Topic: Reclamation: 2275 is here.

[NuclearWessels]

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Firesoul, the O-CA was an addition given to Lyrans only for planet assaults, because of the long time it takes them to accomplish these missions.

Really? I didn't know that.
Maybe NW should look at my above post and see if he could prevent abuse.

-- Luc  

Actually I think the next go-round will remove the pirate assistant in OP at least: since the Lyrans have maulers in OP it's much easier to take out bases and planets if you want to.

In EAW  I'll set it up  so your helper is more variable (maybe the O-CA, maybe a smaller pirate with a couple of drone racks, maybe nothing), but never larger than the ship you've got.  Right now you can take an FF into some of the assault missions, get the O-CA plus the usual AI help, and run fairly rampant ...

dave
   

[jdmckinney]

Dave, I think the pirate helper is a good idea, at least for now. After all, maulers are not always good ships to fly for any given mission, and people can't just trade ships in and get different ones for each mission or string of missions. Most Lyrans will still be using CWs with disruptors and ESGs to attack planets. If using a stock shiplist, there's not even the LDR available, much less the WYN included in OP+. I think the tweak to a variable mercenary size and perhaps a chance for no help at all would be good, but removing it altogether before seeing OP Lyrans in action in a true large-scale campaign would be premature.

It has been nice to see some Lyrans on Reclamation. Maybe I'll feel like I can fly something else next time around.

[KBF-Dogmatix]

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I <snip>


Is it 'Qapla' or Qa Pla'?  

Qapla'!


When referring to Feds or any of their puppet government allies, you should call them petaQ!.  





 

[jimmi7769]

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Dave, I think the pirate helper is a good idea, at least for now. After all, maulers are not always good ships to fly for any given mission, and people can't just trade ships in and get different ones for each mission or string of missions. Most Lyrans will still be using CWs with disruptors and ESGs to attack planets. If using a stock shiplist, there's not even the LDR available, much less the WYN included in OP+. I think the tweak to a variable mercenary size and perhaps a chance for no help at all would be good, but removing it altogether before seeing OP Lyrans in action in a true large-scale campaign would be premature.

It has been nice to see some Lyrans on Reclamation. Maybe I'll feel like I can fly something else next time around.  

I thought the LDR were in the stock OP shiplist.  

I think the droner helper for the Lyrans is a good thing, if there is some abuse of it I wouldn't think it would really amount to much.  No worse than a sector full of D5D's, NCD's and MCD's.

Poor Lyran brothers, they need a break.

[Capt Jeff]

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What I see as a bigger danger to the community as a whole is all the snippy statements going around from admins in the last few weeks.  You want to drive programmers away from SFC development or potential programmers from mission scripting then let's just keep it up.  Same goes for people with campaign ideas that would love to admin a campaign. When they see the admins acting like this who in their right mind would consider the techies reliable enough to get  the job done.



Statements like "STFU" from admins only get people irritated and consider you a person to be ignored.  

You know,  I could go on and on about my commitments and time spent helping better this game and community, but I don't have the ego to go on and on about it like someone here.

What have you done so far ?  How long have you had friendships with people from this board?

If you knew some of these people half as well as I do, you'd know that sometimes Dizzy needs to be talked to in a manner that HE understands to make it stick.
 

[KOTH-Steel Claw]

 

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 I'm with you there. I actually prefer OP's shiplist and stock mission pack over EAW. With FireSoul's shiplist and Dave's mission packs, it's even better. The big problem with OP has always been the dyna map and how it works (or doesn't). If that is made to work as well as the EAW dyna does (granted IT isn't perfect, either), then I'd be advocating a community-wide swtich to OP. There have been some GREAT OP campaigns despite the problems caused by the cartel map. None has quite surpassed the very best EAW campaigns, in my humble opinion, but I think the potential to do so is there.

I think you have hit on one of the big issues here with the map and cartels. With the ever shrinking player base, it may prove too tough to play OP races and cartels with any decent numbers.

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If LB3 had the same supply costs as Reclamation does, I'd probably play on Reclamation more. I wanna play with that shiplist in a dyna setting. I don't do single-player campaignsin SFC. I haven't since SFC1.
 

Supply costs can be a big issue for drone races. I don't know what they are for the Reclamation server, but if they are prohibitive, expect fewer to play.

I like both EAW and OP (I have all four SFC titles). When we run 10-15 servers and you have about 50 people to chose from, it makes for a poor showing for most servers. Since players tend to gravitate to one or two, this leaves others empty. This can be both good and bad. It does force the admins to put up an interesting, fun, and different server. Otherwise, it's a ghost town on their game.

As for which game is better, that is a matter of personal opinion.

 

[KBF-Dogmatix]

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For what it's worth, I don't intend to play EAW again. It appears that OP now has the same gameplay capability as EAW but with extra features and stability. And though the gamplay is not entirely proven I intend to make a commitment to OP only at this time, both for D2 and GSA.    

<shrug> Whatever.  I feel no pull towards OP.  I still find EAW to be a superior performer in D2 gameplay, server stability, and lag.

Now, if someone puts up a killer OP server with a concept that sucks me in, I'll dig up my copy of OP and play.  No question.  But I'll still know where my home is.  

My apologies to the SFX guys for posting this in their thread.  I ignored the comments for a while, but the EAW bashing was getting a little heavy and it is the game I prefer.  I won't post on this topic within this thread again.  I support your efforts, and to make ammends to you I'll try to put in some time playing on Reclamation.

-S'Cipio  

To be honest, S'Cipio...I really haven't seen any EAW bashing, eh?  If you really wanted to look for it, you could maybe take offense to the minor whinge about "campaign scheduling and wait your turn," but that's a stretch.    If anything, i'm seeing mainly pro-OP "give it a chance, it's now just as good and check out the OP+ shiplist that FireSould did." kind of stuff.  

Your mileage may vary (and apparently has), but I get noticeably more stability when playing on an OP dyna when it comes to co-op and PvP.  I'm not sure what it is, but it just seems to work better.  Less lag...fewer "hoest left, new host..." messages.  I don't know exactly how things are in the new patch though because I haven't flown a single co-op or PvP mission on Reclamation.  I haven't heard any news about it having gotten worse, though.  If anyone has any data to the contrary, feel free to speak up.


By now, most of you probably know me (most those probably wish they didn't   ).  One thing Ihave always been is pro-SFC Community.  I have no more love for EAW  than I do OP (no love for SFC3, no love!   ).  I may have more fond campaign memories relating to EAW, but the reasons for that are obvious.  I think both of them have their merits.  At thbis point in time, however, I feel OP is now technically the better product.  What makes EAW better overall is the fact that more people play it.  This means that if i'm looking for a rocking good time,  I'd rather be on an EAW server with 25 people and no OP+ shiplist or OP weapons and perhaps a little less stability than be on an OP server by myself or with two or three other people.  Move the population over to OP and it is my assertion that you have a richer gaming environment than EAW and have the potential to have campaigns as great or even greater than we saw on EAW.


Now, I'm not willing to go Cleaven's route and swear off EAW in favor of OP.  I'm here to play the game where it's fun.  I'll try and get more people to go over to OP not by just taking myself and leaving it at that.  I'll be around the EAW crowd throwing in my two cents regarding the merits of OP.  In the final analysis, I want to play SFC2 dyna and I'll go where the game is.  I think OP, if given the chance, will be the better game going forward.

I agree with Cleaven when he says, basically, we're never going to know about OP and/or it's never going to get any better if we don't all do out best to give it a try.



 

[KBF-Dogmatix]

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ED's Planet Assault script is your friend.. (neutral planets work best)
.. it gives you a nice juicy O-CA with 6 droneracks, 16? marines and 4 spareparts..


Tactics:

<snip>

Conclusion:
It doesn't matter if you're in a crappy ship. You're given a O-CA to help you bombard the planet. You just have to resist the temptation to use it against the enemy ships (and tell it not to attack). At the end of the mission, if all went well, you'll have stocked up on many spare parts, and marines too! ..


.. that, and you just brought the DV of a planet down a notch.



-- Luc  

ahahaha!  Oh, but it does matter, mon frer.    That only occurs when you fly Lyran or get Lyran AI as wingmen.  In my experience in the EAW missions, if you fly Klingon and get that Lyran/Orion help, you stand a good change of CTDing at some point in the mission.  I was never able to pinpoint the exact point or cause of the CTD, but it seemed like it happened if I got too close to the planet being attacked.  Three times I was withing range 4, CTD.  Two times, I stopped at about 5.99 and was able to complete the mission in both cases.


Trust me when I tell you that in two years, I can count on one hand the number of times I failed to take a planet I assaulted.  No problems there..heheheh.     The only mission I avoud these days is "Courier Intercept" because for some reason I just hate it.  Unless you're in a ship with beau coup punch, it's very difficult to win, though I have won it just about every time I have run it.  It's just that I ran so many on the Day of the Eagle campaign that I'm just sick of it..heheh.  They were mandatory on that server and often all you would get in enemy space.  Oof...



 

[FireSoul]

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ahahaha!  Oh, but it does matter, mon frer.    That only occurs when you fly Lyran or get Lyran AI as wingmen.  In my experience in the EAW missions, if you fly Klingon and get that Lyran/Orion help, you stand a good change of CTDing at some point in the mission.  I was never able to pinpoint the exact point or cause of the CTD, but it seemed like it happened if I got too close to the planet being attacked.  Three times I was withing range 4, CTD.  Two times, I stopped at about 5.99 and was able to complete the mission in both cases.

Very weird. I've never seen that happen to me..
.. oh well.. There's still the parts on the planet if you can kill it quickly enough.

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Trust me when I tell you that in two years, I can count on one hand the number of times I failed to take a planet I assaulted.  No problems there..heheheh.     The only mission I avoud these days is "Courier Intercept" because for some reason I just hate it.  Unless you're in a ship with beau coup punch, it's very difficult to win, though I have won it just about every time I have run it.  It's just that I ran so many on the Day of the Eagle campaign that I'm just sick of it..heheh.  They were mandatory on that server and often all you would get in enemy space.  Oof...

I have seen it too often too.. and yes, it does drive me a bit nuts to always do that, data recovery, or that damned freighter mission.
As for the perpetual "planet assault" on a neutral hex planet..  .. is there a way to get some variance there too?


-- Luc

[KBF-Dogmatix]

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I think you have hit on one of the big issues here with the map and cartels. With the ever shrinking player base, it may prove too tough to play OP races and cartels with any decent numbers.

Supply costs can be a big issue for drone races. I don't know what they are for the Reclamation server, but if they are prohibitive, expect fewer to play.

I like both EAW and OP (I have all four SFC titles). When we run 10-15 servers and you have about 50 people to chose from, it makes for a poor showing for most servers. Since players tend to gravitate to one or two, this leaves others empty. This can be both good and bad. It does force the admins to put up an interesting, fun, and different server. Otherwise, it's a ghost town on their game.

As for which game is better, that is a matter of personal opinion.

Well, in my humble opinion the pirates part of OP was a complete bomb.  It screwed up the game and flying pirate by and large sucks.  Take it from me...I earned 200K as a Syndicate captain on Rook's Tavern 3.  It sounds to me like that have figured out a way to basically remove them from the game in terms of cartel map interaction and that can only help because that was a major factor in the extent to which the OP dyna was 'broken."

There's been some bad blood about OP due to the way it was packaged and released that has hobbled the game, fairly or unfairly.  One thing that's for sure is that's unfortunate because it's a good game with the portential to be better than EAW if people would just play it.


As near as I can tell, drone prices aren't a problem on Reclamation.  It's the price of everything else, most notably marines and spare parts.  The difficulty level of the missions (in terms of the sheer damage you take from mission to mission) makes it very difficult to accumulate the prestige needed to get out of your starter ship (stock D5 for Klingons and it's about to click over to 2276).  I have finally gotten over the hump, though there hasn't been anything good in the two ships hitting the Klingon shipyards in the time I've been able to afford a better war destroyer variant.  I saw a D5L once...but at that time I had 6 PP and the price tag was 4,400.  


I own all four SFC titles too and I've been around these fora since SFC1 was in beta, so I definitely know where you're coming from, man.


 

[Fluf]

Orinally LB3 was going to be an OP server.  I personally think OP is a better game overall than EAW because of more options with ships, weapons and races.  The only drawback to OP has been the D2.  Once I saw SFCX was putting up Reclamation, I decided to hold off, mainly because these guys have more experience with OP and its settings.  However, I had many calls from players, saying they wanted a EAW campaign up for a fill in since SG3 was being delayed slightly for about 2 weeks.  So I threw LB3 together in 3 days just to give the players a place to play that didnt have OP.  I am very sorry if LB3 has taken away from Reclamation in players.  I really think OP should get some real testing now that some of the D2 bugs have been worked out.  

Oh and Moggy, you arent going anywhere!  This game just wouldnt be the same without ya.!

There is no difference between EAW and OP!  Its all the same people.  We have to work together here so that all can enjoy these games, whether it be EAW, OP or SFC3.  Lets pull together here folks.  

[KBF-Dogmatix]

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Firesoul, the O-CA was an addition given to Lyrans only for planet assaults, because of the long time it takes them to accomplish these missions.

Cleaven, thank you for your support, but I don't think that the dozen or so people who are interested in OP will be able to stress test the software enough to satisfy the high demands of the anti-OP brigade.

Scippy, I've tried to find this EAW-bashing of which you speak. I have been unable to. Unless, you mean that people saying that OP has the potential to be a better platform than EAW, is EAW bashing. Then, I plead guilty as charged. As for producing a killer campaign, please read my previous post. If a Galactic Powers v Andromedans campaign idea doesn't grab your imagination, then I honestly don't know what would.

Anyhow, the whole EAW/OP divide leaves me feeling extremely disenchanted with the game in general, so I may just quietly slip away, like so many of my friends who I've met over the years have done.  

Bah...get outta town, Moggy!  You're talkin' crazy, mah brutha.  There's no real "divide" betwen the two.  If there is, it's among a few people and not representative of the whole community.  I've seen OP servers loaded with players...players who play EAW.


Perhaps the "divide," if there is one, is between those who own the game and those who do not.  Some don't own it because they wanted tu punish the publisher or author because of the way OP was implemented/released.  I say we try and do soemthing to increase OP ownership.  Heh...as I said, I'd be willing to do my part to help subsidise the growth of the OP player base...heheh.  Maybe next time I'm out, I'll pick up any copies of OP I can find and offer them freely to anyone who wants to play OP but doesn't own the game or can't find it anywhere.

[jimmi7769]

Right there with you Dog, Like I said earlier I saw 3 copies on the bargain shelf at EB here if anyone is looking for a copy let me know.

[IndyShark]

Mogg, don't go! We'd miss you! I understand all of this arguement about EAW versus OP is just a Romulan plot anyway.

When they fix D2, OP will RULE! (ok, IF they fix it...)

Nomad, can we use the latest mission pack from EvilDave? I'd love to try the latest version on Reclamation. I understand he has rewritten the way you win pp and I'd like to see how that works.

[Mog]

Doggy, I'm a pessimistic moody barsteward when I haven't smoked a spliff. I vowed I'd try not to post in "controversial" threads when not stoned - I broke the vow and you see the result.

I just got irritated by the old EAW/OP arguments resurfacing again, after the latest OP patch had me excited about OP coming back. And you know, try as I might, I just cannot bring myself to leave SFC2 and all the friends I have here.  My most recently decided ambition is to be able to take 6 months off work, and inflict my weird English sense of humour on those friends in person. I doubt I'll ever be able to afford to do that, but I can live in hope.

Anyhow, I agree - OP has more potential than EAW (sorry Scippy but it's true) and it would make sense for everyone to move there. Taldren do seem to have an interest in improving the product still - the splitting and fixing of the TRB is proof of that. A weapon not even documented as being in the game gets fixed and tweaked to be more like SFB - I've "bashed" Taldren when I've felt they deserved it, but I am just as quick to praise them when they do something unexpectedly good This is one instance of that.

Doggy, you are a saint - again, if I could afford to, I'd do the same - send out copies of OP to whomever wanted/needed it.

I've talked with Nomad, and I believe he's going to lower the supplies prices to levels more in line with the mission payouts. I hope that this eliminates that reason for not coming and trying it out. All Reclamation needs is some more players on it - to stress test the dyna and (just as importantly) make that neutral space different bloody clolurs so co-op is then useful strategically.

Oh, and Karnak, this thread has been anything other than a flamefest. It's been very useful imo. I suggest you examine your own behaviour, past and present, before you cast yet another stone at people. It's not the first time you've jumped on someone for a petty thing.

[FireSoul]

Thing is..
.. I'd like to admit that I've been .. well.. unsupportive when it came to EAW. I still see it as a threat to OP-based play.
.. that started some weeks ago when another player went online to GSA to tell the people under the EAW GSA side of things that a new OP patch came out.
   .. the response was "OP? Bah! That's a DEAD game. Who cares!"

Since then, I've been completely 100% OP-only.  When asked about a EAW version of my shiplist, I kept telling people 'No. if I do that, people would stop playing OP and stick to EAW even more. I have to choose to be a bigot and not to help out."


.. And that has been my opinion.. that is until today. I didn't realize there were EAW players supporting OP at the same time. .. thanks guys, it makes me feel better.. some days I wonder if I spent too much time working on something that no one will use.


-- Luc
 

[Karnak]

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What I see as a bigger danger to the community as a whole is all the snippy statements going around from admins in the last few weeks.  You want to drive programmers away from SFC development or potential programmers from mission scripting then let's just keep it up.  Same goes for people with campaign ideas that would love to admin a campaign. When they see the admins acting like this who in their right mind would consider the techies reliable enough to get  the job done.



Statements like "STFU" from admins only get people irritated and consider you a person to be ignored.  

You know,  I could go on and on about my commitments and time spent helping better this game and community, but I don't have the ego to go on and on about it like someone here.

What have you done so far ?  How long have you had friendships with people from this board?

If you knew some of these people half as well as I do, you'd know that sometimes Dizzy needs to be talked to in a manner that HE understands to make it stick.
 

You'll have to enlightend me on what exactly you've done for D2 in the last 6 months cuz I don't get impressed easily. So far, I've seen the following:

1)  Dizzy putting in mucho hours on SG3 certainly more hours than you have put in.
2)  Been given irresponsible assurances about web-casters and then dumped.

As for me, I'm trying to clean up the mess the SFC2.net admins are leaving behind, and getting quite tired off it, to be frank.  First, by getting SG3 going. Second, check out this thread and especially read KBF-Crim's comments:

http://www.bozobits.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=2045&start=0

As for saying a person needs to be yelled and cussed at to get the point across.  That's abusive behavior and you know it.  No one, and I mean no one deserves to be treated like that.  I assume you are an educated person you must have a more sophisticated vocabulary to draw on.

Do that one too many times in the workplace and you are fired. Go ahead and try it if you don't believe me.

You know I really don't feel good about doing all this SG3 cleanup for the SFC2.net admins.  Why don't you fire up your own Visual C++ compiler and cleanup your SFC2.net admin mess instead of relying on outsiders to do it.  If you can't then   I think it would be best it such people as yourself stay away from SG3. Because, if you do I will very much be tempted to ban your ass off the server. Why? Because, that's the way one has deal with people like you to get the message to stick.


 

[DH123]

One of the things that makes OP wnderful is the moddabilty.   The X-weapons, extra race slots, arpanded firing arcs, and all that make this game have much more potential for the future.  In OP, we literaly could do and all eras mod starting the time of Enterprise and ending with the dominion war.

I'm really glad D2 in OP now aparantly works.  The SFCX guys should adopt the SFC2.net ship and supplies prices if they want to improve their player base.  

Bring on the Andros!!!  

[jdmckinney]

By the way, I won't be making any changes to Reclamation settings until Friday night at the earliest. It's not because I don't want to; it's because I'm stuck in blasted northern Ohio on business. If I'd been home yesterday, I'd have changed the supply costs then.

Castrin will have to do it, so if anyone has a concrete per-item value they'd recommend for each supply type, please post it here ASAP. Maybe he can be talked into finding time to change the settings and burp the server to implement them tonight.

[wanderer]

 

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  It starting to get to the point where I think I should start asking for Forum moderator intervention for the good of D2.

Dude, you SO need to get over yourself. I mean, seriously, you're gonna go TELL?

It's cool that you feel you're backing Dizzy, loyalty is cool, but remember, this is Dizzy we're talking about. DIZZY! Lovable, irrepressable, bigmouthed, gets under your skin, STFU Dizzy. Hello?

Oh, and btw, this is a thread about Reclamation, not your impressive resume of work. Sheesh.

Wanderer the buttinski