Topic: A history and analysis of Romulan ships

[ChamadaIV]

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Why is their always some Trekkies out their that try to judge how powerful a ship is based on what they saw on the show?   The only show in Star Trek that came close to determining how powerful ships are from one another is probably DS9, but I know how many Star Trek fans don't like that show etheir.  That is why I've always been a SFB fan, the game was based on its own universe and not some theories of writers and fans.  

There needs to be some kind of official nod to a publicized version of the "facts." If the Star Trek Encyclopedia or some other more reliable source were sanctioned by Paramount Pictures as canon material, then these endless debates would be pointless (aka "the D'Deridex is clearly the superior ship than the Galaxy class and here's why..." or "no, your argument is incorrect as you have no canon sources to back up your argument..." blah, blah). It's just like the other thread where Tremok and myself had it off about why a Klingon D5 warship couldn't defeat the NX-01 in the first few shots.

Somebody at Paramount needs to set the record straight once and for all with an official publication from the very people who create the ships and the writers who create the fictional technology. It would be a good way to cap off all the DVD re-releases of the shows and movies.

We can start with an intro; "In the mid 1960s, Gene Roddenberry devised a new concept set in the science fiction genre..." From there, Paramount can address all the canon inconsistency issues from TOS to ENT. Give us total starship specs and comparisons, including an explanation of all the technology involved and so forth. Whatever they want, as long as the preface or somepart of the book(s) states that it is official canon material by Paramount, and not simply licensed material. When we have that, then the masses shall be appeased. But until then...

There is no way a Valdore could equal or better the firepower of a Sovereign class ship. Does the Quantum Torpedo mean anything to you guys? The Roms plasma torpedo, no matter how powerful, could never stand up to the rapid fire capability and reliablity of the quants, imho. But then again, we know so little of the Valdores to draw a proper conclusion other than the fact that the Scimitar destroyed one and easily disabled another. This coming from only one movie and just a few minutes of footage.

 

So there,  

CIV  

[Tremok]

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Why is their always some Trekkies out their that try to judge how powerful a ship is based on what they saw on the show?   The only show in Star Trek that came close to determining how powerful ships are from one another is probably DS9, but I know how many Star Trek fans don't like that show etheir.  That is why I've always been a SFB fan, the game was based on its own universe and not some theories of writers and fans.  

There needs to be some kind of official nod to a publicized version of the "facts." If the Star Trek Encyclopedia or some other more reliable source were sanctioned by Paramount Pictures as canon material, then these endless debates would be pointless (aka "the D'Deridex is clearly the superior ship than the Galaxy class and here's why..." or "no, your argument is incorrect as you have no canon sources to back up your argument..." blah, blah). It's just like the other thread where Tremok and myself had it off about why a Klingon D5 warship couldn't defeat the NX-01 in the first few shots.

 Well, they don't. And I enjoy these discussions.  

Somebody at Paramount needs to set the record straight once and for all with an official publication from the very people who create the ships and the writers who create the fictional technology. It would be a good way to cap off all the DVD re-releases of the shows and movies.

 You say so.  

We can start with an intro; "In the mid 1960s, Gene Roddenberry devised a new concept set in the science fiction genre..." From there, Paramount can address all the canon inconsistency issues from TOS to ENT. Give us total starship specs and comparisons, including an explanation of all the technology involved and so forth. Whatever they want, as long as the preface or somepart of the book(s) states that it is official canon material by Paramount, and not simply licensed material. When we have that, then the masses shall be appeased. But until then...

  I think the closes your gonna get is the unofficial word from the ship creators on the Alt.startrek.net message boards.  I had a few discussions with Rick Sternbach on Star Trek ships a ways back. Good guy.  

There is no way a Valdore could equal or better the firepower of a Sovereign class ship.

 Says who?  

Does the Quantum Torpedo mean anything to you guys? The Roms plasma torpedo, no matter how powerful, could never stand up to the rapid fire capability and reliablity of the quants, imho.

 Rapid fire capability? Reliablity? Bit of an arrogant assumption to make, considering we nothing absolutely nothing of Romulan torpedoes.  

But then again, we know so little of the Valdores to draw a proper conclusion

 Guess we better not make any claims that one ship is superior over the other because one torpedo one ship has is better than another ships torpedo that we know absolutely nothing about then huh?  

other than the fact that the Scimitar destroyed one and easily disabled another. This coming from only one movie and just a few minutes of footage.

 Bah, the Scimitar cleaned house against all the ships.  
 

[ChamadaIV]

I see you rather enjoy dissecting other people's words as they are written with line-by-line analysis summed up in just a few words/phrases/sentences. Annoying, but understandable (expects this line to be commented on as well).

If you thought that last part about the torpedoes and the Valdore vs Sovereign was a serious argument, then you are woefully mistaken. I was merely proving a point by what I said earlier just to show others how pointless and silly these Trek discussions are (I get caught in the trap myself time and time again, and I expect I will yet again in the future). They are fun and sometimes insightful, but ultimately pointless and usually changes nothing in the end. By taking what I said in that last paragraph seriously, you proved my point even moreso. So I thank you.  

Heh, for tradition's sake, I still think the D5 should've blasted the NX-01 away faster than you could blink (tell me that in nanoseconds and it should have been that fast).  

 

CIV    

[Alidar Jarok]

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(expects this line to be commented on as well)

What makes you say that?

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Heh, for tradition's sake, I still think the D5 should've blasted the NX-01 away faster than you could blink

Kill that ¢r@ppy Hu-Man Ship

Edit:  Cr@ppy turns into a link? (automatically gets [ email ] [ /email ] tags)

[ChamadaIV]

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Quote:
(expects this line to be commented on as well)

What makes you say that?

You'll have to excuse me, but as it turns out, Tremok's not the first one I've criticized for doing line-by-line commenting. It happens all the time, I've done it myself before. It's a good way to respond to a person's posts. It just annoys me sometimes, that's all. As my ex-girl used to say "Just deal with it." Well, I am.

Quote:
Heh, for tradition's sake, I still think the D5 should've blasted the NX-01 away faster than you could blink

Quote:
Kill that ¢r@ppy Hu-Man Ship

Edit:  Cr@ppy turns into a link? (automatically gets [ email ] [ /email ] tags)

No kidding. Sounds
Post Preview: Whoa. Now there's an anomoly worth noting. Somebody should ask Dave Farrell what's up with that. Not that its a problem or anything.    

EDIT: Hey wait. It's nothing, just the @ symbol tricking the forum engine into thinking its an email address, ie <a href="mailto:username@domain.com">Cr@ppy">Cr@ppy</a> to me.

Post Preview: Whoa. Now there's an anomoly worth noting. Somebody should ask Dave Farrell what's up with that. Not that its a problem or anything.    

EDIT: Hey wait. It's nothing, just the @ symbol tricking the forum engine into thinking its an email address, ie <a href="mailto:username@domain.com

[ChamadaIV]

Sweet jesus...the BB Code in that last post went nuts. Oh well, you can decipher it for yourself. LOL

[Tremok]

I see you rather enjoy dissecting other people's words as they are written with line-by-line analysis summed up in just a few words/phrases/sentences.

 Absolutely.  

Annoying, but understandable (expects this line to be commented on as well).

 Don't worry, I won't waste my time.  

If you thought that last part about the torpedoes and the Valdore vs Sovereign was a serious argument, then you are woefully mistaken. I was merely proving a point by what I said earlier just to show others how pointless and silly these Trek discussions are (I get caught in the trap myself time and time again, and I expect I will yet again in the future).

 Call it whatever you want, sir. I find it throughly enjoyable.  

They are fun and sometimes insightful, but ultimately pointless and usually changes nothing in the end. By taking what I said in that last paragraph seriously, you proved my point even moreso. So I thank you.  

 Your welcome. I think. As for why I took the statement in question seriously, pick,

1. I find the said statement to be as reasonable as some other arguments that you have made,
2. Its very hard to pick up sarcasm from text (you usually have to lay it on very thick)
3. Both

 


Heh, for tradition's sake, I still think the D5 should've blasted the NX-01 away faster than you could blink (tell me that in nanoseconds and it should have been that fast).  

 Life does indeed suck doesn't?

Truer words...    

[ChamadaIV]

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I see you rather enjoy dissecting other people's words as they are written with line-by-line analysis summed up in just a few words/phrases/sentences.

 Absolutely.  

How delightfully typical...my turn then.

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Annoying, but understandable (expects this line to be commented on as well).

 Don't worry, I won't waste my time.  

Maybe I should've said "I expect you won't even bother." OR "(Insert lame/arrogant comment here)"

Quote:
If you thought that last part about the torpedoes and the Valdore vs Sovereign was a serious argument, then you are woefully mistaken. I was merely proving a point by what I said earlier just to show others how pointless and silly these Trek discussions are (I get caught in the trap myself time and time again, and I expect I will yet again in the future).

 Call it whatever you want, sir. I find it throughly enjoyable.  

Well that is good. Ignorance is bliss I suppose. *sigh* I guess I'll join you then. I suppose I should tell you that your history on Rom ships isn't nearly as complete or historical as it should have been. As far as acuracy, it was good except ... your judgements about the BoP's capabilities (the one shown on ENT). They are derived from pure supposition and has yet to be determined by canon (because there is insufficient canon material on this BoP as of yet). To not let this be a one-sided ad hominem, my views on the D5's capabilities are also derived from prior Treknowledge and yes, supposition as well. Opinions we have, written facts we do not (as far as I can tell that is).

Quote:
They are fun and sometimes insightful, but ultimately pointless and usually changes nothing in the end. By taking what I said in that last paragraph seriously, you proved my point even moreso. So I thank you.  

 Your welcome. I think. As for why I took the statement in question seriously, pick,

1. I find the said statement to be as reasonable as some other arguments that you have made,
2. Its very hard to pick up sarcasm from text (you usually have to lay it on very thick)
3. Both

 

So that statement seemed valid to you when compared to what we have discussed before. Damn, too bad we couldn't chat in person. I'd say it so that you could catch the sarcasm. It is indeed wise to see the forest for the trees, but sometimes its necessary to see it for more than what it really is. You don't have to hear my words actually, but if you drew the clues from the context of my words, then you would understand.

Did you get that, or should I repeat it again?

Quote:
Heh, for tradition's sake, I still think the D5 should've blasted the NX-01 away faster than you could blink (tell me that in nanoseconds and it should have been that fast).  

 Life does indeed suck doesn't?

Truer words...    

No, its not Life that sucks per se, only the people that try to make it suck for those who don't want it that way.      

[Tremok]

Maybe I should've said "I expect you won't even bother." OR "(Insert lame/arrogant comment here)"

 Perhaps you should of. *shrug*  

Quote:
If you thought that last part about the torpedoes and the Valdore vs Sovereign was a serious argument, then you are woefully mistaken. I was merely proving a point by what I said earlier just to show others how pointless and silly these Trek discussions are (I get caught in the trap myself time and time again, and I expect I will yet again in the future).

 Call it whatever you want, sir. I find it throughly enjoyable.  

Well that is good. Ignorance is bliss I suppose. *sigh* I guess I'll join you then.

 I am corrupting you eh?  

I suppose I should tell you that your history on Rom ships isn't nearly as complete or historical as it should have been.

 Thanks for telling me. So, what should I have done different.  

As far as acuracy, it was good except ... your judgements about the BoP's capabilities (the one shown on ENT). They are derived from pure supposition and has yet to be determined by canon (because there is insufficient canon material on this BoP as of yet).

 I've made my case for the Early BoP. Seeing who you don't actually try to disprove me, but simply say I am wrong, I take it as matter that you simply don't agree. Fair enough.  

To not let this be a one-sided ad hominem, my views on the D5's capabilities are also derived from prior Treknowledge and yes, supposition as well. Opinions we have, written facts we do not (as far as I can tell that is).

 Yes, we both made our cases for the D5.  

Quote:
They are fun and sometimes insightful, but ultimately pointless and usually changes nothing in the end. By taking what I said in that last paragraph seriously, you proved my point even moreso. So I thank you.  

 

So that statement seemed valid to you when compared to what we have discussed before.

 Might just be me. *shrug*  

Damn, too bad we couldn't chat in person. I'd say it so that you could catch the sarcasm.
It is indeed wise to see the forest for the trees, but sometimes its necessary to see it for more than what it really is. You don't have to hear my words actually, but if you drew the clues from the context of my words, then you would understand.

 One person makes a statement on the web being serious, another makes an exact same statement but is being sarcastic.

I find it too much of a headache to try to discern when people are being sarcastic or not. I just everything seriously.  


 

[Alidar Jarok]

Maybe you should have realized that when you said

(expects this line to be commented on as well)

That it would be jokingly commented on

I asked why do you think that, knowing full well that I would be commenting on it.

[jimmi7769]

Hey look everybody!!!   It's the Tremok and Chamada IV Show!!!!

[ChamadaIV]

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Hey look everybody!!!   It's the Tremok and Chamada IV Show!!!!  

Yeah, it's almost like watching Bill Clinton and Bob Dole on 60 Minutes...  

Your input is noted Alidar.

As for what should've been done differently as far as the main topic of this thread, welll, nothing really needs to be done differently. More like adding to it. I see you pulled your ship pics from Ex Astria Scientia. An excellent site for all that is Trek. I only wish to know why you didn't further discuss things like the little known Rom scout ship or the Scorpion shuttle/fighter from Nemesis. If your source was indeed Bernd Schneider's site, then info on these ships were clearly there for you to touch upon. No big deal really. Just a thought.  

[La'ra]

Sorry Tremok.  I'm enjoying this exchange too much to interfere at the moment.  

[Tremok]

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As for what should've been done differently as far as the main topic of this thread, welll, nothing really needs to be done differently. More like adding to it. I see you pulled your ship pics from Ex Astria Scientia. An excellent site for all that is Trek. I only wish to know why you didn't further discuss things like the little known Rom scout ship or the Scorpion shuttle/fighter from Nemesis. If your source was indeed Bernd Schneider's site, then info on these ships were clearly there for you to touch upon. No big deal really. Just a thought.  

 I see. I always intended for this post to be a work in progress; that is, I will add more to it as time goes on.

In the next few days I will write up an analysis on the Enterprise/BoP TOS Battle, the combat history of the D'deridex (that we know of from the episodes, anyway), and my reports on the Science Ship, Scout Ship, Romulan Shuttle, and the Scorpion attackcraft.  I'll probably set down and do it this weekend.

RE: Ex Astria Scientia

It is a good site. I enjoy Bernds articles. He usually doesn't say much about the ships, but he does give you interesting tibits.

I use several of his pictures for two reasons:

1. They are decent pictures, and
2. They are nice and compact. I don't wish to huge pictures. (with the 30 timeout limit and all)    

[ChamadaIV]

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Sorry Tremok.  I'm enjoying this exchange too much to interfere at the moment.  

Everyone around here seems to get somewhat entertained when Tremok and myself have these exchanges...

maybe its time we ask Taldren for some kind of exclusive Trek debate forum or something...

nah, Dave would never go for that.    

[Tremok]

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Sorry Tremok.  I'm enjoying this exchange too much to interfere at the moment.  

  It seems that me and Mr. CIV have made nice (for now, anyway).

Anyway, this is somewhat off topic, but its my dern thread anyway.

I was surfing the web, and this is what I found.

 
 
 

What, does the Nova class have incredible growing abilities? One moment, its around 150 meters, next its more around 400 meters (the Negh'var is close to 700meters). Guess the FX people didn't want a ship 1/6th as small as the Negh'vars beating beating them up, so they made the Rhode Island just 1/2th as small.

Speaking of which, so much for the mighty Klingon Empire. Two Negh'vars getting chased off by a single Nova. Thats worse than *3 ~700 meter BoPs and a Galaxy scaring off 2 D'deridexes. How embarrassing

Of course, it simply could by they shrunk the Negh'vars (they would be I believe smaller than the Vor'chas if they did that).

*Remember now, back in that day 2 much smaller BoPs easily beat the Enterprise-D once. (forgot the episode, I'll look it up later).

Update: The episode was called Rascals, and the two BoPs where crewed by mighty, combat harden  Ferengi.  

[SuperDadOf5]

very well thought out.  

[Tremok]

 What was very well thought out?