Topic: New Klingon ship: The D5 Battlecruiser

[Maxillius]

BortaS wasn't trying to destroy Enterprise, she was trying to disable her enough to board and take the refugees, possibly even scout/take the ship.

[ChamadaIV]

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Why didn't the D5's shots destroy Enterprise right away?

#1:  Their AV was too high!
#2:  Mayweather can Evasive Maneuvers like nobody's business!  

Heh, but #2 is invalid as it was clearly shown that Enterprise was hit several times. So much for EM tactics...

I guess those disruptors were half the power of the weakest disruptors available in SFC. Or it was distance factor (the power from the shots dissapated as they traveled towards NX-01), OR it was the writers who cared more about the story and less about the technology and decided it was prudent to show that the ship survived the incident so that they could rescue Archer and still have a ship to carry the show on with (it's no good to destroy your starring ship and cast...hey wait, didn't NBC destroy the seaQuest a couple of times and still had a show going?).

Heh, that's what they should do: destroy the ship. The NCC-1701 went down in ST III, the 1701-C was blown away by Romulans, 1701-D went down after the Nexus incident, and the 1701-E got beat up real bad in ST Nemesis. It's a tradition of mayhem and destruction on the BigE. But just because you kill the ship doesn't mean the crew has to die either. At least this will give Paramount an excuse to give Archer a better ship that could withstand shots from a D5 more believably.  

[La'ra]

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 In Enterprise the K'tinga is suppose to be a brand new ship, while the the D5 is old and worn out.    

Assuming that the battlecruiser in 'Unexpected' was a K'tinga class is rather silly.  We've seen that the Klingons tend to stick with the same hull designs, so it's likely an older, smaller, ancestor of the D7's and the K'tinga-class.  

[Tremok]

Assuming that the battlecruiser in 'Unexpected' was a K'tinga class is rather silly.  We've seen that the Klingons tend to stick with the same hull designs, so it's likely an older, smaller, ancestor of the D7's and the K'tinga-class.  

 Nitpicky aren't you? Did you actually believe when I said K'tinga I was talking about the D-7 type seen in The Undiscovered Country? If so, I offer you many my pardons for my typographical errors.

I'll try to remember to call it the D-7 type for now on.    

[La'ra]

 

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 Nitpicky aren't you?

When it comes to ships, RL or sci-fi, I am.  Very much so, in fact.

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Did you actually believe when I said K'tinga I was talking about the D-7 type seen in The Undiscovered Country? If so, I offer you many my pardons for my typographical errors.

If you had meant that, you certainly wouldn't have been the first.  

[Tulmahk]

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Heh, but #2 is invalid as it was clearly shown that Enterprise was hit several times. So much for EM tactics...

As you know, EM doesn't only make the ship harder to hit, but reduces the damage done when it does get hit (just like AV).  

[Tremok]

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 Nitpicky aren't you?

When it comes to ships, RL or sci-fi, I am.  Very much so, in fact.

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Did you actually believe when I said K'tinga I was talking about the D-7 type seen in The Undiscovered Country? If so, I offer you many my pardons for my typographical errors.

If you had meant that, you certainly wouldn't have been the first.    

 Well, rest assured, it was a simple typograpical error. You see, in my mind, the K'tinga is the generic name for all type D7s, and sometimes my hands just type out that name (K'tinga) without actually thinking what D7 type variant it is.      

[jimmi7769]

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 Nitpicky aren't you?

When it comes to ships, RL or sci-fi, I am.  Very much so, in fact.

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Did you actually believe when I said K'tinga I was talking about the D-7 type seen in The Undiscovered Country? If so, I offer you many my pardons for my typographical errors.

If you had meant that, you certainly wouldn't have been the first.    

 Well, rest assured, it was a simple typograpical error. You see, in my mind, the K'tinga is the generic name for all type D7s, and sometimes my hands just type out that name (K'tinga) without actually thinking what D7 type variant it is.      

D7 is Klodode class.  K'tinga is not a D7.  Just like an Enterprise class is not a Constitution class, though they look similar.

[Alidar Jarok]

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D7 is Klodode class.  K'tinga is not a D7.  Just like an Enterprise class is not a Constitution class, though they look similar.  

Where'd you hear of a Klodode class?

RE: Enterprise class

That's debatable

[wanderer]

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D7 is Klodode class.  K'tinga is not a D7.  Just like an Enterprise class is not a Constitution class, though they look similar.  

Where'd you hear of a Klodode class?

The only place where I have ever seen the 'Klolode Class' is from a non-canon source, "Starship Design" by Starstation Aurora, the same publication that brought us the K'Teremny. There is a picture of a Klingon cruiser from TOS that is labeled a "Klolode Class Battlecruiser". The K'teremny is described as "a further extension of the Raxor/Klolode/K'Tinga warship design."  

[Tremok]

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D7 is Klodode class.  K'tinga is not a D7.  Just like an Enterprise class is not a Constitution class, though they look similar.  

  Tremok says,"interesting" and pulls up favorite search engine.

 Tremok types Klodode class and hits search.

 Tremok gets all of nine hits, all having to do with SFB.

 Tremok thinks 'hmm'.  

[Karnak]

I never really pay too much detail to consistent ship references in Trek but more to consistent racial traits.  Notice how whenever an TNG, DS9, ST-movie involve the Klingons there is a lot of damage inflicted on the Feds.

For example:

1)  Star Trek 3:   Klingons lose a BoP and the Feds loses the Enterprise.  The one ship no one could destroy for the last 20 years.

2) Star Trek 6:  Klingon BoP knocks the new Enterprise around really good while fighting both the Enterprise and the Excalibur.

3)  Star Trek 9:  Klingons lose another BoP but the Enterprise-D makes a crash landing on Veridian.

4)  In the Dominion War, the Klingons do probably the most damage to the Jem'hdar and at one time had to protect the whole Federation cuz only their ships could repel Breen weaponry.

5) Klingons easily capture Captain Archer and put him on trial even if the D5 was blinded.

Basically, the Klingons don't have a vaunted warrior tradition for nothing. Any race that fights them will get knocked around real good.  Trading BoPs for Fed CAs and DNs sounds like a good trade to me.  

Oh yeah, let's not forget the poor Rommie weasels that are too afraid to fight in the open.  When they do it's a disaster:

6)  Star Trek 10:  Scimitar dead, 2xValdores dead, Fed DN still lives.

7)  D9 Episode where Roms/Cardies attack Dominion homeworld:  All Roms are dead.

9)  TOS "Balance of Terror":  Scratch one war-bird.

[Alidar Jarok]

A cloaked ship destroys a Klingon ship and they assume it had to be a Klingon who killed his own people, instead of assuming the Romulans were behind it.

Some honorable people.

Kill their own and nobody doubts it.

[Karnak]

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A cloaked ship destroys a Klingon ship and they assume it had to be a Klingon who killed his own people, instead of assuming the Romulans were behind it.

Some honorable people.

Kill their own and nobody doubts it.  

There are good Klingons and there are bad Klingons. Just like there are good Feds and bad Feds who collaborated with General Chang in Star Trek 6.

Adding to Klingon power list:

DS9 Way of the Warrior episodes:  Klingon Empire only needs to use 1/3 of their military, including lotsa vor'cha BCHs,  on an extended supply line to single-handedly put the Cardies back in the stone-age.  No wonder the Dominion so easiy manipulatied the spoon-heads.

[jimmi7769]

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D7 is Klodode class.  K'tinga is not a D7.  Just like an Enterprise class is not a Constitution class, though they look similar.  

  Tremok says,"interesting" and pulls up favorite search engine.

 Tremok types Klodode class and hits search.

 Tremok gets all of nine hits, all having to do with SFB.

 Tremok thinks 'hmm'.  

Actually where I got it from was the FASA Star Trek The Role Playing game.  Klingon Ship Recognition manual.
And not SFB.

[Alidar Jarok]

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6)  Star Trek 10:  Scimitar dead, 2xValdores dead, Fed DN still lives.

That's because they did too good of a job.  Self-destruct was disabled (so no victory like ST3).  It did a better job than the BoP in ST6 did.

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7)  D9 Episode where Roms/Cardies attack Dominion homeworld:  All Roms are dead.

Some survived and were captured.  Its not my fault that Klingons don't do anything "high-risk"

Here are some

Star Trek 3:
Klingon Bird of Prey captured without a fight

Star Trek 6:
Flagship of the Klingon Empire destroyed.
Chancellor Dead
Bird of Prey that can fire while cloaked destroyed

Star Trek 7:
D-12 destroyed due to faulty design

Day of the Dove:
D-7 destroyed because it was emmiting radiation and was a "Hazard"

[Karnak]

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Star Trek 6:
Flagship of the Klingon Empire destroyed.

??????

I would hardly call a D7W the flagship of the Empire. The ship was also not destoryed.

[Tremok]

I never really pay too much detail to consistent ship references in Trek but more to consistent racial traits.  Notice how whenever an TNG, DS9, ST-movie involve the Klingons there is a lot of damage inflicted on the Feds.

For example:

1)  Star Trek 3:   Klingons lose a BoP and the Feds loses the Enterprise.  The one ship no one could destroy for the last 20 years.

 Forget to mention that the Enterprise was stolen, way undermanned, and not at full combat readiness did you?  

2) Star Trek 6:  Klingon BoP knocks the new Enterprise around really good while fighting both the Enterprise and the Excalibur.

 End result: BoP dead, the Enterprise and Excelsior find and dandy. And while the Excelsior took a few good hits, it wasn't all that damaged.  

3)  Star Trek 9:  Klingons lose another BoP but the Enterprise-D makes a crash landing on Veridian.

 Only because the BoP used Romulan like subterfuge to gets Enterprise's shield frequency. And they still died. And how many torpedoes did it take to kill the BoP? Just one. The Enterprise took several photons and disruptor hits. And then it wouldn't have gone down if not for the lucky last shot plasma manifold hit.  

 

And how convient of you not to mention all the times the Enterprise has whacked Klingon ships upsided they head. DS9 really whooped that Klingon fleet didn't it? Also I must said I was impressed by the way the Defiant went threw Klingon ships like a hot knife through warm butter. Seems to me the Klingons didn't fare to well with the conflict against the Federation in the 2370s.  

4)  In the Dominion War, the Klingons do probably the most damage to the Jem'hdar and at one time had to protect the whole Federation cuz only their ships could repel Breen weaponry.

 Whatever. Show me a source that the Klingons did the best against the Jem'hadar. We DO know they did take the most casualties of the war.

And yes, they way the Klingons engineered their vessels made them immune to the Breen weapon, and they had hold the line until the Federation and Romulans had a time to refit. And Gowron handle it so poorly they have to overthrow him and get a new Chancellor.

Are you trying to make a point that Klingon engineering is superior to the Federations or Klingons or somesuch?

Edit: Also forgot about that Klingon fleet that went to Breen space and never returned.  

5) Klingons easily capture Captain Archer and put him on trial even if the D5 was blinded.

 That is a bit of an arrogant statemnent. We don't know if it was easy or not, since we don't know how they did it.

And you forgot to mention the part where the Enterprise DEFEATED the D5. It is true that the NX is not a match for Klingon ships of this period, and wasn't the equal of the D5. The Enterprise crew used their heads and what they had available to them to beat the D5 fair and square. They could of destroyed her if they wished, it was said so in the episode.    

Basically, the Klingons don't have a vaunted warrior tradition for nothing. Any race that fights them will get knocked around real good.  Trading BoPs for Fed CAs and DNs sounds like a good trade to me.  

Oh yeah, let's not forget the poor Rommie weasels that are too afraid to fight in the open.  When they do it's a disaster:

 Lets see. As you mentioned above,

1. Klingon ships beats up a stolen, undermanned and underpowered Enterprise.

2. Klingons use fire while cloak technology to attack Enterprise and the Excelsior. Klingon looses anyway.

2. Klingon uses subterfuge to find Enterprises shield frequency. Klingons loose anyway. (the Klingons all died, the Enterprise crew didn't).

See, its your very own Klingons that are using the cowardly subterfuge and cloak and daggar!  

6)  Star Trek 10:  Scimitar dead, 2xValdores dead, Fed DN still lives.

 Not because the three DNs bested the Scimitar in combat. Not all all, the Scimitar still had 70 percent shield strength when all the ships where disabled. The Scimitar died because Shinzon was stupid. Lets see,

1. He pulls up right in front of the Enterprise.

2. He keeps his cloak off.

3. He is so kind to even keep his shields off.

4. When the Enterprises starts comming to him, does he open fire with his weapons trying to knock out the impluse engines? No. Does he try to simply blow the ship to pieces when he realized he doesn't have time to disable her? No. Did he even try to lock on a tractor beam to keep the Enterprise away? No. He just stood there and let the Enterprise ram him.

And the two Valdores weren't killed. Severely damaged, yes, like the Enterprise was, but not killed.  

7)  D9 Episode where Roms/Cardies attack Dominion homeworld:  All Roms are dead.

 That was the Tal Shiar acting on their own. And it was a trap in the first place. Besides, the Dominion was beating around everyone at that time.

Nice of you  not to mention the Federation/Klingons would of lost the war if not for the Romulan entrance.  

9)  TOS "Balance of Terror":  Scratch one war-bird.

 The BoP probably wasn't as good of a ship as the Constitution. Even so, Kirk respected the Romulans and their ship.  
 

[Tremok]

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A cloaked ship destroys a Klingon ship and they assume it had to be a Klingon who killed his own people, instead of assuming the Romulans were behind it.

Some honorable people.

Kill their own and nobody doubts it.  

There are good Klingons and there are bad Klingons. Just like there are good Feds and bad Feds who collaborated with General Chang in Star Trek 6.

Adding to Klingon power list:

DS9 Way of the Warrior episodes:  Klingon Empire only needs to use 1/3 of their military, including lotsa vor'cha BCHs,  on an extended supply line to single-handedly put the Cardies back in the stone-age.  No wonder the Dominion so easiy manipulatied the spoon-heads.

 Almost as easily as the they did the Klingons huh (capturing Martok and replacing him with a changeling)?  

[Alidar Jarok]

The Qo'onos one wasn't the flag ship?

You might be right about it not being destroyed.

But it was the only ship to loose artificial gravity