Topic: SFC versus SFB years (Read 5401 times)

Pi-R · « **on:** May 12, 2003, 09:39:41 am »

Hi,

Can someone please explain to me how the years of SFC compare to those of SFB? I understand in Shiplist.txt the year 0 represent 2251, but in SFB timeline the four powers war between Klingons, Lyrans, Kzintis/Mirak and Hydrans lasted from Y158 to Y162.

Mog · « **Reply #1 on:** May 12, 2003, 09:44:37 am »

Well, going by dynaverse settings, Year 0 is Y163 in SFB

Cleaven · « **Reply #2 on:** May 12, 2003, 11:07:35 pm »

Which sort of corresponds to the start of mid-era when the Romulans get warp capable ships in 2260ish as per the SFC shiplist. There are a few variances from the SFB/F&E source material but some of those could just be errors lost in the pile of work that went into preparing the shiplist files.

Don't try and overlay SFC eras with SFB eras. SFC era's just define when faster drones appear, and even those starting times are not correct as per SFB, but it does give a bit of logic to the way SFC works so you can't argue too much with it.

Pi-R · « **Reply #3 on:** May 13, 2003, 01:07:25 am »

Thanks.

Do you also know when the middle and late era of SFC start in SFC years? I assume the early era starts at 0.

FireSoul · « **Reply #4 on:** May 13, 2003, 02:44:19 am »

< 0 (-2263) is early.
0-7 (2263-2270) is Mid
8-26 (2271-2289) is Late
> 26 (2290-) is Advanced.

Cleaven · « **Reply #5 on:** May 13, 2003, 03:56:19 am »

Those years are defined in the server setup files (same applies to single player campaign). But there are some issues with the way the program interprets what is year zero. There are experts on server config files who can help you with this.

Pi-R · « **Reply #6 on:** May 13, 2003, 07:22:06 am »

Thanks guys

jdmckinney · « **Reply #7 on:** May 13, 2003, 09:36:33 am »

Quote:

< 0 (-2263) is early.
0-7 (2263-2270) is Mid
8-26 (2271-2289) is Late
> 26 (2290-) is Advanced.

Say what?

The .gf files use increments of 10 for the eras. So, I was under the impression 0-9 was early, 10-19 was mid, 20-29 was late, and 30+ was advanced (in OP).

Is this not the case? I certainly don't see why 10-year increments are used in the .gf files if the eras are actually what was posted above. Certainly it makes no sense to me that early ends before the stock game even starts. Why then are slow drones available for some time before mediums come out?

Edit: Does this have to do with differences between D2 and skirmish/GSA play? If they are at all different, is there any reason why?

Karnak · « **Reply #8 on:** May 13, 2003, 10:04:57 am »

My server is always setup for :

Early Era: 2263 to 2272.9
Middle Era: 2273 to 2282.9 *** ISC Inv. starts here at 2273 ***
Late Era: 2283 to 2293

The corresponding shiplist.txt YFA column uses:

Y163 for 2263
Y173 for 2273
Y183 for 2283

To compensate for using only two eras in ISC Inv. the number of turns for a year is doubled from 144 to 288.

If someone thinks is a bad idea let me know.

NuclearWessels · « **Reply #9 on:** May 13, 2003, 10:07:26 am »

Yes, the eras are defined differently for the different play modes - just to mess folks up and fuel arguments

As far as the dynaverse is concerned, it's labelled "early" through '72, then up in 10 year increments with advanced covering '93+

dave

jdmckinney · « **Reply #10 on:** May 13, 2003, 10:34:43 am »

Whew. Thanks, Dave. I thought I was going crazy.

So, FireSoul's numbers reflect GSA play, but D2 uses the 10-year increments.

That's just another inconsistency that drives me batty. So it goes.

Mog · « **Reply #11 on:** May 13, 2003, 11:16:09 am »

Doug, those dates in the .gf files can be altered, they are just the default ones.

Medium speed drones should appear around 2267 time and the fasts 2280, so I guess really, the gf file should be changed to correspond to these dates for accuracy purposes (Mid era 4, Late era 17).

FireSoul · « **Reply #12 on:** May 13, 2003, 01:13:31 pm »

Guys..

There's a lot more to SFC life than the D2!

Mog · « **Reply #13 on:** May 13, 2003, 01:26:24 pm »

Yeah, been there, done that, Firesoul. Done the Mpig/Gamespy thing. I miss the days of 3-400 people online on Mpig, but dyna play means more than just points for your fleet, or yourself. The battles are much more satisfying, as you rarely get a matched fight (I'm talking pvp here, not ai). For example, on AOTK, me in a heavy cruiser engaged Flufbot in his DN. I fought him for 43 minutes, dishing out more damage than I received, till he left the map. For those 43 minutes I helped my alliance by stopping him running successful missions, whilst they ran missions under him, and I cost him some prestige too, and we both had fun (least he says he did

). You can't really get that duelling on GSA. What GSA play is good for, is practising. I enjo the occasional session on there, but dyna is a more fulfilling venue.

jdmckinney · « **Reply #14 on:** May 13, 2003, 01:38:10 pm »

Point taken, FS, but I just didn't know both modes had different era breaks. I really don't play GSA except to test shiplists, because I'm a D2 guy at heart. My main concern here was just establishing what the defaults are for eras, so anyone wondering wouldn't get inaccurate information.

Now it's pretty clear what the defaults are, and that for D2 the eras are not hard-locked into the game.

FireSoul · « **Reply #15 on:** May 13, 2003, 02:46:07 pm »

Originally, I thought "Advanced" started on 2300.. but I later discovered it wasn't the case.. Taldren merely put all xships YFAs at 2300 (37) and didn't bother adding depth to it.

.. since discovering that, a coopace 3.01 came out for OP to work with the added data, and the shiplist has gained X1 ships in the 2290s.. with Taldren's xships in the 2300s, staggered in date in a similar fashion as the X1 ships from SFB were.

Anyways, please take the values above as authoritive, and discovered through intense shiplist testing with standard multiplayer and GSA.

-- Luc

Cleaven · « **Reply #16 on:** May 13, 2003, 05:23:36 pm »

The real practical definition of "Early Era" in SFB terms is that time when the Romulans didn't have warp tech. Once they had access to the Klingon tech, and became warp capable, with WB+ and KR, then Mid Era and the lead up to the General War is upon us.

In D2 play, the ONLY THING that you get from a change in era's is faster drones, and those default dates are wrong too.

So when somebody says lets start in Early, this literally means thats the Romulans should start in sub-light ships. Early Mid-Era is what they really mean, but most people don't think about this when they can only relate to the Early-Mid-Late button in GSA/Skirmish mode, and the ships that they get access to.

Now how neat would it be to be able to specifically set the year range in GSA/skirmish and not just take the preset blocks?

Magnum357 · « **Reply #17 on:** May 13, 2003, 11:26:55 pm »

Hey Cleaven, I agree. Early years in SFC should have been referenced like they where in SFB like from Y70 to Y120, Middle Era between Y120 to Y170, and late Era between Y170 to Y220. I'm not sure when X2 ships appeared (I don't think ADB ever made a module on X2 ships) but could be placed after Y220.

Speaking of Pre-warp Romulans in the Early era, I remember somebody on the web making up some rules for the Romulans to use what the creator of the project called "Stutter Warp". Basically less advanced Warp Engines used by the Romulans in order to make Strategic movement and give their ships a little more "umph". Does anyone know what I'm talking about? I've been trying to find old custom made SFB stuff, but its difficult to find info anymore.

Cleaven · « **Reply #18 on:** May 14, 2003, 01:08:25 am »

Yes I do remember that website vaguely. I read all through it a year ago and think it may be on what's left of the SFB webring. It was interesting as an alternate SFB history, allowing for a fun campaign.

Pi-R · « **Reply #19 on:** May 12, 2003, 09:39:41 am »

Hi,

Can someone please explain to me how the years of SFC compare to those of SFB? I understand in Shiplist.txt the year 0 represent 2251, but in SFB timeline the four powers war between Klingons, Lyrans, Kzintis/Mirak and Hydrans lasted from Y158 to Y162.

Mog · « **Reply #20 on:** May 12, 2003, 09:44:37 am »

Well, going by dynaverse settings, Year 0 is Y163 in SFB

Cleaven · « **Reply #21 on:** May 12, 2003, 11:07:35 pm »

Which sort of corresponds to the start of mid-era when the Romulans get warp capable ships in 2260ish as per the SFC shiplist. There are a few variances from the SFB/F&E source material but some of those could just be errors lost in the pile of work that went into preparing the shiplist files.

Don't try and overlay SFC eras with SFB eras. SFC era's just define when faster drones appear, and even those starting times are not correct as per SFB, but it does give a bit of logic to the way SFC works so you can't argue too much with it.

Pi-R · « **Reply #22 on:** May 13, 2003, 01:07:25 am »

Thanks.

Do you also know when the middle and late era of SFC start in SFC years? I assume the early era starts at 0.

FireSoul · « **Reply #23 on:** May 13, 2003, 02:44:19 am »

< 0 (-2263) is early.
0-7 (2263-2270) is Mid
8-26 (2271-2289) is Late
> 26 (2290-) is Advanced.

Cleaven · « **Reply #24 on:** May 13, 2003, 03:56:19 am »

Those years are defined in the server setup files (same applies to single player campaign). But there are some issues with the way the program interprets what is year zero. There are experts on server config files who can help you with this.

Pi-R · « **Reply #25 on:** May 13, 2003, 07:22:06 am »

Thanks guys

Karnak · « **Reply #27 on:** May 13, 2003, 10:04:57 am »

My server is always setup for :

Early Era: 2263 to 2272.9
Middle Era: 2273 to 2282.9 *** ISC Inv. starts here at 2273 ***
Late Era: 2283 to 2293

The corresponding shiplist.txt YFA column uses:

Y163 for 2263
Y173 for 2273
Y183 for 2283

To compensate for using only two eras in ISC Inv. the number of turns for a year is doubled from 144 to 288.

If someone thinks is a bad idea let me know.

NuclearWessels · « **Reply #28 on:** May 13, 2003, 10:07:26 am »

Yes, the eras are defined differently for the different play modes - just to mess folks up and fuel arguments

As far as the dynaverse is concerned, it's labelled "early" through '72, then up in 10 year increments with advanced covering '93+

dave

jdmckinney · « **Reply #29 on:** May 13, 2003, 10:34:43 am »

Whew. Thanks, Dave. I thought I was going crazy.

So, FireSoul's numbers reflect GSA play, but D2 uses the 10-year increments.

That's just another inconsistency that drives me batty. So it goes.

Mog · « **Reply #30 on:** May 13, 2003, 11:16:09 am »

Doug, those dates in the .gf files can be altered, they are just the default ones.

Medium speed drones should appear around 2267 time and the fasts 2280, so I guess really, the gf file should be changed to correspond to these dates for accuracy purposes (Mid era 4, Late era 17).

FireSoul · « **Reply #31 on:** May 13, 2003, 01:13:31 pm »

Guys..

There's a lot more to SFC life than the D2!

Mog · « **Reply #32 on:** May 13, 2003, 01:26:24 pm »

Yeah, been there, done that, Firesoul. Done the Mpig/Gamespy thing. I miss the days of 3-400 people online on Mpig, but dyna play means more than just points for your fleet, or yourself. The battles are much more satisfying, as you rarely get a matched fight (I'm talking pvp here, not ai). For example, on AOTK, me in a heavy cruiser engaged Flufbot in his DN. I fought him for 43 minutes, dishing out more damage than I received, till he left the map. For those 43 minutes I helped my alliance by stopping him running successful missions, whilst they ran missions under him, and I cost him some prestige too, and we both had fun (least he says he did

). You can't really get that duelling on GSA. What GSA play is good for, is practising. I enjo the occasional session on there, but dyna is a more fulfilling venue.

jdmckinney · « **Reply #33 on:** May 13, 2003, 01:38:10 pm »

Point taken, FS, but I just didn't know both modes had different era breaks. I really don't play GSA except to test shiplists, because I'm a D2 guy at heart. My main concern here was just establishing what the defaults are for eras, so anyone wondering wouldn't get inaccurate information.

Now it's pretty clear what the defaults are, and that for D2 the eras are not hard-locked into the game.

FireSoul · « **Reply #34 on:** May 13, 2003, 02:46:07 pm »

Originally, I thought "Advanced" started on 2300.. but I later discovered it wasn't the case.. Taldren merely put all xships YFAs at 2300 (37) and didn't bother adding depth to it.

.. since discovering that, a coopace 3.01 came out for OP to work with the added data, and the shiplist has gained X1 ships in the 2290s.. with Taldren's xships in the 2300s, staggered in date in a similar fashion as the X1 ships from SFB were.

Anyways, please take the values above as authoritive, and discovered through intense shiplist testing with standard multiplayer and GSA.

-- Luc

Cleaven · « **Reply #35 on:** May 13, 2003, 05:23:36 pm »

The real practical definition of "Early Era" in SFB terms is that time when the Romulans didn't have warp tech. Once they had access to the Klingon tech, and became warp capable, with WB+ and KR, then Mid Era and the lead up to the General War is upon us.

In D2 play, the ONLY THING that you get from a change in era's is faster drones, and those default dates are wrong too.

So when somebody says lets start in Early, this literally means thats the Romulans should start in sub-light ships. Early Mid-Era is what they really mean, but most people don't think about this when they can only relate to the Early-Mid-Late button in GSA/Skirmish mode, and the ships that they get access to.

Now how neat would it be to be able to specifically set the year range in GSA/skirmish and not just take the preset blocks?

Magnum357 · « **Reply #36 on:** May 13, 2003, 11:26:55 pm »

Hey Cleaven, I agree. Early years in SFC should have been referenced like they where in SFB like from Y70 to Y120, Middle Era between Y120 to Y170, and late Era between Y170 to Y220. I'm not sure when X2 ships appeared (I don't think ADB ever made a module on X2 ships) but could be placed after Y220.

Speaking of Pre-warp Romulans in the Early era, I remember somebody on the web making up some rules for the Romulans to use what the creator of the project called "Stutter Warp". Basically less advanced Warp Engines used by the Romulans in order to make Strategic movement and give their ships a little more "umph". Does anyone know what I'm talking about? I've been trying to find old custom made SFB stuff, but its difficult to find info anymore.

Cleaven · « **Reply #37 on:** May 14, 2003, 01:08:25 am »

Yes I do remember that website vaguely. I read all through it a year ago and think it may be on what's left of the SFB webring. It was interesting as an alternate SFB history, allowing for a fun campaign.

Bonk · « **Reply #38 on:** July 04, 2004, 09:39:32 pm »

bump for drb...

762_XC · « **Reply #39 on:** July 06, 2004, 07:40:38 pm »

Short answer to this question:

2263 (SFC) = 0 (shiplist) = Y163 (SFB)

For those who are wondering, Y1 in SFB is when the UFP was founded.

News:

Topic: SFC versus SFB years (Read 5401 times) var addthis_config = {"data_track_clickback":true};

Pi-R

Mog

Cleaven

Pi-R

FireSoul

Cleaven

Pi-R

jdmckinney

Karnak

NuclearWessels

jdmckinney

Mog

FireSoul

Mog

jdmckinney

FireSoul

Cleaven

Magnum357

Cleaven

Pi-R

Mog

Cleaven

Pi-R

FireSoul

Cleaven

Pi-R

jdmckinney

Karnak

NuclearWessels

jdmckinney

Mog

FireSoul

Mog

jdmckinney

FireSoul

Cleaven

Magnum357

Cleaven

762_XC

Topic: SFC versus SFB years (Read 5401 times)