Topic: no news is NOT good news...  (Read 8402 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Captain KoraH

  • Guest
no news is NOT good news...
« on: April 10, 2003, 11:23:51 am »
Aren't there any new models coming out anymore? If I had a download center I'd start releasing mine, maybe someone can donate?

CaptainTombs

  • Guest
Re: no news is NOT good news...
« Reply #1 on: April 10, 2003, 11:28:41 am »
there are some in the works like Raven's Furious and many people are working on there own pet projects

ChrisJohnson

  • Guest
Re: no news is NOT good news...
« Reply #2 on: April 10, 2003, 12:36:31 pm »
Pneumonic81's latest work in Frost Works:

http://www.frost-works.com/sts/images/con1.jpg
http://www.frost-works.com/sts/images/con2.jpg
http://www.frost-works.com/sts/images/con3.jpg
http://www.frost-works.com/sts/images/con4.jpg

He said he was contracted for this.  Who thought greed didn't look this good? j/k   He says the mesh is incomplete, so far standing around 7,000 Polygons.
 IMHO, I still like Khaliban's mesh better though, close to the real thing!

Update - Textures added:

http://www.frost-works.com/sts/images/con5.jpg
http://www.frost-works.com/sts/images/con6.jpg
http://www.frost-works.com/sts/images/con7.jpg
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 06:00:00 pm by ChrisJohnson »

anduril

  • Guest
Re: no news is NOT good news...
« Reply #3 on: April 10, 2003, 12:59:35 pm »
He was refering to no models coming out here.  As in SFC.

morebs

  • Guest
Re: no news is NOT good news...
« Reply #4 on: April 10, 2003, 01:25:30 pm »
Quote:

Pneumonic81's latest work in Frost Works:

http://www.frost-works.com/sts/images/con1.jpg
http://www.frost-works.com/sts/images/con2.jpg
http://www.frost-works.com/sts/images/con3.jpg
http://www.frost-works.com/sts/images/con4.jpg

He said he was contracted for this.  Who thought greed didn't look this good? j/k   He says the mesh is incomplete, so far standing around 7,000 Polygons.
 IMHO, I still like Khaliban's mesh better though, close to the real thing!




That mesh looks ok if it had 4000 polies but for 7000 it sucks. Apparently people who release ships not made by p81 do not count as ships.

I bet that p81 ship looks 10 times better rendered in max then it ever will in game.  There is no way in hell it will be worth 200 dollars.  People have released better ships for free. Tired of these dam forums being his personal advertisement. P81 also is nothing more than a dam troll when he is not meshing.

Lt. Cmdr Worf

  • Guest
Re: no news is NOT good news...
« Reply #5 on: April 10, 2003, 01:53:13 pm »
Who the hell do you think you are Morebs?  P-81 was releasing models while your grandfather was still wearing diapers!! He's a legend around here.  I think that newest Constitution Refit is the best he's ever done.  So before you go off making comments about people, learn who your talking about beforehand.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 06:00:00 pm by Lt. Cmdr Worf »

Brad Bowermaster

  • Guest
Re: no news is NOT good news...
« Reply #6 on: April 10, 2003, 01:54:34 pm »
Both him and Cleeve are doing it: http://www.staryards.com/Contracts.htm

anduril

  • Guest
Re: no news is NOT good news...
« Reply #7 on: April 10, 2003, 02:07:43 pm »
Do not feed the trolls.

Simple thing to remember.
 

morebs

  • Guest
Re: no news is NOT good news...
« Reply #8 on: April 10, 2003, 02:20:47 pm »
Quote:

Who the hell do you think you are Morebs?  P-81 was releasing models while your grandfather was still wearing diapers!! He's a legend around here.  I think that newest Constitution Refit is the best he's ever done.  So before you go off making comments about people, learn who your talking about beforehand.  




I seen p81s early ships. Not that good. He is getting better though. The reason there are few new ships is because no one cares unless it was made by p81. Now he charges for his ships so unless you rich your stuck using ones made by others.

I think that is fine because many are just as good or better and are free. Too bad p81 has to discourage new modelers. Perhaps he does not want them to cut into his profit margin.  What he does is illegal. He makes money by using paramounts designs and does not share profits with them.
 

Marauth

  • Guest
Re: no news is NOT good news...
« Reply #9 on: April 10, 2003, 03:54:09 pm »
2 simple words, I wanted to type. Unfortnately I like being a member of these forums so:

F**k you!

Now for the serious part, P81's 'early' ships, like his first Ambassador kitbash for Armada were obviously not very good - no one can just start modelling and be a master at it, it takes time and practice, I'd like to see some of the pieces of art that you've contributed to these games; you haven't so you can't. People around here don't care about P81 ships anymore because thanks to trolls like you he left the forums a long time ago and has never really gotten back into free modelling. His work is his copyright, not yours, not mine, not anyone on these forums, and not Paramounts, as long as he is not making a replica of the CG mesh Paramount has then he's pretty safe from dicks who think people selling their own work is illegal. Further don't even try and suggest that his work once released should be free domain becase any piece of work created by anyone instantly becomes their copyright, no forms need to be filled out, no nothing.

Lastly - get lost you buthole, and come back once you've got a half decent attitude (or not at all if you can't manage that mighty feat of etiquette.)

ChrisJohnson

  • Guest
Re: no news is NOT good news...
« Reply #10 on: April 10, 2003, 04:02:31 pm »
Ugh... Not again. *sigh* I want to bang my head on the wall over and over and over...

Though I did say that he was, I didn't really care much that he was contracted to do such.  And P81 does a good job with his ships.  I'd like to see his work for release for SFC2 and 3.  I admire his work, and mabye not his ways, but he's still a good person and a talented one at that (as is everyone, especially the modelers here).  One thing I didn't like was P81 and others posting their work on Frost Works and not Taldren too, so I post the WIP pics here to help foil their plan to lure away the plot of Taldreneers in the Taldren forum migrating to Frost Works and not comin' back.  But still, I like them.  I don't want flame wars going on.  So people, stop this now.  This all began because I thought Korah wanted some modeling news so I thought I brought a tiny bit of hope to him.  Turns out I was a bit mistaken as Anduril corrected me, and then the match was lit and thrown into a puddle of Gasoline I spilled.  I'd love it now for someone to extinguish it.

anduril

  • Guest
Re: no news is NOT good news...
« Reply #11 on: April 10, 2003, 04:06:56 pm »
And people continue feeding the trolls.

Marauth

  • Guest
Re: no news is NOT good news...
« Reply #12 on: April 10, 2003, 04:10:53 pm »
My apologies Anduril. I have to admit that I was in a bad mood and needed to vent, that troll was the closest thing at hand that wouldn't end in me needing to buy a new keyboard...

morebs

  • Guest
Re: no news is NOT good news...
« Reply #13 on: April 10, 2003, 04:18:36 pm »
Quote:

Ugh... Not again. *sigh* I want to bang my head on the wall over and over and over...

Though I did say that he was, I didn't really care much that he was contracted to do such.  And P81 does a good job with his ships.  I'd like to see his work for release for SFC2 and 3.  I admire his work, and mabye not his ways, but he's still a good person and a talented one at that (as is everyone, especially the modelers here).  One thing I didn't like was P81 and others posting their work on Frost Works and not Taldren too, so I post the WIP pics here to help foil their plan to lure away the plot of Taldreneers in the Taldren forum migrating to Frost Works and not comin' back.  But still, I like them.  I don't want flame wars going on.  So people, stop this now.  This all began because I thought Korah wanted some modeling news so I thought I brought a tiny bit of hope to him.  Turns out I was a bit mistaken as Anduril corrected me, and then the match was lit and thrown into a puddle of Gasoline I spilled.  I'd love it now for someone to extinguish it.  




I extinguish it here and now. I did express how I felt and did not use any profanity at all. I just notice that there are people that build ships that are better than P81 early ones. All they get for it is flamed because everyone expects professional quality now.  

P81 left these forums not because of trolls but because of money. There will always, always be trolls.   He may have used trolls as an excuse, but the fact is he was one himself from time to time.  He used to be cool, but since everyone started to worship him it went to his head.

Vampire- since P81 now charges 200 bucks for his ships. Maybe you should worry more about p81 driving  other modelers out.  If you want to pay that for a ship its fine with me. I never said anything against you so why you flame me I do not understand. I am sure P81 reads this forum and can type for himself.

Reliant37

  • Guest
Re: no news is NOT good news...
« Reply #14 on: April 10, 2003, 04:36:35 pm »
Concerning law... in this case copyright law... P81 can design his own ships and sell them for a profit. No problem there. It only becomes a problem when he takes a copyrighted design, in this case the Enterprise from Star Trek (owned by Paramount Pictures), makes a model of it based on that design and which is automatically identified as, in this case, said Enterprise, and then asks people to pay him for it. By doing this, he is making money out of someone else's design, regardless of how much work he has put in it. Without a licence from Paramount to do so, P81 is committing a felony--if indeed he is asking money for his Enterprise model.

As I said, these problems would not exist had he designed something original, which didn't exist yet, and then asked money for it.

An example might clarify this, as some people here obviously have a problem understanding this. Take, for instance, a novel that you've written. It is entirely original: you came up with the story, the characters, and so on. All typed on your trusty computer. Now you want to make money of it, as is your right, by publishing it. You do that, and a few months down the line you happen across a website that is selling your novel. You recognise it instantly. This guy has ripped off your book and is selling it at a profit, without asking you, let alone cutting you in. Enraged, you e-mail him, and he replies dryly that he can do whatever he wants since, after all, he copied the novel by hand, using a quill and writing it on parchment. That was a lot of work, and he deserves to be paid, right? Wrong--it's not called "copyright" for nothing--only the original maker of a work owns the copyright of said work, i.e. the right to publish the thing at a time of his choosing, or to have it published. Authors retain inalienable rights, and no one is allowed to make money off of someone else's work, no matter how much effort went into the copies or derivative works based on the original.  

FPF_TraceyG

  • Guest
Re: no news is NOT good news...
« Reply #15 on: April 10, 2003, 07:25:35 pm »
My two cents worth...
P81 is under contract, not a license. That is, once he completes his work, he is paid for his labour and the work itself becomes the property of the contractor. Any breach of copyright then, falls on the contractor and its their responsibility to ensure that isnt the case.

On a second note, making models and selling them at a price that exceeds the current price of the game itself by an order of magnitude would not appear to be an economically viable prospect.

On a third note, whilst P81 is at liberty to charge for his labour, the content as has been pointed out is already owned by someone else, to do so in this medium is counterproductive, in my opinion. Why? Because as a community, whether it be mission scripting, ship modelling, fiction writing etc. we do it because we enjoy it, we want to make a contribution to the community that others can share in and enjoy as well, and add value to something which we think is worthwhile. Once this becomes tainted by market economics, it is debased to little more than just another capitalistic venture which eventually becomes only a chase for profit. As an example, look at any world sporting arena, I'll use an Australian example, Aussie Rules Football. It began as a game where clubs got together purely for its enjoyment over 100 years ago. There was absolutely no money involved and was primarily a social activity. Now, it is nothing but big buisiness. Such is the corporate paradigm, profit takes priority, and people are inevitably shunted to a distant second place. I think our values are completely screwed up when money is offered as an excuse for not raising the quality of life. eg. a Shelter for the homeless that is shutdown due to lack of government funding. On the other hand, we cant simply bleed the coffers dry because its the right thing to do either, someone has to pay for it. What's the solution? Simply put, there isn't one whilst market economics and capitalism determine supply of basic services. In order to have rich people, you must have poor people. Altruism is anathema in modern society, and nobody does anything unless they expect a return or profit anymore. I seemed to have digressed slightly here...

In economic terms, to increase the price of a product that has no elasticity, spells the death of that product. In this case, fan created starship models that were previously free to the public and are now being charged for, will simply result in a much lower demand for that product. The end result is that no one gains much benfit at all and becomes a worthless venture. That's not the direction I'd like to see this community head in.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 06:00:00 pm by Tracey Greenough »

Azel

  • Guest
Re: no news is NOT good news...
« Reply #16 on: April 10, 2003, 10:27:20 pm »
I have a ton of meshes
In Milkshape and LW
but they need to be textured and converted...if anyones interested...  

Azel

  • Guest
Re: no news is NOT good news...
« Reply #17 on: April 10, 2003, 10:41:03 pm »
Hey Capt. Korah...that was for you and your question...of models(new)
Holla... if you want to check some out:)  

Captain KoraH

  • Guest
Re: no news is NOT good news...
« Reply #18 on: April 11, 2003, 02:46:10 am »
Well I never dreamed my little post about new models coming out would turn into a flame war...


I think the stuff about contracts and everything is off the point. Staryards has a place where you can go and hire a model maker to make a model out of your drawings. That's what P81 and Cleeve are doing. No reason to get upset everyone. Nobody is going to sell any models. Geez... Personally I think it's a nice way to give to the community, not take from them. How many people have sat and stared at their drawings wishing they could make an SFC model out of them, but didn't have the time/ patience/ software/ ect/ ect/ ect to do so? Probly a lot. They are doing us a favor, not an injustice. Let's all cool down now...

TraceyG, I can't wait to do that interview with you. Every time I see posts from you I think, "Wow, that chic has got her [censored] together! I need to get her in the Brig for an interview!" No offence intended. Went to party tonight, drank much beer, maybe not the best time to post on the forums...  



 

Reliant37

  • Guest
Re: no news is NOT good news...
« Reply #19 on: April 11, 2003, 06:20:37 am »
Quote:

Well I never dreamed my little post about new models coming out would turn into a flame war...




No flaming intended.

Tracey Greenough, it doesn't matter that he's under contract--he's the one offering his services at a fee. Both he and the contractor could be held responsible for copyright violations. More information below...

Quote:

I think the stuff about contracts and everything is off the point. Staryards has a place where you can go and hire a model maker to make a model out of your drawings. That's what P81 and Cleeve are doing. No reason to get upset everyone. Nobody is going to sell any models.




That's not the impression I have. Just a few posts ago, someone said P81 would sell his model of the Enterprise--a design that is OWNED by Paramount Pictures--for $200. Like I said in my earlier post, it's okay to ask money for your services provided you don't do so at the (creative/financial) EXPENSE of someone else. That is, it's okay to ask people to pay you for an original design, but it's ILLEGAL to ask people to pay you for someone else's design WITHOUT asking the original owner's permission. That is an important point, because if Paramount (or Activision) finds out, they might just decide to PULL THE PLUG on Star Trek mods altogether.

Does anyone here remember when Viacom (the company that owns Paramount) went on a killing spree a few years ago, shutting down a plethora of fan sites for copyright violations? The reason for that was the fact that the internet had become bigger than they had ever imagined, with sites offering entire episodes up for download. It was, they argued, hurting them financially. If P81, or anyone else for that matter, starts asking MONEY for designs OWNED by Paramount/Viacom, no matter how much work they put into the models, then Viacom just might decide to start shutting down sites that offer mods for SFC, Bridge Commander, or any other game, on the grounds that asking money for such mods is simply ILLEGAL, and could irreparably damage the mod community.

Quote:

Geez... Personally I think it's a nice way to give to the community, not take from them.




Like I said, if Paramount/Viacom/Activision finds out that stuff like this is happening, they'll be shutting down sites in no time.

Quote:

How many people have sat and stared at their drawings wishing they could make an SFC model out of them, but didn't have the time/ patience/ software/ ect/ ect/ ect to do so? Probly a lot. They are doing us a favor, not an injustice. Let's all cool down now...




Original models: YES. Copyrighted models (i.e. everything you see on TV, in official games, in the movies, the comic books, and so on): NO, that would be ILLEGAL.

Does everyone finally understand why asking money for an unlicenced, unauthorised Enterprise model is illegal and could HURT the community?