Topic: more inane modeling questions.

[Holocat]

Well, i've hopefully gotten over the technical hurdles that will allow me to export my models back to a .mod format, thanks to Reverend.  My apologies to you, Reverend, if I didn't respond for half a month, but I thought that thread died, and thus didn't check back on it.

Anyway, i've come across two problems.  I'm at my wits end trying to find the correct UV projection specifications for the part of each bitmap that is used in the taldren stock bitmaps and want to break up the bitmaps into seperate, managable bitmaps.  However, I know that if I do this, i'm going to have problems with damage textures showing up down the road.

My first question would then be, how do damage textures get displayed, and is there a method where I can still have them display despite breaking up textures / using custom textures?

My second question concerns break models;  Is this as simple as cutting up one's model into little bits and texturing the sweet, chewy innards with damage texture, or is there something more?

Hopefully, i'll be past the basic stages of my plans soon,

Holocat.

[3dot14]

there are detailed information in the SFC3ModellingTools file (the manual.pdf) on both subjects.

I won't try to explain them, (I will only confuse you) hopefully once you see that file, you'd understand.

[Holocat]

Ah, this modeling is to be done for SFC2 OP;  I don't have SFC3, couldn't run well enough to play if I did, and am pretty sure that SFC3 and SFC2 OP modeling is incompatable.  I'm first trying to get a formula for model building that works, and then i'm going to see about the tugs for firesoul's OP+ kit.  Construction and modeling itself is going quickly enough, but until I know what to do to make custom textures compatable with SFC2 OP, make damage textures show, and how to make break models, I'm a bit stuck on the texturing side of things.  *mutter mutter* truescape isn't being terribly cooperative in the texture department anyway, which is why I want to break up the textures into a horde of seperate files.  

I've read the modding 101 bit, and the question comes to mind whether I should be texturing the models in Truespace, or wait until they're a .mod file again and then to texture with a different program.

If you or anyone else could give me the lowdown on this, or point me to a document that does, i'd be greatful.

Yar, there be the-pieces-that-might-oneday-hopefully-become-tugs here,

Holocat.
 

[DarkMatrix]

sfc2/op and sfc3 are the same thing just glows are added to sfc3 models

DM

[Holocat]

Thank you both, I shall download the SFC3 modeling tools posthaste

What, you mean kitbashing dosen't involve hitting your computer?

Holocat.

[Holocat]

Alright.  From what I understand of the document I just read, One must do the following:

1. Build a model.

2. Add dummy objects for hardpoints and damage points (do these dummy damage points exist in OP?)

3. texture according to the rules (the rules being, multiple of 2 bitmaps [is the not nessisarily square caveat SFC3 only, or does this apply to SFC2/SFCOP? as well?], damage bitmaps in seperate files [Now I KNOW this can't be the way it works in SFCOP;  damage textures and normal textures share the same files], and mirroring to reduce requisite texture memory [Just great;  I knew the tools I'm using are primitive, but now with attempting to do this I know just *how* primitive, hehe ].

4. create the break model by ripping the model to shreds (note to self:  SAVE FIRST TO SEPERATE FILE) and set their rotation.  In SFC3 these parts are numbered, but not apparently so in SFCOP.

5. And if you want to import your own model, rather than modifying an existing one (which is what I am doing since Truescape won't properly recognize the taldren models, even after conversion [long story short;  They load but modifying them is a pain;  easier to make from scratch, with taldren model as guide]  I had best "Get notes from Marc."

Who's Marc?  Where's his notes?  They'd be useful, I think.

Alright, I still need to know how damage textures apply in SFC OP (Is it a dedicated AREA of certian bitmaps?  I'm still clueless here.)

I'm DEFINITELY going to have trouble texturing;  Any assistance would be welcomed.

I suspect I will be completely unable to do the dummy objects as Truespace isn't to keen on things that don't exist as a visible thing.  Hopefully Assimview and other tools will let me do this.

Break models have been explained, at least implicitly.  Break the model.  Store the parts as seperate parts.  make sure their axis of rotation isn't somewhere off in the Land of Oz.

I DO want to be able to do LOD as well, to save processing time as my computer is hardly top of the line.  I'll leave that for the day after I can get one model to work though.

And yes, the advice in the pdf is correct;  When finished a model it is best to play with one's pet/ go for a walk/ talk to a friend, as one has probably shut themselfs up for some time and your pets will miss the attention,

Holocat.
   

[Holocat]

Due to the speed with which this thread has reached total obescuity, and due to the need for information, I must bump.

Woah, heavy traffic in this area,

Holocat.

[Holocat]

Alright, the first tug, an F-LTT (I think), is completed.  Since it's built from scratch, but using taldren's parts as a guide, i'll call it a scratchbash.  However, I have some very large technical problems that I must now address.

Firstly, Truespace to my knowledge dosen't have a function to tell me a polycount;  I want to know how complex this thing is compared to the ship it's based off of, the NCL.

Secondly, after reading the manual.pdf in the SFC3 tools .zip, I am fairly certian that I CANNOT TEXTURE THE MODELS MEANINGFULY.  If I were to, the texture mapping will not port over when imported, and will most certianly not be compatible with SFC OP's rules concerning texture files.

Thirdly, I still have no method of porting the ship over to a .mod fomat.

I beseech assistance.  Specifically, I NEED someone to at least convert the models to .mod format.  If that is done, I can (technically) texture and hardpoint the models using assimview and SFC2ED.  I predict that, since I have little working knowledge of these two programs, that there will be significant delays if I forge this path.

A far faster path is if someone could texture the models for me.  I know, i'm asking for alot, since texturing is, really, most of the work, but as i've stated before, texturing the model in truespace won't get me anywhere.

If someone would texture AND hardpoint, well then you'd be the bee's knees.

I'm going to start work on gorn part copying.  I hope that assistance can be found for this pet project.

Rattles a little rusty, battered kitten cup, "Help, texture help for the poor,"

Holocat.

 

[Holocat]

Alright, the second tug, a Gorn CL to tug conversion is complete and untextured.  Again, the usual hue and cry go out for people with 3DS and a little bit of spare time.

Oh yes, I should mention that I wish the models textured with the taldren stock textures as much as possible, as I want the model files themselves as small as possible, and to allow everyone to use the models on their systems, particularly the ones with lower end systems, such as myself.

Anyway, *rattle rattle*

Holocat.

[anduril]

If you could find a way to post pic's of your meshes it may help find some help.  

[Holocat]

I'd need to put them somewhere online, wouldn't I?  I have very little clue as to how to get pictures on here.  I don't even have an avatar.

How would I go about this, exactly?

The Mirak tug should also be pretty quick and dirty, if things go along nicely,

Holocat.  

[Pataflafla]

Ok, let me see if I can help.

Damage textures in SFC II: EAW & OP are handled by the game engine independant of anything you do other than place damage points (remember those dummy objects). Basically, when a weapon is fired thru a particular shield, that fire goes to one of as many as three dp's associated with that shield arc. If the damage is bad enough to warrent it, SFC pulls damage textures from the SFC/assets/textures folder and slaps them on the model where that dp is. There is none of this fancy damage texture stuff like in SFC3 (I don't know how that works exactly, I don't have SFC3 and I haven't modded any ships for that game yet). So, in SFC II all ships have the same damage textures.

The only exception is when you make a break model. Say you cut the model into several pieces (objects) and there are open places in the mesh where the cuts where made. Ok, say you fill those open holes in the mesh in with some polys. Since they aren't part of the regular model and these polys are located in areas which would be on the inside of the regular model  and since you've just created them.....they don't have any textures coordinates nor material assingments. So, you could put a damage texture in your model folder and assign it to these polys. This represents the broken off, jagged ends of the broken up ship.  But these damage textures have nothing to do with the damage you see on your ship when it gets hit by weapons fire. Those damage textures are located in SFC/assets/textures. I beleive there are seperate damage textures in there for monsters. I think its the "organic damage" stuff thats in there.

As for texturing, you can retexture a model without using any 3d modeling software at all. Just use the original textures as a template and redraw the textures. If you take the original texture and blow it up, you can even make the textures bigger or higher resolution (ie, from 256x256 to 1024x1024). Just use the blown up original texture as a template for drawing your new textures.
This will require a bunch of trial and error because you can't change the UV coordinates. You're stuck with them. What I do when texturing like this is to keep ModViewer open and just refresh the model everytime I save a change in the texture I'm working on. Go back and forth between your drawing program and ModViewer until you're happy. Could be a while.

Also, textures in SFC II don't have to be square. Just take a look at Moon's D-7 K'tinga. This is a great example. He's got all kinds of little bity oddly shaped textures in there and the model runs just fine.

Lastly, get 3d max.

Hope some of this helps.

_________________________

   

[Julin Eurthyr]

The quick and dirty art of posting a picture to Taldren's board.

Step 1.  Get your picture.  Screenshot, whatever.  Save it preferably in .jpg or .gif format (bitmaps are way too large sometimes and a pain for 56k modem users...)

Step 2.  Upload that image to a website somewhere.  Many ISPs offer some webspace with an account, or you can hook up with someone willing to host the picture for you...

Step 3.  Write post with the following:  <image>your image's url here</image>, replacing the <> with square braces.  That will have the forum call up your image and display it smack dab in the middle of your post.

[Holocat]

Alright, the Mirak's tug model design is finalized, (unless firesoul really dosen't like it), and though the model's there it's not *quite* finished yet.  Need to do tweaking on it.  

For the most part, Pataflafla has placed much of my damage texture fears to rest, though it raises intresting questions as to why my OP uses the standard damage textures for monster damage instead of the organic damage pics.  One DOES see the green innards when they die, but they also have organic damage textures in their individual texture files and Pataflafla implied that these were to be used for the break model so...

Anyway, it is true that retexturing alone wouldn't be a problem if I was using a stock ship.  Unfortunately, i'm not;  The tugs built look similar to their line counterparts, but they do have large model differences.  In addition, truespace forces me to create all the parts I use to make the ships from scratch, so I needs be texture from the same condition: scratch, at least in the sense that I have to reapply/modifiy existing textures.  In addition, Truespace isn't as texture friendly as 3DS apparently is.  Nevertheless Pataflafla's suggestions and examples (such as the moonraker D7) has given me needed information and allowed me to continue conjecture on how I can fool truespace into letting me texture according to taldren's rules.

I'll buy 3DS when I have a load of cash to spare, which won't be for a long, long time

I am, thanks to pataflafla, no longer confused on the issue of break models but am still wary;  Should I just create a series of cobs, each containing a 'part' of the broken ship, create a cob that has all the parts in an Heirachy, or just mooch about for someone else to do them, if simply creating the breaks proves less painful than porting over anything I can do in Truespace?

Once i've finished the Hydran tug (last nessisary tug, I think...) i'll paw over to some webspace and post pics;  As it is now, i've got my paws full with making the tugs themselves.

Engineering starships is difficult when you have no thumbs and the food-providing monkey keeps telling you to get off the keyboard,

Holocat.