Topic: The Problems With Star Trek Movies

[MrCue]

what is needed here is an Interactive TV or Holosuite. Then we could watch whatever, from any angle we wanted.

And when Matrix 2 & 3 come out, nothing else will be worth watching, just like when the first one came out.

[ChamadaIV]

sjvessey makes some very good points about the way people are with entertainment. Tastes do indeed change (the state of the world influences this heavily). Star Trek is already limited in the fact that its generally considered a sci-fi/action/drama franchise. The sci-fi should merely be a backdrop, the action and drama (particulary the drama) could go a lot further than it has.

Enterprise had an amazing opportunity to return Trek back to its roots. Sadly, they have centralized the series around a temporal cold war and conflict with the Klingons and other major Trek species. Exploring strange new worlds or dealing with other incredible and mysterious alien life-forms are too far and in between in the new show. The imagination is lacking, and it shows every Wednesday night. It feels too much like previous series. In the words of William Shatner when he commented on the current state of the franchise, "It's old hat."

When I look back at TNG and see some of those "thinking" episodes like the one where Dr. Crusher investigates the death of a Ferengi scientist who discovered metaphasic shield technology, I realize that once upon a time, the Paramount folks knew they could do so much more with Trek than "warp speed" or "shields down to 20 percent." Indeed, that series gave its viewers much to identify with.

Nemesis could've and should've been something else entirely. It could have been a thought provoking mystery that twisted your mind until the very end. It could have been a suspense thriller involving more of the characters, and less of the ship itself. Any number of things, but my point is that Paramount needs to take time off from Trek, cut the new series short (I say no more than four seasons), and rethink their franchise strategy for the latter part of the current decade and into the next one.

Most important of all, Paramount should pay more attention to what its fans want. If you please the current fanbase with what they want yet offer something more that the mainstream can appreciate and enjoy (like what TNG attempted to do), then you will have sucess and an even larger fanbase than before.  

[rmahannah]

ChamadaIV,

        I strongly agree with your comments.  I know that there are many writers out there who could do a lot more with Star Trek than the paid writers thay have on staff now.  I think they are suffering from tunnel vision or something.  I can see two or three episodes being linked in storyline, but then let's move on to something new!  Why hammer it into the ground, and make us not care by the last episode.  I think I am going to buy one of those computer programs that helps you write stories and screenplays.  I have some good ideas...  Just tell me where to send them!!  

[Tus]

I think that not only should they rethink how they do startrek, but take it from another angle.   I for one don't mind watching the feds win every time, but i would love to see a series based around roms or klinkers instead of the feds.   now that would be somthing i could enjoy watching


Tus  

[ChamadaIV]

Quote:
ChamadaIV,

        I strongly agree with your comments.  I know that there are many writers out there who could do a lot more with Star Trek than the paid writers thay have on staff now.  I think they are suffering from tunnel vision or something.  I can see two or three episodes being linked in storyline, but then let's move on to something new!  Why hammer it into the ground, and make us not care by the last episode.  I think I am going to buy one of those computer programs that helps you write stories and screenplays.  I have some good ideas...  Just tell me where to send them!!    

Why not write novels for Trek? Create some new, refreshing material. Paramount shouldn't be afraid to sign deals with bright new authors in order to create good material for their sci-fi cash cow. Perhaps Trek should go the route of the printed book entirely, and disappear from visual media for awhile. A compromise that keeps the property alive without causing it to vanish all together.

Some of Shatner's books are good (even if he doesn't necessarily write them). The Avenger series shows an aging (and resurrected) Captain Kirk as he struggles with his newly revived career as a Starfleet officer and his love for a Klingon-descended woman. Star Trek: Preserver, for example, was Trek like it should be, touching upon all the "usual" stuff, (including the mirror universe and a battle with the Enterprise vs. a Federation Intrepid class - quite a surprise) while focusing on Kirk's struggle with his arch nemesis, his duty to Starfleet, his lover, and an ancient alien artifact that was linked to an old race of galaxy-protecting beings. All of this mixed with an exciting blend of suspense, drama, and action made the Star Trek: Nemesis script look like amatuer work.

Try your hand at it. Who knows, you might end up being as successful as Tom Clancy or Ann Rice, and even have your own line of movies and/or video games.  

"...And the sky's the limit." - Capt. Picard, the last words from TNG finale "All Good Things"          

[**DONOTDELETE**]

Quote:
They need less techno-babble, more character and story.  Simple as that, as far as I'm concerned.  

Perhaps, but....

It?s just possible that the theta resonance would amplify the linear matter, but only if we destabilize the magnetic neural net and analyze the diagnostic schism!

From the Mac program "Techobabble". A web version is  here.  Now you too can write a script as well as B&B!  

[Gamester]

Amen!

Star Trek has taken a serious nosedive starting with TNG. All the techno-babble BS is but one of the symptoms. I realize that this sort of thing appeals to some people (or TNG would have tanked after season 1) Personally (if I was somehow unclear) I think that pretty much everything Star Trek since TNG has been horrible and Gene Roddenberry WAS around to start that! I have seen all 10 movies, and ST 6 was the last really good one. Of the TNG movies, the only 2 that weren't thoroughly awful IMHO were First Contact (felt flat and contrived) and Nemesis (had long parts were the film just DRAGGED).  They REALLY need to work on character development and storylines. Personally I have had a hard time caring for most of the charcters in the later iterations of Star Trek. At the end of Nemesis, I wasn't sad, I was relived. It is this they need to correct. In short:

Problems with modern Trek:

1) Techno-Babble. We don't need episodes based on and around Techno-Babble.

2) Character Development. The characters in Trek often seem to feel flat or preachy. If I want to be preached at, I'll go to church or call my mother.

3) Plot Development. Much of modern Trek feels to lack focus or feel pointless. Also, See #1

4) The token combat sequence. This is the throw-the-fans-a-bone thing in modern Trek - when things get TOO boring, show a couple short fight sequences. Hence the immense popularity of TNG's Borg episodes.

 (It could be argued that Old Trek did the same thing, but for whatever reason, in Old Trek, combat felt TENSE)

This is all just my humble opinion, so take it with a grain of salt.

Gamester
 

[sjvessey]

Right, in the REAL world, what's the likelihood that all the senior officers on a starship would like each other?  Where are the arguments?  The petty back-stabbing?  The currying favour with the captain?  The office politics?  They never get depressed.  They never get annoyed.  They are never wrong.  They never cheat.  They never cover their own ass when they make a mistake, because they don't make mistakes.  How many people get killed and they just go to the mess hall and say "what's for dessert?"  When cops shoot people they have psychological counselling to get over the trauma.  How many people have Picard, Ryker and the rest done in over the years, and it doesn't seem to bother them at all.

For anyone over the age of 15, the whole thing is just flat and two dimensional.  The characters are too idealistic, and that's why they don't seem real.  They appear to have no personal motivation (or lives) whatsoever.

Sometimes I think that CGI effects are to blame for many things.  The last Bond film, for example, was ruined by them.  Go back to the 60s and you had to concentrate more on the people because the effects were awful and you couldn't possibly build a whole episode around them.

But then again, how much of your perception of those old TOS episodes is coloured by the fact that a) you were probably only 12 years old when you saw them the first time, and b) it was all fresh and new and different to anything that had gone before?


 

[sjvessey]

I mean, how likely is it that you go out into space and discover the Roman empire re-born except this time they have pointy ears?  Romulus and Remus?  The Praetor?  The Imperial Senate?  Please... they even seem to wear togas...
 

[Magnum357]

Hey, if your going to blaim anybody, blaim the writers of TOS that made the Romulans.  Don't know why they resemble Romans so much.  Maybe its just the Feds that label them "Romulans" because that is the closest thing that humans can relate the race too.  Ok, sort of a cheesy way to explain it, but I do like the Romulans.  

[ChamadaIV]

Quote:
Right, in the REAL world, what's the likelihood that all the senior officers on a starship would like each other?  Where are the arguments?  The petty back-stabbing?  The currying favour with the captain?  The office politics?  They never get depressed.  They never get annoyed.  They are never wrong.  They never cheat.  They never cover their own ass when they make a mistake, because they don't make mistakes.  How many people get killed and they just go to the mess hall and say "what's for dessert?"  When cops shoot people they have psychological counselling to get over the trauma.  How many people have Picard, Ryker and the rest done in over the years, and it doesn't seem to bother them at all.

You're right about pretty much everything above. It's strange, for example, how well everyone accepted those 15 deaths the Enterprise-D suffered during its first encounter with a Borg cutting beam from a Cube. Captain Picard got angry at Q, but that's about it. We could only assume they held a memorial after the episode ended.

If we're gonna make things more believable, we need to get Paramount and Aaron Spelling on the phone. I can see it now...

"Star Trek: Stardate 90210"  

or perhaps make it a daytime show for the ladies and call it "One Trek to Live" or "As the Star Turns"  

No, seriously, Trek could use technobabble. Why? Because its a way of illustrating advanced technology and knowledge of the theoretical future. Things like silicon microprocessors and fibre optic wire would be laughable to still have in the 23rd-24th centuries. I kinda like the idea of isolinear chips and subspace communication.   But I could do without the Jeffries tubes.   Trek is now bound to the hallmark of technotalk, but it should be slimmed down a bit, imo. Not be taken away entirely, again imo.

Before they dropped the Enterprise series on us, I had hoped they would take us back to school, Starfleet Academy that is. Plenty of opportunity for character development there. What better way to draw in the young crowd than offer them a little something they expect from shows like Dawson's Creek (sorry for mentioning such blasphemy, but bear with me) with the youthful teens discovering themselves and the world while still keeping it Star Trek? Meanwhile, throw in the adult interactions (like we see in Boston Public) to draw in the older audience. Thus, not only do you have the hardcore lot (if you keep the atmosphere vintage Trek) watching, but you also have a show the mainstream audiences can enjoy as well.

I also had hopes for them doing a show about Captain Sulu's adventures on the Excelsior after ST VI, but that doesn't look like it'll ever happen...  

So there's my ideas and BUMP for this thread.  




     

[sjvessey]

At the end of the day, Star Trek isn't serious, hard-hitting cutting edge drama.  It's nice, warm, formulistic, cozy and moralising.  Bad people don't really exist and phasers can be set on 'stun' so no-one gets hurt.  You'd almost think it was made by Disney.  If you lose your leg in an accident, don't worry, the kind old doctor will just grow you a new one.  Even when people are (shock, horror) killed, it's always in a very 'clean' way.  Energy weapons simply make people fall over.  They don't splatter bits of flesh and bone all over the walls.