Topic: How hard would it be to show ping? (Read 6223 times)

SghnDubh · « **on:** January 24, 2003, 04:27:14 pm »

Would it help players to see each other's ping rate on-screen, or is asking each other in main chat enough? Would this be hard to code? Is it worth the effort?
I ask because it seems lag causes so many issues that it would be good to know other's rates.

Thoughts?

Kyoshi · « **Reply #1 on:** January 24, 2003, 04:54:56 pm »

on the other hand, what would you do if you know your opponents ping?

let´s say you are engaged in a 1v1 battle and the ping would be 3000ms, will you autoforfeit then, or...
reject mighty fleet member "you have a baaaad ping bud, sorry and byebye", or...
player xy has a excelent ping to you, will you ask "let me attack him, i have a good ping to him"?

not knowing it maybe the better way if you can´t change anything, anyway, this is just my opinion.

NCC2012 · « **Reply #2 on:** January 24, 2003, 09:16:59 pm »

Just my thoughts, but I think it would be great if a person's server dictated who could play there and who couldn't based on their ping. I know I had the problem personally in D2 where my dial-up connection just wasn't cutting it, and the game (EaW)would crash whenever I'd get into combat with another person thus creating problems for myself and someone else just because of my connection speed. Yeah, there would be people complaining that they're being denied online game time, but with as many servers out there as there are at times there could be ones that are very generous with the ping numbers (unlimited) and then ones that are more restrictive as well. People could pick and choose what they fit into best and still get their online playing time's money's worth. Any thoughts?

I myself have to wait until July to get a DSL connection, so I'm not even attempting to get on the D3 at this time. I know better.

matyoung · « **Reply #3 on:** January 24, 2003, 09:41:37 pm »

I agree i really don,t know how ppl play this on dial up as the net code is very demanding even for my 1mg adsl connection and especially considering it requires you to host a match when not mainly connected to the d3 server and to be honest i like my games to run lag free and lag can tip a match on your opponents favour i for one don,t like to see ships bounce about and i feel that the server should incorporate the same "high ping your kicked" that nearly all fps servers run but one player in say distant country with a internal 56k should not ruin an entire game for the other players and this is why they are simply kicked rather than hope it runs smooth!!!!!!!

grbaker · « **Reply #4 on:** January 25, 2003, 12:02:37 am »

I think it's important that you can see your ping time to a server and the ping time of those playing on a server. (aka UT) Nothing is worse than joining a server than has really bad response times and it's even worse to discover that it's your own connection to the server slowing everthing down.

Playing a game from NZ to the US has really bad lags regardless of local connection type... but since there is no ping tool nor any other way of determining where a server'd location ... pot luck results...

me 2 cents.

Azrael · « **Reply #5 on:** January 25, 2003, 12:12:05 am »

Gah!

It winds me up to hear lag being "blamed" on 56K modem users. Have a look at some of the people with "tech issues". You'll find the bulk of them are running "super computers" with huge amounts of RAM and 2K mhz processors and a video card that costs enough to feed an African Village for a year.

Despite having High Spec PC's there's alot of people out there who's systems aren't running at their optimum, whether it's because they haven't defragged in ages, or their drivers aren't current, or the high tech devices they have in their pc's aren't ideally compatible. Their computers process information, and especially access RAM at a slower rate, causing more lag than a 28K Modem. That's not to mention people with overstocked Hard Drives or who leave other applications open, taxing their computer's resources while they try to play their game.

There are two reasons why the first bit of advice that someone having tech issues gets is: Defrag your hard drive and update your drivers.

The first, is because that's what they see everyone else say.

The second, is that it's very good advice.

If I had a 56K modem, I wouldn't tell a soul online. Already people are starting to refuse to play with them because of the mistaken beleif that it's a guarantee for lag, just like people would discriminate if they were vetting an individual's Ping rate.

However, it would be interesting to see what the Servers are Pinging at. As this would encourage games to be hosted by Servers that are "up to the task".

Azrael

zaniwhoop2 · « **Reply #6 on:** January 25, 2003, 12:28:09 am »

Quote:

Gah!

It winds me up to hear lag being "blamed" on 56K modem users. Have a look at some of the people with "tech issues". You'll find the bulk of them are running "super computers" with huge amounts of RAM and 2K mhz processors and a video card that costs enough to feed an African Village for a year.

Despite having High Spec PC's there's alot of people out there who's systems aren't running at their optimum, whether it's because they haven't defragged in ages, or their drivers aren't current, or the high tech devices they have in their pc's aren't ideally compatible. Their computers process information, and especially access RAM at a slower rate, causing more lag than a 28K Modem. That's not to mention people with overstocked Hard Drives or who leave other applications open, taxing their computer's resources while they try to play their game.

There are two reasons why the first bit of advice that someone having tech issues gets is: Defrag your hard drive and update your drivers.

The first, is because that's what they see everyone else say.

The second, is that it's very good advice.

If I had a 56K modem, I wouldn't tell a soul online. Already people are starting to refuse to play with them because of the mistaken beleif that it's a guarantee for lag, just like people would discriminate if they were vetting an individual's Ping rate.

However, it would be interesting to see what the Servers are Pinging at. As this would encourage games to be hosted by Servers that are "up to the task".

Azrael

Typcially from what I've found, a slow modem will cause more lag for people than a computer that's not running optimially. In the case of SFC3, just about everything from the last 2 years should run it without a hiccup (unless there's nasty spyware...different story). I typically leave applications open when I play games, and it tends not to interfere at all. RAM speed doesn't make too much of a difference to the average user. (I saw average, hardcore FPS gamers, video editors, etc... notice the speed hit).

Dash Jones · « **Reply #7 on:** January 25, 2003, 05:11:24 am »

Actually, I've found with a DSL/Cable that I lag. In UR Tournament 2003 I have really low pings under 100, however I find that even in high speed connection games, I get into interminable lag at times, depending on the computer I am using, and I suspect, whatever computers someone else is using. I think a person with a 7or 1 ghz computer, with too little RAM (512 and below) and a high speed connection will lag you worse than someone with a 2-3 mhz computer with tons of RAM but a low connection speed, at least in my experience. I can't vouch for those who are on the low end of everything. Ping is part of the factor, but there are other things as well that plays into it.

matyoung · « **Reply #8 on:** January 25, 2003, 06:21:37 am »

It does help to have a good system as i said before you host the game not the d3 server (as this drops out of the loop so to speak when you go into battle) so if your using a 233 mhz with 32mb or ram and are trying to host a game with 4 or more ppl then your system might not be up to the task but i would recommend that ppl ask what your connection is or just that if they have good spec,s to be the fleet leader if u feel your system is not up to the task i would love it if we all had 2.0ghz 512ddr and a 1mb adsl connection to run our games we might even see nice 6 player battles with no lag (creaming myself at the thought) at the moment the best tool we have is us. Communicate that u would not be a good fleet leader try to fleet with guys at least in the same region but again this takes us to work together to better our play experience..

Azrael · « **Reply #9 on:** January 25, 2003, 06:41:57 am »

I'm just sticking up for the 56K folks because I've noticed people badmouthing them online and ignoring them.

I know from experience that 56K users can host games with minimal to no lag, and I've seen people with super computers who've hosted games that are laggy. Not just on SFC III but online with Medieval Total War as well.

Using a 56K connection, I have participated in some absolutely awesome 6 player battles without any consequential lag, putting people out of sync, though you wouldn't catch me trying to host a 6 player battle on a 56K connection.

That being said, it is good advice to try and let the person with the best connection host the battles.

Azrael

Aenigma · « **Reply #10 on:** January 25, 2003, 06:43:53 am »

I always wondered if the networking code could be a little bit more streamlined, or maybe get a dedicated battle-server. I have seen people with really uberconnections not able to host a game with more than five players. Maybe they could use some kind of compression (would raise minimum system requirements though). And do something about the frequent package loss (that's the fun of having a program that can register packet losses). It looks like i lose packages quite much, which causes crashes (even to desktop).

A ping display would be quite nice, but i don't know what use it has besides fleeting up with a player with low ping, or maybe let lag-alert go off.
"Go to Lag Alert commander!"

Aenigma

Julin Eurthyr · « **Reply #11 on:** January 25, 2003, 09:43:50 pm »

At one point, I did play a couple of SFC II games on a 56K modem connection.
And my system was "weak", Celeron 400 MHZ w/64 MB RAM on Win ME, using a 32mb Diamond video card.

However, for the few games I've played on that connection, I had no issues with lag on that 56k, and I actually hosted a 3 player battle or 2, again, no lag.

However, I also had a preety good dial-up connection (regularly connected at 52,000 - 53,000 kbps) on clean phone lines (only dropped when a call came in over call waiting)...

I've also played with that same system on a cable modem, and it was no different. I have also upgraded to a "newer" computer (Celeron 900 w/ 128 MB ram, still Win ME, this one using an Intel integrated video card), and had no issues there, too. On the most recent "big" server, AotK, I had myself, Blade, and a Klingon RM (I can't remember who) on for an ambush mission (the Klingon was the recipient of an ISC ambush), which I initiated, and went off lag free (even though Blade had a carrier...)

NCC2012 · « **Reply #12 on:** January 25, 2003, 11:45:44 pm »

Okay, I guess I've just been educated a little more. I should have thought about the other things that can cause lag and not just single out modems. Thanks for the heads up, and no offense to modem users was implied.

I do still think the ping requirement idea is worth something though. If your ping is horrible, try to find out why that is. Like one person said above, a good defrag on the hard drive might be the problem. Maybe it's something else. Maybe someone is trying to run the game on a system that's only halfway to the recommended specs. Who knows? But it would be a place to start when you're not able to connect, and the warning flag in one's head suggests that they need to do something to not ruin an experience for someone else.

SghnDubh · « **Reply #13 on:** January 24, 2003, 04:27:14 pm »

Would it help players to see each other's ping rate on-screen, or is asking each other in main chat enough? Would this be hard to code? Is it worth the effort?
I ask because it seems lag causes so many issues that it would be good to know other's rates.

Thoughts?

Kyoshi · « **Reply #14 on:** January 24, 2003, 04:54:56 pm »

on the other hand, what would you do if you know your opponents ping?

let´s say you are engaged in a 1v1 battle and the ping would be 3000ms, will you autoforfeit then, or...
reject mighty fleet member "you have a baaaad ping bud, sorry and byebye", or...
player xy has a excelent ping to you, will you ask "let me attack him, i have a good ping to him"?

not knowing it maybe the better way if you can´t change anything, anyway, this is just my opinion.

NCC2012 · « **Reply #15 on:** January 24, 2003, 09:16:59 pm »

Just my thoughts, but I think it would be great if a person's server dictated who could play there and who couldn't based on their ping. I know I had the problem personally in D2 where my dial-up connection just wasn't cutting it, and the game (EaW)would crash whenever I'd get into combat with another person thus creating problems for myself and someone else just because of my connection speed. Yeah, there would be people complaining that they're being denied online game time, but with as many servers out there as there are at times there could be ones that are very generous with the ping numbers (unlimited) and then ones that are more restrictive as well. People could pick and choose what they fit into best and still get their online playing time's money's worth. Any thoughts?

I myself have to wait until July to get a DSL connection, so I'm not even attempting to get on the D3 at this time. I know better.

matyoung · « **Reply #16 on:** January 24, 2003, 09:41:37 pm »

I agree i really don,t know how ppl play this on dial up as the net code is very demanding even for my 1mg adsl connection and especially considering it requires you to host a match when not mainly connected to the d3 server and to be honest i like my games to run lag free and lag can tip a match on your opponents favour i for one don,t like to see ships bounce about and i feel that the server should incorporate the same "high ping your kicked" that nearly all fps servers run but one player in say distant country with a internal 56k should not ruin an entire game for the other players and this is why they are simply kicked rather than hope it runs smooth!!!!!!!

grbaker · « **Reply #17 on:** January 25, 2003, 12:02:37 am »

I think it's important that you can see your ping time to a server and the ping time of those playing on a server. (aka UT) Nothing is worse than joining a server than has really bad response times and it's even worse to discover that it's your own connection to the server slowing everthing down.

Playing a game from NZ to the US has really bad lags regardless of local connection type... but since there is no ping tool nor any other way of determining where a server'd location ... pot luck results...

me 2 cents.

Azrael · « **Reply #18 on:** January 25, 2003, 12:12:05 am »

Gah!

It winds me up to hear lag being "blamed" on 56K modem users. Have a look at some of the people with "tech issues". You'll find the bulk of them are running "super computers" with huge amounts of RAM and 2K mhz processors and a video card that costs enough to feed an African Village for a year.

Despite having High Spec PC's there's alot of people out there who's systems aren't running at their optimum, whether it's because they haven't defragged in ages, or their drivers aren't current, or the high tech devices they have in their pc's aren't ideally compatible. Their computers process information, and especially access RAM at a slower rate, causing more lag than a 28K Modem. That's not to mention people with overstocked Hard Drives or who leave other applications open, taxing their computer's resources while they try to play their game.

There are two reasons why the first bit of advice that someone having tech issues gets is: Defrag your hard drive and update your drivers.

The first, is because that's what they see everyone else say.

The second, is that it's very good advice.

If I had a 56K modem, I wouldn't tell a soul online. Already people are starting to refuse to play with them because of the mistaken beleif that it's a guarantee for lag, just like people would discriminate if they were vetting an individual's Ping rate.

However, it would be interesting to see what the Servers are Pinging at. As this would encourage games to be hosted by Servers that are "up to the task".

Azrael

Dash Jones · « **Reply #20 on:** January 25, 2003, 05:11:24 am »

Actually, I've found with a DSL/Cable that I lag. In UR Tournament 2003 I have really low pings under 100, however I find that even in high speed connection games, I get into interminable lag at times, depending on the computer I am using, and I suspect, whatever computers someone else is using. I think a person with a 7or 1 ghz computer, with too little RAM (512 and below) and a high speed connection will lag you worse than someone with a 2-3 mhz computer with tons of RAM but a low connection speed, at least in my experience. I can't vouch for those who are on the low end of everything. Ping is part of the factor, but there are other things as well that plays into it.

matyoung · « **Reply #21 on:** January 25, 2003, 06:21:37 am »

It does help to have a good system as i said before you host the game not the d3 server (as this drops out of the loop so to speak when you go into battle) so if your using a 233 mhz with 32mb or ram and are trying to host a game with 4 or more ppl then your system might not be up to the task but i would recommend that ppl ask what your connection is or just that if they have good spec,s to be the fleet leader if u feel your system is not up to the task i would love it if we all had 2.0ghz 512ddr and a 1mb adsl connection to run our games we might even see nice 6 player battles with no lag (creaming myself at the thought) at the moment the best tool we have is us. Communicate that u would not be a good fleet leader try to fleet with guys at least in the same region but again this takes us to work together to better our play experience..

Azrael · « **Reply #22 on:** January 25, 2003, 06:41:57 am »

I'm just sticking up for the 56K folks because I've noticed people badmouthing them online and ignoring them.

I know from experience that 56K users can host games with minimal to no lag, and I've seen people with super computers who've hosted games that are laggy. Not just on SFC III but online with Medieval Total War as well.

Using a 56K connection, I have participated in some absolutely awesome 6 player battles without any consequential lag, putting people out of sync, though you wouldn't catch me trying to host a 6 player battle on a 56K connection.

That being said, it is good advice to try and let the person with the best connection host the battles.

Azrael

Aenigma · « **Reply #23 on:** January 25, 2003, 06:43:53 am »

I always wondered if the networking code could be a little bit more streamlined, or maybe get a dedicated battle-server. I have seen people with really uberconnections not able to host a game with more than five players. Maybe they could use some kind of compression (would raise minimum system requirements though). And do something about the frequent package loss (that's the fun of having a program that can register packet losses). It looks like i lose packages quite much, which causes crashes (even to desktop).

A ping display would be quite nice, but i don't know what use it has besides fleeting up with a player with low ping, or maybe let lag-alert go off.
"Go to Lag Alert commander!"

Aenigma

Julin Eurthyr · « **Reply #24 on:** January 25, 2003, 09:43:50 pm »

At one point, I did play a couple of SFC II games on a 56K modem connection.
And my system was "weak", Celeron 400 MHZ w/64 MB RAM on Win ME, using a 32mb Diamond video card.

However, for the few games I've played on that connection, I had no issues with lag on that 56k, and I actually hosted a 3 player battle or 2, again, no lag.

However, I also had a preety good dial-up connection (regularly connected at 52,000 - 53,000 kbps) on clean phone lines (only dropped when a call came in over call waiting)...

I've also played with that same system on a cable modem, and it was no different. I have also upgraded to a "newer" computer (Celeron 900 w/ 128 MB ram, still Win ME, this one using an Intel integrated video card), and had no issues there, too. On the most recent "big" server, AotK, I had myself, Blade, and a Klingon RM (I can't remember who) on for an ambush mission (the Klingon was the recipient of an ISC ambush), which I initiated, and went off lag free (even though Blade had a carrier...)

NCC2012 · « **Reply #25 on:** January 25, 2003, 11:45:44 pm »

Okay, I guess I've just been educated a little more. I should have thought about the other things that can cause lag and not just single out modems. Thanks for the heads up, and no offense to modem users was implied.

I do still think the ping requirement idea is worth something though. If your ping is horrible, try to find out why that is. Like one person said above, a good defrag on the hard drive might be the problem. Maybe it's something else. Maybe someone is trying to run the game on a system that's only halfway to the recommended specs. Who knows? But it would be a place to start when you're not able to connect, and the warning flag in one's head suggests that they need to do something to not ruin an experience for someone else.

News:

Topic: How hard would it be to show ping? (Read 6223 times) var addthis_config = {"data_track_clickback":true};

SghnDubh

Kyoshi

NCC2012

matyoung

grbaker

Azrael

zaniwhoop2

Dash Jones

matyoung

Azrael

Aenigma

Julin Eurthyr

NCC2012

SghnDubh

Kyoshi

NCC2012

matyoung

grbaker

Azrael

zaniwhoop2

Dash Jones

matyoung

Azrael

Aenigma

Julin Eurthyr

NCC2012

Topic: How hard would it be to show ping? (Read 6223 times)