Topic: CW8(8.5)....The winds of war blow again..... (Read 8451 times)

Cleaven · « **Reply #40 on:** May 13, 2003, 11:14:55 pm »

Yes the MIRV, spoken in the same hushed tones as fast plasma (what a lemon) and ESG Lance (very handy if you get close) and the snare. Now I shall just add up the number of servers that came to a ugly halt because of the arrival of the ESG lance and fast plasma. Looks like I won't even have to put down my beer and burger to count them on my fingers. And it's not even the weapon itself, just the arrival time that is the issue.

Of course I'd prefer not to even go into advanced era, and therefore avoid the whole problem.

KBF-Dogmatix · « **Reply #41 on:** May 13, 2003, 11:31:45 pm »

Luddite!

Cleaven · « **Reply #42 on:** May 13, 2003, 11:57:33 pm »

As I've said before on numerous occasions, if you can't handle an early era ship, with single digit shields, a couple of Ph2's and one heavy weapon only, you don't know what fun is. And just think of the language skills you pick up in the process. I'm sure the loved ones who share your domicile will note the increase in verbal acuity as you alpha strike for single digit damage to your equally pitiful enemy.

Fluf · « **Reply #43 on:** May 13, 2003, 11:58:13 pm »

Hehe, Luddite.

Cleaven to the rescue again.

I wish there was a way to balance the X ships and make them a little more balanced. Hell I would like to see X3 and X4 ships brought in per SFB so we could fill out the timeline all the way to SFC3. Geesh sounds like another project. Ill add it to my list of "things to do"

Cleaven · « **Reply #44 on:** May 14, 2003, 12:33:13 am »

Heck, I keep looking at that snare thingy and wonder about Tholians.

As for balancing X-ships, I'm sure something can be arrived at, but you would want to run an X-only server for a couple of weeks to get some info to work with. The only proviso is why do a lot of work on something that doesn't have too much interest? As in intellectual problem it is significant, but the demand is unknown at this time.

DONOTDELETE · « **Reply #45 on:** May 14, 2003, 12:35:29 am »

Galaxies At War!!!!...

What we need is an unstoppable enemy inserted near the end of the campaign...one that forces the empires to band together with the emerging X-tech...something where one cruiser would take a small multi empire fleet to destroy........oh.....damn...was right there too......

near the end of the campiagn....unleash the admins with modded monsters wearing Andro skins

Fluf · « **Reply #46 on:** May 14, 2003, 12:55:44 am »

Exactly Crim, let loose the dogs of war. GAW with the andros! Make the X ships have to fight something that makes them look puny. Even though it might not be SFB based Andros, with the weapons available, Im sure we can come up with some pretty nasty little monsters to give everybody a thrill.

Cleaven · « **Reply #47 on:** May 14, 2003, 12:57:52 am »

Since I don't feel like shutting up at the moment:

I also thought that the ISC should be used as a campaign ending tool. Let the traditional Coalition and Aliiance fight it out and towards the end take the losers out, fit them out as the ISC, and let loose the dogs of war again. And as a bonus the winners of the first round get to change over to whatever of the losers empires they want to, to fight against the ISC. I'm not implying that the losers are captured, just that it has novelty value. So you have players who really are on the same team flying together against the new enemy, who just happen to be the old enemy.

Then make your Andromedan monsters, (or pirates) and repeat the process. This gives you the possible outcome of ISC Vs Andromedan monsters in the closing days. Essentially though it is a team game that would only work with people who are prepared to change uniforms after being beaten, and have another go, instead of taking their balls (hellbores?) and going home.

Matsukasi · « **Reply #48 on:** May 14, 2003, 01:04:17 am »

I can get behind that idea, Cleaven. Kudos on the brainpan usage.

Fluf · « **Reply #49 on:** May 14, 2003, 01:17:59 am »

Quote:

Since I don't feel like shutting up at the moment:

I also thought that the ISC should be used as a campaign ending tool. Let the traditional Coalition and Aliiance fight it out and towards the end take the losers out, fit them out as the ISC, and let loose the dogs of war again. And as a bonus the winners get to change over to whatever of the losers empires they want to. I'm not implying that the losers are captured, just that it has novelty value. So you have players who really are on the same team flying together against the new enemy, who just happen to be the old enemy.

Then make your Andromedan monsters, (or pirates) and repeat the process. This gives you the possible outcome of ISC Vs Andromedan monsters in the closing days. Essentially though it is a team game that would only work with people who are prepared to change uniforms after being beaten, and have another go, instead of taking their balls (hellbores?) and going home.

Took the words right out of my mouth. I was actually considering just this kind of scenario for my next OP server. I already have the stock F&E map ready. You could play through the point of the ISC Invasion (y186?) with certain VCs. At that time loosers would revert to the ISC and you could go with that war. What year did the Andros invade? Geesh I need to find my timeline. You could finish that server, then go on to the next eras to fight the andros and whatever else there was up until the TNG era on the next server with a new map. Then spill that into SFC3 for the finally of the campaign. It was one of the ideas I was thinking about for the next 3 LItterboxes. Start the campaign in EAW on the F&E map. Then move to OP at 2286 for the ISC invasion and beyond, working toward a final campaign on SFC3, which might be the Dominon Wars or something in that line. Oh well.

I want my GAW!

jdmckinney · « **Reply #51 on:** May 14, 2003, 08:15:45 am »

Well, this is really becoming very funny.

Funny in that we're finally moving toward exactly the kind of campaign setup SFCX has been wanting to do for a year, but had to wait on OP fixes to try.

Our goal for Theatres of War (ToW EDIT: TIDES of War) was for mini-campaigns that focused on a certain front or fronts, for limited runs with specific objectives. There are several bonuses to this. For one, you can pit empires against each other who match up well. You can also use inactive empires as some of the "missing" races like the WYN, LDR (as proper independent states), Tholians, and --gasp!-- Andromedans. When the ISC appear, they would appear in all their Z-refit glory, instead of as some SFC-ized neutered race. They'd be a force to be reckoned with. The WYN War of Return could be done. Andromedans could be flown as player ships against SFB-style Xes without tacking it on at the end of a running campaign. The list goes on.

Players would be able to pick and choose which minis they wanted to play on. When a player's favorite race wasn't present, they could choose to bolster the numbers of their allies who are on the front being showcased. Multiple admins could coordinate running a couple minis at the same time between runs of more ambitious General War campaigns that would include most or all of the races. Each mini could have a customized shiplist when needed. The map effects from one mini could be carried into the next mini or general run.

This (and more) is what SFCX has envisioned and been trying to work toward. Now that OP can support the tactical map game, and players are trying OP D2 again, the time is right to start planning these things.

But, a CW run is a different animal -- and a good idea. Let's get back to killer campaigns and look to the future.

EDIT: Stumpy reminded me of the proper name of SFCX's ToW campaign series-in-planning, "Tides of War." Memory is a fragile thing.

Cleaven · « **Reply #52 on:** May 14, 2003, 08:34:29 am »

Yes, ever since Drall (I think?) starting describing East Front and West Front servers (or was it Old World and New World?) to deal with the excessive number of players. Of course now supporting large player numbers aren't too much of an issue, but the novelty factor is, so as to encourage more players.

jdmckinney · « **Reply #54 on:** May 14, 2003, 09:18:53 am »

I think the old ideas about crossing SFC2 platforms to run multi-universe servers, and ideas on running different fronts to accomodate all players when pop limits couldn't, were what sparked the idea of mini-campaigns. I think Stumpy was among the first to bring it up in the forums, and once the discussion took off, SFCX decided to try to come up with a way to make it work.

The advantage of mini-campaigns is that not only can you handle the player numbers when they're high (and I think we all want to see that again), but you can also scale things to fit the times when numbers are down. It's a lot more flexible than a 3+ month campaign that needs constant tweaking and maintenance, plus infusions of interesting stories and VCs to keep the excitement up when they sometimes become one-sided battles.

The ToW format can handle sweeping story arcs and war on a galactic scale while not sacrificing the point of the D2 -- to get fleets of players working toward their empire's goals of expansion, defense, or exploration.

Cleaven · « **Reply #55 on:** May 14, 2003, 09:31:31 am »

Sadly expansion and exploration imply those vast expanses of neutral hexes we've seen in the past, and without neutral co-op I am just not in the mood for treking across 30 or 40 hexes on my own with 10 other players. I did it for the last time on IDSL and it passed quickly enough so as not to be too much of a drawback, but not again. Just my opinion.

jdmckinney · « **Reply #56 on:** May 14, 2003, 09:44:53 am »

When I talk of expansion, I'm really using a euphemism for invasion.

When I talk of exploration, I think of neutral areas for solo players to find VCs or add to their empire's economy when there's no PvP or attack/defend coop to be had. It is very hard for newbies (and we do want more newbies) or others to feel like they're contributing to a campaign if they're just going into enemy space to get their ship blasted out from under them. We always need some neutral area to allow people to get out of starter ships or poor replacements, or just kill time against the AI until things get more exciting. We just don't need a lot of neutral space -- and in fact it is proven to hurt campaigns as long as neutral coop is a hit-or-miss proposition.

jdmckinney · « **Reply #57 on:** May 14, 2003, 09:48:37 am »

By the way, that's another advantage of the mini-campaign approach: you can start the empires close together with shorter run times and focused VC goals. If you start people in decent ships (getting better as the minis move forward in the timeline), then you can get right to the business of war.

Cleaven · « **Reply #58 on:** May 14, 2003, 09:50:10 am »

Yes, although friendly frontier space which is not at max DV is probably a more appropriate place for a beginner to be. Let the enemy fight throught the neutral space and then come up against maxed out DV's.

jdmckinney · « **Reply #59 on:** May 14, 2003, 09:52:40 am »

I notice my posts have gotten off the topic. While I think discussion of campaign formats and maps is a good thing we should always be doing to make the game better, I'm sorry to have nearly hijacked the thread.

Jeff, are you looking at a particular timeframe for this campaign? Is there a lot of work to be done, or is it essentially waiting for a time slot?

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Topic: CW8(8.5)....The winds of war blow again..... (Read 8451 times)

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