Topic: no news is NOT good news... (Read 8455 times)

DONOTDELETE · « **Reply #40 on:** April 12, 2003, 02:37:29 pm »

Heh.....hey I got some gas to throw on this pire....

Dont EVER mistake Paramounts gracious attitude tword fan art as an industry standard....

To those who think they can use anyones intellectual property for any reason they see fit I have a challenge for you....

Make a 3D mesh of Mickey Mouse and try and sell it on E-bay...

Disney corp is well known to be THE most aggressive company when protecting its IP.......and they will be all over your ass....whether you claim you only charging your "labor" or not...

That being said.....IMHO ..anyone who would pay anything for a game model is a fool....

Anthony_Scott · « **Reply #41 on:** April 12, 2003, 09:07:46 pm »

You tell him, Cleeve! I have only been part of this community for a short time but I can already see those who have selflessly shared their talents and resources to making the game and model collections far better than the stock ships in the playability. I also can read the jelousy thinly disquised as "legal opinion" and also read alot of words by the same type of person that thinks they know better than the rest of us.
Without you and other unselfish artists who tak time from your busy lives to advise, tutor, and create such beautiful models which ALWAYS contain disclaimers and proper copyright notices our gameplay would still have to put up with models that look like something my nephew could do in 5 minutes. Without the likes of you and your work, I would hide my ship models in my HD. In my own small way I thank you and the other artists.
If you think that you can do better, then put your skills to the test and MAKE something! I am taking a course in graphic design for that very reason and have downloaded all available tutorials and one day will do a ship of my own.

heh, sorry for the long post but this whole thing has annoyed me more than any other topic because I see good people being bashed for no better reason than being naive and opionated enough to know something but certainly not smart or knowledgeable enough to say anything useful, like those "experts" who predicted such dire consequences in one endeavour or another in the hopes that they are right.

Keep up the good work, Cleeve and others and pay no attention to upstarts.

Cleeve · « **Reply #42 on:** April 13, 2003, 03:39:28 pm »

For those of you who have put in a kind word, I thank you for the show of solidarity.

Be well,

DONOTDELETE · « **Reply #43 on:** April 13, 2003, 03:50:28 pm »

Hello Cleeve,

Best wishes,
Thanks a million for your one-of-kind STARYARDS
http://www.staryards.com/
"All Roads lead to Cleeves' STARYARDS!"

Frankly, I don't know why you didn't do the "freelance" starship building sooner,
Your stuff is extraordinarly professional my friend,

Thanks alot for getting me into 3D Modding,
You da man!

Take care,

GeneralWolfe

Quote:

For those of you who have put in a kind word, I thank you for the show of solidarity.

Be well,

FPF_TraceyG · « **Reply #46 on:** April 14, 2003, 08:50:09 am »

By the way, www.staryards.com has always been one of my favorite ship model sites, and I missed it sorely when it wasnt online. I check staryards regularly for updates and new models. Many thanks, Cleeve.

Raven Night · « **Reply #48 on:** April 14, 2003, 10:17:21 am »

Well well, looks like you guys have been busy...............

Why do people take so much offense to someone selling thier models? I pay to have all of my models made........ALL OF THEM. I design them, I pay for someone to build them. And mods. And missions. Nightsoft has invested over 1500 dollars in this community, as well as others connected to Star Trek to date. I do not see how this hurts the community. We buy the models, mods, missions, and release them for free. We have them made exactly to our specifications, and release them as public property to be kitbashed by anyone that desires to do so.

I have found it amusing that some have told me that what I do is illegal. We have gone through great pains to make sure we are insulated from legal action, so I can assure everyone what we do is not violating ANY copyright laws.

That said, do we buy or sanction canon models? No. Those designs are protected by three specific copyrights.........a Design copyright, Concept copyright, and here is the kicker.............an Intellectual copyright.

Can Paramount pull the plug on any design based on these copyrights? Yes. Will they? Unlikely.

Three no no's that will get you in trouble.

Sell the models on the same site you sell pornography
Claim that you are an official representative of the owner or you have permission to make it
Make a HUGE amount................one worthy notice, like more than 30,000 a year.

Any of the three would get thier attention.

I don't see how the likes of Cleeve or P-81 hurt or help the community in any non-repairable way. They are both fantastic past, present and future contributers to the community, and I do not see the harm in what they are doing. The community will be here long after they are just a memory.

At one time SFC modding revolved around three sites...........Alpha Quadrant, SFBtoSFC and NEWSHIPS...........my original site. Well, I left, BBarr dropped out and Cromwell became busy. Did the community die? No...............

It thrived.

The likes of APOC, Chris Jones Mods, Fleetdock13, Omega Staryards.........do I need to go on? We left, others came in to fill the void.

Then some of them left...........everyone said SFC would die without APOC..........again, it survived. And it will survive this.

Just let them do what they want. There will be plenty giving away mods, and there are lot's of Cleeves and P-81's on the horizon. Be calm, have fun, and most of all...............

........stay tuned.

Chris Jones · « **Reply #50 on:** April 14, 2003, 08:50:08 pm »

I support Rick, Cleeve, and the gang. If you have ever seen a mesh in Max or Milkshape then you know how much patience and time goes into a model. They all have made my gaming much more enjoyable, for about 3 years now. I can make a square, lol. Seriously, Rick and Cleeve made some models for OP. Damn good ones, I thought. I am sure they have thought out any legal ramifications, if any, and I wish them all the best in thier quest for the $. If I can help you guys in any way, let me know.

A plug for LB as well. I have put some of his work on sfc3files, and he's getting mega downloads and awesome comments. I consider Rick, Cleeve, LB the Vets of SFC.

This inspires me to start a modeler appreciation thread. Good idea, Chris!

L_B · « **Reply #51 on:** April 14, 2003, 09:25:41 pm »

Well, thats fine and dandy that some of you feel this way. I believe that if you are this passionate about the selling of models, so much so as to take an innocent thread and turn it into a flame war, then maybe you should go work at Paramount's legal department. I bet they are just LOOKING for you. Yes its true, that I have joined the team at www.staryards.com Cleeve welcomed me with open arms and a smile on his face. why? because he knows that I am an honest to God hard worker who will give upo the time for the greater good. Like for www.staryards.com , this is Cleeves "greater good" for the people who love Star Trek. www.staryards.com is a place to go to see your dream come to a reality. www.staryards.com is an adventure of both the mind, and of the soul, people can take their designs to us that they have poured their souls and hearts into and for a small fee to cover the time we spend making them (our free time), they can have what they have always wanted. I think that what we are doing at www.staryards.com is nothing short of brilliant. and not to mention affordable. try going to a cgi company and see how much they charge you for a model, I gaurantee its alot more than we ask.

I honestly dont see the problem, we have spent years tuning our skills at this, and why shouldnt our time be worth something? we are spending our free time that we could be spending with our families to offer this service at www.staryards.com

is it so wrong to make some extra money with my skills that i may be able to provide better for my family? Or for Rick to? or for Cleeve to? what some people fail to realise is that these are not replicas of Paramounts ships, also, how can we be hurting Paramount? also, how are we financially hurting them by selling our time to make the models that they themselves dont even sell? I have never seen Paramount sell a CG model. so there is no money being taken out of their pockets right?

anyway, what I am trying to say is that at www.staryards.com we simply charge for our time to private contractees, nothing more, nothing less. and as many people that have businesses of their own have said..."time is money"

FPF_TraceyG · « **Reply #52 on:** April 14, 2003, 11:56:28 pm »

Just to finish off something I began earlier, and following up on something somebody else.
If someone offers a 'service' and is 'contracted' to provide that service, which upon completion they are paid for their labour costs, and, the product of that service becomes the property of the contarctor, AND, the contractor then chooses to distribute that product for no profit at all ( from what I can gather, this is the case with www.staryards.com ), then neither is this harmful or damaging to the community (in fact, it does the community a great service), nor does it breach any copyright laws (as no money is actually made). Furthermore, it improves the quality of the fan-based material and I think we should all be thanking those who spend their time and efforts to promote a product which ultimately can only enhance the playing experience. I can find no where on www.staryards.com where you have to pay to download a ship model, which renders any argument about selling models academic.

sandman69247 · « **Reply #53 on:** April 15, 2003, 12:32:29 am »

Well, if I'm an enemy of the state, it's pretty sad. I spent 2 years in the Army, got hurt and medically discharged (without any pension or money as they said it was a problem I had before enlisting), and if I want to sell my services and skills (not that I'm good enough yet), then by God, that's what I'm going to do.

If you don't want to pay for a model to put in the game, then it's real simple...DON'T! This is all such a bunch of bullsh*t! Get over it already! There are plenty of modelers here that offer their models for free, that you shouldn't have any trouble finding what you want. If the quality isn't to your liking, then tough. The modelers who are at the stage of their work that they are in demand are the ones you are bitching about selling their work. You want their stuff, then pay 'em. SIMPLE!!

God, please save us from FOOLS!

As Kid Rock sings; "They say I'm cocky and I say what? It aint braggin' if you do it and you back it up!" And, by God, Cleeve, LB and P81 definitely back it up.

DONOTDELETE · « **Reply #54 on:** April 15, 2003, 08:33:56 am »

Hello sandman69247,

"Enemy-of-the-state" you?
Haa,
Never,
You are one of the kindest, most open and honest people here, my friend.
The above title "Tis my baliwicke"

Anyways, in my opinion, what anyone does here is their own business,
P81, Cleeve, and -LB- are only helping the SFC community, and I support them.

Take care,

GeneralWolfe

James Formo · « **Reply #55 on:** April 15, 2003, 10:56:46 am »

not ssure where the enimies of the state came from. I have not read all 55 posts but I gather that this thread is about charging for models. So far not a problem. I just worry about slippery slope. Where if an elite modelers models are worth say 100 dollars. Could be that soon there are a dozen modelers charging. Hmm maybe mine are worth 5 dollars then.

Then soon the forum is nothing more then spam with links to pay sites.

The game might not be a game any more but just a business. Sure it already is a business for Taldren. That has to be but SFC popularity may be its own undoing.

I kinda believe that my view will not be popular. But if I was here because of my popularity I would have left 6 months ago.

Captain KoraH · « **Reply #56 on:** April 15, 2003, 12:04:44 pm »

I'm cooincidentally making a habit of following Tracey around the forums

But I have to say that she has hit on a good point here, I think Cleeve and the gang at www.staryards.com should post the models they make on the site for all to enjoy. While some models are undoubtedly a matter of the originator's taste, I'm sure that with the skills that are at work there, any model they make for SFC will be awesome. I say this with total disreagrd for all the other crap that my thread here has spawned. I just think those models they make will be really awesome and I'd like to see them on the site.

anduril · « **Reply #58 on:** April 15, 2003, 04:26:19 pm »

Actually James this thread was about the lack of new model posts.

Chris Johnson made the forgivable sin of bringing up Rick.

Everytime that happens the trolls who languish in the eddy currents caused by his presence get stirred up and look for reasons to go off and lay out the world as they see it. Then they go to great lengths to perpetuate their point of view long after there is any interest in it in the name of justifying themselves and proving to the world that they are correct. Unfortunately they fail to realize the interest in their point ceased the moment they hit the submit button.

Once the all-know-it-all arm chair lawyers started the point of the thread vanished and was mutated into this monstrosity.

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