Topic: The meaning of Dreadnought  (Read 13759 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Rogue

  • Guest
The meaning of Dreadnought
« on: January 27, 2003, 04:41:46 pm »
I had to post this. Was watching history channel after work and they were discussing the birth of the battleship. Of course they were talking about the British naval behemoth Dreadnought. The name dreadnought came from a familly crest, "Fear God and dread nought". Or be afraid of nothing. I appreciated it, I thought there may be a few here that might.  

**DONOTDELETE**

  • Guest
Re: The meaning of Dreadnought
« Reply #1 on: January 27, 2003, 04:48:15 pm »
Strange.

and here I thought it was named after the behemoth Jamaican battleship the "Dread-lock"  

Aenigma

  • Guest
Re: The meaning of Dreadnought
« Reply #2 on: January 27, 2003, 04:49:39 pm »
Yes we Klingons dread nought.



*dead silence*



*dead silence while touching forehead*



*dead silence when looking in the mirror after touching forehead*



*dead silence*



*more dead silence*



.......................

WAIT, i'm no klingon. We Romulans dread nought!

Aenigma    

Dash Jones

  • Guest
Re: The meaning of Dreadnought
« Reply #3 on: January 27, 2003, 05:30:22 pm »
So Klingon...who is nought?

Is that us Romulans when you can't see us?  You think we are nought?

 

lleggs

  • Guest
Re: The meaning of Dreadnought
« Reply #4 on: January 27, 2003, 05:32:23 pm »
hehe, i thought i was the only one who watched The History Channel, one of the few places on tv where u can learn stuff

Inglo

  • Guest
Re: The meaning of Dreadnought
« Reply #5 on: January 27, 2003, 06:19:11 pm »
Did they have the origin of Frigate?  
I seem to remember something else from the Histoty Channel, that originally Destroyers were all known as Submarine Destroyers, and the class designation was shortened with time and diversification of use.
How about cruisers, I have no idea which came first, the verb or the ship, or if cruise had an earlier definition then the one we have today.  Without doing any research it would seem that cruiser bears an etymoligical kinship with cross or crusade.  I dunno.

Azrael

  • Guest
Re: The meaning of Dreadnought
« Reply #6 on: January 27, 2003, 07:06:08 pm »
Gah!

You needed the History channel to peice that together?  Sheesh.  Are books banned in your country?

Cruisers.  Hmmmnn.  That's a tough one.  Why would these large ships that cruise quickly through the sea be called cruisers.  Gee, I hope there's a special on the History Channel to help clear that one up.

When you write your book (or I suppose make your television special) on the bleeding obvious, be sure to include why those things that remove staples are called staple removers, because that one's always puzzled me.

Oh, and the etymology of frigate is Middle French, circa. 1583, from the Old Italian "fregata", for a light boat propelled, initially by oars, later by sails.

Have a nice day.

Azrael  

DukeFife

  • Guest
Re: The meaning of Dreadnought
« Reply #7 on: January 27, 2003, 07:49:30 pm »
At least as far as the British Royal Navy was concerned,  "Destroyers"  shortened down from Torpedo Boat Destroyers, or TBDs.  My Grandfather, whose initials also happened to be TBD, served on one in the Med during WW I.  I believe it was a Type A or C  TBD, can't recall which one.  

FrankyVas

  • Guest
Re: The meaning of Dreadnought
« Reply #8 on: January 27, 2003, 07:51:47 pm »
As for Frigate, I duno.  Frigates are birds, maybe named the ships after the beautiful, fast birds?  

Destroyers were Torpedo boat Destroyers.  After WWI they just shortened it and then they became multi purpose ships.  Cruisers were any ship that was set loose alone in the ocean.  Before WWI Cruiser become a class of ship, able to destroy Destroyers, and outrun Battleships, essentialy kill anything it can't outrun..

DarkMecha

  • Guest
Re: The meaning of Dreadnought
« Reply #9 on: January 27, 2003, 08:02:42 pm »
ya know azrael, you didnt need to get all sarcastic there

he did ask a valid question, and even if it's obvious to you, it may not have been to him


no need to be rude like that, doesnt help anyone, except maybe your ego...

   - DM  

Inglo

  • Guest
Re: The meaning of Dreadnought
« Reply #10 on: January 27, 2003, 08:05:18 pm »
Well I was curious where "cruise" came from.  I looked around a bit and originally a cruise was a naval patrol following a cross pattern.    I figured cruise and cross had to have some correlation, guess I was right.
Found this on frigate:
frigate - 1585, from M.Fr. frégate, from It. fregata, like many ship names, of unknown origin.

 

J. Carney

  • Guest
Re: The meaning of Dreadnought
« Reply #11 on: January 27, 2003, 08:29:04 pm »
Quote:

Did they have the origin of Frigate?  
I seem to remember something else from the Histoty Channel, that originally Destroyers were all known as Submarine Destroyers, and the class designation was shortened with time and diversification of use.
How about cruisers, I have no idea which came first, the verb or the ship, or if cruise had an earlier definition then the one we have today.  Without doing any research it would seem that cruiser bears an etymoligical kinship with cross or crusade.  I dunno.  




As far as frigate, I cannot help you.

As for the origin of the term 'destroyer,' you are close but not quite correct. They were actually called torpedo-boat destroyers- made to 'destroy' the 'torpedo boats' that nations had begun building for cheap costal patrol boats after the turn of the century. These were small, fast boats poiwered by internal combustion engines. The torpedo-boat destroyer was a very fast steam-powered ship with a small gun battery that was useless agianst any other warship but would be fatal to the small, often wooden-hulled torpedp boats. Ironically, later destroyers gained their greatest firepower from the torpedoes they were designed to protect the fleet from.

Maxillius

  • Guest
Re: The meaning of Dreadnought
« Reply #12 on: January 27, 2003, 10:21:49 pm »
  The original cruisers were called cruisers because that's all they were good for.  They were used in the 17th and 18th centuries for largely freight and messenger service.  They were fast, but lightly armed.  

NJAntman

  • Guest
Re: The meaning of Dreadnought
« Reply #13 on: January 28, 2003, 07:10:19 am »
Long time curiousity leads to this question (thank god I 'm not Mirak   (acckkk, Kizinti, sorry).
The origin of "Cutter" is?
All replies or even sarcasm appreciatted.
 

J. Carney

  • Guest
Re: The meaning of Dreadnought
« Reply #14 on: January 28, 2003, 09:01:08 am »
Cutter: boat belonging to a ship of war.  ca. 1745.

They are single-masted, sharp-built vessels, provided with fore-and-aft sails only, and fitted with a running bowsprit; they have no standing jib stay. Such vessels were at one time generally used for coasting passenger traffic. The term “ cutter" is also applied to an open sailing boat carried on board ship.

I can't find where it came from, but that is the original meanning andrigging of what would have been called a cutter. This is the modern definitiion, taken from the U.S. Coast Guard's site, which givesan idea of it's military usage today.

Cutter: A "Cutter" is basically any Coast Guard vessel 65 feet in length or greater, having adequate accommodations for crew to live on board.


 

brotheda

  • Guest
Re: The meaning of Dreadnought
« Reply #15 on: January 28, 2003, 09:32:50 am »
Frigate is when you just don't care anymore.  

But seriously, it is usually an escort I think.

The modern navy is a different story.  There are no more battle ships.  I think the US has a few light cruisers but the bulk of the fleet is Guided missile destroyers and frigates, of course you always have the flatops, or Aircraft cariers (only the US and a few other though).

I also know a battle cruiser is a ship with a battleships weapons, but a cruisers speed.  Of course it has much less armour and is more easily destroyed.  To make things simpler though, SFC doesn't follow the real navy.  It is simply the next ship being stronger than the previous.    
« Last Edit: January 28, 2003, 09:38:56 am by brotheda »

Bossman

  • Guest
Re: The meaning of Dreadnought
« Reply #16 on: January 28, 2003, 11:04:52 am »
Well aren't we a grumpy little man today?    

kevlar

  • Guest
Re: The meaning of Dreadnought
« Reply #17 on: January 28, 2003, 01:22:19 pm »
The US navy still has a good number of medium to heavy conventional propulsion cruisers, the Ticonderoga class and some nuclear powered ones, like the Virginia class.  

The problem is that ships originally were classed by their displacement and, until 1950/60, is was pretty easy to classify ships, while now there are destroyers and frigates with more than 7000 tons of displacement, what by the older standards, puts them on par with most  cruisers.
Also, the reduction of gun calibre to the almost universal dual function 127 mm,  and the widespread of guided missiles, complexes even more naval typology.  In fact , trying to compare ( and establish differences) between a modern Arleigh Burke destroyer and a modern cruiser can be painful.

The battlecruiser definition is even harder to conceptualise. The original term for them was "great heavy light cruiser", and that was how Lord Fisher, the father of the HMS Dreadnought, ordered them for the Royal Navy. Eventually someone started to think that "great heavy light cruiser" was a vague concept and classified the ships as battlecruisers,  vessels capable of emulate  the firepower of conventional dreadnoughts but still maintained the speed of cruisers.

 Even so the designation battlecruiser always produced a fair amount of equivoques. For example, the battlecruiser HMS Hood , built between 1916 and 1919, with a displacement that could oscillate between 41 125 and 46680 tons;  was bigger and heavier armoured  than any contemporary dreadnought built until then,  and by 1940 it still had a  displacement similar to the North Carolina battleship class. By the displacement criteria alone, the Hood was, by his own right, a battleship, and the Kriegsmarine had no problems in classifying it as panzerschiffe (battleship or armoured vessel).The royal navy only categorized it as a battlecruiser simply because the Hood had a extremely high speed ( 31 .9 knots) and used torpedo tubes.
At the same time the HMS Renown and HMS Repulse also had firepower and displacements that matched the ones of Arkansas, New York, Nevada battleship and british Queen Mary dreadnoughts,  but were universally classified as battlecruisers, while the pocket dreadnoughts of the Deutschland class , later known as the Lutzow class,  ended up being considered heavy cruisers despite the fact that they were ordered as panzerschiffes and looked light when compared with the german Prinz Eugen heavy cruiser,  and sort of puny if compared with the Scharnhorst and Gneisenau battle cruisers

To fire the furnace even more, the soviet nuclear powered Kirov cruiser was considered a battlecruiser by many western navies trough the eighties and even nineties, even when it had almost three and a half times more displacement than most occidental heavy cruisers  ( and by comparison with them looked more like a battleship than anything else). But for the soviets it was always seen simply as a guided missile heavy cruiser.

 It is all on the eyes of the beholder.
 
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 06:00:00 pm by kevlar »

Azrael

  • Guest
Re: The meaning of Dreadnought
« Reply #18 on: January 28, 2003, 01:51:14 pm »
Sheesh, calm down.

Didn't mean to hurt anybody's feelings.

I admit it.  In my post I was being a complete sarcastic twat.  Get over it.

I also did, however, thoughtfully include the origins of the word Frigate.

Now somebody can one up me and give us the origines of Corevette.

Azrael

Aenigma

  • Guest
Re: The meaning of Dreadnought
« Reply #19 on: January 28, 2003, 03:18:05 pm »
Well here's something about corvettes (i suppose you don't mean the car).

small warship, classed between a frigate and a sloop-of-war. Corvettes usually were flush-decked and carried fewer than 28 guns. They were widely employed in escorting convoys and attacking merchant ships during the great naval wars of the late 18th and early 19th cent., but corvettes passed from use with the transition from sail to steam. At the beginning of World War II the term was reintroduced to designate a small vessel of about 1,000 tons displacement, armed with depth charges and a single 4-in. (10.2-cm) gun. In the early years of the war, large numbers of these vessels were employed by the British and Canadian navies as convoy escorts in the North Atlantic; later they were supplanted by the larger, faster, and better-armed frigates.

Source: www.encyclopedia.com

Aenigma