Topic: OP+ corrections thread (Read 70341 times)

TarMinyatur · « **Reply #60 on:** May 18, 2003, 04:56:08 pm »

Actually, the Ship Class ("Class Type") determines more than Dynaverse stuff, it affects Hit&Run vulnerability since 2.0055.

H&R Modifier:

Frigate and Carrier = 9/6
Destroyer = 9/7
War Destroyer = 9/8
Light Cruiser = 9/9
Heavy Cruiser, New Heavy Cruiser, and Special = 9/10
Heavy Battlecruiser = 9/12
Dreadnought = 9/14
Battleship = 9/16

Here's the H&R formula:

(20-(DefendingMarines*Modifier))/60 = Vulnerability

So a ship with no marines has a vulnerability of 20/60 or 0.33 or 33%.
Note that the product of DefendingMarines*Modifier has an upper limit of 16, which means a minimum vulnerability of 0.067 or 6.7%.

The_Infiltrator · « **Reply #61 on:** May 18, 2003, 07:21:54 pm »

Quote:

Some very good points there. Note the D6 has LESS shielding than the D5

I looked at this about 6 times and missed that, thank you.

Quote:

... and a worse power curve. Actually, most players would take a D5 over a D7. The D5 is a war cruiser, so really the Klingons, as with other races, skip CLs altogether. They don't actually have ANY. Upon examination of your arguments, and looking at the Hydrans as a common foe with similar ship production, the D6s are like unrefitted DGs -- poor cruisers that are best used as hulls to build variants from.

There's nothing "poor" about a DG or RN. They are good ships actually. Your analogy is incorrect IMO; a better comparison is the DG/RN against the D7/D6, or the DG+/RN+ against the D7B/D6B. Though the Hydran has the advantage here. This is intentional. Something that unfortunately can't be simulated correctly is the issue of numbers, and production costs and priorities. The klingons decided that "quantity has a quality all of it's own" since ADB based them loosely off of the soviet union. A quick check of my appendix of F&E 2K shows that, at the start of fighting of the general war, the hydran kingdom could muster 55 total combat vessels. This number increases somewhat if you factor in the expansions, but not by a significant number. The Klingon empire on the other hand, has 148 combat ships in it's various fleets. Not only that, but they also have a reserve fleet with another 15 ships, and a mothballed fleet (requires EP to activate) of 32 D6, 12 F5, 12 E4. To the hydran and Kzinti players in the early going it does not matter if your ships are superior to the klingon's, it is like trying to break a tidal wave. Also, a DG and RN cost 10 EP each (counting fighter factors) while a D6 and D7 costs 8.

What does this mean? Only that a D6 is a heavy cruiser, that is inferior because it's supposed to be inferior. The D7 is the same thing basically. These are klingon design decisions. What's really needed in the D2 play is perhaps having racial adjustments to ship pricing. A hydran CA costs X while a klingon one costs Y. IMO though we're facing a program limitation and I don't know if there's anything that can be done about it really.

Magnum357 · « **Reply #63 on:** May 20, 2003, 09:00:22 pm »

Hey guys, just a quick question. Does this shiplist include Monitors? I never really checked if the original OP shiplist ever included them.

FireSoul · « **Reply #64 on:** May 20, 2003, 10:10:50 pm »

Yes.

.. why?

Magnum357 · « **Reply #66 on:** May 21, 2003, 01:06:21 am »

I was just curious Fire Soul. Harly anybody in SFC and SFB mentions them much, but I find them a very facinating type of ship. lumbering beasts that have a heck of amount of firepower yet slower then crap. Never really tried them before in SFC. But now I know why, Taldren never included them.

FireSoul · « **Reply #67 on:** May 21, 2003, 01:35:37 am »

Taldren included *1* Monitor in SFC:OP: The LDR one.

.. .. anyways.
.. note to self:

Check to redo weapons on ISC CMs.
.. also, check fighterlist for H-WASP costs.

FireSoul · « **Reply #68 on:** May 22, 2003, 02:04:33 am »

Note to self:

The Z-MBT(+) aka Z-MTT-B needs to have its disruptors reorganized. Just 2 banks for 5 dizzies seems odd.

FireSoul · « **Reply #69 on:** May 22, 2003, 04:39:03 am »

Note to self:

The plasma-race's HDWs need to have both a Plasma-D and Ph1 variant for their HDWEs. Similarly, the Klingon's HF5E and the Mirak HDWE should have both a ph1 and a ADD12 variant. The Fed HDWE should have both a ph1 and Drone-G variant. The hydran's HDWE is fine, with the extra phGs. The lyran HDWE is stuck with ph1s, I guess.

jdmckinney · « **Reply #70 on:** May 22, 2003, 06:43:14 am »

I don't have the heavy destroyer option mount rules in front of me. Question: are ESGs (at 1 per 2 weapon boxes?) prohibited from the weapon option spots on Lyran HDWs? If not, an ESG version would be a good second escort variant.

FireSoul · « **Reply #71 on:** May 22, 2003, 06:55:12 am »

Yes, it's prohibited.. for 2 reasons too.

1- HDWs are Size-class 4. Option-mount rules state the ship needs to be size-class 3 or larger.

2- the 2 option mounts are considered 'hull mounted', but are not together. They can't be used this way.
.. in fact, the only HDW with 2 weapon options that are together is the Gorn's..
.. hence, there are more Grn HBD variants:
HBD1: 2x PlasmaFs RH (AP)
HBD2: 1x PlasmaG RH (AP) (!!!)
HBD3: 2x PlasmaD RAR/RAL arc to simulate RPR/LPR arc. (this could also have been "RH" by the rules)
HBD4: 2x Ph1 (I always made at least one of these per race)

Note that the ISC's HDD has RH PlasmaDs and the 2 rear plasmas are in a single mount: I ran out of mounts for it. Maybe I should put the ship on a larger model? I could then split the rear optionmounts and give the plasma-Ds separate arcs for better coverage, as well as separate pseudos for the Fs.

-- Luc

jdmckinney · « **Reply #72 on:** May 22, 2003, 02:09:27 pm »

I suspected as much. No HDW-sized EGOs, then.

Is there a 3-ESG ship in the current list? I haven't looked closely at the Lyran specs, but I seem to remember a battle tug or somesuch having a total of 3 ESGs when using a pallet. I've always thought a 3-ESG ship would be a good thing on a cruiser, so you have something between the CAs and the 4-ESG BC(H)s. I'll have to crack a few SSD books to satisfy my curiosity now.

Rod O'neal · « **Reply #73 on:** May 22, 2003, 02:48:37 pm »

In SFB, the Lyran and LDR LBTs (Light Battle Transport) have three ESGs with the Klink battle pod.

The_Infiltrator · « **Reply #75 on:** May 22, 2003, 04:30:57 pm »

Something to consider: FRD's aren't armed like they are supposed to be. Plus, bases need work. There's a lot more combinations you can have depending on what modules are mounted.

The_Infiltrator · « **Reply #77 on:** May 23, 2003, 12:05:59 am »

I hate to tell you this, but ph-3 armed planets won't work. This idea was tried long ago and the problem is that all weapons on a planet are put at it's "core", IE the center of the model. The range of the ph-3 is low enough so that the planet's radius, the surface, is out of range of the weapon. They therefore are totally ineffective. Same reason you can't put fighters or drones on a planet; they "impact" the inner surface of the planet and destroy themselves. Plasmas will fire and escape the core, however, you'll hear a nice series of collision noises as the plasma round penetrates the planet's shell as it moves on it's way to you.

I didn't design the way it works, I just play it.

FireSoul · « **Reply #78 on:** May 23, 2003, 12:24:29 am »

well, that sucks.

Magnum357 · « **Reply #79 on:** May 23, 2003, 01:18:37 am »

I wonder, if a 3D modeler reduces the scale of the planet models, would that in effect reduce inside edge of the planet where it would do that? I know how to use Milkshape, I could experiment this to see if it would work.

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Topic: OP+ corrections thread (Read 70341 times) var addthis_config = {"data_track_clickback":true};

TarMinyatur

The_Infiltrator

Cleaven

Magnum357

FireSoul

jimmi7769

Magnum357

FireSoul

FireSoul

FireSoul

jdmckinney

FireSoul

jdmckinney

Rod O'neal

Strafer

The_Infiltrator

FireSoul

The_Infiltrator

FireSoul

Magnum357

Topic: OP+ corrections thread (Read 70341 times)