Topic: Reclamation: 2275 is here.  (Read 10005 times)

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jdmckinney

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Re: Reclamation: 2275 is here.
« Reply #100 on: April 24, 2003, 08:04:28 am »
Back to the topic of supplies, seeing the settings next to each other makes it obvious why players were feeling the pressure on their wallets -- there's such a wide difference from what they're used to.

That said, I like Castrin's idea of making in-dock repair more expensive. That way, even if you use all your spares in a mission, you are still going to have a mean repair bill because hull is not repairable. If a smaller ship is able to beat up a bigger one enough even in a losing cause, it will be a moral victory just being able to cost your opponent some dough.

We can't go back to 8 spares max, because it is not a settings-controlled variable, but a code change. So, we have to find that happy medium.

I DO like the idea of having price changes over time. For instance, at mid era, medium drones should be pretty pricey, but affordable. Instead of then seeing fast drones at double that price when they come out, you could edit the prices so fast ones now cost what medium ones did, and the mediums become half as expensive. This way, it's the same cost per drone to keep a ship stocked in any given era, or you get rewarded with savings by using lesser drones.

Similarly, repairs and spares could be made less expensive at the beginning of a campaign, to help players bear the burden of weak ships, and then become pricier as the campaign advances, reflecting the difficulty in keeping up with the demand for new ship parts and the price of training crew -- after all, if you come home wounded, chances are you lost crew, who have to be replaced.

Marines can probably be made reasonable again as long as you take out of the shipyard (class as special) the over-the-top commando tugs and what have you that load near a hundred or even more boarding parties.

Mines I don't think need to be all that expensive -- they are not usually a balance issue as far as I know.

KOTH-Steel Claw

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Re: Reclamation: 2275 is here.
« Reply #101 on: April 24, 2003, 08:22:26 am »
It's too bad supply dock prices can't be controlled by hull class.

 
Quote:

 Mines I don't think need to be all that expensive -- they are not usually a balance issue as far as I know.




These should be controlled by player account. J'inn should not be able to afford any so he can't T-bomb an ally.

KBF-Dogmatix

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Re: Reclamation: 2275 is here.
« Reply #102 on: April 24, 2003, 10:15:58 am »
That all sounds pretty reasonable to me, Nomad.  I even like the idea of the expensive dock repairs in lieu of expensive spare parts...as long as we don't go completely crazy with that, too.  More expensive is fine on that.  Too espensive is not, of course.  I'm not sure atr what level this would become egregious.  I know when I finished a mission on LB3 yesterday (barely won one of those furball fleet actions and I was the last ship standing out of 12 that started), I spent about 200 points on hull repairs and then another 300 or more restocking my ship.  Good thing the mission payoff was 1200 pp.  If it were the usual 300-500 pp, it would have sucked--- yea, verily.


All expensive supplies do is make it hard to get started.  They have little effect once you've gotten the war machine rolling and have amassed a decent bankroll.  That being the case, I just don't see the point of flogging each new captain to the server until he doesn't wanna play anymore...heheh.




And Moggy...your comments are in line with what I understand to be the state of OP D2, so I'm not real sure what Dizzy is talking about when he says the patch left the OP D2 "in tatters" or whatever.  That's completely different from everything else I've heard and seen on the subject.

FireSoul

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Re: Reclamation: 2275 is here.
« Reply #103 on: April 24, 2003, 11:54:51 am »
Quote:

 ... I'm not real sure what Dizzy is talking about when he says the patch left the OP D2 "in tatters" or whatever.




Tasty Taters maybe?
Seriously, I've poured a lot of work into that patch, and I will admit a lot of the delay was my fault.. but .. the patch is rock solid for what it was supposed to do.
 

FireSoul

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Re: Reclamation: 2275 is here.
« Reply #104 on: April 24, 2003, 12:00:36 pm »
Quote:

 
Quote:

 Not for OP?



More people play EAW online(30-50) vs OP (7-12)..  




 http://208.57.228.4/ubbthreads/showflat.php?Cat=&Board=UBB12&Number=72933



That's EXACTLY why I didn't make a EAW+ refit shiplist.

KBF-Dogmatix

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Re: Reclamation: 2275 is here.
« Reply #105 on: April 24, 2003, 12:27:06 pm »
Unfortunate (in both cases).  If I could do either, I would.  



 

FireSoul

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Re: Reclamation: 2275 is here.
« Reply #106 on: April 24, 2003, 12:42:08 pm »
Quote:

Unfortunate (in both cases).  If I could do either, I would.  
 




This thread made me think..
.. if I made a "EAW+" .. would it impact OP player numbers? Would LESS people play OP because a similar shiplist would exist for EAW?

.. because I could create a EAW shiplist faster than most people could imagine.. all through perl scripting.
- nuke maulers
- change KFX to FX,
- nuke X stuff.  (entire advanced era)  
- nuke LDR and WYN ships
- nuke any entries that don't have a corresponding model in EAW.
- nuke extra pirate cartels

.. but seriously.. would it HURT OP if I did that?

Dizzy

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Re: Reclamation: 2275 is here.
« Reply #107 on: April 24, 2003, 12:49:41 pm »
 
Quote:

 Mog wrote:

As one of the SFCX members involved in this initial testing following the 2538 patch, please enlighten me in detail on these supposed "horrors" that we found.

Whilst I'm waiting for that to happen, please allow me to tell you what we have found.

The pirate cartel interaction with the empire layer now allows raising of DV when the pirate layer is neutral. This is a huge and positive change from the previous version. It brings the DV boosting process up to the same level as EAW.

The mission speed bug has gone. Now, the Federation and pirates no longer have an unfair advantage in being able to run missions at game speed 11.

Neutral co-op not affecting DV is still around. EAW still has that too.

Shiplist. OP can now contain double the number of ship entries that EAW can. Add to that OP has double the number of "race slots".

To me, that makes it look like OP is at least equal to EAW as a D2 platform. The "horrors" you allude to do not seem to be there. Language like that is unnecessary and only serves to put people off from playing on OP.





I will be pretty upset to know that OP works as good as EAW... cosidering all the time I have spent getting SG3 ready... and making the decision to go with EAW because OP didnt work right... or does it?

http://208.57.228.4/ubbthreads/showflat.php?Cat=&Board=UBB2&Number=69517&page=4&view=collapsed&sb=5&o=7&fpart=1

http://208.57.228.4/ubbthreads/showflat.php?Cat=&Board=UBB2&Number=64355&page=7&view=collapsed&sb=5&o=21&fpart=1

http://208.57.228.4/ubbthreads/showflat.php?Cat=&Board=UBB2&Number=54781&page=11&view=collapsed&sb=5&o=31&fpart=1

http://208.57.228.4/ubbthreads/showflat.php?Cat=&Board=UBB2&Number=48739&page=12&view=collapsed&sb=5&o=31&fpart=1

Those are just a few threads of many where there are a SLEW of [censored] that you guys cant get or dont know how to work.

Now answer me this: Dont you kinda think that its a little weird by now, after what a year or more of this game being out, that it isnt fixed yet? I mean... doesnt this strike you as odd? What must we do to get the fricking game to work?

I dont know about you, but damn... I think that is whacked. Anyone who puts out a game and has it out for this long ought to at least get it to work a little better than it does... I just find this all surprising...

Ok. If you sfcx ppl think OP is ready for SG3, it doesnt seem to be, you guys are testing it like OP is a frickin beta product, then go ahead and tell me why.

Or tell me why not. Hell just tell me why SG3 would be better on OP than EAW. I'll listen. I want it on OP. I picked EAW cuz of the talk me and castrin had. I decided that since u guys couldnt get straight and consistent results on DV changes, among other things, that OP just wasnt ready for prime time. Now you are telling me that OP is ready? Really? Its all fixed? No D2 problems? I mustve missed that post... It sure as hell should have been an important one.

So tell me, while I am suddenly open to suggestion, is OP ready for a campaign like SG3? Why? And would you guys support me and SG3 if it went to OP just as if it were your own server?

 
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 06:00:00 pm by Dizzy »

NuclearWessels

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Re: Reclamation: 2275 is here.
« Reply #108 on: April 24, 2003, 01:03:27 pm »
Heya Diz,

with respect to the four threads you referenced, the overwhelming majority of the issues were with the first release of my scripts in OP, not dyna issues.

Thread (1) is the neutral coop issue - exact same problem exists in EAW

Thread (2) was server setting and mission script issues (remember this was the very first release of the ED missions on OP and the first use of the OP+ shiplist campaign-wise, so there were bound to be bugs - most of those have now been addressed)

Thread (3) was pretty much all scripting bugs from what I could see, and most of those have now been addressed

Thread (4), again from what I could see, was a combination of shiplist and script bugs

Translation - none of those bugs were D2 issues except the one big one that also exists in EAW.

dave
   

FireSoul

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Re: Reclamation: 2275 is here.
« Reply #109 on: April 24, 2003, 01:07:10 pm »
Quote:


Now answer me this: Dont you kinda think that its a little weird by now, after what a year or more of this game being out, that it isnt fixed yet? I mean... doesnt this strike you as odd? What must we do to get the fricking game to work?





You REALLY want to know?

.. Fine. Someone rich needs to HIRE MagnumMan to fix the OP D2 and all other things. He did all the work for EAW for free and now if any more work is to be done, he wants to be paid for it, because he's got to be able to LIVE. THAT's what someone needs to do.

This game wouldn't even be in a playable shape right now if it wasn't for him, and because all his free work went towards EAW, you take it for granted like it's a better game.

There's your answer. EAW was [censored] too once and OP is in far better shape than you give it credit.

Getting pissed off at game-bigots,
-- Luc

FPF_TraceyG

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Re: Reclamation: 2275 is here.
« Reply #110 on: April 24, 2003, 01:35:05 pm »
I'd be more than happy to fix OP if I had the source code.

FPF_TraceyG

  • Guest
Re: Reclamation: 2275 is here.
« Reply #111 on: April 24, 2003, 01:36:23 pm »
Actually, if I had the source code... I'd probably turn it into GAW... <dream sequence music starts playing in the background>

Dizzy

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Re: Reclamation: 2275 is here.
« Reply #112 on: April 24, 2003, 02:11:43 pm »
Quote:

Quote:


Now answer me this: Dont you kinda think that its a little weird by now, after what a year or more of this game being out, that it isnt fixed yet? I mean... doesnt this strike you as odd? What must we do to get the fricking game to work?





You REALLY want to know?

.. Fine. Someone rich needs to HIRE MagnumMan to fix the OP D2 and all other things. He did all the work for EAW for free and now if any more work is to be done, he wants to be paid for it, because he's got to be able to LIVE. THAT's what someone needs to do.

This game wouldn't even be in a playable shape right now if it wasn't for him, and because all his free work went towards EAW, you take it for granted like it's a better game.

There's your answer. EAW was [censored] too once and OP is in far better shape than you give it credit.

Getting pissed off at game-bigots,
-- Luc  




Dont get ur feathers ruffled, FS.

How much money does Magnum man want? Oops... let Tracey do it She's cheap

FOR THE LOVE OF GOD>>> Someone please run me a list of OP D2 related so far unfixable problems.

FireSoul

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Re: Reclamation: 2275 is here.
« Reply #113 on: April 24, 2003, 04:31:27 pm »
Quote:

I'd be more than happy to fix OP if I had the source code.  




I believe DavidF stated no new deals with new people..
.. but in Mag's case, I think they approached him and he turned them down.


.. so I'm saying they would refuse you Tracey, but not Mags. Sorry.

KOTH-Steel Claw

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Re: Reclamation: 2275 is here.
« Reply #114 on: April 24, 2003, 05:02:26 pm »
 
Quote:

 FOR THE LOVE OF GOD>>> Someone please run me a list of OP D2 related so far unfixable problems.




D2 related unfixable #1: Dizzy not involved in a flame thread.  

CptCastrin

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Re: Reclamation: 2275 is here.
« Reply #115 on: April 24, 2003, 05:15:51 pm »
Quote:


Now answer me this: Dont you kinda think that its a little weird by now, after what a year or more of this game being out, that it isnt fixed yet? I mean... doesnt this strike you as odd? What must we do to get the fricking game to work?

I dont know about you, but damn... I think that is whacked. Anyone who puts out a game and has it out for this long ought to at least get it to work a little better than it does... I just find this all surprising...




No comment, I prefer not to get banned or lose my testers rights.

I will say this however, Dave (@Taldren) has continued slow (read very slow because of other demands on his time) but thoughtful work on SFC:OP as well as other things. Not much but it does count AFAIK.

Quote:

Ok. If you sfcx ppl think OP is ready for SG3, it doesnt seem to be, you guys are testing it like OP is a frickin beta product, then go ahead and tell me why.




Well we really are past the "beta" stage now Diz, honestly if it were as bad as it was we wouldn't be running a campaign on it. True that Reclamation isn't a "serious" campaign, it's more a light hearted, mini-campaign but it does have VCs and it does have goals. I don't (nor does Nomad, the lead admin on this run) need the headaches of a campaign that is fubared from the begining.

The key we have found is not just the server (which has had some work done to it) but the scripts. The stock scripts for OP are, honestly, crap. They seem to not even follow their own rules. NW's scripts have fixed many problems in said scripts but nothing is perfect mind you. We still have a coop bug (getting better) and though DV raising and lowering is vastly improved it's still not 100%.

Quote:

Or tell me why not. Hell just tell me why SG3 would be better on OP than EAW. I'll listen. I want it on OP. I picked EAW cuz of the talk me and castrin had. I decided that since u guys couldnt get straight and consistent results on DV changes, among other things, that OP just wasnt ready for prime time. Now you are telling me that OP is ready? Really? Its all fixed? No D2 problems? I mustve missed that post... It sure as hell should have been an important one.

So tell me, while I am suddenly open to suggestion, is OP ready for a campaign like SG3? Why?




I can't. In the end it's your call, I'll not try to convince you one way or the other.

However I will say this, it'd be a shame to stall SG3 after the work you (and others) have put into it and "porting" it to OP could do that. Since you have planed it for EaW all along then I'd say run it there and plan SG4 for OP. It's not that I think EaW is fundamentally better but that SG3 has always been planed for it and there is no over-riding reason to second guess yourself.

Quote:

 And would you guys support me and SG3 if it went to OP just as if it were your own server?




If you run it in EaW or OP, we in SFCx will support you as we can. We are not like SFC2.net with lots of resorces for scripting and what not. We never have and probably never will. We're just a bunch of friends that try to run some cool D2 servers as a team. But what we can do we will regardless of where you run SG3.    

EmeraldEdge

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Re: Reclamation: 2275 is here.
« Reply #116 on: April 24, 2003, 08:21:45 pm »
Quote:

Quote:

Now answer me this: Dont you kinda think that its a little weird by now, after what a year or more of this game being out, that it isnt fixed yet? I mean... doesnt this strike you as odd? What must we do to get the fricking game to work?

I dont know about you, but damn... I think that is whacked. Anyone who puts out a game and has it out for this long ought to at least get it to work a little better than it does... I just find this all surprising...




No comment, I prefer not to get banned or lose my testers rights.

I will say this however, Dave (@Taldren) has continued slow (read very slow because of other demands on his time) but thoughtful work on SFC:OP as well as other things. Not much but it does count AFAIK.




Heh, it's good to learn from others mistakes, eh?  Although I'm not sure I would classify what I said as a mistake, since I feel it was the truth and not out of line, in fact was rather tame in comparison to what others have said.  As far as other things, they were just taken out of context and not read through properly due to state of mind of the reader so...  

Just for the record though , it was over a year without a patch of any kind, and at least 6 months before that, that the game was released, I believe.  We'll be closing on the game being out for over 2 years here soon, although I don't remember the exact date I believe it was late July to early June (for some reason the 4th or 6th come to mind).  Until now, only a couple of almost insignificant fixes, along with the addition of some fairly major bugs, is what the D2 has recieved.  It's nice to see it's finally had some attention, it's just too bad it came so late in the game.

As far as some other things.  I may have trouble with the way Dizzy comports himself, but I have helped him in the past and am always willing to do so.  That's what we started SFCX for after all, to help others to expand the game.  My time is limited and eratic lately (due to some health issues), though, I haven't even been much help to the SFCX group.  Hopefully I'll be able to get back into full action soon.    

CptCastrin

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Re: Reclamation: 2275 is here.
« Reply #117 on: April 25, 2003, 10:11:02 am »
Quote:

All expensive supplies do is make it hard to get started.  They have little effect once you've gotten the war machine rolling and have amassed a decent bankroll.  That being the case, I just don't see the point of flogging each new captain to the server until he doesn't wanna play anymore...heheh.




And on that note I'd invite all those disenchanted with the pricing on Reclamation to give it a second chance.

Prices have been changed and the yards are now well stocked.

We went with the high dock repair premium but spares are rather cheap so if you feel gutsy you can always repair in combat. But regardless I'd like feedback on how things are now so please speak up.

And thanks for all the great feedback to date.    

KBF-Dogmatix

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Re: Reclamation: 2275 is here.
« Reply #118 on: April 25, 2003, 10:35:33 am »
The reduced supply costs are much appreciated.  I think they will definitely help people get started and get to the 4.5K or so they need to get into a decent war destroyer.


Speaking of which...I finally got to bid on a D5L this morning on Reclamation!   YAY!  I just can't stand the D5W and that's what I'd been flying for the last day and a half.  It's just too slow vs. plasma boats and all I'm seeing is Gorn AI.  It's ironic, the timeline is farther ahead on LB3 and I have yet to see a single D5L in the yard on that server.  I never would have guessed I'd get one on Reclamation first.  Wacky...


Having a good time on both server, though.  Fighting plasma or Mirak drones in ED missions is always a good challenge.