Topic: Staying Power of this Old game  (Read 3214 times)

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Hondo_8

  • Guest
Staying Power of this Old game
« on: April 27, 2003, 02:07:16 pm »
I want to extend a thank you, a BIG thank you for all those folks who continue to improve this game. There time, effort, sweet and blood have truley extended the life of this wonderfull game. I want to thank Taldren for keeping the Dynaverse2 up and running. thank you.



Now for my thoughts. What is it about this game that attracts players, and keeps there intrest? We all know by now its n ot the graphics, while not horrible but neither up to standards of today. Is it the flawless game play? LOL nope this game has seen more patches then we have black flies in Maine. We all know what magic this game holds on us, is Game Play, the depth of stratagy, the abilty to introduce new ships and missions in to the mix, and the most important factor is the people who still play.

Why is it after two years that people are still around? Still playing? What is it about his game that produces a long term addiction. Yes it is addiction, you can go away for awile but then there is anagging in the back of your head, a calling to see whats new, who is still playing, and with out a doubt you know that there will be somting new, and that your Old buddied are still flying around. And that the seconod you log in to play a game yout wife is on the phone to her mother asking if she can come home, hehe.

I say this becouse I want the powers to know that this game is magical, and that it should be taken advantage of. Yes I know that the roaring debates of SFBvs TheSF2 game mechinics has been a hot issue, but people still played.  with all the flame wars and hut feelings, folks recovered and played. I want somthing, I want this SF2 to be turned into SF4.  The market is ready for a truley inspiring space sim.  Look at FreeLancer a good succes, but has not the depth of Sf2, Imagine a game with sf2 depth and the flair of Freelancer.


I really really believe that sf2 has the bases to be turned into truly inspiring game, Im talking a a game that goes beyond the Trek lines.  Will we ever see somthing like this?  Yes I think we will.  The question is who will take the plunge to develop sucha game?



The grammer technician.

IndyShark

  • Guest
Re: Staying Power of this Old game
« Reply #1 on: April 27, 2003, 02:46:36 pm »
IMHO, this is the best game ever made! I've been playing SFC almost non stop for two years. I take a break to play other games for a few weeks and come "home".  I have not found another game with the complexity and challenge of this series.  Call me crazy, but I think about GAW every day.  

I would like to recognize people like Firesoul, NuclearWessels, MagnumMan and many others for making this game better than ever. If we ever fix the D2, watch out!

 

SghnDubh

  • Guest
Re: Staying Power of this Old game
« Reply #2 on: April 27, 2003, 02:59:51 pm »

If you don't mind me butting in, I think it's a combination of several things:

1. In many ways, it is the fulfilment of our imaginations. Even miniatures on a big black hex map, laid out on somebody's dining room table, pales in comparision to the ability that SFC gives us to actually "pilot" these beautiful capital ships.

2. The community. There is simply not a better set of gamers anywhere. Period.

Great question, thanks for letting me respond!

Green

  • Guest
Re: Staying Power of this Old game
« Reply #3 on: April 27, 2003, 03:05:55 pm »
Great post Hondo.  Many of us (most?) have 50+ computers games on a shelf in the room.  At $40-50 a pop, that is a lot of money spent.  So it does beg the question why we are still playing the same game after all this time.  

I do think you hit on the answer and so does SghnDubh ... it is the community.  Yes, we are not all sitting around a big hex map in somebody's house.  But it is very close to the same experience.

Karnak

  • Guest
Re: Staying Power of this Old game
« Reply #4 on: April 27, 2003, 06:35:36 pm »
The community.

I remember a saying from a President Eisenhower documentary stating that Ike's favorite past-time was to have a simple poker game on a Saturday night with his friends.  

Goose

  • Guest
Re: Staying Power of this Old game
« Reply #5 on: April 27, 2003, 08:27:02 pm »
A bunch of old soldiers sitting around having a few drinks...

"I love you guyssshhh!"

Seems kinda corny I know, but it does fit. The community is what makes me stay.

Kroma_BaSyl

  • Guest
Re: Staying Power of this Old game
« Reply #6 on: April 27, 2003, 09:00:19 pm »
Quote:

A bunch of old soldiers sitting around having a few drinks...

"I love you guyssshhh!"

Seems kinda corny I know, but it does fit. The community is what makes me stay.  




Someone is in the Kat nip again.

Cleaven

  • Guest
Re: Staying Power of this Old game
« Reply #7 on: April 27, 2003, 09:55:43 pm »
Talonsoft's "The Operational Art of War - A Century of Warfare" is quite old too. It's a 2000 "gold" release (more scenarios, equipment and fully patched) of the 1998 version, and Norm Koger has just put out another patch for better XP compatibility. Rumour is that he has returned to the game with significant intention to add at least one significantly new feature, as well as a few more PvP gameplay enhancements. I am assuming there will be a couple of open beta's since he is doing this all himself.

I would like to think that after Taldren is rich following Black 9, they might return briefly to OP with "significant intention" etc etc.  

SSCF_Paladin

  • Guest
Re: Staying Power of this Old game
« Reply #8 on: April 27, 2003, 09:58:38 pm »
I wuv all you peeplezz! *sobs*  

The game appeals to my overactive imagination, and I've always like strategy games and flight sims.  This is both in one.  All those hours plotting out my evil schemes playing SFB... I live them again here.

You hit it on the head... the community rocks!  The missions are better, the shiplists more balanced... the gameplay is still evolving.

I've been trying to find this game in shops everywhere so I can give them to my friends I used to play SFB with.  They don't know what they're missing, and my war-stories don't have the punch and effect of a full overloaded salvo of photons crunching their target.  I've never become tired of it.

My jaw dropped the first time I saw the battle in Revenge of Kahn.... and continued to do so the other countless times I rewound the movie just to watch that sequence over and over again.

I know I'm a newer player here, and I'm usually quiet over RW for some reason I don't quite understand... I'm a musician, and hesitating to speak into a mic is a strange concept to me.  But I'm listening to every word, and having a laugh here and there with the rest of you twisted-minded people.  Damn, some of the posts and clips on these boards have sent me to the floor choking, laughing so hard!

Thanks for all the good times, and I'm looking forward to the good times ahead.

Scipio_66

  • Guest
Re: Staying Power of this Old game
« Reply #9 on: April 28, 2003, 12:41:07 am »
Quote:


I've been trying to find this game in shops everywhere so I can give them to my friends I used to play SFB with.  They don't know what they're missing, and my war-stories don't have the punch and effect of a full overloaded salvo of photons crunching their target.  I've never become tired of it.
 





You can try purchasing online from MicroCenter.  See here, and scroll down to the last entry.  According to the site, EAW is selling for 20 dollars American, and usually ships in 1 to 3 days.  (I just ran this search today, so the results are current as of 4/28/03)  I can verify the price as that is what it sells for on the Microcenter shelf in my town.  I can't confirm the shipping time.

http://www.microcenter.com/search_results_e.phtml?coordinate_group=N2A2


I think the reason for the longetivity is the source material.  Good games tend to attract a quality core audience, and to hang around for a long time.  I first started playing SFB in 1979, and the game is still going today.  (I just bought a new Captain's Log magazine, a new Module, and several new miniatures three weeks ago.)  Not many of the games I purchased in that era are still around on the hobby-store shelf.

-S'Cipio
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 06:00:00 pm by Scipio_66 »

Holocat

  • Guest
Re: Staying Power of this Old game
« Reply #10 on: April 28, 2003, 01:56:21 am »
Hm.  I'd be lying if I said that it didn't feed my imagination, but that's not the biggest reason why I still play it.

The among oldest games on my computer are XCOM, Master of Magic and Star Control 2 (it's been re-released as freeware, btw).  Among the newer games that I still remember would be such as Age of Sail II: Privateer's Bounty.  Why i'm still playing these, well over six years after they were released is markedly similar to why I still play Starfleet Command or AoS2:PB.

I would say why i'm still here is because of the depth of play.  Just like sweating at the screen, wondering if there's a plasma toting alien around the darkened corner, or exploring the depths of space in the Vindicator, eyes open for minerals, or the fluffy, happy feeling one gets when a stalwart group of settlers stop and become the new outpost of your magical Myrrian empire, I would say it's the sheer emersion of play that keeps me hooked.  When closing with a plasma user, as a fed I watch that range counter like someone counting the seconds to the midnight hour, desperately hoping that the plasma fired at my ally wasn't a psudeo;  When fighting klingons I can almost hear the hiss of a coolant line bursting when that D7 hits me over and over again, never allowing the pressure to drop, in my engines or in my tatical situation.

In games such as these there's more 'personality.' (when and where multiplayer is relavant;  XCOM and MoM need player designed patches to do multi-play) What happens in the game is linked both to the race that is played, and the mentality of the player.  Like in AoS2, preference of the player means alot more in this game than, say, Diablo.  Proxies or overloads?  Given the right ship, both are valid tatics;  What one will choose depends alot more on the captain than the ship itself (and, probably, if the fed's a good fed, their opponent's ship).  Like in AoS2, some people like the bigger ships.  The ships 'o the line.  The 1st-2nd class vessels with multiple gun decks and a hull that can take a beating.  Others prefer those small ships, the frigates and even sloops of the day;  Smaller, faster, and in trouble if it ends up in a battleship's gunsights.  Some prefer that ancient combination between the two that's the basis for all modern cruisers;  Knock the little ones and run from the big ones.  And of course, there's even more variety within, such as the british tendency to overgun their ships with carronade, making genuine smashers... if you're crazy to get close enough.  Inbetween the BB's, the DN's, the CA's, the DD's, the FF's and all their variants, most of us that have stuck around have a ship 'personality'; a prefered hull class perhaps, or a prefered race (in the same way the French over marined their ships in the age of sail, so do klingons).

Most of all, in these games there is sufficient complexity that there is always choice, which leads to the implication that victory is done generally through better captaincy as opposed to a better ship.  It's not a chess game;  It's not a proscribed A defeats B such as Master of Orion 2's techwar like strategy.  It's not a game purely of numbers, like the production twitch fests that Starcraft, Command and Conquer, and such related games can easily become.  It's a game like Heavy Gear 1, where the equipment you're given is a third of the equasion, and the other two thirds is your ablity to use that equipment to it's fullest potential.  Although it's too late, to be succinct, the victory generally comes from thinking, rather than a proscribed formula or ablity to do the same thing faster than someone else.  There is a point where seconds will count (as in all real time games) and a DN will defeat a FF 95% of the time, but rather than the norm, these are the extremes in an otherwise very well thought out tatical game.  The endless tatical combinations that can create victory or defeat is what keeps me hooked more than anything else, and is what will keep me playing for many years to come.

As i've stated exaustivly before, I came across SFC by accident;  In a fun pack of multiple games.  I didn't think that SFC 1 would be much more than another mediocre trek sim, but after playing it for a few minutes I saw the potential.  From that moment I was utterly hooked, grabbing OP as soon as it hit the shelves (I was unaware of the community at large and the time, and the stigma that apparently surrounded OP, but eh.)  In the sleepless months that followed I tried every day to get a little better at firing my alpha, a little smarter at where my energy went, and a little wiser as to what the enemy would do, computer or otherwise.  You know, I never *did* end up trying those other games in the trek pack...
 
In summary, it would be the depth of immersion, the game's 'personality', and above all it's overwhelming complexity that keeps me hooked to the game.

Yes, you could probably consider me a hardcore strategy/tabletop tatics gamer,

Holocat.

P.S.  The word succinct has no place *anywhere* in this and I apologize for using it twice in this document.  Thank you.

 

**DONOTDELETE**

  • Guest
Re: Staying Power of this Old game
« Reply #11 on: April 28, 2003, 08:51:02 am »
 Brotherhood
 Leadership
 Addiction
 Community
 Klingons

 Friendship
 Laughs
 Elation
 Experiences
 T-Bombs  
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 06:00:00 pm by crimnick »

Green

  • Guest
Re: Staying Power of this Old game
« Reply #12 on: April 28, 2003, 12:42:38 pm »
The ability to change the game.  New shiplists, missions, and graphics.  Kinda neat to fly a MTT-CAV, admitedly very slowly, but with a lot of firepower (thanks FireSoul).  And to see and fight Tholians (thanks Diz et al), and to fly in numerous different missions (thanks ED, Tracey, Scip, Karnak, and others).  And to be able to talk and chat (thanks to all who host RWs, forums, and returned IRC chat to the game).  All because people put servers up ... thanks.

Karnak

  • Guest
Re: Staying Power of this Old game
« Reply #13 on: April 28, 2003, 10:47:48 pm »
Cool, Holocat.  AoS2:PB is a favorite game of mine too. Did you ever play Man of War 2?  That was an awesome first-person experience.  As l'Amiral de la Marine Imperiale Francais, I led the French fleet to 2nd place in an Age of Nelson RPG.  The deesspicalble Anglais won again. Eh bien, c'est la guerre.
You can count me as a SOL capitaine although I was pretty highly rated frigate duellest also.  I also designed some wicked SOLs by playing around with the MoW2 editor.  The Fleet and Squadron Action mission I made for LB3 are partly based on the strict Line of Battle rules we used in the RPG.

I really enjoyed your post. It brought back some good memories of the great fight for la Liberte, Fraternite et Equalite, hehe.

Anytime, you want to run out the guns, let's dance on GSA. I have a couple of good trusty seadog friends in AoS2:PB and Mow2. Like SFC2 the playerbase is kinda small sometimes.  I guess it's fate...

Quote:

Hm.  I'd be lying if I said that it didn't feed my imagination, but that's not the biggest reason why I still play it.

The among oldest games on my computer are XCOM, Master of Magic and Star Control 2 (it's been re-released as freeware, btw).  Among the newer games that I still remember would be such as Age of Sail II: Privateer's Bounty.  Why i'm still playing these, well over six years after they were released is markedly similar to why I still play Starfleet Command or AoS2:PB.

I would say why i'm still here is because of the depth of play.  Just like sweating at the screen, wondering if there's a plasma toting alien around the darkened corner, or exploring the depths of space in the Vindicator, eyes open for minerals, or the fluffy, happy feeling one gets when a stalwart group of settlers stop and become the new outpost of your magical Myrrian empire, I would say it's the sheer emersion of play that keeps me hooked.  When closing with a plasma user, as a fed I watch that range counter like someone counting the seconds to the midnight hour, desperately hoping that the plasma fired at my ally wasn't a psudeo;  When fighting klingons I can almost hear the hiss of a coolant line bursting when that D7 hits me over and over again, never allowing the pressure to drop, in my engines or in my tatical situation.

In games such as these there's more 'personality.' (when and where multiplayer is relavant;  XCOM and MoM need player designed patches to do multi-play) What happens in the game is linked both to the race that is played, and the mentality of the player.  Like in AoS2, preference of the player means alot more in this game than, say, Diablo.  Proxies or overloads?  Given the right ship, both are valid tatics;  What one will choose depends alot more on the captain than the ship itself (and, probably, if the fed's a good fed, their opponent's ship).  Like in AoS2, some people like the bigger ships.  The ships 'o the line.  The 1st-2nd class vessels with multiple gun decks and a hull that can take a beating.  Others prefer those small ships, the frigates and even sloops of the day;  Smaller, faster, and in trouble if it ends up in a battleship's gunsights.  Some prefer that ancient combination between the two that's the basis for all modern cruisers;  Knock the little ones and run from the big ones.  And of course, there's even more variety within, such as the british tendency to overgun their ships with carronade, making genuine smashers... if you're crazy to get close enough.  Inbetween the BB's, the DN's, the CA's, the DD's, the FF's and all their variants, most of us that have stuck around have a ship 'personality'; a prefered hull class perhaps, or a prefered race (in the same way the French over marined their ships in the age of sail, so do klingons).

Most of all, in these games there is sufficient complexity that there is always choice, which leads to the implication that victory is done generally through better captaincy as opposed to a better ship.  It's not a chess game;  It's not a proscribed A defeats B such as Master of Orion 2's techwar like strategy.  It's not a game purely of numbers, like the production twitch fests that Starcraft, Command and Conquer, and such related games can easily become.  It's a game like Heavy Gear 1, where the equipment you're given is a third of the equasion, and the other two thirds is your ablity to use that equipment to it's fullest potential.  Although it's too late, to be succinct, the victory generally comes from thinking, rather than a proscribed formula or ablity to do the same thing faster than someone else.  There is a point where seconds will count (as in all real time games) and a DN will defeat a FF 95% of the time, but rather than the norm, these are the extremes in an otherwise very well thought out tatical game.  The endless tatical combinations that can create victory or defeat is what keeps me hooked more than anything else, and is what will keep me playing for many years to come.

As i've stated exaustivly before, I came across SFC by accident;  In a fun pack of multiple games.  I didn't think that SFC 1 would be much more than another mediocre trek sim, but after playing it for a few minutes I saw the potential.  From that moment I was utterly hooked, grabbing OP as soon as it hit the shelves (I was unaware of the community at large and the time, and the stigma that apparently surrounded OP, but eh.)  In the sleepless months that followed I tried every day to get a little better at firing my alpha, a little smarter at where my energy went, and a little wiser as to what the enemy would do, computer or otherwise.  You know, I never *did* end up trying those other games in the trek pack...
 
In summary, it would be the depth of immersion, the game's 'personality', and above all it's overwhelming complexity that keeps me hooked to the game.

Yes, you could probably consider me a hardcore strategy/tabletop tatics gamer,

Holocat.

P.S.  The word succinct has no place *anywhere* in this and I apologize for using it twice in this document.  Thank you.

 


 

Holocat

  • Guest
Re: Staying Power of this Old game
« Reply #14 on: April 29, 2003, 01:49:28 am »
LOL.  I have MoW2 as well, hilarious game .  I'm not too bad with gunnery, but I can't sail worth a damn in that game.  Trouble gaining the proper wind, and squadron 'trouble' (my AI friends like running into things)  My first boarding action was also a bit of a blunder (fire the grapeshot, THEN charge in with marines, doh.)  I haven't played that or AoS2:PB in some time though, since i've been concentrating on being able to use Firesoul's fed ship additions with competence.

Nothing gets the blood pumping quite like hearing that MoW2 guy yell out for a broadside. Yar.  

I do considerably better with AoS2:PB, even with fleets;  I could just hug my brit carronades all day  With more than eight ships though, my ablity to control the fleet in a timely fashion slips fast though, particularly when I mix hull class, which is almost always.

I'd say the playerbase for MoW2 and AoS2 is small because the rennisance era just dosen't appeal to the masses;  Too tech for the fantasy fans, too 'down to earth' for the scifiers.  Historical sims are more of a niche market in the west than trek, in my opinion. (I think it does better in europe though)

Despite all that, I grabbed AoS2:PB as soon as it hit the shelves;  Hard to find too, had to go downtown to find a copy;  It remains one of the few games played for more than an hour, for this smarmy sea cat.

Never played AoS2:PB or MoW online, so you've sparked my intrest.  I got PB early enough that multiplayer was completely unstable when I hit the AoS2 forums.  I haven't been there either for some time...

Anyway, here's and cheers to the long guns of all empires and the tales they spin in past, present, and future,

Holocat.



 

KATChuutRitt

  • Guest
Re: Staying Power of this Old game
« Reply #15 on: April 29, 2003, 04:15:03 am »
Quote:

 Brotherhood
 Leadership
 Addiction
 Community
 Klingons

 Friendship
 Laughs
 Elation
 Experiences
 T-Bombs  




 K razy
 A ddicted
 T eamates

and

 K ooky
 O ddball
 T otal
 H eadcases

and the rest of ya too!!!

Black

  • Guest
Re: Staying Power of this Old game
« Reply #16 on: April 29, 2003, 08:49:22 am »
One thing ...

Everyone here rocks ...  

OK ... the game rocks too ...  

but most of all ...   :P

"STAR TREK PYROTECHNICS!!!!!!!!! Bing, bang, boom (and sometimes ouch!), oh yeah!!!"