Topic: A history and analysis of Romulan ships

[Magnum357]

Why is their always some Trekkies out their that try to judge how powerful a ship is based on what they saw on the show?   The only show in Star Trek that came close to determining how powerful ships are from one another is probably DS9, but I know how many Star Trek fans don't like that show etheir.  That is why I've always been a SFB fan, the game was based on its own universe and not some theories of writers and fans.  

[La'ra]

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The Romulan sensors where good enough to whatever around whatever so that whatever could work, and that could now safely jettison whatever without compromising whatever abilites to function. I don't think they could of know that threw looking threw a telescope.  

Maybe not telescopes, no, but what they did probably didn't require that much in the way of sensor tech.  Hell, they could've been monitoring the number of people with welding torches in the area of the mine.  When the torches went out, they figured they were done.

Far-fetched, I'll admit, but the point that there's very little evidence one way or the other still stands.

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The fact they even had shields shows the ship probably had superior technology than the NX.  

Maybe.  Maybe not.  Perhaps they went all out to get shields because they don't have the 'stop anything' hull plating of the NX-01.

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Also, Romulans are a thinking race. The Early BoPs where probably superior to the NX, but the Romulans wouldn't of know if that vessel was the strongest they had. The NX might of been just a scout ship, they might have something alot stronger or more advance. Or they might of have had huge fleets.

Romulans are chess players. It would go against there nature to start a war with an enemy they knew nothing about.

I know all about Romulans.  If you've never read any of Jaeih T'Radiak's fan fiction over on that board, I suggest you go take a look.  Admittedly she uses the more militaristic old-show Romulans rather than the mustache-twirling villians of TNG, but she does show that the really bad-ass Rommies she prefers are slowly becoming a minority.

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So, they don't outright destroy the NX-01 and possibly start a war, the intimidate them, giving them a display of power, make them shake with fear, scare them so bad that they never come near your space again.

Or they weren't sure how the fight would turn out and relied on bluff.

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 Enterprise is my second favorite after DS9.    

DS9 had very strong moments, though I thought the Dominion War was handled poorly, and the 1,000 ship battles seemed so not-Star Trek.  

[Tremok]

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The Romulan sensors where good enough to whatever around whatever so that whatever could work, and that could now safely jettison whatever without compromising whatever abilites to function. I don't think they could of know that threw looking threw a telescope.  

Maybe not telescopes, no, but what they did probably didn't require that much in the way of sensor tech.  Hell, they could've been monitoring the number of people with welding torches in the area of the mine.  When the torches went out, they figured they were done.

Far-fetched, I'll admit, but the point that there's very little evidence one way or the other still stands.

 Trip: We can't eject the hull section because of technobabble. It will require 4 hours of technobabble modifictions to able to.

Romulan at the end of the show: We know you have done this technobabble (goes into detail) so that you can now eject the hull plating and mine safely. Do so now and leave or we will blow you into whatever hell your species goto when you die.

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The fact they even had shields shows the ship probably had superior technology than the NX.  

Maybe.  Maybe not.  Perhaps they went all out to get shields because they don't have the 'stop anything' hull plating of the NX-01.

 Didn't stop old Romulan mines very well did? I know, I know, the hull wasn't polarized, but still..  

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Also, Romulans are a thinking race. The Early BoPs where probably superior to the NX, but the Romulans wouldn't of know if that vessel was the strongest they had. The NX might of been just a scout ship, they might have something alot stronger or more advance. Or they might of have had huge fleets.

Romulans are chess players. It would go against there nature to start a war with an enemy they knew nothing about.

I know all about Romulans.  If you've never read any of Jaeih T'Radiak's fan fiction over on that board, I suggest you go take a look.  Admittedly she uses the more militaristic old-show Romulans rather than the mustache-twirling villians of TNG, but she does show that the really bad-ass Rommies she prefers are slowly becoming a minority.

 I have read one or two of Jaeihs older stories, and will soon read some of her newer ones. If only if Sethan would get backed to writing... The bum...

I too have noticed the TOS Romulans seem different than the TNG ones. It makes sense to me, going along with Jaeihs "old schools are dying out as time goes one", the ENT Romulan Empire should be filled with more old school Romulans than either TOS or TNG.

Or perhaps the old school Romulans where well on there way in Enterprise, but the legendary Romulan Sethan made the old ways come back strong in the TOS era.

But lets not loose all hope now; the Romulans in Nemesis should themsevles to be strong in mnhei'sahe.  

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So, they don't outright destroy the NX-01 and possibly start a war, the intimidate them, giving them a display of power, make them shake with fear, scare them so bad that they never come near your space again.

Or they weren't sure how the fight would turn out and relied on bluff.

 Well, no use damaging or risking your ships unnecessarily. Why immediately engage it and risk starting a war when you can just growl and roar at it and send it running off with its tail between its legs?

Though, I think we will both agree that the Romulans where going to make that ship leave in short or that ship was going to be blown into pieces.  

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 Enterprise is my second favorite after DS9.    

DS9 had very strong moments, though I thought the Dominion War was handled poorly, and the 1,000 ship battles seemed so not-Star Trek.  

 Suit yourself. I liked it. And I thought those hundreds of ships space battles were the coolest sci-fi combat ever.    

[32nd Halcyon]

Aren't the Romulans behind much of the time altering with the Suliban?
They would be able to know the specs for the NX-1, wouldn't they?

Correct me if I'm wrong. I've only seen a handful of the shows due to my work schedule.

[Tremok]

 Many people seem to believe this, since the Romulans are so  Fvadting  devious.

But there is no canon to support this.    

[Alidar Jarok]

I have read one or two of Jaeihs older stories, and will soon read some of her newer ones. If only if Sethan would get backed to writing... The bum...

Yeah

I want to read "Survivng the Fire"

Anyway

In "The Enterprise Incident" it was said

"They want something, or they would have destroyed us by now."

In the Defector Picard said,

"Not yet, Mister Worf.  This is just a tap on the shoulder. Or we wouldn't be here talking about it"

In Tin Man they didn't even bother to hail (they just started firing)

So the Romulans really haven't changed that much.

I believe T'Pol said they were highly agressive.

I think they didn't attack for the same reason they didn't attack the Enterprise (D) in "The Neutral Zone"

They were judging the Enterprise

It was decided to just let them leave before they could start spying.

Later, they would regret this decision and attack on site.

The Federation used that to interperet the Romulans as a savage race.

Remember, that is just my opinion
 

[Tremok]

 

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Yeah

I want to read "Survivng the Fire"  

 Indeed, I wish I could find a link back to the old forums to the story. Or that Sethan would be so kind as to repost it in the new ones.  


 

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I believe T'Pol said they were highly agressive. (snip)  

 Indeed they are, but they AREN'T reckless either.  They calculate their moves.  
 
   

[Tremok]

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Why is their always some Trekkies out their that try to judge how powerful a ship is based on what they saw on the show?   The only show in Star Trek that came close to determining how powerful ships are from one another is probably DS9, but I know how many Star Trek fans don't like that show etheir.  That is why I've always been a SFB fan, the game was based on its own universe and not some theories of writers and fans.  

 Because the TV shows and the movies are the only things that are canon?    

[Karnak]

I will never accept the idea that the BoP in TOS "Balance of Terror" episode was not warp capable.   The Rom travels too far too fast to justifly sub-light max. velocity. I tend to think Roms were stuck with Warp 3 max. engines until their treaty with the Klingons.  Travelling at Warp 3 (approx. 40c)  is enough to carve out a 50 to 100 Light year diameter empire.

[La'ra]

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 Because the TV shows and the movies are the only things that are canon?    

I was gonna say 'because it's fun'.  The yellow reads easier than the green, btw.  I'll get around to responding to your previous reply later this afternoon.  

[Tremok]

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 Because the TV shows and the movies are the only things that are canon?    

I was gonna say 'because it's fun'.  The yellow reads easier than the green, btw.  I'll get around to responding to your previous reply later this afternoon.  

 
(checks date)

Come on La'ra! Don't let me down!    

[ChamadaIV]

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Why is their always some Trekkies out their that try to judge how powerful a ship is based on what they saw on the show?   The only show in Star Trek that came close to determining how powerful ships are from one another is probably DS9, but I know how many Star Trek fans don't like that show etheir.  That is why I've always been a SFB fan, the game was based on its own universe and not some theories of writers and fans.  

There needs to be some kind of official nod to a publicized version of the "facts." If the Star Trek Encyclopedia or some other more reliable source were sanctioned by Paramount Pictures as canon material, then these endless debates would be pointless (aka "the D'Deridex is clearly the superior ship than the Galaxy class and here's why..." or "no, your argument is incorrect as you have no canon sources to back up your argument..." blah, blah). It's just like the other thread where Tremok and myself had it off about why a Klingon D5 warship couldn't defeat the NX-01 in the first few shots.

Somebody at Paramount needs to set the record straight once and for all with an official publication from the very people who create the ships and the writers who create the fictional technology. It would be a good way to cap off all the DVD re-releases of the shows and movies.

We can start with an intro; "In the mid 1960s, Gene Roddenberry devised a new concept set in the science fiction genre..." From there, Paramount can address all the canon inconsistency issues from TOS to ENT. Give us total starship specs and comparisons, including an explanation of all the technology involved and so forth. Whatever they want, as long as the preface or somepart of the book(s) states that it is official canon material by Paramount, and not simply licensed material. When we have that, then the masses shall be appeased. But until then...

There is no way a Valdore could equal or better the firepower of a Sovereign class ship. Does the Quantum Torpedo mean anything to you guys? The Roms plasma torpedo, no matter how powerful, could never stand up to the rapid fire capability and reliablity of the quants, imho. But then again, we know so little of the Valdores to draw a proper conclusion other than the fact that the Scimitar destroyed one and easily disabled another. This coming from only one movie and just a few minutes of footage.

 

So there,  

CIV  

[Tremok]

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Why is their always some Trekkies out their that try to judge how powerful a ship is based on what they saw on the show?   The only show in Star Trek that came close to determining how powerful ships are from one another is probably DS9, but I know how many Star Trek fans don't like that show etheir.  That is why I've always been a SFB fan, the game was based on its own universe and not some theories of writers and fans.  

There needs to be some kind of official nod to a publicized version of the "facts." If the Star Trek Encyclopedia or some other more reliable source were sanctioned by Paramount Pictures as canon material, then these endless debates would be pointless (aka "the D'Deridex is clearly the superior ship than the Galaxy class and here's why..." or "no, your argument is incorrect as you have no canon sources to back up your argument..." blah, blah). It's just like the other thread where Tremok and myself had it off about why a Klingon D5 warship couldn't defeat the NX-01 in the first few shots.

 Well, they don't. And I enjoy these discussions.  

Somebody at Paramount needs to set the record straight once and for all with an official publication from the very people who create the ships and the writers who create the fictional technology. It would be a good way to cap off all the DVD re-releases of the shows and movies.

 You say so.  

We can start with an intro; "In the mid 1960s, Gene Roddenberry devised a new concept set in the science fiction genre..." From there, Paramount can address all the canon inconsistency issues from TOS to ENT. Give us total starship specs and comparisons, including an explanation of all the technology involved and so forth. Whatever they want, as long as the preface or somepart of the book(s) states that it is official canon material by Paramount, and not simply licensed material. When we have that, then the masses shall be appeased. But until then...

  I think the closes your gonna get is the unofficial word from the ship creators on the Alt.startrek.net message boards.  I had a few discussions with Rick Sternbach on Star Trek ships a ways back. Good guy.  

There is no way a Valdore could equal or better the firepower of a Sovereign class ship.

 Says who?  

Does the Quantum Torpedo mean anything to you guys? The Roms plasma torpedo, no matter how powerful, could never stand up to the rapid fire capability and reliablity of the quants, imho.

 Rapid fire capability? Reliablity? Bit of an arrogant assumption to make, considering we nothing absolutely nothing of Romulan torpedoes.  

But then again, we know so little of the Valdores to draw a proper conclusion

 Guess we better not make any claims that one ship is superior over the other because one torpedo one ship has is better than another ships torpedo that we know absolutely nothing about then huh?  

other than the fact that the Scimitar destroyed one and easily disabled another. This coming from only one movie and just a few minutes of footage.

 Bah, the Scimitar cleaned house against all the ships.  
 

[ChamadaIV]

I see you rather enjoy dissecting other people's words as they are written with line-by-line analysis summed up in just a few words/phrases/sentences. Annoying, but understandable (expects this line to be commented on as well).

If you thought that last part about the torpedoes and the Valdore vs Sovereign was a serious argument, then you are woefully mistaken. I was merely proving a point by what I said earlier just to show others how pointless and silly these Trek discussions are (I get caught in the trap myself time and time again, and I expect I will yet again in the future). They are fun and sometimes insightful, but ultimately pointless and usually changes nothing in the end. By taking what I said in that last paragraph seriously, you proved my point even moreso. So I thank you.  

Heh, for tradition's sake, I still think the D5 should've blasted the NX-01 away faster than you could blink (tell me that in nanoseconds and it should have been that fast).  

 

CIV    

[Alidar Jarok]

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(expects this line to be commented on as well)

What makes you say that?

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Heh, for tradition's sake, I still think the D5 should've blasted the NX-01 away faster than you could blink

Kill that ¢r@ppy Hu-Man Ship

Edit:  Cr@ppy turns into a link? (automatically gets [ email ] [ /email ] tags)

[ChamadaIV]

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(expects this line to be commented on as well)

What makes you say that?

You'll have to excuse me, but as it turns out, Tremok's not the first one I've criticized for doing line-by-line commenting. It happens all the time, I've done it myself before. It's a good way to respond to a person's posts. It just annoys me sometimes, that's all. As my ex-girl used to say "Just deal with it." Well, I am.

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Heh, for tradition's sake, I still think the D5 should've blasted the NX-01 away faster than you could blink

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Kill that ¢r@ppy Hu-Man Ship

Edit:  Cr@ppy turns into a link? (automatically gets [ email ] [ /email ] tags)

No kidding. Sounds
Post Preview: Whoa. Now there's an anomoly worth noting. Somebody should ask Dave Farrell what's up with that. Not that its a problem or anything.    

EDIT: Hey wait. It's nothing, just the @ symbol tricking the forum engine into thinking its an email address, ie <a href="mailto:username@domain.com">Cr@ppy">Cr@ppy</a> to me.

Post Preview: Whoa. Now there's an anomoly worth noting. Somebody should ask Dave Farrell what's up with that. Not that its a problem or anything.    

EDIT: Hey wait. It's nothing, just the @ symbol tricking the forum engine into thinking its an email address, ie <a href="mailto:username@domain.com

[ChamadaIV]

Sweet jesus...the BB Code in that last post went nuts. Oh well, you can decipher it for yourself. LOL

[Tremok]

I see you rather enjoy dissecting other people's words as they are written with line-by-line analysis summed up in just a few words/phrases/sentences.

 Absolutely.  

Annoying, but understandable (expects this line to be commented on as well).

 Don't worry, I won't waste my time.  

If you thought that last part about the torpedoes and the Valdore vs Sovereign was a serious argument, then you are woefully mistaken. I was merely proving a point by what I said earlier just to show others how pointless and silly these Trek discussions are (I get caught in the trap myself time and time again, and I expect I will yet again in the future).

 Call it whatever you want, sir. I find it throughly enjoyable.  

They are fun and sometimes insightful, but ultimately pointless and usually changes nothing in the end. By taking what I said in that last paragraph seriously, you proved my point even moreso. So I thank you.  

 Your welcome. I think. As for why I took the statement in question seriously, pick,

1. I find the said statement to be as reasonable as some other arguments that you have made,
2. Its very hard to pick up sarcasm from text (you usually have to lay it on very thick)
3. Both

 


Heh, for tradition's sake, I still think the D5 should've blasted the NX-01 away faster than you could blink (tell me that in nanoseconds and it should have been that fast).  

 Life does indeed suck doesn't?

Truer words...    

[ChamadaIV]

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I see you rather enjoy dissecting other people's words as they are written with line-by-line analysis summed up in just a few words/phrases/sentences.

 Absolutely.  

How delightfully typical...my turn then.

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Annoying, but understandable (expects this line to be commented on as well).

 Don't worry, I won't waste my time.  

Maybe I should've said "I expect you won't even bother." OR "(Insert lame/arrogant comment here)"

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If you thought that last part about the torpedoes and the Valdore vs Sovereign was a serious argument, then you are woefully mistaken. I was merely proving a point by what I said earlier just to show others how pointless and silly these Trek discussions are (I get caught in the trap myself time and time again, and I expect I will yet again in the future).

 Call it whatever you want, sir. I find it throughly enjoyable.  

Well that is good. Ignorance is bliss I suppose. *sigh* I guess I'll join you then. I suppose I should tell you that your history on Rom ships isn't nearly as complete or historical as it should have been. As far as acuracy, it was good except ... your judgements about the BoP's capabilities (the one shown on ENT). They are derived from pure supposition and has yet to be determined by canon (because there is insufficient canon material on this BoP as of yet). To not let this be a one-sided ad hominem, my views on the D5's capabilities are also derived from prior Treknowledge and yes, supposition as well. Opinions we have, written facts we do not (as far as I can tell that is).

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They are fun and sometimes insightful, but ultimately pointless and usually changes nothing in the end. By taking what I said in that last paragraph seriously, you proved my point even moreso. So I thank you.  

 Your welcome. I think. As for why I took the statement in question seriously, pick,

1. I find the said statement to be as reasonable as some other arguments that you have made,
2. Its very hard to pick up sarcasm from text (you usually have to lay it on very thick)
3. Both

 

So that statement seemed valid to you when compared to what we have discussed before. Damn, too bad we couldn't chat in person. I'd say it so that you could catch the sarcasm. It is indeed wise to see the forest for the trees, but sometimes its necessary to see it for more than what it really is. You don't have to hear my words actually, but if you drew the clues from the context of my words, then you would understand.

Did you get that, or should I repeat it again?

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Heh, for tradition's sake, I still think the D5 should've blasted the NX-01 away faster than you could blink (tell me that in nanoseconds and it should have been that fast).  

 Life does indeed suck doesn't?

Truer words...    

No, its not Life that sucks per se, only the people that try to make it suck for those who don't want it that way.      

[Tremok]

Maybe I should've said "I expect you won't even bother." OR "(Insert lame/arrogant comment here)"

 Perhaps you should of. *shrug*  

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If you thought that last part about the torpedoes and the Valdore vs Sovereign was a serious argument, then you are woefully mistaken. I was merely proving a point by what I said earlier just to show others how pointless and silly these Trek discussions are (I get caught in the trap myself time and time again, and I expect I will yet again in the future).

 Call it whatever you want, sir. I find it throughly enjoyable.  

Well that is good. Ignorance is bliss I suppose. *sigh* I guess I'll join you then.

 I am corrupting you eh?  

I suppose I should tell you that your history on Rom ships isn't nearly as complete or historical as it should have been.

 Thanks for telling me. So, what should I have done different.  

As far as acuracy, it was good except ... your judgements about the BoP's capabilities (the one shown on ENT). They are derived from pure supposition and has yet to be determined by canon (because there is insufficient canon material on this BoP as of yet).

 I've made my case for the Early BoP. Seeing who you don't actually try to disprove me, but simply say I am wrong, I take it as matter that you simply don't agree. Fair enough.  

To not let this be a one-sided ad hominem, my views on the D5's capabilities are also derived from prior Treknowledge and yes, supposition as well. Opinions we have, written facts we do not (as far as I can tell that is).

 Yes, we both made our cases for the D5.  

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They are fun and sometimes insightful, but ultimately pointless and usually changes nothing in the end. By taking what I said in that last paragraph seriously, you proved my point even moreso. So I thank you.  

 

So that statement seemed valid to you when compared to what we have discussed before.

 Might just be me. *shrug*  

Damn, too bad we couldn't chat in person. I'd say it so that you could catch the sarcasm.
It is indeed wise to see the forest for the trees, but sometimes its necessary to see it for more than what it really is. You don't have to hear my words actually, but if you drew the clues from the context of my words, then you would understand.

 One person makes a statement on the web being serious, another makes an exact same statement but is being sarcastic.

I find it too much of a headache to try to discern when people are being sarcastic or not. I just everything seriously.