Topic: New Klingon ship: The D5 Battlecruiser (Read 32905 times)

FPF_TraceyG · « **Reply #100 on:** April 10, 2003, 03:09:57 am »

Interesting... Paramount who hates all things Amarillo Design Bureau, and yet, where was the non-canon D5 ship classification first seen by fans anywhere? Well, Starfleet Battles of course... 20 years ago...
Curious...

Tremok · « **Reply #101 on:** April 10, 2003, 08:37:51 am »

Sure there's a big difference. An explorer class vs. a battlecruiser. Hmmm...let me see. One is built for science and exploration, the other made to kick ass in combat. Do you see where I'm going with this?

The actual designations of ship types really doesn't mean all that much. Everything the Klingons have is a battlecruiser. Also, Starfleet has a precedent of naming its largest, most powerful vessels "explorers". The Excelsior, Galaxy, and Sovereign are all "expkorer" type vessels.

No, the flawed logic rests in the show itself. How come there is never a mentioning of polarized hulls in any previous Trek series? Because they haven't thought of Enterprise or poloraized hull plating when they where making previous Trek shows. Why do ships go down so easily in the future when the shields are compromised? Evolution of weapons. Why should hull reinforcement technology degrade over time? The Defiant had ablative armor which could be blasted away percent by percent. Perhaps the NX uses a more primitve form of that armor, or simply could be that weapon hits drain the energy reserves, and once drain the polarizing goes away, leaving the ship vurnable. That's the flawed logic IMO.

2152. Exactly. No Federation. Earth is barely 100 years post WW III and Warp 5 is new to humans. Whereas the Klinks are a primarily warrior race well aware of the Roms and their dangerous technologies and have tinkered with starships and warp drives longer than Earth has. I stand by my conclusion: the fact that the NX-01 survived that battle against Duras was because of the pathetic deus ex machina know as polarized hull plating. That's my argument and I'm sticking to it.

Huh, yes, polarized hull plating saved the ship. Good conclusion.

Don't deny it, you know its true. You be a fool to underestimate the Raptor. Pre-patch, warbirds were trash in comparison. Even now, Raptors still kick mighty butt. Or do you doubt the power of the mighty Romulan Empire?

You do bear its insignia after all.

The Raptor overall is probably the best ship in the game, but on a un-modded server, I generally rather have a Warbird. I always have been a follower of the Battleship/Tank philosophy, and the Warbird does the Battleship/Tank better than the Raptor.

A good point. You just have to accept the outcome as they gave it to us tonight. The transporter thing is a viable conclusion; while the NX-01 made off with the refugees, Archer was beamed over by Duras. Amazing Duras didn't kill him on the spot...

Killing him would of an act of honor and respect in the Klingon culture.

Jwest · « **Reply #102 on:** April 10, 2003, 08:43:49 am »

Quote

No, the flawed logic rests in the show itself. How come there is never a mentioning of polarized hulls in any previous Trek series? Why do ships go down so easily in the future when the shields are compromised? Why should hull reinforcement technology degrade over time? That's the flawed logic IMO.

Simply put, the same reason there's no mention of wood hulls and rigging in todays navy. They're Obsolete by today's standards. But although wooden hulls and rigging are weaker than todays ships, there was a period when the most powerful wooden ships could be threat to the early ironclads. By the same token, just because polarized hull plating is weaker and/or less energy efficient than shields doesn't mean it's not a useful defense against an early disruptor, capable of protecting the ship against a few shots.

Remember, the half-power disruptors of SFC *fighter* is probably more powerful than the big guns of this battlecruiser.

Mind you - there are a lot of problems with this episode, I just can't say the fact that NX-01 can survive the first shots is one of them.

JW

Tremok · « **Reply #103 on:** April 10, 2003, 08:48:43 am »

Quote:

Interesting... Paramount who hates all things Amarillo Design Bureau, and yet, where was the non-canon D5 ship classification first seen by fans anywhere? Well, Starfleet Battles of course... 20 years ago...
Curious...

The D5 in the show is much better anyway. Besides, I wouldn't want every new ship to come from an older Trek game. I like seeing completely new ships.

Also, speaking on the subject of game ship designs, who designed the SFC1&2 Romulan ships and the SFC3 Romulan ships? I must say, I would be discourage to have anyone that designed/approved SFC3 Romulan ships make ships for the Romulans on TV (shiver).

FPF_TraceyG · « **Reply #104 on:** April 10, 2003, 09:17:25 am »

New ship designs are good, yes. It does )for me anyway) become a bit disconverting to have all these different 'versions' of a Trek Universe though, ones where a D5 is a light cruiser and now one where its a Battlecruiser in the 22nd century.
I can see the point about inconsistency in a timeline where technology that exists before a point in time doesnt exists after it. Of course, its Star Trek, so perhaps this explainable, but its not something that TNG ever had to deal with. Gene Rodenberryvery cleverly placed TNG, what was it, 70, 80 100 years after the Original Series? Which gave a lot of breathing space for new technology and gave the script writers the room they needed to be creative.
Enterprise is now set in a historical context, and doesnt (or shouldnt) have that luxury.

Tremok · « **Reply #105 on:** April 10, 2003, 09:32:46 am »

I don't think the SFC D5 was ever canon.

FPF_TraceyG · « **Reply #106 on:** April 10, 2003, 10:05:27 am »

The D5 wasnt... no, you are correct.
However, the term D7 was never canon either, but is treated as such.
The question then of what is canon and what isnt is, I'm sure, an arguable question and strictly speaking, whatever appears officially in the TV series or movies is canon (even with all of its inconsistencies). A certain degree of fan-based non-canon material has worked its way into what is now canon, but even still, I wasnt actually saying calling the Enterprise D5 an inconsistency. However, for me personally, I've come to think of a D5 as the Light Cruiser created by ADB, and there is a wealth of non-canon material which the fan base has gone to great lengths to ensure not only is it consistent with canon material but also with itself as well. This adds much more depth, realism, believability and cohesion to the entire Star Trek Universe and I for one welcome it. It would be nice if Paramount acknowledged the efforts of its fan base and went along with that as well, instead of creating not just inconsistencies with non-canon material, which is neither here nor there, really, but inconsistencies with its own material.

Apocolypse · « **Reply #107 on:** April 10, 2003, 11:05:01 am »

Thinking that this would actually be a worthwhile topic, i read it. All i have to say is blah blah blah blah blah. A Klingon D5 should NOT be able to disable nor destroy Enterprise with a few shots. Why you might ask? Simply the same reason that the Excelsior is in SFC3. Ships get refitted, they arent doomed to their original design, the ship that is the D5 in Enterprise is NOT the same ship that is in SFC. Thought that would be apparant, guess not.

Maxillius · « **Reply #108 on:** April 10, 2003, 11:16:12 am »

The K'tinga in SFC3 is a CL, a heavy DD at least, but in SFC1,2 and OP it is a full-grown Battlecruiser. So, by such logic, considering the Klingons use their hulls a LOT longer than anyone else, the brand-new D5 battlecruiser in Enterprise would very likely be a CL or more approprately, CW, by the time of the SFC series.

I'm curious as to why the K'tinga in SFC3 is a D8 in the description screen... perhaps because there was no D8 before? Anyhow, that D5 looked more like an F5 to me (with a few differences), and they possibly just switched designations on later refits.

sjvessey · « **Reply #109 on:** April 10, 2003, 11:53:02 am »

Oh noooo... sorry but it just makes me laugh... all this talk of weapons and their effectiveness against bare hulls. You know, a late 20th century hydrogen bomb containing a few kilos of the relevant matter (various hydrogen compounds, some tritium and a plutonium initiator) creates a 50 megaton explosion that utterly destroys anything within a few miles of the epicentre of the explosion. A nuclear-tipped missile detonating against the bare hull of a starship would literally vaporise it instantaneously.

Now correct me if I'm wrong but 'photon torpedoes' are supposed to contain antimatter. Your typical everyday fusion explosion converts 4 percent of the available matter to energy, whereas with antimatter the efficiency is 100 percent. In simple terms this means that an antimatter explosion is approximately 25 times more powerful.

So how come when photon torpedoes detonate you get an explosion that looks about the same intensity as a 2000lb JDAM bomb full of C4 going off, instead of a gigaton blast wave that destroys everything within 100 miles?

Utterly ridiculous.

Alidar Jarok · « **Reply #110 on:** April 10, 2003, 11:53:42 am »

Anybody have a screenshot of the ship (I missed the episode

)

The K't'inga is a CL

It goes:

B'rel (FF)
K'vort (DD)
K't'inga (CL)
Fehk'lrh (CA)
Vor'cha (BCH)
Negh'var (DN)

The K't'inga was a CA (or, more specifically, the D6 or 7 was a CA the D7W K't'inga class was more advanced)
Now it is a CL (A complete drop in class)

The D-5 is probably the same class as the D7W
It was dropped to a CL

The reason a D5 isn't in SFC3 is because the K'Vort is much more manuverable (something deperatly needed for a DD)

Alidar Jarok · « **Reply #112 on:** April 10, 2003, 10:03:46 pm »

Images of D5

JOLLYROGER · « **Reply #113 on:** April 10, 2003, 10:33:00 pm »

I usually don't post on this forum, but I must answer to this RE:

It's called future technology. Technology this strong because it SCIFI.

Captain KoraH · « **Reply #114 on:** April 11, 2003, 01:49:43 am »

I just have to say how rediculous it is for anyone to gauge Trek episodes off of a game. The two are light years appart from each other. To the writers of Enterprise, SFB, SFC and this little forum don't matter, heck they don't even exist. The line of reason goes the OTHER way folks. The game is based on the SHOW, not the other way around. Any analogy between this game and the latest episode of Trek are totally coincidental. In canon Trek, there is no such thing as a "Phaser 3" on a starship, or a "Gattling Phaser" or even "Hydrans".

The D-5 was mentioned in DS9, but I don't think it's the same D-5 class from Enterprise.

Easter Eggs in last night's episode:

Weapons Officer Duras. Obviously an ancestor of the warrior Duras, and the Duras sisters, Lursa and Be'tor. Will reprise his role in season finale 'The Expanse' in late May.

Klingon arbitrator Kolos played by J.G. Hertzler (best Klingon actor of all time, see poll below) He has played the Hirogen Hunter in Voyager, Vulcan Captain in TNG "Emissary: Part 1" and "Laas" in DS9 "Chimera" as well as playing Martok in 17 episodes of Trek. An incredible actor, he has also been on "Everybody Loves Raymond", "Touched by an Angel", "Roswell", "Sabrina, the Teenage Witch", "Charmed", "Lois & Clark: The New Adventures of Superman", "Dr. Quinn, Medicine Woman", "Diagnosis Murder", "Adventures of Brisco County Jr.", "Highlander" and "Quantum Leap". There is none higher...

D-5 ship named "BortaS" (same as Gowron's flagship. Word "BortaS" in Klingon means "revenge" Worf served as weapons officer aboard the BortaS for a time)

Entire courtroom set, complete with judges gavel, Klingon wall banner and lifetime sentence to Rura Penthe. Straight out of Star Trek VI. Very poor work, lack of imagination.

John Vickery, who plays Orak the Klingon prosecutor, appeared as a Cardassian Gul in DS9

Raw Targ served nightly in Klingon prison... I thought that was a delicasy?

Klingon Blood Wine... I've tasted it, have you? Great stuff!

This episode wins my personal award for...

WORST PLOT HOLE IN HISTORY

It's not how Archer was apprehended...

It's not why Starfleet has no say in what happens to him, or why nobody even contacts them...

It's not that the Klingons pay more attention to Archer's career than Starfleet...

It's not Those things... Ok, yes it is.

J.G. Hertzler = Greatest Klingon actor ever to grace the screen.... here's proof:

Poll at StarTRek.com:

Who is your favorite Klingon actor?

Kor - 4.60% (41) <-------------John Colicos, RIP.... My favorite until Martok.
Koloth - 1.91% (17)
Kang - 5.16% (46)
Mara - 2.13% (19) <------------------WTF?
Kahless - 6.73% (60) <--------------------------Little kids vote here.
Kruge - 2.13% (19) <-----------Should have been more.
Gorkon - 2.80% (25)
Chang - 8.86% (79) <-------------Should have been less.
Korris - 0.34% (3)
Kurn - 2.13% (19) <--------- Great Klingon, not enough screen time. Sorry Kurn...
K'mpec - 1.57% (14)
Duras - 1.46% (13)
Gowron - 9.75% (87) <--------Fools and traitors of the Empire vote here.
Lursa & B'Etor - 9.42% (84)
Martok - 38.34% (342) <--------------------- J.G Hertzler. The numbers speak for themselves.
Klaang - 2.69% (24)

Apocolypse · « **Reply #117 on:** April 11, 2003, 10:10:13 am »

Yeah, i third that one.

Cozbo · « **Reply #118 on:** April 11, 2003, 02:53:31 pm »

Didn't see the show but posting to your thoughts on why a D5 didn't blow up the NX-01

Well, I guess the reason the NX-01 was able to survive is the same reason I win many battles against superior ships and fleets in D3: Captain Error.

When I play a player that is 1)Inexperienced or 2)Unfamiliar with the capablities of his ship or 3)Over confident or 4) Using the wrong tactics or 5) Timid or 6) Too aggressive or 7)A combination of all, it doesn't matter if they have 2 class sizes better than me they will lose.

Incompentence comes in all sizes and shapes.

Tulmahk · « **Reply #119 on:** April 11, 2003, 07:40:29 pm »

Why didn't the D5's shots destroy Enterprise right away?

#1: Their AV was too high!

#2: Mayweather can Evasive Maneuvers like nobody's business!

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Topic: New Klingon ship: The D5 Battlecruiser (Read 32905 times) var addthis_config = {"data_track_clickback":true};

FPF_TraceyG

Tremok

Jwest

Tremok

FPF_TraceyG

Tremok

FPF_TraceyG

Apocolypse

Maxillius

sjvessey

Alidar Jarok

Tremok

Alidar Jarok

JOLLYROGER

Captain KoraH

Scipio_66

Lieutenant_Q

Apocolypse

Cozbo

Tulmahk

Topic: New Klingon ship: The D5 Battlecruiser (Read 32905 times)