Topic: Maybe Trek IS dying...? (Read 15350 times)

Alidar Jarok · « **Reply #20 on:** April 17, 2003, 06:29:45 pm »

lol J'inn

That would be, um, interesting

Why not?

Sounds like a good idea

Just one problem.

What happens when the Enterpise is in an Asteroid field?

Scipio_66 · « **Reply #21 on:** April 17, 2003, 08:33:22 pm »

Enterprise has everything it needs to be a success........ except writers. The writing is bland, boring, and far too PC.

Paramount went with Enterprise (they said) so that they could tell a different style of Star Trek story with a frontier attitude. But the characters on Enterprise don't have a frontier attitude; they've got the same sterile attitude we've seen in Voyager and Next Gen. Where are the attitudes that drove these people to explore because they find civilization repressive? Why is Archer so PC? Why is the crew so refined in their dealings with aliens?

I'm not sure how writing works on Voyager and Enterprise, but I get the impression of a standing committee. I see a group of yuppies working with cookie-cutter storyboards, and passing their formulaic stories though a heavy coporate filter. We're not getting new stories and attitudes; we are getting the same old formula with different props. I could be wrong as I don't hav the facts, but this is the impression I get. It's like watching a fliming of a book that is itself a TV-adaption. This is a far cry from TOS, which bought scripts from the likes of:

Harlan Ellison
Theodore Sturgeon
David Gerrold
Dorothy Fontana
Gene Coon

I'll note the last few episodes of Enterprise have shown a bit of improvement. (At lest with the energy creatures they did flat-out destroy an attacking ship, instead of giving it a chance to surrender or limp off with a nasty toungue lashing.) Hopefully this trend will continue, and the crew of NX-01 will continue to act more like a rough-edged group of individuals pusing back the frontier. The new show is superior to Voyager enough that I continue to watch it with hope.

-S'Cipio

nx_adam_1701 · « **Reply #22 on:** April 17, 2003, 08:57:01 pm »

I say show more variety, honestly, I have seen all the TNG already, everytime I turn to TNN its like I saw that already, the only ones I stay and watch are the hit episodes like the Borg and etc..., If they would air DS9 which was a real hit because the show surrounded war then maybe rating will go up, also its what they show, they tend to repeat alot of the episodes but hey, I hope Star Trek won't die out but then again it might, last thing is they should do like what happen with DS9 and TNG, they should make another series as ENT is going on

Adam Out

Captain KoraH · « **Reply #23 on:** April 18, 2003, 02:40:12 am »

Sadly, Enterprise wasn't even aired here in Phoenix, the U.S.'s 7th largest city. It was pre-empted by a basketball game. I really hate UPN. This is the second time this season that a new, never before aired episode of Enterprise has been pre-empted by sports.

Jwest · « **Reply #24 on:** April 18, 2003, 08:13:53 am »

My big problem with Enterprise is that Archer *never* makes a mistake. The way their writing this show, you have to wonder why the Fleet ever implemented the Prime directive, after all the Vulcans always try to enforce it, and they're *always* wrong, while Archer flouts it and is consistently correct. Let face it - He makes Jim Kirk look like the pinnacle of restraint.

Plus the fact that the continuity sucks, but I can get past that - TOS continuity was no great shakes, but the writing made up for it. I'll give it time - the first two seasons of TNG were really bad too, then they finally brought it together and had a heck of a show, but while Enterprise has a good cast, they really don't have anyone of Patrick Stewarts caliber to carry them while they get it together.

Jwest

Alidar Jarok · « **Reply #25 on:** April 18, 2003, 08:42:25 am »

It happened in Philly too

But at least I got to watch Jordan's last game (although it was on ESPN, my Cable wasn't working)

I'll try to catch it tomorrow

ancientangel · « **Reply #26 on:** April 18, 2003, 01:09:02 pm »

Here is just a minor list of good shows with a good following that have died do to reasons out of the viewers control.

BattleStar Galactica : To costly and cutting edge moral classes (Socialator ie, "Prostitute") Needed more of a Family appeal and sufferd for it.
Space Above and Beyond : Bad timing not the best enviroment to show a war type show during the Gulf War, Fox quickly and quitely ended the series at its peak.
The Others : Probably the most unseen show I have ever run into. If you missed it words can not even begin to describe its story. Only aired for one Season on NBC, during the bloodiest post season work I have ever seen in which they axed their enrite sunday (?) night line up. Killing off The Others, Profiler and Pretender with out any word.
Farscape : The unholys of unholys, the sci-fi channel killed this show after 5 years do to a bad programing schedule and constant time slot changes. Hard to build an audiance and keep them when you do not show even a rerun for nine months. Winner of many sci-fi awards, this show will be missed. www.savefarscape.com for more info.
Witch Blade : Very orginal work that always keeps you guessing. Got pulled just shortly after a year and a half by TNT. Once again they stated it was because of lack of ratings but other issues point out to certain cast members and dependancy issues.
Legand of the Rangers (Babylon 5) : Not the best story line out of the B5 Universe but it did have a little merit, give time say two years it might have panned out. Another supported Sci-fi channel production.
Crusade (Babylon 5) : Slow to get you hooked but over all quality fairly good. It was quickly put down like a rabbid dog after some 17 shows. Once again the last few shows tend to be the best and draw you in for that Aww Dam it! thats it ....no more type feeling. Another supported Sci-fi production.
SeaQuest DSV : I think this was an NBC show, how and the hell the company sold this idea to NBC and won I have no clue. It was a fairly good show which took a weird twist around the end of season two. For whatever reason, I find it hard to believe that NBC funded this show, since only a select few people would watch a story about a Deep Sea Vessel.

These are just the shows off the top of my head that could be somewhat placed under a Sci-fi type theme. Some others where not named since most shows have a natural life span of around 5-7 years depending on the story line.

Now if I had the money and the resources I would start up a Dead Channel Network and revive these shows.

Rondo_GE · « **Reply #27 on:** April 18, 2003, 01:47:01 pm »

Quote:

Enterprise has everything it needs to be a success........ except writers. The writing is bland, boring, and far too PC.

concur.

Chris Jones · « **Reply #28 on:** April 18, 2003, 02:33:34 pm »

Trek is in Remission.

TNG was the Best - DS9's later episodes - some Voyager was fun to watch. Early DS9 was boring., until they got to the Jem'Hadar, where the Odyssey was destroyed. Some Voyager was just plain stupid, but I watched it for continuity.

Enterprise I simply cannot watch. I try. i really do, but i seem to find other things to do on Wednesday nights, like mod a TNG SFC game.

TOS I grew up on. I swore by it until TNG's 3rd season episode, 'Yesterday's Enterprise'. Then I forgot about TOS for a long time. When I first saw that episode I thought, now there's real Star Trek.

TNG riveted me, right through the opening of DS9 and the 1994 series finale, 'All Good Things'. By the time TNG ended DS9 was getting good, then they spun off into Voyager. When Voyager came on DS9 was in its heyday. I stuck with Voyager after DS9 ended because I saw it as an extension of TNG and DS9. Endgame I liked, although the ending left me a bit empty.

Enterprise what's that? sorry..

Movies 1-6 - The first one was kind of a fun nostalgia trip -- 2,3,4, and 6 are all classics. 5 should've never been made.

Generatons I liked - Kirk and Picard. "They have found a way to penetrate our shields. .. Lock phasers and return fire!"

First Contact - My Fav all time trek Movie.

Insurrection - not bad - reminds me of a long TV episode

Nemesis - My 2nd all time Fav Trek movie - real close to First Conact.

By my age I should be a TOS guy. It holds a place in my heart, but TNG rules. I am reminded of a DS9 episode 'Trials and Tribulations' great DS9 there!!

i think Star Trek is in remission. Even if LOTR had not been released last December Nemesis still wouldn't have done well, I believe.

It will be back with a vengence....

and so will the mods.............

Karnak · « **Reply #29 on:** April 18, 2003, 04:18:07 pm »

Does anyone know if a Collector's Edition for "Star Trek 6: The Undiscovered Country" will be made like they did for St2 and St3?

EE · « **Reply #31 on:** April 19, 2003, 04:27:24 am »

When I had DirectTV for my TV viewing pleasure, I would watch ESPN, Fox Sports, Discovery, History Channel, The Learning Channel, Comedy Central and the normal 2-13 channels ( Abc, NBC, Fox, UPN etc ). Now that I dont, I get three channels, Pax ( UHF ), NBC and ABC. ( Channels 7 and 9 ). I mainly watch channel 7, It comes in the clearest of the two.

32nd Halcyon · « **Reply #34 on:** April 19, 2003, 04:17:55 pm »

I don't think Trek is dying. I think people are just buying the TNG seasons on DVD now that they are avaialbe. This can cause a decline in viewership. Why watch trek with the commercials when you just need to throw your shiney DVD in and watch it to get your fix?

DestinyCalling · « **Reply #35 on:** April 19, 2003, 06:07:58 pm »

There's no "buzz" in it anymore..... I'm sure everyone will remember how excited we all got back in 1985(ish) when TNG launched... Even though it sucked and blowed in equal amounts (I still cringe at the thought of Farpoint Station jellyfish holding "tentacles"..... Oh and Denise Crosby constantly overacting), it was given plenty of time to develop, with a whole stack of great trek episodes rolling out mid run. The trouble nowadays is that a new series is launched and everyone goes "Oh look, a new Trek series....... I wonder what's happening on the Simpsons?"

BTW............ BRING BACK FAMILY GUY............!!!!!!!!

Anyway, trek these days borders on mindnumbing overkill. After all, you can only tell the same story so many different times.

IMHO.... Star Trek started declining when we lost Gene Roddenberry (with a few exceptions of course) and his "human touch" is greatly missed.

Pull Trek from the airwaves for a year or two to give people the chance to "miss it" but most of all....

PARAMOUNT NEED TO RELEASE ALL 79 TOS EPISODES ON DVD.......

That'll help....

Adios

Magnum357 · « **Reply #36 on:** April 19, 2003, 11:03:16 pm »

I agree with DestinyCalling, there are so many different ways to tell the same story. I remember my mom saying to me, who was an English teacher and was a Star Trek fan herself, that the Greeks had already come up with all the plots in stories anyway. No new show comes up with anything original because the Greeks already came up with the same plot only we put a new twist to it today.

Earlier on this post, someone said that

"TOS used Romulans as Chinese, Klingons as Russians, and Feds as U.S. & U.K., we need Star Trek to go back to that kind of Trek story writing. We need episodes to explain points in political situations we have today like we did in the 60's with hippies or coldwar problems"

Only thing I can say is... why???

Why does Sci Fi have to be someones tool to express a point about something? Why can't someone just write a good story and not worry about political events? Setting aside the TV shows for a moment, and just looking at the stories of the movies, I would have to say my most favorite ST movie was Star Trek 2. Not because it probably had the greatest starship battle scences and combat (although it was cool even for todays standards) but the plot made sense and the Characters seemed beleiveable. Heck, the whole point of the Story in Star Trek 2, although sort of rediculas, but about Kirk getting too old and feeling like an antique and his ship becoming obsolete, and at the same time extreme hatred by Khan from his past as a dictator and loses he suffered on Ceti Alpha V. The point I'm saying is that this simple plot was interesting and exciting. Why does Star Trek need to back to old TOS where you have to symbolically put political events of society as the main focus. Star Trek 2 and Bablyon 5 have always seemed similar to me on flavor of how a good plot should be planned out. I remember an interveiw with the creator of B5 and asked him does he share the same veiwpoint that other writers had in adding elements of society into his stories on B5, and he said he never liked doing that because it devalues the story you originally want to convey. Just like he said he avoids adding Robots and Children as the main emphisis in stories. Guess he was right because look at the problems Star Wars had lately.

Ok, that was a lot of garbage I just wrote. Anyway, Star Trek 2 had a fairly simple plot to it and it worked out great. I don't think Enterprise is having a problem with Plot as some of the episodes I have seen lately have some original stories, its just that B & B needs to kinda inform the Star Trek audience which direction he wants go with this series. If he wants to keep it consistant with the Star Trek Universe as we know it, then he needs to do some research in the Star Trek Encycolapedia and stay consistant. TNG and DS9 did a pretty good job of this. If B & B is trying to completely rewrite Star Trek (Star Fleet Battles Universe Perhaps?) then he needs to explain that to Star Trek fans so that they know which way to look at Enterprise. Stop sitting on the fence and make a decision B & B because its getting mighty close to Season 3.

As for the Story writing of Nemisis, well... I sort of liked the movie in someways, but I must agree with others that it seems like the writer of the script just copied concepts of Star Trek 2. As I had said above, it looked like Nemisis was a complete copy of same type of plot where Picard is getting old (although not sure if the Ent-E is obsolete, heck it was only build like 5 years earlier or something. Even the Galaxy Class is still useful) and the Evil guy (was his name Shizon or something) was again just a Khan copy. What I think they should have done if they wanted to End Star Trek was to use the Character of Tasha Yar's Daughter (half Romulan and Human) in the story and have her die along with a lot of the cast and crew.

SghnDubh · « **Reply #37 on:** April 20, 2003, 01:58:14 am »

Well first, don't take what I said out of context about allegory. I'm not interested and I don't advocate the scenario you painted.

But second, if you watch (or read) for plot only, you are ignoring 90% of the richness of the story. All of the best stories work on many levels; they can stand on their own with a good plot, but they also have metaphor, subtext, allegory, etc. to think about and examine. Those are what make a story interesting.

Besides, Trek always has the same plot: Explore, fight, get saved in the nick of time, win, start again. So it has to make use of other literary conventions to be entertaining. Your plea for "just a good story" hasn't ever relied on plot alone. That's why we need "those other things."

(sidetrack off, returning to thread now)

Captain KoraH · « **Reply #38 on:** April 20, 2003, 12:58:41 pm »

It's interesting to note that a really good Trek episode is usually one that departs from the usual Trek episode synopsis. Cases in point from DS9 alone: "Trials and Tribbleations", "The Way of the Warrior" and "Sacrifice of Angels", three of the best loved DS9 episodes of all time. Also, it seems the worst Trek episodes also depart from usual Trek plotline. One memorable case from TNG: "Conspiracy" a season 1 episode that, in my opinion, is the worst Trek episode of any series, including TOS: "Spok's Brain". So it seems that departing from the norm is a hit or miss operation, ending up in either extremely good or extremely bad episodes. It takes a lot of guts for a network to allow episodes like that. Either guts or being totally oblivious about what's going on. Either way it's interesting.

Lepton1 · « **Reply #39 on:** April 20, 2003, 06:28:50 pm »

I'm just going to say it. TOS is just too campy, intentionally or not, and in terms of sci-fi philosophy too naive and juvenille. I mean Nazis in space!! Isn't there some other way to make a commentary on democracy and fascism? TOS was made by the actors and their interactions in their characters which is exactly what the new shows lack. Flat characters, no spice. Archer, the diplomat. He's Picard without the smarts and philosophizing. Boring!

Although I faithfully watch Enterprise, the thing I look most forward to is when a TOS race pops in. Roms, Tholians (damn, I wanted to see one), Gorn. That makes it for me.

Here's what Trek needs. Ideas coupled with space battles. By ideas, I mean good sci-fi ideas like temporal nuttiness, alien weirdness (Do we ever get to know anything about these races? Don't we want to know? Fill-in the backstory for goodness sake), etc all tweaked with a bit of non-sentimental post-modern philosophy. All this to give us an interesting perspective on reality without resorting to human centered sappy emotional truth BS. Like the TNG episode with Worf jumping around in alternative universes all to come away with the fact that he loves Troi or something like that or some other "Life Lesson". ICK!!! I get my melodrama elsewhere, thank you very much!

I happen to like the Temporal Cold War idea. I just wish it took a more central role in the series instead of dropped in for season cliffhangers. Most sci-fi shows lack an arc. Can't speak about B5 or Farscape. Never saw them to my dismay.

And of course, space battles. Have we ever gotten enough of this? Even in Star Wars movies with fighter action, it never seems enough or done right. The scenes are always far too short and have more to do with moral rectitude of the victor or moving the story along, than something "believeable" or just cool in terms of a battle. I hate that I missed all the Dominion War episodes on DS9, so I don't know if they got it right then. I would suppose that they did not. So much of the battle episodes seem to be about the human drama and yelling orders than let's see the ships doing things.

News:

Topic: Maybe Trek IS dying...? (Read 15350 times) var addthis_config = {"data_track_clickback":true};

Alidar Jarok

Scipio_66

nx_adam_1701

Captain KoraH

Jwest

Alidar Jarok

ancientangel

Rondo_GE

Chris Jones

Karnak

Javora

EE

Captain KoraH

SghnDubh

32nd Halcyon

DestinyCalling

Magnum357

SghnDubh

Captain KoraH

Lepton1

Topic: Maybe Trek IS dying...? (Read 15350 times)