Topic: Planning OP+ shiplist 2.1 .. controversial?  (Read 53286 times)

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Kortez

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Re: Planning OP+ shiplist 2.1 .. controversial?
« Reply #340 on: April 29, 2003, 06:17:56 pm »
Quote:

You know what you should do, Kortez.  Nevermind flying Mirak wishing you have Klingon tools.  Just fly Klingon, mah brutha!  


I know that isn't the point, but it's a thought!    




Hmmm ... you have a point, you know, and I love the K-XCA!

 

Fluf

  • Guest
Re: Planning OP+ shiplist 2.1 .. controversial?
« Reply #341 on: April 29, 2003, 06:53:17 pm »
Doh,  actually Kortez was a Klingon in the GFL and we kidnapped him.  So his change over to the Mirak shiplist has been, well for lack of better words, less then stellar for him.  He just plain thinks the Mirak shiplist sucks.  Unfortunately, I have to agree with him on alot of his points.  But I have always flown Mirak since the game came out and have always managed to overcome.

Rod O'neal

  • Guest
Re: Planning OP+ shiplist 2.1 .. controversial?
« Reply #342 on: April 29, 2003, 07:25:40 pm »
[quote

The Hydrans get more power in SFB because all of their weapons use power, unlike the drone races, including rearming their fighter's fusions and hellbores


   
Come on!  The Mirak X heavies are horrible pieces of junk.  You try flying one and you will see.  Good luck cruising around at about speed 15.



 




This was just to answer why the Hydrans get so much power. It's a carry over from SFB, where they need it. Since it doesn't cost anything to arm ftr fusions and HBs in SFC it's probably out of whack. Except that when a Hydran looses his/her ftrs then they're undergunned. Since fusion ftrs have to fly through a sh*tstorm of phasers and adds to get a shot off, loosing ftrs happens pretty fast. I understand what everyone is saying about the mirak x-ships. Even the Klingons aren't disputing that.  

Kortez

  • Guest
Re: Planning OP+ shiplist 2.1 .. controversial?
« Reply #343 on: April 29, 2003, 07:51:47 pm »
Quote:

[quote

The Hydrans get more power in SFB because all of their weapons use power, unlike the drone races, including rearming their fighter's fusions and hellbores


   
Come on!  The Mirak X heavies are horrible pieces of junk.  You try flying one and you will see.  Good luck cruising around at about speed 15.



 




This was just to answer why the Hydrans get so much power. It's a carry over from SFB, where they need it. Since it doesn't cost anything to arm ftr fusions and HBs in SFC it's probably out of whack. Except that when a Hydran looses his/her ftrs then they're undergunned. Since fusion ftrs have to fly through a sh*tstorm of phasers and adds to get a shot off, loosing ftrs happens pretty fast. I understand what everyone is saying about the mirak x-ships. Even the Klingons aren't disputing that.  




I know, and I certainly am not trying to be obnoxious (tough I achieve that effortlessly, with sprezzatura), nor to appear to be getting down on anyone (thought that obnoxious Klingon attitude of mine always pops up--ok, I admit it, I am a real Klingon spy on Earth).

It's just I am passionate about the Mirak shiplist.  Fluf is right.  I think their ships SUCK!  

 

IndyShark

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Re: Planning OP+ shiplist 2.1 .. controversial?
« Reply #344 on: April 29, 2003, 08:10:21 pm »
Firesoul, can you check the Democracy class battlecruisers to see why they only have 2 gattling phasers and the LDR light and heavy cruisers all have 4? It seems to me that this is a mistake, but perhaps that is correct as far as SFB goes.

Thanks!
 

Corbomite

  • Guest
Re: Planning OP+ shiplist 2.1 .. controversial?
« Reply #345 on: April 29, 2003, 08:23:17 pm »
Quote:

Firesoul, can you check the Democracy class battlecruisers to see why they only have 2 gattling phasers and the LDR light and heavy cruisers all have 4? It seems to me that this is a mistake, but perhaps that is correct as far as SFB goes.

Thanks!
 




I'm no expert, but I think it might have to do with the fact that they have 6 Disruptors and 4 ESG's vs 4 Disruptors and 2 ESG's.

FireSoul

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Re: Planning OP+ shiplist 2.1 .. controversial?
« Reply #346 on: April 29, 2003, 08:25:01 pm »
Quote:

Firesoul, can you check the Democracy class battlecruisers to see why they only have 2 gattling phasers and the LDR light and heavy cruisers all have 4? It seems to me that this is a mistake, but perhaps that is correct as far as SFB goes.

Thanks!
 




It's accurate..
.. they opted for 2 ph1s LS/RS 2 phGs LS/RS  .. instead of 4 phGs LS/RS.

-- Luc

Holocat

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Re: Planning OP+ shiplist 2.1 .. controversial?
« Reply #347 on: April 30, 2003, 03:56:24 am »
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They'll be BVP adjustments?  It's not the hit i'm worried about, it's the difference between a carrier-that-isn't-a-carrier, a casual carrier, and whatever-else-have-you carriers being too small to tatically see;  Kinda makes some ship types redundant.  Merge the HDW's and HDWC's then? *shrug*




Actually.. I think the HDWs and HDWCs are already correct.




I read the fighter change text file;  Woah.  That's just nuts.  I love it.  I can see where the fighter change is going now, and I find myself in favour;  non-carrier types with less, dedicated carriers generally holding more.  Auxalleries will become... intresting.  I woudn't even mind the 4 to 3 with the way the list seems to be going, but I should really shaddup before I influence anything, as i'm biased


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And... uh... what's an HPT?




HPT? Where?




It was brought up from the depths of the SFB swamp when talking about the Z-CCX;  It's not in, but I don't know what it is.  What is it?


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Oh, and... uh... why the sudden explosion concerning the Z-CCX?  Funny, I thought no one liked *any* of the X-Ships here...
That would be three fighters in one squadron, rather than two and one fighter squadrons, right?
I didn't even know the Mirak were nerfed.  
I'm still not clear on why the HDWE costs more than the HDW2;  Do cargo boxes really cost that much?




I don't know.
I'll decide the fighter squadrons as I move along.
I didn't know either.
The HDWE is properly configured, on the inside, to be able to call it an Escort. It has the "E" special role. This might come in handy in future scripting. It is a valid variant.




I dunno.  the DE is still cheezier.


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Balance (bal*ance) n.
 
1. A weighing device, especially one consisting of a rigid beam horizontally suspended by a low-friction support at its center, with identical weighing pans hung at either end, one of which holds an unknown weight while the effective weight in the other is increased by known amounts until the beam is level and motionless,
2. A state of equilibrium or parity characterized by cancellation of all forces by equal opposing forces,
3. The power or means to decide,
4. The bloody and vicious trench warfare associated with online game modifications.
 




Is it always like that?
-- Luc  




Let's see, the first game I played online was Diablo.  There wasn't too much hue and cry about changes, but most of the patches were to prevent cheating, so there wasn't alot done on the 'balance' thing.

Diablo II was simply bout after bout after bout of "<insert despised character class here> is too powerful!  Nerf <insert despised character class here>." or "I can't possibly compete with <insert despised character class here>.  Make <insert prefered character class here> completely overpowering."  Interspersed with the usual "X is cheating their a*s off." (which they usually were, Diablo and Diablo 2 being nortoriously filled with cheaters (Pffft, I mean, where do YOU *think* all the hackers that hacked diablo 1 to death went, huh? ))

Concerning Starcraft and C&C(pretty much any flavor thereof).  I'd say that the casualties of this balance confrontation was at least several times worse than what we have here, per DAY (I remember particular bitter comments by my friends when they played C&C tiberian sun.  I think they just sucked ).  

Dark ages, nexus, and (one-other-game-by-the-same-MMO-company-that-I-can't-remember)  The nexus beta was dominated by complaints that there wasn't enough coop.  They fixed that in Dark ages and they were then flooded with complaints that you couldn't do anything alone.  I think it was somewhere around here I realized what a headache it must be to be a online game programer.  

So in short, yes.  Balance is usually like that.

Given what i've stated so far, the complication and nicheiness of this game is a bit of a hidden silver lining;  More level heads lying about the forums here, so much so that it's almost like everyone was reasonable! (having had my first online game taste as Cheatablo however, I know better than that, yeah.  You're all just waiting for a sign of weakness, yeah, like wolves, before you rip firesoul to bits.  Beware!  Beware!   )

And all should cry, Beware!  Beware!
His flashing eyes, his floating hair!
Weave a circle around him thrice,
And close your eyes with holy dread,
For he on honey dew hath fed,
And drunk the milk of Paradise.

  --Samual Taylor Coleridge, "Kubla Khan"
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 06:00:00 pm by Holocat »

Capt Jeff

  • Guest
Re: Planning OP+ shiplist 2.1 .. controversial?
« Reply #348 on: April 30, 2003, 07:18:25 am »
Couple quick shiplist questions, and this seems to be the place to get a good answer  

F-DDG/+  is listed as a drone bombardment ship....why?   It only carries 2 G racks.

Also, should the F-BCG have double drone control?   The BCV, which is  identical weapons wise, has it.

Same question for the F-GSC/CVL.

Thanks

jdmckinney

  • Guest
Re: Planning OP+ shiplist 2.1 .. controversial?
« Reply #349 on: April 30, 2003, 07:42:13 am »
Carriers almost always have double drone control in SFB. Presumably they would be controlling not only their own drones, but others "in the air" from ships in their fleet. Generally (there are always exceptions), the normal cruisers will have drone control = sensor rating, but bombardment ships and carriers would double up. Heck, there are some ships with just 3 drone control.

"G" designation on an F-DDG or a BCG is meant to show it is a "guided weapons" upgrade/variant. That doesn't mean it's a bombardment ship, just that it opts for a couple drones in addition to, but not to totally replace, photons.

FireSoul

  • Guest
Re: Planning OP+ shiplist 2.1 .. controversial?
« Reply #350 on: April 30, 2003, 09:07:47 am »
Quote:

Couple quick shiplist questions, and this seems to be the place to get a good answer  

F-DDG/+  is listed as a drone bombardment ship....why?   It only carries 2 G racks.

Also, should the F-BCG have double drone control?   The BCV, which is  identical weapons wise, has it.
Same question for the F-GSC/CVL.
Thanks  




I confirmed last night the G-BCG only has 6 drone control. I even went to check the erratas..
I already knew the GSC has 6 drone control.

.. as for the carrier variants, like Nomad stated, the 12 DC is there in case fighters want/need to transfer the drones to the mother ship. This is usually just before they get killed.
.. remember... drone control transfer exists in SFB. .. it's not just for drones either, but all seeking weapons.


As for the DDG, I will verify it today.
-- Luc

jimmi7769

  • Guest
Re: Planning OP+ shiplist 2.1 .. controversial?
« Reply #351 on: April 30, 2003, 09:28:32 am »
Quote:

Quote:


And... uh... what's an HPT?




HPT? Where?




It was brought up from the depths of the SFB swamp when talking about the Z-CCX;  It's not in, but I don't know what it is.  What is it?



  --Samual Taylor Coleridge, "Kubla Khan"  





I'm thinking maybe they're referring to the Heavy Photon Torpedo from OP X2 Fed Ships.   Just a guess.

jimmi7769

  • Guest
Re: Planning OP+ shiplist 2.1 .. controversial?
« Reply #352 on: April 30, 2003, 09:30:31 am »
How did the giving ships with special sensors an extra 6 drone control turn out??

It only makes sense as this is a chief function of Spec Sen and can be easily simulated in this fashion.

Quote:

Quote:

Couple quick shiplist questions, and this seems to be the place to get a good answer  

F-DDG/+  is listed as a drone bombardment ship....why?   It only carries 2 G racks.

Also, should the F-BCG have double drone control?   The BCV, which is  identical weapons wise, has it.
Same question for the F-GSC/CVL.
Thanks  




I confirmed last night the G-BCG only has 6 drone control. I even went to check the erratas..
I already knew the GSC has 6 drone control.

.. as for the carrier variants, like Nomad stated, the 12 DC is there in case fighters want/need to transfer the drones to the mother ship. This is usually just before they get killed.
.. remember... drone control transfer exists in SFB. .. it's not just for drones either, but all seeking weapons.


As for the DDG, I will verify it today.
-- Luc  



FireSoul

  • Guest
Re: Planning OP+ shiplist 2.1 .. controversial?
« Reply #353 on: April 30, 2003, 10:07:15 am »
Quote:

How did the giving ships with special sensors an extra 6 drone control turn out??
It only makes sense as this is a chief function of Spec Sen and can be easily simulated in this fashion.





Well.. it needs to be discussed..
.. and tested.. I already know I can have the 18 drone control under OP no problem.. ..


RECAP:
Ships with special sensors, and drones, should gain 6 drone control .. it seems the BPV is already paid by the sensors.
Obvious ships affected would be the Z-CD, the Z-SDF, the F-CAD, the K-D6D.. etc.

jimmi7769

  • Guest
Re: Planning OP+ shiplist 2.1 .. controversial?
« Reply #354 on: April 30, 2003, 10:20:52 am »
Quote:

Quote:

How did the giving ships with special sensors an extra 6 drone control turn out??
It only makes sense as this is a chief function of Spec Sen and can be easily simulated in this fashion.





Well.. it needs to be discussed..
.. and tested.. I already know I can have the 18 drone control under OP no problem.. ..


RECAP:
Ships with special sensors, and drones, should gain 6 drone control .. it seems the BPV is already paid by the sensors.
Obvious ships affected would be the Z-CD, the Z-SDF, the F-CAD, the K-D6D.. etc.  




Now that you say 18 drone control, it reeks of gouda.

KBF-Dogmatix

  • Guest
Re: Planning OP+ shiplist 2.1 .. controversial?
« Reply #355 on: April 30, 2003, 11:11:08 am »
Quote:

Doh,  actually Kortez was a Klingon in the GFL and we kidnapped him.  So his change over to the Mirak shiplist has been, well for lack of better words, less then stellar for him.  He just plain thinks the Mirak shiplist sucks.  Unfortunately, I have to agree with him on alot of his points.  But I have always flown Mirak since the game came out and have always managed to overcome.  




Yes, I know...hence my suggestion.  You can take the Klingon out of the Empire, but you can't take the Empire out of the Klingon.  



 
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 06:00:00 pm by KBF-Dogmatix »

KBF-Dogmatix

  • Guest
Re: Planning OP+ shiplist 2.1 .. controversial?
« Reply #356 on: April 30, 2003, 11:23:12 am »
Quote:

Quote:

Quote:

How did the giving ships with special sensors an extra 6 drone control turn out??
It only makes sense as this is a chief function of Spec Sen and can be easily simulated in this fashion.





Well.. it needs to be discussed..
.. and tested.. I already know I can have the 18 drone control under OP no problem.. ..


RECAP:
Ships with special sensors, and drones, should gain 6 drone control .. it seems the BPV is already paid by the sensors.
Obvious ships affected would be the Z-CD, the Z-SDF, the F-CAD, the K-D6D.. etc.  




Now that you say 18 drone control, it reeks of gouda.  




Possibly.  Perhaps it need not be +6.  Anything up to +6 might be useful.  In any case, it seems like something that's worth testing.  I like that some ships, like the Z-CD would end up with an increased drone control rating that seems to make sense.  I'm a bit leery of 18X drone control on a D6D or CAD...but then again, I'm not at all sure how big a difference it would make.


 
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 06:00:00 pm by KBF-Dogmatix »

FireSoul

  • Guest
Re: Planning OP+ shiplist 2.1 .. controversial?
« Reply #357 on: April 30, 2003, 11:26:10 am »
Quote:

Quote:

Quote:

How did the giving ships with special sensors an extra 6 drone control turn out??
It only makes sense as this is a chief function of Spec Sen and can be easily simulated in this fashion.





Well.. it needs to be discussed..
.. and tested.. I already know I can have the 18 drone control under OP no problem.. ..


RECAP:
Ships with special sensors, and drones, should gain 6 drone control .. it seems the BPV is already paid by the sensors.
Obvious ships affected would be the Z-CD, the Z-SDF, the F-CAD, the K-D6D.. etc.  




Now that you say 18 drone control, it reeks of gouda.  




It does, doesn't it.
Ok.. 18 isn't right.. it should be "+6" Drone Control. These ships have a special sensors and this would be a way to correctly reflect used up BPV that ship has, as well as its true importance.

-- Luc

FireSoul

  • Guest
Re: Planning OP+ shiplist 2.1 .. controversial?
« Reply #358 on: April 30, 2003, 11:30:52 am »
.. after all.. it's not like I'm adding weapons to these ships.
The players will have to PAY for the drones they use up, etc..

.. but yeah.. I don't think I will implement this right away.. but I feel it's a damned good idea.
-- Luc

PS. Bases would also gain that +6 .. wouldn't they..

jimmi7769

  • Guest
Re: Planning OP+ shiplist 2.1 .. controversial?
« Reply #359 on: April 30, 2003, 11:38:08 am »
Quote:

.. after all.. it's not like I'm adding weapons to these ships.
The players will have to PAY for the drones they use up, etc..

.. but yeah.. I don't think I will implement this right away.. but I feel it's a damned good idea.
-- Luc

PS. Bases would also gain that +6 .. wouldn't they..  




Yeah, bases would get it as well.  But, sensor blinding by weapons fire is something else not included in the SFC conversion.