Topic: Planning OP+ shiplist 2.1 .. controversial?

[KBF-Dogmatix]

The E-rack is, in effect, a B-rack that loads as fast as a C-rack.


If you can somehow address the "problem" with adding reloads to the stock C-rack, I suppose that's fine.


Incidentally...that raises a question.  The D5DR in your shiplist is the same as a D5D, but supposedly has extra "reloads."  How is this manifested?  I see no difference between it and the stock D5D in terms of systems, maximum drone load (90) or the "free refills" (36)  you get after a mission.   What have I missed?





 

[FireSoul]

Quote:
The E-rack is, in effect, a B-rack that loads as fast as a C-rack.


If you can somehow address the "problem" with adding reloads to the stock C-rack, I suppose that's fine.


Incidentally...that raises a question.  The D5DR in your shiplist is the same as a D5D, but supposedly has extra "reloads."  How is this manifested?  I see no difference between it and the stock D5D in terms of systems, maximum drone load (90) or the "free refills" (36)  you get after a mission.   What have I missed?
 

For a player, there is no difference.
For a generated AI, which is ALWAYS created stock, that exrta reload means a scatter pack.. and many more firing chances.

-- Luc

[Rod O'neal]

[quote

Wow. That seems pretty bad, but you know what else looks bad? The Plasma races get less power than the Klingons and Federation, who have drones on board. Since drones don't cost any power to use, I could understand a Mirak having less power because they have fewer energy-draining weapons, but then the Fed and Klingon ships should also be lower than they are now using that rationale, though their X-heavies do cost power wheras the MIRV doesn't. As an experiment, has anyone tried giving ALL XCAs 56 power, except the Hydran 60 (though I'm not clear why theirs would be so high, unless it's due to hold costs)? Or, try the 52-53 range?  



The Hydrans get more power in SFB because all of their weapons use power, unlike the drone races, including rearming their fighter's fusions and hellbores


 

[KBF-Dogmatix]

Quote:
[quote

Wow. That seems pretty bad, but you know what else looks bad? The Plasma races get less power than the Klingons and Federation, who have drones on board. Since drones don't cost any power to use, I could understand a Mirak having less power because they have fewer energy-draining weapons, but then the Fed and Klingon ships should also be lower than they are now using that rationale, though their X-heavies do cost power wheras the MIRV doesn't. As an experiment, has anyone tried giving ALL XCAs 56 power, except the Hydran 60 (though I'm not clear why theirs would be so high, unless it's due to hold costs)? Or, try the 52-53 range?  

The Hydrans get more power in SFB because all of their weapons use power, unlike the drone races, including rearming their fighter's fusions and hellbores


   



Which never run out.  

One thing people seem to always omit is that:

#1  Drones are finite

#2 One can always offline fusions if his hellbores aren't charging, and visa versa.



What does a Klingon do when his dizzies won't charge?  Turn them off.  


 

[KBF-Dogmatix]

Quote:

Quote:
The E-rack is, in effect, a B-rack that loads as fast as a C-rack.


If you can somehow address the "problem" with adding reloads to the stock C-rack, I suppose that's fine.


Incidentally...that raises a question.  The D5DR in your shiplist is the same as a D5D, but supposedly has extra "reloads."  How is this manifested?  I see no difference between it and the stock D5D in terms of systems, maximum drone load (90) or the "free refills" (36)  you get after a mission.   What have I missed?
 

For a player, there is no difference.
For a generated AI, which is ALWAYS created stock, that exrta reload means a scatter pack.. and many more firing chances.

-- Luc  

Ah..okay...so the "R" refit in this case is useless to the player.  How, then, would you deal with this reload factor in lieu of instituting E-racks so that it would be useful to an actual player?

 

[FireSoul]

Quote:

Quote:

Quote:
The E-rack is, in effect, a B-rack that loads as fast as a C-rack.


If you can somehow address the "problem" with adding reloads to the stock C-rack, I suppose that's fine.


Incidentally...that raises a question.  The D5DR in your shiplist is the same as a D5D, but supposedly has extra "reloads."  How is this manifested?  I see no difference between it and the stock D5D in terms of systems, maximum drone load (90) or the "free refills" (36)  you get after a mission.   What have I missed?
 

For a player, there is no difference.
For a generated AI, which is ALWAYS created stock, that exrta reload means a scatter pack.. and many more firing chances.

-- Luc  

Ah..okay...so the "R" refit in this case is useless to the player.  How, then, would you deal with this reload factor in lieu of instituting E-racks so that it would be useful to an actual player?

 

Easy. The E racks are supposed to be Drones type IV racks only. These drones are supposed to have a life of 12 hexes, no more. I will NOT put E racks in. Especially if just because players want them.
Sorry guys, I didn't have to think hard about that one. The E rack was never even a topic I asked about in this thread either.

-- Luc

[KBF-Dogmatix]

Well, it's part and parcel of the discussion about the 1st generation Mirak X-ship, in which you've been taking part, nes pas?


As for the rest of your post, I'm afraid I don't understand what you're saying other than you're not putting them in, no way, no how (which I get).  

[FireSoul]

Oh.

Ok.. if ever I changed my mind and decided that X1 ships should have the correct loadouts .. that over the importance of the correct weaponry displayed, I would then use B racks for the GX, and E racks for the CX.

.. but I use the G and C racks as is, with 3 reloads instead of 2 as per SFB on the stock ship. I found the aestatics.. the look and feel, to be important.

-- Luc

[Corbomite]

Quote:

H-XCA - 60 power
L-XCA- 56 Power
K-XCA - 56 Power
F-XCA - 56 Power
I-XCA - 53 Power
G-XCA - 52 Power
R-XCA- 52 Power
Z-XCA- 42 Power
 

Where did you get these numbers? The X2 ships are as follows:

H-XCA - 66 power

L-XCA - 62 power

K-XCA - 62 power

F-XCA - 58 power

I-XCA - 60 power

G-XCA - 58 power

R-XCA - 59 power

Z-XCA - 48 power

The Z-CCX has 57 power, not 52.

Seems to me the simplest solution is to make the Mirak X2 ships have 56-58 power and they would be fine. They don't need more because they don't have the Heavy Dizzys or Phaser B's to hold, which is why the Klingons have so much. The Lyrans have the ESG Lance to charge as well as the regular ESG and Phaser B's so same story with them. With the new HB charging and holding costs the Hydrans should be trimmed back a bit except for the XCB. The ISC got nothing new, just more of what they had and some Phaser A/B's, even still they are slow, but pack a punch. The Feds have the best long range weapon in the game so they don't need any more power even though they are underpowered for what they pack. E and X Plasma aren't that expensive to hold and other Plasma can be downgraded if power is needed, so the Roms and Gorn are fine.


 

[Fluf]

Sorry FS, but I hate the G rack.  Taldren never fixed it as they should have and could have.  I know you are doing your shiplist based on SFB and I salute you for that.  But unfortunately, SFB doesnt always translate to SFC in a balanced way.  All we were doing was giving you an alternative that seemed a logical progression to the Kzin X1 ships.  The only problem is that if your shiplist is used as the standard shiplist in OP play on a particular server, this could be a problem.

But your right, any admin can change and do the shiplist as he wants, so I guess this is a moot point.  Thanks for all your hard work.  

[FireSoul]

Quote:
Sorry FS, but I hate the G rack.  Taldren never fixed it as they should have and could have.  I know you are doing your shiplist based on SFB and I salute you for that.  But unfortunately, SFB doesnt always translate to SFC in a balanced way.  All we were doing was giving you an alternative that seemed a logical progression to the Kzin X1 ships.  The only problem is that if your shiplist is used as the standard shiplist in OP play on a particular server, this could be a problem.

But your right, any admin can change and do the shiplist as he wants, so I guess this is a moot point.  Thanks for all your hard work.    

A lot of people hate the G rack.
.. but I have adopted it as a rule for this shiplist. .. it's .. well.. very SFC like.
-- Luc

[Kortez]

Quote:
[quote

Wow. That seems pretty bad, but you know what else looks bad? The Plasma races get less power than the Klingons and Federation, who have drones on board. Since drones don't cost any power to use, I could understand a Mirak having less power because they have fewer energy-draining weapons, but then the Fed and Klingon ships should also be lower than they are now using that rationale, though their X-heavies do cost power wheras the MIRV doesn't. As an experiment, has anyone tried giving ALL XCAs 56 power, except the Hydran 60 (though I'm not clear why theirs would be so high, unless it's due to hold costs)? Or, try the 52-53 range?  

The Hydrans get more power in SFB because all of their weapons use power, unlike the drone races, including rearming their fighter's fusions and hellbores


   



Come on!  The Mirak X heavies are horrible pieces of junk.  You try flying one and you will see.  Good luck cruising around at about speed 15.

And yes, this is FS's shiplist, and he can do what he wants with it.  I can tell you this, though, since I know the Mirak are going to get the worst x-ships by far, I cannot imagine any reason to fly Mirak unless you just like sacrificing yourself so everybody else can have a good old time at your expense.

 

[KBF-Dogmatix]

You know what you should do, Kortez.  Nevermind flying Mirak wishing you have Klingon tools.  Just fly Klingon, mah brutha!  


I know that isn't the point, but it's a thought!  

[Kortez]

Quote:
You know what you should do, Kortez.  Nevermind flying Mirak wishing you have Klingon tools.  Just fly Klingon, mah brutha!  


I know that isn't the point, but it's a thought!    

Hmmm ... you have a point, you know, and I love the K-XCA!

 

[Fluf]

Doh,  actually Kortez was a Klingon in the GFL and we kidnapped him.  So his change over to the Mirak shiplist has been, well for lack of better words, less then stellar for him.  He just plain thinks the Mirak shiplist sucks.  Unfortunately, I have to agree with him on alot of his points.  But I have always flown Mirak since the game came out and have always managed to overcome.

[Rod O'neal]

[quote

The Hydrans get more power in SFB because all of their weapons use power, unlike the drone races, including rearming their fighter's fusions and hellbores


   
Come on!  The Mirak X heavies are horrible pieces of junk.  You try flying one and you will see.  Good luck cruising around at about speed 15.



 



This was just to answer why the Hydrans get so much power. It's a carry over from SFB, where they need it. Since it doesn't cost anything to arm ftr fusions and HBs in SFC it's probably out of whack. Except that when a Hydran looses his/her ftrs then they're undergunned. Since fusion ftrs have to fly through a sh*tstorm of phasers and adds to get a shot off, loosing ftrs happens pretty fast. I understand what everyone is saying about the mirak x-ships. Even the Klingons aren't disputing that.  

[Kortez]

Quote:
[quote

The Hydrans get more power in SFB because all of their weapons use power, unlike the drone races, including rearming their fighter's fusions and hellbores


   
Come on!  The Mirak X heavies are horrible pieces of junk.  You try flying one and you will see.  Good luck cruising around at about speed 15.



 

This was just to answer why the Hydrans get so much power. It's a carry over from SFB, where they need it. Since it doesn't cost anything to arm ftr fusions and HBs in SFC it's probably out of whack. Except that when a Hydran looses his/her ftrs then they're undergunned. Since fusion ftrs have to fly through a sh*tstorm of phasers and adds to get a shot off, loosing ftrs happens pretty fast. I understand what everyone is saying about the mirak x-ships. Even the Klingons aren't disputing that.  



I know, and I certainly am not trying to be obnoxious (tough I achieve that effortlessly, with sprezzatura), nor to appear to be getting down on anyone (thought that obnoxious Klingon attitude of mine always pops up--ok, I admit it, I am a real Klingon spy on Earth).

It's just I am passionate about the Mirak shiplist.  Fluf is right.  I think their ships SUCK!  

 

[IndyShark]

Firesoul, can you check the Democracy class battlecruisers to see why they only have 2 gattling phasers and the LDR light and heavy cruisers all have 4? It seems to me that this is a mistake, but perhaps that is correct as far as SFB goes.

Thanks!
 

[Corbomite]

Quote:
Firesoul, can you check the Democracy class battlecruisers to see why they only have 2 gattling phasers and the LDR light and heavy cruisers all have 4? It seems to me that this is a mistake, but perhaps that is correct as far as SFB goes.

Thanks!
 

I'm no expert, but I think it might have to do with the fact that they have 6 Disruptors and 4 ESG's vs 4 Disruptors and 2 ESG's.

[FireSoul]

Quote:
Firesoul, can you check the Democracy class battlecruisers to see why they only have 2 gattling phasers and the LDR light and heavy cruisers all have 4? It seems to me that this is a mistake, but perhaps that is correct as far as SFB goes.

Thanks!
 

It's accurate..
.. they opted for 2 ph1s LS/RS 2 phGs LS/RS  .. instead of 4 phGs LS/RS.

-- Luc