Topic: Planning OP+ shiplist 2.1 .. controversial?

[Kortez]

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So if not having the "Z-CCX2" prevents you from playing on a OP+ server I'm sorry to hear that but them's the breaks. I'd rather have a server full of Klinks, Lyrans (you guys are nuts), Feds, and what not then sacrifice them just so I can get some Mirak to play. Sorry, the needs of the many out weigh the needs of the few (now where did I hear that?  ).
 

Fine, Castrin, if that is what you want.  You have just alienated the Mirak.  We are not exactly a small race and we have always tried to be supportive and fly with honor.   We will abstain.

When you can port all the nuances of SFB into SFC, like our variable drones, the chance of mutiny in Klingons ships, their special weapon, the rom cloak, and all the rest it will make a lot more sense.

 

[jimmi7769]

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 The only thing I dont like is "G-Racks" lol.  I would have rather seen "E" Racks on this boat and at least 2 PhsGs left on the rear. But oh well.
 

I think the Phaser G's all over the X1 ships was basically a concession to the fact that SFB P-1's on X1 ships could fire as P-G's if the need arose.  Since this couldn't be done in game (much like the infamous G-Rack) we get P-G's all over the place.

I'm not opposed to having these on the ships just not very many(the restrictions on how they could fire were pretty harsh in SFB).

As for the Mirak getting special drones, Klingons and Feds would get these as well(as would the Mirak get Dis-H).

In a perfect world.................

[FireSoul]

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 The only thing I dont like is "G-Racks" lol.  I would have rather seen "E" Racks on this boat and at least 2 PhsGs left on the rear. But oh well.
 

I think the Phaser G's all over the X1 ships was basically a concession to the fact that SFB P-1's on X1 ships could fire as P-G's if the need arose.  Since this couldn't be done in game (much like the infamous G-Rack) we get P-G's all over the place.

I'm not opposed to having these on the ships just not very many(the restrictions on how they could fire were pretty harsh in SFB).

As for the Mirak getting special drones, Klingons and Feds would get these as well(as would the Mirak get Dis-H).

In a perfect world.................  

Actually..
.. the SFB rules for X1 have changed. What you have there are early test rules. Later rules stated that ph1X could be overloaded, and that's it. .. and now recent rules state that they cannot be overlaoded at all. Since the phX is based on the overload-capable but no phG rules, I think it was fair to correct the ships. After all, I add a few other dozen xships to enter at the same time which followed that set of rules.

The NEW rules can be found here. These rules will not apply for this game.
 http://www.starfleetgames.com/sfb/errata/X-shipCL23.pdf

-- Luc


 

[Fluf]

Sorry to hear that Castrin, as the Miraks are the 3rd largest populated fleets in SFC, with the KOTHs and KATS supporting over 60 members.  Firesoul's compromise gives us our CCX in 2300, when the rest of the X ships come out.  I dont see the problem with this.  KLAW will discuss this issue and vote accordingly on which servers we will play on as they come up.

[jimmi7769]

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 The only thing I dont like is "G-Racks" lol.  I would have rather seen "E" Racks on this boat and at least 2 PhsGs left on the rear. But oh well.
 

I think the Phaser G's all over the X1 ships was basically a concession to the fact that SFB P-1's on X1 ships could fire as P-G's if the need arose.  Since this couldn't be done in game (much like the infamous G-Rack) we get P-G's all over the place.

I'm not opposed to having these on the ships just not very many(the restrictions on how they could fire were pretty harsh in SFB).

As for the Mirak getting special drones, Klingons and Feds would get these as well(as would the Mirak get Dis-H).

In a perfect world.................  

Actually..
.. the SFB rules for X1 have changed. What you have there are early test rules. Later rules stated that ph1X could be overloaded, and that's it. .. and now recent rules state that they cannot be overlaoded at all. Since the phX is based on the overload-capable but no phG rules, I think it was fair to correct the ships. After all, I add a few other dozen xships to enter at the same time which followed that set of rules.

The NEW rules can be found here. These rules will not apply for this game.
 http://www.starfleetgames.com/sfb/errata/X-shipCL23.pdf

-- Luc


 

True enough.

[jdmckinney]

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Sorry to hear that Castrin, as the Miraks are the 3rd largest populated fleets in SFC, with the KOTHs and KATS supporting over 60 members.  Firesoul's compromise gives us our CCX in 2300, when the rest of the X ships come out.  I dont see the problem with this.  KLAW will discuss this issue and vote accordingly on which servers we will play on as they come up.

Hey, it's a free universe. However, I have not seen even ONE Mirak/Kzinti player on Reclamation. What would Castrin risk losing with his stance? Fluf, as you pointed out above, the Z-CCX seriously damaged the player base for RT3 because of the inequities. Surely there can be some middle ground where the Mirak/Kzinti Xes are balanced against other races' Xes. While it certainly would be nice to have more drone types available, there are other races who also suffer from this lack of variety. If the need is there for a CA-level X-drone cruiser, maybe one should be created. The CCXes are all general ships, not bombardment cruisers. So, why not have a Z-CCX that fits that mold, and supplement that with a bombardment X-alternative?

[jdmckinney]

By the way, if I'm reading FS right on the Xes, he does not retain the original Taldren CCXes for any race. Why should he break his rules for one race, regardless of population? If the Z-CCX is in as an alternate, then probably the other original Taldren CCXes should be there, as well.

[CptCastrin]

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So if not having the "Z-CCX2" prevents you from playing on a OP+ server I'm sorry to hear that but them's the breaks. I'd rather have a server full of Klinks, Lyrans (you guys are nuts), Feds, and what not then sacrifice them just so I can get some Mirak to play. Sorry, the needs of the many out weigh the needs of the few (now where did I hear that?  ).
 

Fine, Castrin, if that is what you want.  You have just alienated the Mirak.  We are not exactly a small race and we have always tried to be supportive and fly with honor.   We will abstain.

When you can port all the nuances of SFB into SFC, like our variable drones, the chance of mutiny in Klingons ships, their special weapon, the rom cloak, and all the rest it will make a lot more sense.

 

As stated by Nomad I've not seen one Mirak on (till today) so please stop with the threats.

Suffice it to say that if the others in SFCx decide that I'm in the wrong then I will abide by that. However it seems strange to me that the KAT/KOTH wish to impose their will on a shiplist (and the servers that use it) that they have stated that they don't even use because the Z-CCX has been ballanced acording to SFB stats.

I've always had the highest regards for all Mirak players but the issue is (in my case) campaign ballance, as much as is possible and the Z-CCX is (by even Fluf's addmission) a OTT ship as is from Talrden's shiplist. I'm sorry if you (or any Mirak) feel alienated by my stance but I have to look at the big picture and ALL the races. The Z-CCX a la Taldren chews up and spits out any other race's CCX (or equvalent) x1 ship because it had the MIRV added.

Does that mean that I say the Z-CCX2 (Firesoul's "return" of the Taldren version Z-CCX) should not be in the list? No. See that's where you (general "you" meaning whoever bent Firesouls ear about the CCX in the first place) and I differ. If Firesoul puts it in it's his call not mine. Then you can play it to your hearts content on GSA. But in the interest of fairness, and unless the others in SFCx deam it otherwise, it will not be found in D2 on a campaign (read serious campaign) server hosted by SFCx.

As for fixing all the holes in SFC2/OP ... god I wish I could. But that's still no reason to penalize all the other races.

One last thing, considering the CCX2 will come out in 2300 a full 7 years after all the other races have thier x1 ships and are getting their x2 ships I guess the point is fairly moot. The CCX is, though good, not a match for most x2 ships. My only concern is that the Mirak do not get an unballancing ship at the dawn of x1 thus ruining the campaign for all other race players. After x2 comes out the issue is not really a major one.

So with the above I conradict myself, it's possible that you will see the CCX2 on a SFCx server. When and if it's of any value is a different matter.  

[CptCastrin]

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Sorry to hear that Castrin, as the Miraks are the 3rd largest populated fleets in SFC, with the KOTHs and KATS supporting over 60 members.  Firesoul's compromise gives us our CCX in 2300, when the rest of the X ships come out.  I dont see the problem with this.  KLAW will discuss this issue and vote accordingly on which servers we will play on as they come up.  

As you have been mostly sticking to EaW and dislike the OP+ shiplist in general (at least it seems that way) I expect you will remain in EaW.

I thank you for considering playing in OP and hope you continue with the great feed back.  




EDIT: and just to be clear, the above was not a sarcastic slam of any kind, I truely do appriciate Fluf's (and other's) feed back and help in the community. It's mearly my possition that where one plays is entirely up to them and as KOTH/KAT have been mostly found in EaW I don't see that changing. If they were, however, to play in OP it would make my heart glad. Not that it would cange my mind on the CCX issue ... much.

[Green]

This may, in the end, be much ado about nothing.  At least I hope so.

I have jumped on Reclamation recently (2 days ago) after reading Dog's comments on giving OP a chance.  So I reloaded, repatched, and D/L'd the Reclamation files and got on for a little bit.  It felt great and was fun.  I spread the word and hoped to see some game time on OP and EAW.

I don't think anyone disagrees that the CCX is too much too early.  And FireSoul's concept of letting it live ... but later as an X2 ... seemed to be a pretty good idea.  And if, as an X2 ship, it isn't the cat's meow ... then it should be okay (based on what you wrote ... may be misinterpreting things).

On a side note, FireSoul, I am having a blast flying your shiplist on LB3 (EAW).  The variety is fantastic and many of the ships require a very different way of playing (i.e. the Z-BF [fly fast, and I mean fast] and the Z-MTT-CAV [fly slow, but launch many things at the enemy])

[Kortez]

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So if not having the "Z-CCX2" prevents you from playing on a OP+ server I'm sorry to hear that but them's the breaks. I'd rather have a server full of Klinks, Lyrans (you guys are nuts), Feds, and what not then sacrifice them just so I can get some Mirak to play. Sorry, the needs of the many out weigh the needs of the few (now where did I hear that?  ).
 

Fine, Castrin, if that is what you want.  You have just alienated the Mirak.  We are not exactly a small race and we have always tried to be supportive and fly with honor.   We will abstain.

When you can port all the nuances of SFB into SFC, like our variable drones, the chance of mutiny in Klingons ships, their special weapon, the rom cloak, and all the rest it will make a lot more sense.

 



 

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As stated by Nomad I've not seen one Mirak on (till today) so please stop with the threats.

I expected more than this from you, Castrin.  I had always respected you in the past.  To give such a flippant answer is not in keeping with prior contacts.  Also, I do not represent KAT.  I am the Patriarch of KOTH and not KAT.  KAT is free to do as they please, and there would be no hard feelings for our brothers.

If you want to know, we have been playing LB3 and the last 4 times I've tried Reclamation it has been down.

I do not make threats.  As I see it you are against giving the Mirak any edge whatsoever, but the reverse is not true.  Game balance is ok if the Mirak are handicapped.  That is not fair.  Your comments about x2 ships and 2300 is a case in point.  I see no advocating for us to help us balance, just to make sure our best ship is not a factor.  IOW, we can be hurt for game balance.  That is fine, but adding something of real value, not an underpowered heavy cruiser with G racks that should not be there is quite ok.  How sad ...

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Suffice it to say that if the others in SFCx decide that I'm in the wrong then I will abide by that. However it seems strange to me that the KAT/KOTH wish to impose their will on a shiplist (and the servers that use it) that they have stated that they don't even use because the Z-CCX has been ballanced acording to SFB stats.

I've always had the highest regards for all Mirak players but the issue is (in my case) campaign ballance, as much as is possible and the Z-CCX is (by even Fluf's addmission) a OTT ship as is from Talrden's shiplist. I'm sorry if you (or any Mirak) feel alienated by my stance but I have to look at the big picture and ALL the races. The Z-CCX a la Taldren chews up and spits out any other race's CCX (or equvalent) x1 ship because it had the MIRV added.

Does that mean that I say the Z-CCX2 (Firesoul's "return" of the Taldren version Z-CCX) should not be in the list? No. See that's where you (general "you" meaning whoever bent Firesouls ear about the CCX in the first place) and I differ. If Firesoul puts it in it's his call not mine. Then you can play it to your hearts content on GSA. But in the interest of fairness, and unless the others in SFCx deam it otherwise, it will not be found in D2 on a campaign (read serious campaign) server hosted by SFCx.

Oh, make no mistake, we argued for the inclusion of the Z-CCX as it is.  That is our only great ship, and with the CnC rules we cannot fly the Kzinti ships in the packs they are intended to be flown until we hit high rank.

 

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As for fixing all the holes in SFC2/OP ... god I wish I could. But that's still no reason to penalize all the other races.

One last thing, considering the CCX2 will come out in 2300 a full 7 years after all the other races have thier x1 ships and are getting their x2 ships I guess the point is fairly moot. The CCX is, though good, not a match for most x2 ships. My only concern is that the Mirak do not get an unballancing ship at the dawn of x1 thus ruining the campaign for all other race players. After x2 comes out the issue is not really a major one.

We it doesn't seem to bother you that we would get a ship out of time when it is no longer a true factor.  I see that and it just makes me positive I have been right all along.   You seem smug about it.  That is how I shall remember this discussion.

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So with the above I conradict myself, it's possible that you will see the CCX2 on a SFCx server. When and if it's of any value is a different matter.  

   

[Fluf]

Castrin,

    The KOTH Fleet has nothing against Firesoul's OP+ shiplist.  I actually love the list and am hoping to work with him on some corrections to the Mirak list that I think it needs.  And yes we have been on EAW for the last 2 weeks as the LItterbox is a KOTH server, and we are testing many new missions and shiplist just as you are.  If you remember a previous post of mine in the D2 forums, the Litterbox was going to be an OP server.  However, TraceyG requested that I help get a campaign together for EAW so we could test the new missions and shiplists before SG3 started.  KOTH has always preferred OP over EAW, as it was a GFL Mirak fleet when OP came out, and was in the beta testing of patches for OP.  I have actually tried to log onto Reclamation a few times, but it has been down the times I have tried.  KOTH will always support OP and our next server will probably be an OP server.

   All this arguement over one ship is getting a little ridiculous.  The bottom line is, we want to have our stock CCX available and agree it is to strong for a GenX1 ship.  However we do want it available in 2300 as a GenX2 ship, as it is basically, the only ship we will fly, other than the X-DD and the X-DG.  The other heavy cruisers will not be flown as they are too underpowered to be effective.  I think this is a good compromise and it should be addressed this way.  I in no way want to see any campaign unbalanced, and agree the stock CCX is too much for a 1stGen ship.  But I do think it makes a good 2nd Gen ship, and should be treated as such.

[jdmckinney]

I'm sorry I'm not understanding things too well, so please someone explain:

First, what CnC rules are in question affecting how anyone flies anything on OP? Up until recently, there were no campaigns, and Reclamation is the first semi-serious attempt at one. There are no CnC rules on Reclamation. The only limitation is a 2-ship ownership limit setting in the .gf files.

Second, if nobody's played an OP campaign with this shiplist so that they've actually gotten to X-ship releases, isn't all this guff about getting neutered unfounded? Have you tried the X1 ships in the OP+ list vs. other X1 ships? Remember, they were ALL redone according to FS. Another important point is that FS does not use PhG on his X1 ships, so the non-Mirak/Kzinti X1 ships do not have anywhere near the ability to deal with MIRVs that Taldren X1s do.

Third, where is this history of Mirak/Kzinti oppression that seems to be a point of contention? Again, we are almost starting over with OP campaigns, so what balance or rules do or don't get used is up for debate until we've actual had some campaigns.

I'm trying to see both sides of this, and it seems to me what the Mirak/Kzinti need is a MDC-type X-drone cruiser, which would have B racks and ADD12s. I personally don't agree with FS's G-rack use in this case because the upper limit of drones one can buy with a G is much lower than with a B. While the more reloads translation may work OK for the AI, it does hurt the player-flown ships.

[jdmckinney]

Fluf, my above post was written before I saw your latest one. I have a question: is one of the key problems you see with the Xes that the X2 Mirak/Kzinti CAs suffer from being underpowered? So, the CCX is then the best heavy cruiser counter to, say, a K-XCA? If so, then I think the question of release date has been solved by FS putting it in at 2300 with the X2s. Does this solve the problem from your (and other players') standpoint? Are the Z-Xes still too weak as a group?

I'm especially interested in getting play-test feedback on the X1s. Frankly, I doubt too many campaigns will ever reach X2, so the X1 ship balance is much more of a concern to me personally.

[FireSoul]

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By the way, if I'm reading FS right on the Xes, he does not retain the original Taldren CCXes for any race. Why should he break his rules for one race, regardless of population? If the Z-CCX is in as an alternate, then probably the other original Taldren CCXes should be there, as well.  

Yeah.. maybe..
.. but some such Xes' only difference were phGs. I need opinions.

[Fluf]

I agree Nomad, the G Rack conversion does hurt.  Hence my suggestion for the E rack.  We used the E rack on AOTK and it seems it would be a natural addition to a 1stGen X ship.  It would seem that the Kzin would have increased loadouts and the ability to fire faster as new technology.   I would hope that this would be considered as a alternative.  The E rack has a firing rate of a C Rack, but carry's 10 more drones per rack, thus allowing us to use it in fire support against PF's and fighters.

And what Kortez is talking about is the Kzin feeling that we have had ever since the introduction of this game.  Every patch has screwed us in some way.  Even the last patch for EAW and the G Rack debate gave us more BPV on some of our ships.  Our BCH is just useless now, and it was always one of the worst BCH's in the game.  Our CCH can barely come even with a F-CLC.  Hence, most Mirak cannot compete in PvP 1 on 1 vs comparable ships and pilots.  After all the drone debates and cheese debates that have gone on for years, we are a little gunshy in that respect.  

Then our best ship that we have ever had, gets taken out of the shiplist and gutted, albeit it should be for balance.  You can see where we might get a little angry at this.

If anything, the Kzin would like to become less dependant on drones, not more.  We would rather have more power and energy weapons, so that we could stay in a fight on and even basis.  Ah, but then we become to Klingon like.    Which they dont like.

What the Kzin want is a ship capable of standing up to a D5, C7 or CLC or BCF in a 1 on 1 fight, without having to bring out the cheese.

As it stands now the Mirak only fly 10 ships no matter what list you make.

DF DD and CC in early
MDC,MDC+, MCC and CVA in mid
CVA through late

Thats it. And we only fly the MCC if its in a custom shiplist with the Dizzy points split.  We basically have no medium or heavy command cruiser that can compete on and equal basis.  Hence the backlash on the CCX.

 

[FireSoul]

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Fine, Castrin, if that is what you want.  You have just alienated the Mirak.  We are not exactly a small race and we have always tried to be supportive and fly with honor.   We will abstain.

I would like to request dropping anything like that from this thread. Castrin and KOTH are allowed their decision to do and say as they wish, but not in a way that hurts the community.
.. So.. to BOTH sides:
.. play together.. and settle it on the Battlefield. There aren't enough players as is.


-- Luc
 

[Kortez]

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Fine, Castrin, if that is what you want.  You have just alienated the Mirak.  We are not exactly a small race and we have always tried to be supportive and fly with honor.   We will abstain.

I would like to request dropping anything like that from this thread. Castrin and KOTH are allowed their decision to do and say as they wish, but not in a way that hurts the community.
.. So.. to BOTH sides:
.. play together.. and settle it on the Battlefield. There aren't enough players as is.


-- Luc
 

This is not about hurting the community.  It's about the hurt the Mirak have suffered, throughout the time of SFC2, starting especially after RT3 and moving on since.  Fluf says it well.  However he undersells it.  Because we are coordinated and can flip hexes and take planets and bases, we have had to sacrifice so that we are at a serious disadvantage in many if not most PvP matchups.  That's why I usually abstain.  I can fight with the best of them, but it is an exercise in frustration.  

The one ship we have that is really a great ship is the Z-CCX.  I know it is better than the others, but you know, when you get only ONE ship like this one you cling to it.  If people want to really solve the problem the CCX is not the real answer.  However, we don't want more B racks.  Everyone gets B racks!  How does the drone race stand differentiated from the Klingons and the Feds?  We don't have the energy, we don't have the energy weapons.  B racks won't do it.  That we cannot get the drones which are in SFB only makes it that much more unbalanced.  Ah, I am not happy about this all right now.  
 

[CptCastrin]

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As stated by Nomad I've not seen one Mirak on (till today) so please stop with the threats.

I expected more than this from you, Castrin.  I had always respected you in the past.  To give such a flippant answer is not in keeping with prior contacts.  Also, I do not represent KAT.  I am the Patriarch of KOTH and not KAT.  KAT is free to do as they please, and there would be no hard feelings for our brothers.

If you want to know, we have been playing LB3 and the last 4 times I've tried Reclamation it has been down.

I do not make threats.  As I see it you are against giving the Mirak any edge whatsoever, but the reverse is not true.  Game balance is ok if the Mirak are handicapped.  That is not fair.  Your comments about x2 ships and 2300 is a case in point.  I see no advocating for us to help us balance, just to make sure our best ship is not a factor.  IOW, we can be hurt for game balance.  That is fine, but adding something of real value, not an underpowered heavy cruiser with G racks that should not be there is quite ok.  How sad ...

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Suffice it to say that if the others in SFCx decide that I'm in the wrong then I will abide by that. However it seems strange to me that the KAT/KOTH wish to impose their will on a shiplist (and the servers that use it) that they have stated that they don't even use because the Z-CCX has been ballanced acording to SFB stats.

I've always had the highest regards for all Mirak players but the issue is (in my case) campaign ballance, as much as is possible and the Z-CCX is (by even Fluf's addmission) a OTT ship as is from Talrden's shiplist. I'm sorry if you (or any Mirak) feel alienated by my stance but I have to look at the big picture and ALL the races. The Z-CCX a la Taldren chews up and spits out any other race's CCX (or equvalent) x1 ship because it had the MIRV added.

Does that mean that I say the Z-CCX2 (Firesoul's "return" of the Taldren version Z-CCX) should not be in the list? No. See that's where you (general "you" meaning whoever bent Firesouls ear about the CCX in the first place) and I differ. If Firesoul puts it in it's his call not mine. Then you can play it to your hearts content on GSA. But in the interest of fairness, and unless the others in SFCx deam it otherwise, it will not be found in D2 on a campaign (read serious campaign) server hosted by SFCx.

Oh, make no mistake, we argued for the inclusion of the Z-CCX as it is.  That is our only great ship, and with the CnC rules we cannot fly the Kzinti ships in the packs they are intended to be flown until we hit high rank.

 

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As for fixing all the holes in SFC2/OP ... god I wish I could. But that's still no reason to penalize all the other races.

One last thing, considering the CCX2 will come out in 2300 a full 7 years after all the other races have thier x1 ships and are getting their x2 ships I guess the point is fairly moot. The CCX is, though good, not a match for most x2 ships. My only concern is that the Mirak do not get an unballancing ship at the dawn of x1 thus ruining the campaign for all other race players. After x2 comes out the issue is not really a major one.

We it doesn't seem to bother you that we would get a ship out of time when it is no longer a true factor.  I see that and it just makes me positive I have been right all along.   You seem smug about it.  That is how I shall remember this discussion.

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So with the above I conradict myself, it's possible that you will see the CCX2 on a SFCx server. When and if it's of any value is a different matter.  

Appologies for getting KOTH and KAT confused.

I'll just cover the above in general instead of breaking it up:

If Firesoul adds the CCX(2) back in bully for you.
If KOTH plays on OP or not it's their choice either way.
If you think I'm out to get the Mirak ... wrong ... but your entitled to your opinion as all are.
Was I flipant? Maybe, but not without cause. Accusations of "alienating" and causing people to "abstain" don't bring out the best in me, neither does implying that no Mirak will play OP because of my "actions".
There are no CnC rules on Reclamation (save that you can't have more than 2 ships).
I have never petitioned, cajoled, or requested a ship to be included or removed on the OP+ shiplist.

In the end I'm sorry to hear that you now think of me as some anti-Mirak, smug, and evil person and have now influanced KOTH to not play (at least in OP). Wasn't my intention when I spoke up but then this is why a only rarely do. I always believed in open dialog but when people say to me that ... ah never mind.

As stated, if the rest of SFCx feel otherwise (which we will not discuss here for obvious reasons) I'm sure we will include the CCX2 (or whatever it's called) in whatever capacity it is listed. But that doesn't change my opinion,and that is simply: the CCX (original) if introduced at the early stages of X-tech, unbalances campaigns, causing others to leave, and should not be allowed.
   

[CptCastrin]

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Fine, Castrin, if that is what you want.  You have just alienated the Mirak.  We are not exactly a small race and we have always tried to be supportive and fly with honor.   We will abstain.

I would like to request dropping anything like that from this thread. Castrin and KOTH are allowed their decision to do and say as they wish, but not in a way that hurts the community.
.. So.. to BOTH sides:
.. play together.. and settle it on the Battlefield. There aren't enough players as is.


-- Luc
 

This is not about hurting the community.  It's about the hurt the Mirak have suffered, throughout the time of SFC2, starting especially after RT3 and moving on since.  Fluf says it well.  However he undersells it.  Because we are coordinated and can flip hexes and take planets and bases, we have had to sacrifice so that we are at a serious disadvantage in many if not most PvP matchups.  That's why I usually abstain.  I can fight with the best of them, but it is an exercise in frustration.  

The one ship we have that is really a great ship is the Z-CCX.  I know it is better than the others, but you know, when you get only ONE ship like this one you cling to it.  If people want to really solve the problem the CCX is not the real answer.  However, we don't want more B racks.  Everyone gets B racks!  How does the drone race stand differentiated from the Klingons and the Feds?  We don't have the energy, we don't have the energy weapons.  B racks won't do it.  That we cannot get the drones which are in SFB only makes it that much more unbalanced.  Ah, I am not happy about this all right now.  
 

I just want to go on record here and say that the general hobbling of the Miraks is one reason that I've never been quick to pursue instituting major "CnC" rules on SFCx campaigns.

I've also noticed that in general these rules are only there to limit races that have a fundamental edge in one way or another. Where I can see reasoning in trying to limit escorts (common sense really) other rules I've found to be rather unfriendly to the Mirak and in some cases the Klingons.

It should be up to the admin to create viable shortages in ships. It should not have to come to the fact that you say "no, you can't play that ship because it's a bombardment / commando / cheese ship". The key IMHO is to balance the availability of ships so that there is always a counter to it. Thus my take on the CCX, in early x1 there is no counter to it, it's a god. It's unfortunet that the CCX is the focus but I could name you other ships that are far worse (or just as bad) but the point is balance is possible, if people are willing to acknowledge that all sides need to be taken into account.

I understand why you feel the way you do Kortez. It doesn't change my take on the CCX issue but I do understand.