Topic: 1 for the CPU Guru's  (Read 7388 times)

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Dopler

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1 for the CPU Guru's
« on: April 07, 2003, 10:00:12 am »
Ok , here is my problem .

I dont know if I should buy a Dell Server with duel Zeons or try to build a Gaming CPU?

The only reason I consider the sever is we get 60% off on servers through work , and I am told that I can set it up to run like a PC with XP pro. Can anybody tell me if thats cool or will I have probs ? If not good Idea to buy the server , maybe someone could list out what I should buy to get the best gaming unit I can for $1800.00  , but I want a 17" flat screen monitor and that will need to fit under my $1800.00 budget. Thanks in advance for your comments.

P.S. I priced  a PC with duel processors and it comes in at around $2400.00  I can get the server for $1600.00

Kroma_BaSyl

  • Guest
Re: 1 for the CPU Guru's
« Reply #1 on: April 07, 2003, 10:43:36 am »
I wouldn't waste my money on a dualie if all you need is a top notch gaming system. Dual cpu boxes are great for server apps or video editing, capture, or compression but a waste for regular desktop and gaming use.

I just got the go ahead from the old lady to build a new machine and will be configuring one out from newegg.com, which if you like I can send the specs. It will be an AMD cpu with the nforce2 chipset. Here is a good link on the SFC2.net forum about what others are buying and building these days.

Computer Parts Help

Blade and Dog built some pretty kickass systems recently.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 06:00:00 pm by Kroma_BaSyl »

Dopler

  • Guest
Re: 1 for the CPU Guru's
« Reply #2 on: April 07, 2003, 11:31:00 am »
Quote:

I wouldn't waste my money on a dualie if all you need is a top notch gaming system. Dual cpu boxes are great for server apps or video editing, capture, or compression but a waste for regular desktop and gaming use.

I just got the go ahead from the old lady to build a new machine and will be configuring one out from newegg.com, which if you like I can send the specs. It will be an AMD cpu with the nforce2 chipset. Here is a good link on the SFC2.net forum about what others are buying and building these days.

Computer Parts Help

Blade and Dog built some pretty kickass systems recently.  




Thanks Kroma ! and plz do send along the specs on your new unit .

Scipio_66

  • Guest
Re: 1 for the CPU Guru's
« Reply #3 on: April 07, 2003, 12:03:31 pm »
Quote:


Thanks Kroma ! and plz do send along the specs on your new unit .  




Stop that.  STOP THAT!  Oh my God, what have you done??!!!

<S'Cipio wanders off, looking for a place to have his eyes surgically removed.>

-S'Cipio the scandalized

Bob Graham

  • Guest
Re: 1 for the CPU Guru's
« Reply #4 on: April 07, 2003, 02:11:08 pm »
Quote:

Quote:


Thanks Kroma ! and plz do send along the specs on your new unit .  




Stop that.  STOP THAT!  Oh my God, what have you done??!!!

<S'Cipio wanders off, looking for a place to have his eyes surgically removed.>

-S'Cipio the scandalized  




LMAO!  Talk about 'out of context'!

Anyway, Kroma, I would like to know what you come up with on that new system too.  Im looking into building a new system as well.

KBF-Dogmatix

  • Guest
Re: 1 for the CPU Guru's
« Reply #5 on: April 07, 2003, 02:36:06 pm »
Yeah...I would bother with a dual CPU system if you're looking for gaming performance.  I mean...for $1,600 on the dualie...what do you get in terms of monitor and graphics adaptor?



I put the following together for about $1600 or so...


Athlon XP 2700+ (Thermalright SLK-800/Vantec Tornado HSF, 12x195) | Asus A7N8X-Deluxe (1002A1 SATA "Uber" BIOS) | 1024 MB (2x512 MB) Corsair XMS PC3200C2 | Sapphire Radeon Atlantis 9700 Pro (Cat. 3.2) | ViewSonic VX900 19" LCD | 80GB Maxtor (7200 RPM/ATA133) | Logitech MX-700 wireless mouse | Windows XP Pro



 

Kroma_BaSyl

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Re: 1 for the CPU Guru's
« Reply #6 on: April 07, 2003, 03:57:02 pm »
If you are under age or nervous about playing around under the tutu, please be forewarned:

Kroma's Magnificant Unit

While I do envy Doggy's unit, I'm not into the screaming in the bedroom (thus the Zalman flower) nor do I feel the need to over-compensate (overclock) and being a big fan of boy bands I like to RAM in sync (thus only 2700 twins). Definitely go for the twins if using the nforce2 chipset to maximize memory bandwidth and stability. I also am opting for the Geforce TI4200 instead of the ATI, but it is sweet too. I'm giving the 15 inch to the old lady, butt have had the 17" GEMSTAR myself and loved it.  

Dopler

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Re: 1 for the CPU Guru's
« Reply #7 on: April 07, 2003, 05:04:39 pm »
Quote:

Yeah...I would bother with a dual CPU system if you're looking for gaming performance.  I mean...for $1,600 on the dualie...what do you get in terms of monitor and graphics adaptor?



I put the following together for about $1600 or so...


Athlon XP 2700+ (Thermalright SLK-800/Vantec Tornado HSF, 12x195) | Asus A7N8X-Deluxe (1002A1 SATA "Uber" BIOS) | 1024 MB (2x512 MB) Corsair XMS PC3200C2 | Sapphire Radeon Atlantis 9700 Pro (Cat. 3.2) | ViewSonic VX900 19" LCD | 80GB Maxtor (7200 RPM/ATA133) | Logitech MX-700 wireless mouse | Windows XP Pro



 




The $1600 would be for the box only no monitor . Not sure about grafics adaptor . I will post the exact specs as soon as poss on this thread .  Looks like both you and Kroma are bringing out the big guns If I dont do the server I will probably do something very close to yours but with pieces from Kroma's . I like the Gforce cards , its a comfort thing . I am very confused after reading your other thread that talks about the different types of RAM , so the jurys out on memory  

thanks .

Kroma_BaSyl

  • Guest
Re: 1 for the CPU Guru's
« Reply #8 on: April 07, 2003, 05:48:36 pm »
With the RAM basically it is this, while the nforce2 chipset will support the 3200 (i.e. 400MHz DDR) it can't run it in sync with the 333 MHz FSB (front side bus) unless you seriously overclock. It has been shown that it is actually better and cheaper to just get the 2700 (333MHz DDR)  and run it in sync with the FSB. In essence even though the 3200 (400 MHz DDR) is faster, when coupled with the slower FSB the overall performance actually suffers as compared to running slower memory (2700 or 333MHz DDR) at the same speed as the FSB at 333MHz. It is a bit more complicated than that, but the short answer is if your not going to overclock (and to do this would require serious chipset cooling) don't waste your money on the faster RAM as it would actually slow down the system.

As for using the twins pairs of RAM sticks instead of just on big one, this is so as to take advantage of the nforce2's dual memory channel arch, which increases the memory bandwidth. You could just buy any two identical dimms, but if the timings aren't just right they might not work together well, so cosair has taken to pre-testing them together and selling them as matched pairs.

I will say the ATI is a sweet graphics card, but I am going to save that for a micro I want to build with a AIW version as a home entertainment box to hook to the TV as a PVR (homemade TIVO).

KRolling

  • Guest
Re: 1 for the CPU Guru's
« Reply #9 on: April 07, 2003, 06:09:44 pm »
Quote:

If you are under age or nervous about playing around under the tutu, please be forewarned:

Kroma's Magnificant Unit

 





OOOOOOOH KROMA!!! <faints>

Rob Cole

  • Guest
Re: 1 for the CPU Guru's
« Reply #10 on: April 07, 2003, 10:29:34 pm »
Asus NForce A7N8X Deluxe
AMD 3000+ XP
Corsair TWINX1024 DDR
Dual Seagate 80GB SATA Raid 0
Lite-On 16X40 DVD
Pioneer A-05 DVD/RW
PNY Geforce4 4600TI
Windows XP Pro
Lian-Li PC-601
430w Enermax ps

This is the box I just built,Tho it is a wee bit over what ya want to spend(2300).
You could go for a smaller proc and still have a sweet rig.
Money was not an issue with me so I went nuts
If you need any advice or help setting up a new box drop me a e-mail.

Mavolic

  • Guest
Re: 1 for the CPU Guru's
« Reply #11 on: April 08, 2003, 06:06:17 am »
Dual processor system have a nice ring to them, but until both games and programs start taking advantage of multithreading,  it's a mute point to have one as a home system.

Besides, you can build a solid, fast, and more versital system using the great selection of single processor Mobo's.

taking out the the other accessories and monitor, and a extra hard drive, this is my rig and it should give you an ideal of what you can get.  

All prices are coming from www.newegg.com.  If you order online, THIS place should be at the top of your list....

Asus A7N8X Deluxe Mobo - $141.99

AMD Athlon 2600+ 333 FSB Retail - $234

Samsung PC2700 256meg DDR333 ram X2 - Not listed (?!) $61 X 2
(I'm thinking newegg is running out of Samsung ram )

Western Digital 80 gig Special Edition HD w/8 meg cache - $96

ATI Radeon 9700Pro - $348 (currently out of stock at newegg..hmmm they had plenty of parts in January heh, besides I'm thinking they are selling the 9700Pro $300 and under at some stores now)

Yamaha CRW220E CD-RW drive - (Well, to be honest I didn't get this drive at Newegg.  Paid like $130 for awhile ago.  You can get burners now for $50.)

Some obscure, yet pretty good DvD drive -$50

Sony 1.44 floppy - $7.50 (Long live the Floppy! )

Antec 330 watt TruePower power supply - $54.99

Lian Li PC - 82COM case - $150 (PC -82COM is the same as a PC - 82, except that it includes a nifty looking front aluminum bezel and an extra case fan - I got it at Compusa of all places, as cases tend to add a chunk to shipping)

------------------------------------------------------------

Tally so far is --- $1206.48

Of course that's not what I paid 3 months ago

As you can see the Asus 7N8X Deluxe board is a popular MoBo, but you can find cheaper ones, that are just as fast, are almost as fast.  This board supports Dual channel DDR, which means it's in your best intrest to get two sticks of DDR ram instead of just one.  The reason I didn't get PC3200 DDR400 ram is because the Athlon has a front side bus of 333, so it can run asynchronus(sp?) with the 333 speed of the ram.  Unless you plan on overclocking the FSB of the CPU, or buying a future Barton core Athlon that runs at a FSB of 400, then sticking with the PC2700 ram is in your best intrest, as you gain no performance boost by purchasing the PC3200 ram.

I will most likely end up buying two SATA drives, so I can run a raid configuration.  That's the only bummer with this Mobo, is that you can't do it with the IDE.

As you can see my system would more than likely fit in your budget, and it's a pretty damn fast system for the money.

Just remember three things not to go cheap on...

(1) Power Supply - After first hand experience at what a cheap power supply can do to a system, You will never see me with a crappy PS.  I'm using this Antec right now, as the power is divided up over seperate rails, and the company has a good reputation for putting out solid power supplies.  But there are plenty of others to choose from.

(2) Case - I use to care less of what case I got, but todays systems generate a pretty good amount of heat. You don't want a cramped one, and ones that don't have much in the way of ventilation.  Look for ones that will allow you to put multiple case fans in it, and leave plenty of room for your system to breath in.  Really you can find plenty that fit that criteria that wont cost you an arm and a leg.  

(3) Memory - Ironic I say this, as Samsung is a bargin for this quality of a chip.  Then again Samsung is a major memory chip maker.  Anyways, cheap ram only bogs your hot-rod of a system down.  Not to metion the fun you can have by overclocking good ram sticks )

If I were you, I would be looking at the new Barton core Athlons.  They run at an FSB333, and have double the L1 and L2 caches of my chip, and the 2500+ Barton is selling for $175 on Newegg.

--------------------------------------------

You can pick and choose what best suits your pocket and taste.  Give me $1800, and I can build a pretty damn nice, fast, and stable system.  You should be able to do fine.






   
« Last Edit: April 08, 2003, 06:11:29 am by Mavolic »

KBF-Dogmatix

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Re: 1 for the CPU Guru's
« Reply #12 on: April 08, 2003, 10:36:45 am »
Pretty good advice, Mavolic.  


My personal opinion is that the Corsair TWINX (matched) memory is the way to go right now.  It worth what you pay for it.  Two matched sticks of PC2700 probably won't be that big of a hit.  I'd also recomment at least 512K in total, but (obviously) a gig is better!  


I'm not sure if your suggestion on power supply was a typo or not, but I really wouldn't setting for anything less than a very good 430W PSU.  Never skimp on the PSU.  Enermax and Antec are the reasonable choices at the 430W+ level.  PC Power and Cooling puts out the verby best, right now...but you pay for it.


Googlegear is a good substitute for NewEgg if they are out of stock on certain parts.  I've had good luck with them, anyway.  




As far as running the CPU and RAM in synch, I totally agree with Kroma.  I bought the PC3200 because I was going to overclock and the stuff I bought is rated for use at 400 MHZ or better.  I am running in synch with my CPU at 380 FSB (12x195).  That's going to be significantly faster in just about every way than running in synch at 333 FSB.  I'm this close to getting 400 mhz FSB.  I just need to get around to adding the heatsinks I got for my 9700 Pro as well as putting a fan on my Northbridge and a heatsink on my Southbridge.  I'm hoping that does the trick and lets me go from 12x195 to 12x200.  I can POST at that speed, but I get immediate errors in Prime95.    

My guess is that my memory bandwidth is only going to increase about 100K by making this step, anyway.  I think i'm at about 2900K+ right now.  I'd have to check again, though.


If money is an issue and you will not attempt to overclock at all, I'd say two things.  


1.  Unless you need/want the onboard Dolby Digital sound or the dual on-board NICs., I might not bother with the costly A7N8X Deluxe.  Try going with the cheaper A7N8X or an Epox 8RDA+ (both cheaper solutions, but still good overclockers, if that's what you want).  You definitely can live with the sound created on the DLX version, though.  That can save you some buckage on a soundcard.  I've NEVER used on-board sound until now.

2.  If you're not going to overclock at all, then by all means, save your money and buy some good PC2700 RAM.  I still suggest the Corsair XMS TWINX matched pairs is the way to go.




 
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 06:00:00 pm by KBF-Dogmatix »

Dopler

  • Guest
Re: 1 for the CPU Guru's
« Reply #13 on: April 08, 2003, 01:16:39 pm »
Thanks for all the info folks ! I wont have server specs till friday when our IT guy gets back so I will post here when I get them.  If I go the route of building it would be my first ,so........ Mr Cole I will be taking you up on your offer  As far as money goes I can spend what I want but, I do have a hard time parting with it  Kinda like Mr Crab from Spoungebob Squarepants ........ok , not quite that bad  

Dopler

  • Guest
Re: 1 for the CPU Guru's
« Reply #14 on: April 08, 2003, 01:24:18 pm »
Quote:

Quote:


Thanks Kroma ! and plz do send along the specs on your new unit .  




Stop that.  STOP THAT!  Oh my God, what have you done??!!!

<S'Cipio wanders off, looking for a place to have his eyes surgically removed.>

-S'Cipio the scandalized  


      Notice how the Plasma races always have their minds in the gutter??????  Could it be the Long charging period of a PT ?  Maybe because a red plasma starts to turn pink as it fades ???   Hmmmmm maybe cause PT's kinda look like sperm if you really use your imagination  ?????

 

Dopler

  • Guest
Re: 1 for the CPU Guru's
« Reply #15 on: April 08, 2003, 01:31:50 pm »
Kroma I noticed your in my area do you ever build cpu's for a small fee ??? I dont fear building a unit , I just dont know what to do after I turn it on

Kroma_BaSyl

  • Guest
Re: 1 for the CPU Guru's
« Reply #16 on: April 08, 2003, 01:46:32 pm »
You may just be in luck, besides building my own I am going to be building several for friends in the coming weeks. Adding one more is no big deal,  as I can do them in a assembly line fashion. Sometimes the hardest part can be trouble shooting a DOA part, but if I am doing several then I can use part from the others to trouble shoot. Drop me a line via email and we can work out the details, very small fee. Hell I'm in the GDA I would probably do it for booze ;-)

kroma_basyl@yahoo.com

Kroma,

PS, I am located in Evanston.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 06:00:00 pm by Kroma_BaSyl »

Mavolic

  • Guest
Re: 1 for the CPU Guru's
« Reply #17 on: April 08, 2003, 03:14:06 pm »
Quote:

Pretty good advice, Mavolic.  


My personal opinion is that the Corsair TWINX (matched) memory is the way to go right now.  It worth what you pay for it.  Two matched sticks of PC2700 probably won't be that big of a hit.  I'd also recomment at least 512K in total, but (obviously) a gig is better!  


I'm not sure if your suggestion on power supply was a typo or not, but I really wouldn't setting for anything less than a very good 430W PSU.  Never skimp on the PSU.  Enermax and Antec are the reasonable choices at the 430W+ level.  PC Power and Cooling puts out the verby best, right now...but you pay for it.


Googlegear is a good substitute for NewEgg if they are out of stock on certain parts.  I've had good luck with them, anyway.  




As far as running the CPU and RAM in synch, I totally agree with Kroma.  I bought the PC3200 because I was going to overclock and the stuff I bought is rated for use at 400 MHZ or better.  I am running in synch with my CPU at 380 FSB (12x195).  That's going to be significantly faster in just about every way than running in synch at 333 FSB.  I'm this close to getting 400 mhz FSB.  I just need to get around to adding the heatsinks I got for my 9700 Pro as well as putting a fan on my Northbridge and a heatsink on my Southbridge.  I'm hoping that does the trick and lets me go from 12x195 to 12x200.  I can POST at that speed, but I get immediate errors in Prime95.    

My guess is that my memory bandwidth is only going to increase about 100K by making this step, anyway.  I think i'm at about 2900K+ right now.  I'd have to check again, though.


If money is an issue and you will not attempt to overclock at all, I'd say two things.  


1.  Unless you need/want the onboard Dolby Digital sound or the dual on-board NICs., I might not bother with the costly A7N8X Deluxe.  Try going with the cheaper A7N8X or an Epox 8RDA+ (both cheaper solutions, but still good overclockers, if that's what you want).  You definitely can live with the sound created on the DLX version, though.  That can save you some buckage on a soundcard.  I've NEVER used on-board sound until now.


2.  If you're not going to overclock at all, then by all means, save your money and buy some good PC2700 RAM.  I still suggest the Corsair XMS TWINX matched pairs is the way to go.




 




I wholeheartly agree with you Dogmatix.

A couple of points about my system...

My Antec 330True power supply runs it's power off of seperate rails, which means it's 12v, 5v, 3.3v, etc.. isn't using the same rail to supply the entire case.  One of the main reasons for getting a 400w+ supply is because most power supplies runs off of one rail.  This isn't a bad thing, as you will still have good solid power, and plenty of it, but the 330True is much more efffieciant, and constant when it comes to power.  From using the Asus onboard monitoring utility, I can see that this is very much true ( pardon the pun )  You can run a server with a 430w power supply, so I really didn't need one.


Memory....

Actually my Samsung CTL memory sticks are very good overclockers.  There are people who have overclocked this memory to 200mhz (400DDR).   Corsairs are good, but they aren't the only player on the block.  Biggest thing about memory sticks is how low you can get the CAS timings down too.

But I do agree, if your going for a overall, overclocked system then those PC3200 Corsairs are nice sticks to have...

When the 400 FSB cores start coming out, I will end upgrading my memory to go along with it.  I run two systems at home, and whatever is left I can usually pawn off to someone.  I do like to play around with overclocking, but I usually don't run my system overclock when it is new.  I usually reserve that for when I build a new system.  As of right now, I can play every game I own with full eye-candy turned on, and the system doesn't even flinch.  Not much of reason to overclock anything on it, other than to run benchmarks on it.   Speaking of which, this system normal is pulling in 15,000 in 3DMark2001, and I have done a little overclocking to the system to pull in 17,000 marks, so as you can see it isn't a slouch by any means.  Maybe one day I will shoot for 20,000 with it... , but as I didn't get the system to play the my 'puter is faster than your 'puter game, I really don't mind running it in "slow" mode...

The reason I went for the Asus 7N8X Deluxe, is for all the silly bells and whistles.  If you your starting out fresh in building a system, that MoBo is the cheapest why to get all the parts.  I don't need two NIC cards, but other than that I'm using/planning on using every thing builit in to it.  And the Soundstorm audio system is amazing.  I remember scoffing at ever using a built in sound card, but this thing really takes the cake.  It's more like a sound card with a bulit-in motherboard.  So far the only gaming sound card that can beat it, and when I mean beat, I mean very marginally beat it, is the Creative Sound Blaster Audigy 2.  Other than that it can go head to head with any other gaming sound card, and pretty much come out on top. Of course I'm not comparing it to proaudio cards, just cards within it's price range.  The one very unique feature of it, is that is does Dolby Digital encoding something that no other sound card does.  That mean it doesn't matter what speaker system you get, it can feed a raw digital signal to it and leaves your speaker system to decode it however it wants to.  I'm running a Logitech Z-680 5.1 speaker system through it, which can decode Dolby Digital, DTS,  Dolby Pro Logic II, and is fully THX certified.  Let's just say it puts ever other sound card to shame that I ever used...

Right now I only have one card in the case and that's my video card.  And it definately gets plenty of air flow heh.

But ya, if you have everything you need to run the system without all the built-in goodies,  then it would be a waste to get this Mobo, in which case there are plenty of just as good, and cheaper MoBo's out there....  





   

KBF-Dogmatix

  • Guest
Re: 1 for the CPU Guru's
« Reply #18 on: April 08, 2003, 05:40:06 pm »
I'm with you, Mav...I'm not really into tweaking for benchmarks, either.  I think I've gotten a little over 16,600 3DMarks with #DMark2001SE and I'm sure I could probably get more if I cared to work at it.  It's just not my thing.  I generally benchmark as a test of tweaks I make as well as a means of testing stability.  Once i'm done with all that, I'm done benching.  I don't much care who has the faster computer or whether or not I've gotten every last drop of performance out of my rig.  I like a nice overclock with stability and longevity...heheh.  As long as I can run my games du jour, i'm happy.


Good point on that TruePower 330.  I forget that stuff about that particular power supply.  As a reflex, when I see anything less than 400W on a modern system recommendation...


I'm totally with you there on the onboard sound the A7N8X-Deluxe offers.  I've always scoffed at onboard video and sound, until now.  I still scoff at onboard video, but that's a different story.



 

Maxillius

  • Guest
Re: 1 for the CPU Guru's
« Reply #19 on: April 08, 2003, 08:27:10 pm »
I have an old Tandy TRS-80 sitting in my garage, and I've got an idea to take EVERYTHING out of it, guts, monitor, powersupply, keyboard, drives, everything... repaint it and make it an up-to-date uber system.  I could fit a 17in LCD on it with some cutting, and it's plenty wide enough to stick a standard keyboard in it, so, with all the extra space that case has, it should be pretty kick ass if I fill it up.  I'll post pics if I ever start it lol...