Comment

Karnak, Dave your missions are pretty good, I have not seen any bugs yet...well done.

(darn, now I have to use mouthwash)  

All AI officers are set in my missions are set  at legendary status so watch out for HETs and unwanted SP attacks.  I think NW did the same. In addition,   I believe Frey set the general campaign difficulty setting at "Admiral".

I think speed 8 is good.  Unless, Dizzy says otherwise I'd like to keep it there.

[SSCF Hooch]

I have just one issue. This is an advanced setup for a server and old hands will like it but if we are trying to attract new players we should take that into consideration.

Many of us have been actively been talking EaW up to the SCF III players and some of them are coming. I suggest you all consider that. I want to see if this game has some possible life left to bring in new players, lets try that with this server.

This is a much deeper game than III, and just might spook newer players away. Lets keep it challenging and fun.

Thanks
Hooch  

[Dizzy]

gotcha hooch... AI matchups with these missions are being carefully scrutinized and I think that we will be looking at a lower bpv AI modifier in the early era then ratcheting it up from there...

This is early... we will see...

[Julin Eurthyr]

Quote:
Doh! Freudian slip, which is in fact what I wear under the tutu.

Hmmm.  Subconciously slipping out the fact that you are strongly considering the diet.  Good man, being severely overweight for the body type has been known to abnormally shorten lifespans...

I hear the Klingon regimen of weight loss is... exciting... and should get you into that size 8 tutu in no time.  

The KBF is waiting to assist you in your endeavour...

ps: Drinking may have led to that size-22 tutu.  A well versed ballerina knows that overabundance of Alcoholic beverages does that to the figure, and that moderation of all things drunk / eaten is always the way to stay in prime shape.  While on the low-fat Chocodile and full salad diet in order to get that size-8 tutu on quickly, abstinence is the way to go.  Once in the size-8, an occasional glass of bloodwine won't hurt... (especially when followed by a strenuous workout... )

[TheMaverick]

Bah... No speed 9... Keep it at 8

[FatherTed]

 

Quote:
This is a much deeper game than III, and just might spook newer players away. Lets keep it challenging and fun.
 

Agreed. A lot of newer Feds bailed early on AOTK because of the mission difficulty and being reduced from a terrible destroyer to freighter hell.    

[Karnak]

Quote:
Agreed. A lot of newer Feds bailed early on AOTK because of the mission difficulty and being reduced from a terrible destroyer to freighter hell.    

Tell 'em to stay in home space and take the Karnak the Santa Claus missions of:

** begin jingle bells ringing **
Convoy Escort (Kar_Convoy)
Defensive Action Patrol (Kar_hPatrol)
** end  jingle bells ringing **

and capture lotsa enemy AI.  Once they have a Heavy Cruiser (won't cost more than 5k - 6k)  they can co-op with a veteran in Neutral/Enemy Space.

Ho, ho, ho. Merry Xmas.

[CW-Frankk]

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This is a much deeper game than III, and just might spook newer players away. Lets keep it challenging and fun.
 

Agreed. A lot of newer Feds bailed early on AOTK because of the mission difficulty and being reduced from a terrible destroyer to freighter hell.    

they must have flown like klingons in a chessy F5  

good luck  

[SSCF Hooch]

Look, I want to grow this game that is waining fast. I am not asking for an easy server. I think we have a chance to attract new players (for all races) lets take it.

Karnak, what is the chance of flagging missions as Level one, (beginner) Level Two...you get the idea?

Hooch

PS
Mind you, I am not whinning,  just thiniing about a possible future. If the game keeps selling we have one, if it croaks (no pun) it just withers and dies. Think about it...

[Dan]

Quote:


All AI officers are set in my missions are set  at legendary status so watch out for HETs and unwanted SP attacks.  I think NW did the same. In addition,   I believe Frey set the general campaign difficulty setting at "Admiral".

I think speed 8 is good.  Unless, Dizzy says otherwise I'd like to keep it there.

you did WHAT????

Do you have any concept what setting all of the officers to Legendary does to the ships? That needs to be changed ASAP so they are normal officers.  

[Lepton1]

Were officers set to legendary on DOE or any other servers for that matter?

[Fluf]

Yes all missions on Litterbox 3 had Karnaks original missions in them with Legendary officers.  I heard not complaints except for the bugs that caused the AI to take over your ship. which those have been fixed now.  He has new missions in SG3 and his new Skirmish mission is tough, but doable.

Both Dave and Tracey have done these kind of enhancements to make the AI a little tougher and not as dumb as Taldren made them.   Basically, its Dizzy's shiplist which is causing some of the problems now, with the increased BPV's  and fighter and PF loadouts on some of his ships.  He is taking a good look at his list now.

[NuclearWessels]

Dan,

in response to the "do we have any concept" insult - yes all three of us understand the implications.  Both in terms of the SFB legendary officer rules and (more importantly) Taldren's implementation of them.  Taldren did NOT implement all the SFB legendary officer traits for EAW/OP, and they even dropped some of the ones that were supported in SFC1.

Secondly, it's not all officers, it is SOME of the AI officers in SOME of the ships in SOME of the missions.
 
Each of us gave the AI some enhancements to try and offset it's appalling level of play.  Interestingly this was done independently, but the three of us wound up doing some very similar things at similar times.  More important than the statistical bonuses, the legendary officer status actually gets the AI to attempt some maneuvers either more frequently or more logically, resulting in slightly less predictable AI behaviour and slightly more challenging behaviour.  <shrugs> If it makes combat vs the AI less predictable/boring I'm inclined to leave it in in spite of the statistical bonuses the AI gets.

Edit: and yes Lepton, these changes went into effect quite some time ago - certainly prior to DOE and have been in place in the campaigns running customized missions on both the EAW and the OP servers since then.

dave
   

[Lepton1]

Cool, I played DOE and thought the scripts were great.  Just was trying to ascertain the recent state of affairs.  Thanks!  

[Dan]

tougher?

Legendary weapons officer ignores half the ECM a shim can generate. Leg. Navagatie makes the ship tunr faster. Engineer repairs faster and adds 4 power.

Need I go on?

The officers need to be totally removed from the AI.

[Dan]

Since when have i given a flying damn what you thought Nanner?

The statistical bonues are very signifigate fro ROF weapons and large low hit crunch weapons (photons). Combined with the fact that every mission I've played had my out BPVed by 4 to 1 or more it's far to much.

[Soreyes]

Christ ol Mighty. Just did a Karnak Skermish with a F-NCL and me in a Z-MDC+. What did we get? 1 K-C7, 2 K-D7Ks, and a K-F6!!!!   Heck at a range of 35 I got hit with 8 Disr for full damage, and lets not talk about the Ph-1s that came next. All this with a ECM shift of 3

This has got to be a Joke    Right?

[Fluf]

Unfortunatley Soreyes no, its the BPV adjustment on the MDC+ moving it over what a heavy cruiser would be.  However Karnaks Skirmishs are very tough, and he uses ship classes instead of BPV to assign the slots.

[Sten]

Reenabling the Lengendary Officers and running the server on Admiral setting turns back on a bunch of tactical subroutines thats are turned off otherwise.

Now all the L.O. s do is give the AI help certainly not an edge. Honestly I didn't really notice it all that much tonight. I have played the game two battles in the last 8 months prior to this weekend. Its just starting to feel right again.
 
I flew Lyran probably the worst AI in the game to have as a wingman. Now considering you can control the AI in the fleet window has been enabled,  this is a major step to stopping some of the stupid things the AI does.

At least as a Lyran I want a Lengendary AI Officer flying wing for me. I like it when the AI T-BOMBS the target so I don't have to. Or most of all fires the freakin ESG instead of not using for the entire battle. Now if I could just get the AI to leave the range set to three I would be estatic.

The Captains level AI is to easy. The Server needs to be run with Admiral.

Alittle tweaking on prices of Ships and Pseudo Fighters, clean up the spec file, oh and Dizzy please can you get rid of the Hellbores on the Thiolian ships. Please!!! Then we gots us a server.

Sten

[Dizzy]

Brez and I are secretly going over the Tholians... and we have agreed the Hellbores dont fit... But are not sure what a good replacement would be...

[KATChuutRitt]

I have to back up Brez and Hooch on the legendary officers bit.  I think the game needs to remain fun for the newer players as Hooch said, and that legendary officers make too big a difference, esp with more missions with multiple ai opponents.  When facing multiple opponents and getting your shields blown out at range 25 through ECM shifts might be fun for some, it is not for many.  I have found myself faring ok with the increased difficulty, but am not happy with the legendary officer addition.  I will admit, however, I do like seeing the ai use the ship it has to better effect, but not at the expense of making ECM useless and getting slammed at extreme range by the direct fire heavy races who outgun me.

[SSCF Hooch]

Quote:
I have to back up Brez and Hooch on the legendary officers bit.  I think the game needs to remain fun for the newer players as Hooch said, and that legendary officers make too big a difference, esp with more missions with multiple ai opponents.  When facing multiple opponents and getting your shields blown out at range 25 through ECM shifts might be fun for some, it is not for many.  I have found myself faring ok with the increased difficulty, but am not happy with the legendary officer addition.  I will admit, however, I do like seeing the ai use the ship it has to better effect, but not at the expense of making ECM useless and getting slammed at extreme range by the direct fire heavy races who outgun me.  

"ooooo, that had to hurt"  

Guys, please keep it civil. I really want to see the old timers, the folks that switched to III, and see if we can get some new players too with this one.

Lets pull together and see if we can work it out for everybody here, half a loaf is better than nothing.

Hooch

[Karnak]

The allied AI has legendary officers too in my missions.  Every AI, hostile or friendly, has legendary AI.

Soreyes,

Skirmish Action is a 3v3.  Sounds like you were in a Squadron Action but that's a 5v4.  So, I am not sure what mission you are talking aoubt.

[mbday]

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Quote:
I have to back up Brez and Hooch on the legendary officers bit.  I think the game needs to remain fun for the newer players as Hooch said, and that legendary officers make too big a difference, esp with more missions with multiple ai opponents.  When facing multiple opponents and getting your shields blown out at range 25 through ECM shifts might be fun for some, it is not for many.  I have found myself faring ok with the increased difficulty, but am not happy with the legendary officer addition.  I will admit, however, I do like seeing the ai use the ship it has to better effect, but not at the expense of making ECM useless and getting slammed at extreme range by the direct fire heavy races who outgun me.  

"ooooo, that had to hurt"  

Guys, please keep it civil. I really want to see the old timers, the folks that switched to III, and see if we can get some new players too with this one.

Lets pull together and see if we can work it out for everybody here, half a loaf is better than nothing.

Hooch  

Look haveing the Legs offcieer in could help in what Hoochs and others are whating to do as well as get the new player to start talking to people on the server. They will see that others are not have a big problem I.E. the Vets wwith the mission. I know when I was a newbi I relly had no reason to talk becuase it was way to easy. With these mission the newbis will what to know how to win the missions against the AI's. We do not what to do to this that that has been done to SFC3. We do not what to make it so easy that people have no reason to speak. I say keep them in. They are hard yes but with the Leg officers every one wins in the long run. It will make every one better polits and even might make people what PvP more. My thoughts on this.l  

[Julin Eurthyr]

Quote:
I have to back up Brez and Hooch on the legendary officers bit.  I think the game needs to remain fun for the newer players as Hooch said, and that legendary officers make too big a difference, esp with more missions with multiple ai opponents.  When facing multiple opponents and getting your shields blown out at range 25 through ECM shifts might be fun for some, it is not for many.  I have found myself faring ok with the increased difficulty, but am not happy with the legendary officer addition.  I will admit, however, I do like seeing the ai use the ship it has to better effect, but not at the expense of making ECM useless and getting slammed at extreme range by the direct fire heavy races who outgun me.  

So that's why I'm shelling out my entire PP award in repairs / resupplies.  Enemy LWOs are punching through my defenses like butter.

Why is this the case do you ask?  I did the math on 10 Phaser-1's  hitting my ship at range 10, all damages displayed as if in game...
Against the "stupid" AI who lets me keep my entire 2-shift up.  10 Phaser-1's hitting for 1 damage with a 16% success rate.  Total pain: 0 - 10 (1) damage.  
Same fleet, Admiral AI.  Uses enough ECCM to make me run under a 1 shift.  They now hit for 0 - 20 (5) damage.  A little more painful, sure, but that's what I get for not paying attention to ECM.
Throw in an LWO (Legendary Weapon Officer).  IIRC, he gets to kill off, for free, one whole ECM shift.  Now I have no ECM at all, 0 - 30 (10) damage.  Okay, time to consider killing the ECM and letting my ship run faster...
Oh, does that LWO get a flat +1 to hit after all other considerations are taken care of?  If so I'm looking at eating 0 -30 (15)  points of phaser-inflicted pain at range 10 every round.

Hmmm... the LWO, on average, triples the phaser 1 damage taken at range 9-15 against a competent player.  It doubles the damage taken by the average "newbie" who doesn't know about ECM.  
Something else to keep in mind.  While the theoretical minimum damage for all conditions is 0, the odds of a 0 point volley go down dramatically with each stage.  The chance that any given phaser will hit for 0 damage, in each of the above situations, is as follows:
2-shift: 83%
1-shift: 67%
No shift (from LWO with one shift cancelled): 50%
LWO bonus after countering all ECM: 33%
I'm no statician, but I know the odds of 10 shots all scoring in that 33% range are a heck of a lot less than 10 shots all falling in that 83% range...

I appreciate the fact that we're trying to make the game more a challenge for the veteran.  However, there comes a point where only the elite can square off against the system.  I think that with the multiple 3 on 1's / 3 on 3's, enhanced opposition (facing 125 - 150%+ BPV in enemy opposition), and the LWO bonuses, we may be reaching that Over the Top range where one has to be elite to face off against the AI and stil have a modicum of "fun".

Keep the Legendary engineers & navigators.  Let them turn better, and have a few more power, and better repairs.  But please remove the Legendary Weapon Officers (or at least give them to the Players too...  )...