Topic: OP+ corrections thread

[Holocat]

So... you want a cartel shiplist wishlist?

Any rules to loadouts that you might want to tell us about?  

Mar har har and a can of cat treats,

Holocat.

[Strafer]

Usual limitations are that the fleet has 70% local empirical weapons, 20% neighboring weapons and 10% exotic.

[Holocat]

What, exactly, would that entail for a single ship?  that out of ten weapons no more than one can be 'exotic'?  I'm unsure how one can reflect this at the fleet level, since there isn't a real fleet level unless someone tried to do an OoB server with that in place...

If a ship can have any number of any kind of weapons it wants (provided it falls into the 10% of this 'fleet,' or wherever), isn't that simply a carte blanche for a pirate shipbuilder?

To be specific, what are the limitations for loadouts for each hull class?  How many primaries?  How many heavies?  How much power etc. etc. etc.  I don't have an SFB shipbuilder's manual with me so I know precious little on what's legal and what's not.

I guess, to be succinct, I don't really understand the question on loadouts without more information.

Holocat.

[FireSoul]

Quote:
Usual limitations are that the fleet has 70% local empirical weapons, 20% neighboring weapons and 10% exotic.  

I'll allow 70% local zone and 20% operational zone weapons. The 10% I already took up.
I guess to do this you need to know some basic ground rules, and a little about SFB:

1- most weapons take a single option mount. Some weapons take 2 and have to be hull mounted.
ie:
  - PLaG
  - ESG
  - PLaS
  - PPD

2- phasers are allowed. None of the taldren pirates have phasers in optionmounts. Let's not go nuts on phaser boats tho.

3- cloak is also allowed, but only a fraction of all pirates had cloak. I'll try to distribute the cloakable ships appropirately.

[FireSoul]

Quote:

If a ship can have any number of any kind of weapons it wants (provided it falls into the 10% of this 'fleet,' or wherever), isn't that simply a carte blanche for a pirate shipbuilder?

I guess it's more of a question that you'd have to know what's available where and how on which ships. .. I guess this demand mostly goes to people with SFB material.
Here's are online examples: Tournament ship SSDs  (ignore the special tournament rules written on it)
 T-BR
 T-CA

In these examples, you'll notice "OPT" mounts on the wings .. and some in the hull itself, at the front.
The T-CA has 2 hull mounts, together, and 4 wing mounts.

So.. I could put 4 droneracks on the wings, and .. say.. 2 HBs in front. That's one example.
Or.. 4ph1s in wings, 2 photons in front..
or.. (non-tourney rules) .. 2 plaDs, 2plaFs in wings, and 1 PLaS in front. (ohh.. that would be nice. )

.. you get the idea.


I want to know which race, and the loadout you would like to see that I haven't put together.
Localzone is local empire. IE: Prime Industries is Romulan.
Openrational zone is the area working in. IE: Prime functions in Fed and ISC space, as well as within Roluman space itself.

70% of the weapons have to come from Local, 20% from operational zone. Consider the other 10% (from anywhere) already taken.



Oh.. and I already have phaser gunboats.. a few ships from Beastraiders with nothing but gatlings for example. I think I'll be fine and no need for more of THOSE.


-- Luc

[MadElf]

An Easier way to know what sorts/dispersions of weapons that were avaliable would be to look at the already existing taldren pirate loadouts, that'll show you bt default what the operational zones and weapon loadout predisposition of the races would be.  Just mix an d match, try and avoid cheese  

[FireSoul]

nothing's wrong with cheese if it's valid.  

[MadElf]

Then lets have those klingon SFB fighters that were actually useful    

[The_Infiltrator]

I'd have to agree with that, but that's a different discussion thread.

[jdmckinney]

A side note about Orions and phaser boats: I have seen some SFB tournament rundowns that indicate Orion phaser boats can be quite successful. Actually, it's amazing how often some of the SFB Online tournaments have Orions in the later rounds (and also odd how few players choose Fed). For instance, look at the following tournament results and you'll see 3 of the 4 Orions made it to the fourth round (last one shown, still in progress):

http://www.sfbonline.com/ra03q2.htm

In another case, 2 Orions faced each other in the final match. Granted, these players have good overall track records. Plus, there's something to be said for being able to choose a configuration that suits your style of play. I noticed that of the 5 option mounts on the Orion tournament ship (BR), a PhG is almost always chosen for one (and they are only allowed one in the rules I saw). There are often 2 Ph1s chosen, as well. That would give a player with such a TBR 6 Ph1, 6 Ph3, and 1 PhG plus 2 heavies (hellbore, droB, plasF seem common).

[IndyShark]

Firesoul, is the F-CVLR supposed to have only 6 marines? As a CA based ship, it is too easy to capture.

[FireSoul]

Quote:
A side note about Orions and phaser boats: I have seen some SFB tournament rundowns that indicate Orion phaser boats can be quite successful. Actually, it's amazing how often some of the SFB Online tournaments have Orions in the later rounds (and also odd how few players choose Fed). For instance, look at the following tournament results and you'll see 3 of the 4 Orions made it to the fourth round (last one shown, still in progress):

http://www.sfbonline.com/ra03q2.htm

In another case, 2 Orions faced each other in the final match. Granted, these players have good overall track records. Plus, there's something to be said for being able to choose a configuration that suits your style of play. I noticed that of the 5 option mounts on the Orion tournament ship (BR), a PhG is almost always chosen for one (and they are only allowed one in the rules I saw). There are often 2 Ph1s chosen, as well. That would give a player with such a TBR 6 Ph1, 6 Ph3, and 1 PhG plus 2 heavies (hellbore, droB, plasF seem common).  

I already have added quite a few phaser boats to my shiplist under various races. There aren't any restrictions as to how many phGs you're allowed to have. One of my favorite is the little B-LRg I made. It's in the shiplist since version 2.0.

Quote:

Designation: B-LRg
BPV: 72
3x Phaser 1
3x Phaser G

heh.

-- Luc

[jdmckinney]

I didn't mean to suggest the normal rules don't allow maximum phaser armament, just that the SFB Online tourney rules had a limit of 1 PhG, and people chose to use that option a lot.

[FireSoul]

Assuming the phX won't be fixed (so that they are allowed to do PD by default, for AI) for the next patch.

.. what if we were to replace 2 phX by 3 ph1s  (or 4 phXs to 6 using ph1s if I have to do it on 2 sides of the ship) to allow PD? I really really don't like the idea of putting gatlings on X1 ships, and ph1s are the closest to phX that are capable of PD on AI.

.. so .. what do you think? Replacing 2phX by 3 ph1s on the F-CX would be replacing the 2 360 degree phX with 3 ph1s. Stuff like that.


Really. What do you think?
-- Luc

[Rod O'neal]

I thought that this might help to guide people on what is and what isn't OK for option mts. I listed it as a link rather than an image because some browsers want to do strange things with it. IE shrinks it down for example, or if you compress your graphics it's not readable. It's a listing of the opt. mt rules and annex #8b, which lists the weapons and the bpv costs. Download it if your browser doesn't won't let you read it.  

http://members.aol.com/rocketrod6a/images/opt_mts.jpg    

[The_Infiltrator]

Firesoul, I found some...interesting...facts when I was doing some research about klingon carriers for another thread.

What is up with the D7V and D6V?

Their BPV's are listed as 135 and 147 respectively. The problem is that according to my captian's edition SSD's these are supposed to be the real BPV's of the ships:

D6V BPV: 114, K refit +3, Y175 refit (AMD-6 to AMD-12) +3, UIM refit +5. Total with everything: 125.
D7V BPV: 123, K refit +3, UIM refit +5. Total with everything: 131.

What's up here? The BPV additions for stock fighters figure in, but is it this much? The D6V also has too many fighters; it has only 10 in SFB.

Note: this is in the STOCK shiplist, which is carried over into yours.

[FireSoul]

let's see.. time to do some math.

D7V: 123 + 5 for UIM (auto)  + 2*8 for fighters = 144   (147 here)
D7VK: +3 = 147  (150 here)

D6V: 114 +5 for UIM (auto) + 2*8 for fighters = 135  (127 here)
D6VK: +3 = 138  (130 here)
D6VR: +3 = 141 (133 here)

The last time I tried to adjust the number of fighters for all the ships at once, people harked at me for quite some time. So I'll leave the number of fighters alone. (D7V would have have 9. D6V would have 7). As for the BPVs, I can correct the values for these if you want.

-- Luc

[The_Infiltrator]

I suppose my problem stems from the disbelief that a D7V is worth anywhere near 147 BPV. A fully loaded D7VK with 12 Z-V fighters is 227.

I see where the numbers come from now, not that I agree with them. Something on the order of 135 seems more like sense, but I won't pester you with it.

[FireSoul]

Those current base fighters only have 1 ph3 each and cost only 2 BPV each. I tell you, buy some bloackader.IIIs .. 8 BPV each..  (they're crap.)

.. well.. let's see.  the cost of upgrading fighters in SFC:
8x8BPV - 8x2BPV(base cost) = 64 - 16 = 48 BPV.

147 + 48 = 195BPV.

[FireSoul]

Note to self:

Had fantasic idea tonight. HDWs could use a new variant. I call it the "M" variant for "Marine Assault".

Let me explain. In in HDW, there are some Non-weapon options NWOs) and a couple of rear-facing weapon options (OPT). There's also a block of APR boxes that can be changed into something else (all boxes to a different type).

ie:
To make a LEGAL commando ship, I had to change all 4 APRs into shuttlebays, 2 NWOs into Cargo and 2 NWOs into barracks. The ship's own Transporter would suffice. The extra shuttles would be ground-assault shuttles and heavy assault shuttles that exist in SFB to take on planets and bases.

The "M" Marine Assault HDW idea would revolve solely on H&R tactics. The NWOs would be 100% transporters, except for when that would be excessive for the number of marines on the ship. the ship's power would be intact.

Here's the result:  (Each barracks holds an extra 10 marines, base, onto the ship)
Fed: 6 transporters
Klingon: 6 transporters
Rom: 6 trans
Gorn: 5 trans
Lyran HDWM: 6 Trans
Lyran JGPM: 7 trans, 1 barracks
Hydran HDWM: 6 trans
Hydran LNHM: 6 trans
Mirak: 6 trans, 1 barracks
ISC: 6 trans

and.. get this..
Orion: 9 trans, 3 barracks


This is a LEGAL interpretation of the HDWs. This could OUTCLASS the HDWCs in popularity.

-- Luc