Topic: Reclamation: 2275 is here.  (Read 10008 times)

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FireSoul

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Reclamation: 2275 is here.
« on: April 21, 2003, 06:37:36 am »
Well..
.. 2275 arrived overnight..  .. and now I see the effects of the OP+ 2.0 ..
... "it was the year that everything changed." ... and yeeeowch!


-  A drone-equipped ships (of main races) recieve a reload refit. This isn't important for player-controlled ships.. but AI enemies are now better equipped.
-  Some gorn ships get their PLaF "F" refit.
-  Many Klingons also start getting their K refits now.
-  All A-rack equipped ships (of main races) are refitted to either B or C racks.
-  Some Romulan ships recieve their + refits.. from PLaG to PLaS..


Come and join us to find out what I'm talking about.

-- Luc
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 06:00:00 pm by FireSoul »

jimmi7769

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Re: Reclamation: 2275 is here.
« Reply #1 on: April 21, 2003, 08:41:53 am »
It's hard to get anywhere when your shipyard only has 2 ships in it and you'r stuck in an F5.  

jdmckinney

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Re: Reclamation: 2275 is here.
« Reply #2 on: April 21, 2003, 09:10:00 am »
Mace, you may have missed the new starter ship post. The starters are now CL/CW ships (D5 for Klingons). If you're having trouble with the F5C starter from before, and don't have the cash to get out of it, feel free to start a new account.

As for the small selection in the yards, it is working exactly as I had hoped. The better your economy, the better chance you will see more ships and larger ones. The Lyrans started out on the low end of the economy scale, but are now getting the occasional DN or BC in their yard, as well as CWs on a regular basis.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 06:00:00 pm by jdmckinney »

jimmi7769

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Re: Reclamation: 2275 is here.
« Reply #3 on: April 21, 2003, 01:28:40 pm »
I guess maybe I'll just wait until you make the starter ships BCh's   ;-)

jdmckinney

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Re: Reclamation: 2275 is here.
« Reply #4 on: April 21, 2003, 04:26:31 pm »
LOL, don't count on it!

Also, there's no guarantee I'll leave the higher starting ships in for the remainder of the campaign, so you might want to reserve one soon.

KBF-Dogmatix

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Re: Reclamation: 2275 is here.
« Reply #5 on: April 22, 2003, 12:03:20 am »
Been checking "Reclamation" out a bit...love the shiplist (what I can see of it), but starting out in a stock D5 in 2275 and paying 13 points or so for marines and 18 points or so for spare parts really isn't my bag.  I haven't been  too keen on that sort of price structure in the past and it still doesn't appeal to me when it comes to my limited playing time.  I like the challenge and all..it's just too tough a row to hoe with not much relief in sight when you can't really play that much.  On top of that..there's only three ships in the shipyard at any give time, so even if you DO earn the jack, theres...well, jack to buy...heheh.


i'll keep stopping in now and then...because it is an interesting challenge.  One of my missions tonight was a base defense.  Me and some Mirak DWE vs. four Gorn boats and the BATS.  Barely eked a win out there. but didn't earn enough to buy back half of what I spent in consummables.



 

Cleaven

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Re: Reclamation: 2275 is here.
« Reply #6 on: April 22, 2003, 01:36:01 am »
It's the Gorn AI that does it to you. Not that it's any smarter than other AI, it's just that it doesn't take much to be a suicidal plasma user. At least you can fool the non-plasma races into making targets of themselves. Otherwise you go against Gorn or ISC, wear a few plasma hits, and spend half of what you earn on repairs and replacement marines. And if you get a tough match (your allies are 3 Kzin commando ships) then you have to pay more than you earn.

Co-opping with somebody else really turns the tide in your favour though, except for that damn neutral hex co-op bug.

Of course there are those sweet moments when the enemy is 3 Gorn commando ships.  

FireSoul

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Re: Reclamation: 2275 is here.
« Reply #7 on: April 22, 2003, 02:23:00 am »
I seem to be doing fine on that server.. and I'm a lyran. I have to get in real close every time.

The ISC? Difficult but doable.
Reffitted Gorns? A challenge.. .. takes a plasma hit or 2 but doable..

Cleaven

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Re: Reclamation: 2275 is here.
« Reply #8 on: April 22, 2003, 04:49:49 am »
Must just be me then. I'm completely useless unless I have a DN to drive. Maybe if I get a ship bigger than a destroyer I'll stop losing all those courier intercepts. For every fleet action I get (and usually win), I've lost about 3 courier intecepts (-50 + repairs + spares) and taken a huge beating killing all the ships in a couple of data recovery missions.    

FireSoul

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Re: Reclamation: 2275 is here.
« Reply #9 on: April 22, 2003, 04:58:40 am »
those same 2 missions are the hardest. I believe NW should tweak down the difficulty in both.
-- Luc

EmeraldEdge

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Re: Reclamation: 2275 is here.
« Reply #10 on: April 22, 2003, 05:32:50 am »
In data recovery don't kill the ships, get the data and run (Yellow alert, max speed, etc.).  300pp. that should help gettin' some extra pp.  

FireSoul

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Re: Reclamation: 2275 is here.
« Reply #11 on: April 22, 2003, 06:49:30 am »
that will change in future versions..

jdmckinney

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Re: Reclamation: 2275 is here.
« Reply #12 on: April 22, 2003, 07:28:35 am »
The best AI battle I've had on the server happened last night. I only went on long enough to play 3 missions, and the first was the best. I went up to the ring of nebula hexes surrounding the main VC hex and ran a Patrol (the freighter/escort variant) in the nebula as Lyran in a DCWLP. I had to race to catch the G-FQS and kill it in two phaser passes at the sector border. Then I had to dance with the G-CM for half an hour, using mostly just my 6 Ph1 and 4 PhG, speed, and luck. I used all my probes about 2/3 of the way through, and was really badly beaten up by the end. I used all 25 spare parts I had (those PhG and engines tend to get blown to hell on almost every internal scored) and came out of the mission with about 1/3 of my hull intact. Though my repair bill was about equal to the 270 pts. I earned (actually a little higher), I spent a few hundred more in resupply. My official time was 33:47, and it was actually worth it. Disruptors weren't hitting for squat in the nebula, so I was essentially flying a phaser boat. It was a nice challenge.

Yes, I took a major loss on that mission, but I enjoyed it. Next mission out, I ran a Planet Defense against the Gorn and won without much effort and no damage taken. It just so happened I also hit the Commodore promotion mark and gained 5K from the bonus. After one last mission (Big Game -- though the enemy was only an I-CAY and I had 2 small helpers), I had a total of 12K banked out of my 20K earned.

While I sympathize with the complaints about supply costs, I think they are not really that high. Granted, people without much playing time are going to feel the hit worse than others, but with some of the uber-commando tugs in the list and the ever-present droner advantage the D2 has built in, we have to keep those consumables from being too cheap. Next time around we'll try to balance the costs a bit better.

One other thing we'll have to be careful of is making sure the AI matchings aren't always just one or two races, so players have a choice of what kind of enemy they face. That's a mapmaking task, so I can't do anything about it this time around.

EmeraldEdge

  • Guest
Re: Reclamation: 2275 is here.
« Reply #13 on: April 22, 2003, 07:32:48 am »
Quote:

that will change in future versions..  




I thought the plan was to try and get it so that you get PP if you get out with the data, since that was the main mission, but only get the DV shift if you kill the other ships?

Still, you can get PP by running with the data in the current version, so it's a way to get enough PP to get into something better if you've lost a ship or two.  

jimmi7769

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Re: Reclamation: 2275 is here.
« Reply #14 on: April 22, 2003, 08:27:56 am »
Quote:

I seem to be doing fine on that server.. and I'm a lyran. I have to get in real close every time.

The ISC? Difficult but doable.
Reffitted Gorns? A challenge.. .. takes a plasma hit or 2 but doable..  




Well, pat yourself on the back then.

Just remember that a server needs to be set up so even us crappy players can have a good time or you'll be the only one playing.

Cleaven

  • Guest
Re: Reclamation: 2275 is here.
« Reply #15 on: April 22, 2003, 09:54:01 am »
Quote:

those same 2 missions are the hardest. I believe NW should tweak down the difficulty in both.
-- Luc  




I don't see any reason for NW to bring the difficulty down on them if you are able to do them without any trouble, especially as a Lyran. Otherwise it will just become boring for me when I learn how to use something more complicated than a suicide shuttle.  

NuclearWessels

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Re: Reclamation: 2275 is here.
« Reply #16 on: April 22, 2003, 10:11:41 am »
Well, now that you mention it

just finished recompiling the latest version of the mission pack
OP Mission Pack: http://www.sfcx.org/downloads/mirrors/NuclearWessels/OPMissions.zip
EAW Mission Pack: http://www.sfcx.org/downloads/mirrors/NuclearWessels//EAWMissions.zip

These aren't in use on any servers as of yet, so don't load them until you're done playing on LB3 or Reclamation.

A variety of minor tweaks, a revamped Data Recovery mission, and a couple of bug fixes.  I've tried to include everything that's been brought up so far in LB3 and Reclamation.

The 7Patrol is still broken, but not as badly as in the previous pack - the DV usually doesn't change, as opposed to changing in the wrong direction.  (I'd recommed not including 7Patrol in campaigns at the moment, I just included the script in this pack so any broken copies lying around will at least get overwritten with a less-broken one.)

dave
   

KBF-Dogmatix

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Re: Reclamation: 2275 is here.
« Reply #17 on: April 22, 2003, 10:53:46 am »
That's great, FireSoul and Nomad.  Don't get me wrong.  I can hang.  The question is...do I have the time or patience to net  next to nothing every mission and, then, at such time as I can actually afford a new ship, I have two or three to choose from in the shipyard?



Well...I guess my points are these (and Mace has mentioned one of them)...

1.  In a D5, one 3-marine H&R attack (a major Klingon tactic), it costs me 39 PP..right out the window...and that's with only the possibility of doing damage to the targeted system(s).  Heaven forbid you try and capture something, too..or do another H&R attack.  39 pp goes to 78 or 117 rather quickly.  You've used 9 marines.  One mine or t-bomb to get some precious internals or shake a tail...8 pp.  Figure in any given multi-ship mission you use 6-8 of your mines.  48-64 PP...all for the priviledge of using mines.  Spares?  Egads...at 18 pp, you better hope you can beem some off enemy ships (often causes you to take internals), because replacing them alone will eat up your entire pp award per mission.  If these measures are meant to somehow mitigate the "built in droner advantage," I'd say you're thowing the baby out with the bathwater.  Your perrogative of course.  Just not my cup o' tea.

2.  When I received my stock D5 in 2275, the supply costs were so high I couldn't even afford to fully outfit my ship.  Two problems here, as I see it.  D5K (at least) in 2275, eh?  You fight AI with refits up to that point and you're in a stock variants that was commissioned 7 game years ago and has seen the release of four or five later variants since then. This is just a minor but important quibble, not a deal-breaker by any means.  Not being about to fully outfit your ship even once to start sort of sucked.  

3.  This is the point Mace touched on.  The times I've logged in, I've been the ONLY one on, or there is maybe 2-4 other people on.  Contrast this with 8 people on LitterBox 3 in the morning...and 15-25 people during prime time.  I'm not sure exactl;y what accounts for these discrepancies.  I'm sure there are a number of factors.  It's not the mission pack..because virtually the same missions are being used on both.  The draw of FireSouls's shiplist doesn't seem to be enough.  I know a lot of people who dig that list...and I'm one of them.  Yet, I'd prefer LB3 (totally stock shiplist and in early era) because you can actually make some reasonable headway due to supply costs.

You may think the supply costs are perfectly fine, but I'm guessing most people do not.  Only the die hard, very skilled few are going to like, let alone cope with those settings.  The rest will probably go somewhere else.  For me, it's not a matter of being able to hang.  I can do that.  I was never in danger of losing any of my missions, difficult as they were.  It's the return on my playing time.  If I only have maybe 10 hours a week to play, I'm going to go where fighting hard for 2 or 3 hours gets me into a decent, surivable ship..,maybe even one of of favorites.  Playing 10 hours on Reclamation might get me into that same variants (if it's one of the three ships in the shipyard), but it will have been like pulling teeth to get to that war destroyer...heheh.  It seems to me that while governing the "built in droner advantage" (which I don't really agree with, but I won't get into that), you're exascerbating the problem of nutters vs. the casual players.  

Put simply, I had a stock D5 on LB3 and a stock D5 on Reclamation.  I flew the stock D5 on LB3 more because it was more "fun."

Now, i'm merely stating my feelings on the matter to give some constructive feedback.  I suspect my opinions probably don't carry much weight and I do appreciate the efforts in bringing us what looks to be a great idea for an OP campaign.  I know it isn't easy to do that and I also know you will not please everyone all the time.



I hope this helps, if not, I apologize in advance for any ruffled feathers or fur or whatever...heheh.



 
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 06:00:00 pm by KBF-Dogmatix »

jimmi7769

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Re: Reclamation: 2275 is here.
« Reply #18 on: April 22, 2003, 11:13:30 am »
Dog, you're such the orater.....Yeah, what he said.....I was going to say the same thing, I just didn't have to half hour to type it in(hunt and pecker that I am)

A couple of other things on the marine problem.  It was piosted earlier that the increase in cost was to offset the commando ships.  I'd say change their frequency to very rare or even not player controlable rather than blow away the entire H&R/Capture mechanism.

Somewhere else I was told that the increase in the number of marines on the AI was because a ship would not leave spacedock without it's full complement of marines aboard.  On this one I'd have to point out that as the ship is delivered from the spacedock that IS the standard complement of marines.  If you look at the master ship chart or an SSD you'll see that the standard marine complement is much lower than we can outfit a ship with in stardock.  In SFB these were called commanders option items.  No ship came standard with the extra marines/T-Bombs and such could be purchased if the captain so desired.  Now while we could say that all of the AI is going to be smart enough to outfit their ships with the most stuff as well as we do but then again nobody ever said the AI was smart and would a captain of a police cruiser really have the pull to get all of those extra marines to sit around and collect dust on boring tariff enforcement mission when they should be out there storming Vulcan???  Not this marine buddy!!!

Well you get my point.  Wow it only took me about 15 minutes to get that typed up  ;-)
 

IndyShark

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Re: Reclamation: 2275 is here.
« Reply #19 on: April 22, 2003, 12:39:15 pm »
I have to agree that the supplies cost too much. In many missions I lose pp after resupplying and repairing. I know I can take data recovery missions, but I like FIGHTS not running.

Make the drones as expensive as you like, but please reduce repair parts, mines and marines!