Topic: Patch issues and questions (Read 4476 times)

Lieberkhuun · « **on:** April 04, 2003, 12:32:16 pm »

Hello all,
I'd like to begin by saying that I've played SFCIII since it's release and have gained a certain level of skill. (Made it to Commander with the WB before it's demise) If you play on Gamespy, we have probably met. Before I patched, I was undefeated in 1v1 or team play for over a month, which equates to dozens of games. Since I patched, I have been unable to even scratch some ships, let alone win a game. I realize, from other posts, that the "mod detector" feature in Gamespy won't work with the patch, and I assume that some, if not most, of my opponents are probably modded, though my rooms clearly state, "no mods".
My questions are:
If I had a refitted ship pre-patch, do I have to now re-refit my ships post patch for the "balancing" effects to kick in?
I usually fly a Vorcha. Now it seems like the weakest ship in the game. Were Klinks weakened in the patch?
Why do I suddenly suck? I have played a few people post patch who remembered playing me pre patch and they even commented on the difference. I just don't get it.
I'm seriously considering dumping the patch and going back.
Has anyone else experienced the same kind of stuff I have?

Firestorm · « **Reply #1 on:** April 04, 2003, 12:54:14 pm »

The biggest problem I have with my Vor'cha(or any Klingon ship) is everyone elses weapons are very capable at hitting targets that are at warp, or while they themselves are firing their weapon and they are at warp(heavies only of course).

Klingon weapons don't work that way.

So, now I have my opponents flying by me at warp, hitting me with their heavies and continuing warp till far enough away, rinse and repeat. Since Klingon weapons can't hit a ship a warp, they are pretty safe to continue this tactic until I am beat down 50% or so then they can come in and win a knife fight, or just keep picking away tilll nothing left.

MrCue · « **Reply #2 on:** April 04, 2003, 03:09:13 pm »

i think you will find plasmas dont hit either. Unless they are warping directly at or away from you

Mantis · « **Reply #3 on:** April 04, 2003, 03:27:31 pm »

Quote:

Since Klingon weapons can't hit a ship a warp, they are pretty safe to continue this tactic until I am beat down 50% or so then they can come in and win a knife fight, or just keep picking away tilll nothing left.

Can't Klingon's cloak?

Lord Marauder · « **Reply #5 on:** April 04, 2003, 04:49:25 pm »

Yes klingons can cloak, but most player ships have lvl 5 computers which makes cloak useless against Fed ships. I have found that even Lvl 5 Cloak is useless against Fed ships. I will relate a personal experience of mine in a match. It started as a 3 person FFA on a medium map. I was in a Klingon Ship that cloaked at the start of the match before going to red alert. I went to the border at 1/4 impulse power and stoped my ship before turning around to watch the other 2 ships go at it. I was at full stop. The fed ship used the tactics described above against the other ship. It wasn't even a fight, because the other klingon ship couldn't even land a hit on the warping Fed ship. I thought myself safely cloaked and hidden, untill 2 Quantom torpedos came sailing at me before I could even do anything. Those 2 hits killed all my officers at once and destroyed my cloaking device at the same time, basically killing my ability to fight back. so I crossed the border and left the match. I was in a Vorcha and so was the other player that lost. The Fed was in an Akira CA.

I have not played the game pre-patch because by the time I got tha game, almost everyone was patched and if you wanted to play on GSA it was either install the patch or don't play online. Many people say that the patch leveled the playing field making the other(Read non-Fed) ships competitive. Of corse most of the people saying this Fly Fed ships.

What good is the cloking device if it doesn''t hide you and only makes it easier for feds to kill you??
Many people site the same things about SFC1&2. Only in SFC1&2 you had shields while you are cloaked and the cloak didn't hide you at all, it only turnd your ship black.

I agree with the person that started this thread. Klingons got the shaft in SFC3(Post Patch). the only way klingon weapons will ever hit an enemy ship is if there is 0 angular velocity and even then they only hit 25% of the time. I truely hope they fix this either in the next build of the patch or in the offical 1 because as it stands, the game isn't even fun to play when you know that you can never win against the feds with their never missing weapons.

Lord Marauder · « **Reply #7 on:** April 06, 2003, 07:06:30 am »

I understand that Staying still can be a death trap in combat but, at the distance I was away from the fight, The Fed ship should have never been able to detect me in the first place. The slower you go inder cloak, the more difficult it is to detect you due to the energy emmisions that your impulse engines put out. I was undercloak, at around 50 from the combat zone, at a dead stop while the fed and the other ship went at it. At that distance, there is no way the fed should have been able to pick me up, PERIOD!! After he destroyed the Other klink, he closed to 45 and fired off a volly of quantoms as if he knew where i was the entire time. And the rest as they say is history. The experience related above has forced me to quit using the cloaking device all togethor. Most klink ships really don't need it anyway. I feel sorry for the Romulan ships that need it far more than the klingon's ever will, because of the time it takes for them to recharge their weapons. I have noticed that Rom Primary weapons take longer to recharge than any other primary in the game. At least they usually hit thier target.

I believe that I have delivered my point with this rant.

Have a nice day.

32nd Halcyon · « **Reply #8 on:** April 06, 2003, 10:07:52 am »

The answer to your Warp lancing Federation foes..... ION cannons.

They can do a decent amount of damage and they can hit a warping target. It will make your warping foe think twice about flying by you and dumping his/her volley of torps into you. besides the poleron Torpedo tends to miss more than hit anyways, You won't hurt much if you arm your ship with atleast one of these ION beams.

The other thing I'd like to point out is, The klingons have the fastest recharge rates on their weapons of any other race in the game. Take advantage of it and you'll rip your enemies apart.

All of us tend to get comfortable with one style of play, especially if intially it gets wins. The problem with this is...."people" learn how to work around these strategies. For example the minelayercheese ships. I haven't met anyone that hasn't tried this yet... Especially in the pre-patched version. Damage from a Nuc mine was phenominal. Somewhat lessened in the post patch era though. It is still a serious threat.

In the post patched version EM really works. Use it if you aren't already, it will take the bite out of any targ.

It is still a pity that Klingon dizzies don't hit Ships @ warp unless you are directly inline with the flight path of your target.
Along the same note here, a legendary OPS office will give you a better to hit ratio for your heavy weapons. Check it out on your own if you haven't already noticed this.

Speed is Life!

Wiz33 · « **Reply #9 on:** April 06, 2003, 12:07:52 pm »

What you saw was the effect of cheating, not imblance. Apperently the GSA server is not really checking all the default files before starting a match. That mean the other player may have a modified ship and you won't know better. Try this on a non-modded D3 server.

The Klingon cloak is quite effective. I was running a Neghvar with Leg crew against 2 Sov (1 with Leg crew and one mixed) and a Saber. The saber is does not have anti- cloak so it was only the Sov.

We did it as a test. I warp a short distance (~40) from the Sov, slow down to 1/4 impluse and cloaked. For the next 5 mnutes. The 2 Sov kept pinging away and firing probes without detecting me. Then they start warping around and firing probes. I was finally detected by when one of the Sov came out of warp close to me and fire a probe across my nose.

Regards
Wiz

Wiz33 · « **Reply #10 on:** April 06, 2003, 03:46:42 pm »

One more thing. Beam weapon always hit is another myth. The graphic is done so that a Beam weapon always connect wit hthe targeted ship. But weither it actually hits for damage is a totally different thing. Hit that produce damage will either cause a flare on the shield or SparK on Hull. A simple connection without either of this effect is actually a miss.

Regards
Wiz

Maxillius · « **Reply #11 on:** April 07, 2003, 02:48:50 am »

can someone post a LINK to the PATCH??? I just reinstalled after a HD refresh and I want to get patched.

I also need the link to the TNZ mod

EDIT: nevermind, I found the patch, just need the TNZ link... btw, I'm at SghnDubh's site and can't find the fabled link there anywhere!

Lieberkhuun · « **Reply #12 on:** April 07, 2003, 09:12:34 am »

Thanks for all the dialog...
I guess I should have included my ship's refitted specs with my original post.
I'm not in front of the right computer, so this is from memory:
4 Disruptor 4f's facing front
1 polaron, front
1 disruptor 2, rear
level 5 armor, cloak, computer
warp 10? (not sure here, but have a ton of overload room)
impulse and thrusters are adequate.
Big shields all around

This is not a fast turner. It's designed to rip the opposing ship in half quickly, and as I mentioned, was extremely effective pre patch. As for the suggestion that others are adapting to my style of play, I agree, with reservations.
If I had been winning as regularly after patching, I would have come to the same conclusion and never written my original post. I have NEVER WON 1 MATCH WITH A KLINGON SHIP post patch.
I have a question:
Do I have to re-refit all my ships post patch? It seems stupid, but maybe?
Thanks and keep the throbbing brain working

MagnumMan · « **Reply #13 on:** April 07, 2003, 10:36:56 am »

I believe the polaron torp and the quantum torp (normal setting) have the same to-hit probability.

32nd Halcyon · « **Reply #14 on:** April 12, 2003, 11:07:19 am »

I agree with you wiz.
The Fact that beam weapons hit 90% of the time makes them a pretty reliable weapon to fire at warping ships.
It makes sense that you would use the most reliable weapons wouldn't it? Especially if your target thinks that Warping around is an easy way to take advantage of you. Just like other weapons the Ion cannon does lose it's damage potential at certain ranges. And like other weapons intially you will have to cut throught Armor before the weapon truly has any effect.

Speaking from experience on both ends of the Ion Cannon it is a relativly unused weapon. And it could provide extra punch in those hard to hit moments. It may almost be considered the un sung hero of SFC3... ok maybe not.

These are just observations from my many hours playing tha game, to the detriment of my spousal relationship.

Captain KoraH · « **Reply #15 on:** April 12, 2003, 11:42:58 am »

I have to say, I agree that Klingon primaries almost always (not always) miss targets at warp unless there is no AV. Phasers seem to hit warping targets WAY more frequenlty, even without legendary crews. There may be a handful of newbies who think the phaser always hits because the graphic connects the ships, but the fact is the phaser hits warping targets more often than the K-disruptor.

Lieberkhuun · « **Reply #16 on:** April 04, 2003, 12:32:16 pm »

Hello all,
I'd like to begin by saying that I've played SFCIII since it's release and have gained a certain level of skill. (Made it to Commander with the WB before it's demise) If you play on Gamespy, we have probably met. Before I patched, I was undefeated in 1v1 or team play for over a month, which equates to dozens of games. Since I patched, I have been unable to even scratch some ships, let alone win a game. I realize, from other posts, that the "mod detector" feature in Gamespy won't work with the patch, and I assume that some, if not most, of my opponents are probably modded, though my rooms clearly state, "no mods".
My questions are:
If I had a refitted ship pre-patch, do I have to now re-refit my ships post patch for the "balancing" effects to kick in?
I usually fly a Vorcha. Now it seems like the weakest ship in the game. Were Klinks weakened in the patch?
Why do I suddenly suck? I have played a few people post patch who remembered playing me pre patch and they even commented on the difference. I just don't get it.
I'm seriously considering dumping the patch and going back.
Has anyone else experienced the same kind of stuff I have?

Firestorm · « **Reply #17 on:** April 04, 2003, 12:54:14 pm »

The biggest problem I have with my Vor'cha(or any Klingon ship) is everyone elses weapons are very capable at hitting targets that are at warp, or while they themselves are firing their weapon and they are at warp(heavies only of course).

Klingon weapons don't work that way.

So, now I have my opponents flying by me at warp, hitting me with their heavies and continuing warp till far enough away, rinse and repeat. Since Klingon weapons can't hit a ship a warp, they are pretty safe to continue this tactic until I am beat down 50% or so then they can come in and win a knife fight, or just keep picking away tilll nothing left.

MrCue · « **Reply #18 on:** April 04, 2003, 03:09:13 pm »

i think you will find plasmas dont hit either. Unless they are warping directly at or away from you

Lord Marauder · « **Reply #21 on:** April 04, 2003, 04:49:25 pm »

Yes klingons can cloak, but most player ships have lvl 5 computers which makes cloak useless against Fed ships. I have found that even Lvl 5 Cloak is useless against Fed ships. I will relate a personal experience of mine in a match. It started as a 3 person FFA on a medium map. I was in a Klingon Ship that cloaked at the start of the match before going to red alert. I went to the border at 1/4 impulse power and stoped my ship before turning around to watch the other 2 ships go at it. I was at full stop. The fed ship used the tactics described above against the other ship. It wasn't even a fight, because the other klingon ship couldn't even land a hit on the warping Fed ship. I thought myself safely cloaked and hidden, untill 2 Quantom torpedos came sailing at me before I could even do anything. Those 2 hits killed all my officers at once and destroyed my cloaking device at the same time, basically killing my ability to fight back. so I crossed the border and left the match. I was in a Vorcha and so was the other player that lost. The Fed was in an Akira CA.

I have not played the game pre-patch because by the time I got tha game, almost everyone was patched and if you wanted to play on GSA it was either install the patch or don't play online. Many people say that the patch leveled the playing field making the other(Read non-Fed) ships competitive. Of corse most of the people saying this Fly Fed ships.

What good is the cloking device if it doesn''t hide you and only makes it easier for feds to kill you??
Many people site the same things about SFC1&2. Only in SFC1&2 you had shields while you are cloaked and the cloak didn't hide you at all, it only turnd your ship black.

I agree with the person that started this thread. Klingons got the shaft in SFC3(Post Patch). the only way klingon weapons will ever hit an enemy ship is if there is 0 angular velocity and even then they only hit 25% of the time. I truely hope they fix this either in the next build of the patch or in the offical 1 because as it stands, the game isn't even fun to play when you know that you can never win against the feds with their never missing weapons.

Lord Marauder · « **Reply #23 on:** April 06, 2003, 07:06:30 am »

I understand that Staying still can be a death trap in combat but, at the distance I was away from the fight, The Fed ship should have never been able to detect me in the first place. The slower you go inder cloak, the more difficult it is to detect you due to the energy emmisions that your impulse engines put out. I was undercloak, at around 50 from the combat zone, at a dead stop while the fed and the other ship went at it. At that distance, there is no way the fed should have been able to pick me up, PERIOD!! After he destroyed the Other klink, he closed to 45 and fired off a volly of quantoms as if he knew where i was the entire time. And the rest as they say is history. The experience related above has forced me to quit using the cloaking device all togethor. Most klink ships really don't need it anyway. I feel sorry for the Romulan ships that need it far more than the klingon's ever will, because of the time it takes for them to recharge their weapons. I have noticed that Rom Primary weapons take longer to recharge than any other primary in the game. At least they usually hit thier target.

I believe that I have delivered my point with this rant.

Have a nice day.

32nd Halcyon · « **Reply #24 on:** April 06, 2003, 10:07:52 am »

The answer to your Warp lancing Federation foes..... ION cannons.

They can do a decent amount of damage and they can hit a warping target. It will make your warping foe think twice about flying by you and dumping his/her volley of torps into you. besides the poleron Torpedo tends to miss more than hit anyways, You won't hurt much if you arm your ship with atleast one of these ION beams.

The other thing I'd like to point out is, The klingons have the fastest recharge rates on their weapons of any other race in the game. Take advantage of it and you'll rip your enemies apart.

All of us tend to get comfortable with one style of play, especially if intially it gets wins. The problem with this is...."people" learn how to work around these strategies. For example the minelayercheese ships. I haven't met anyone that hasn't tried this yet... Especially in the pre-patched version. Damage from a Nuc mine was phenominal. Somewhat lessened in the post patch era though. It is still a serious threat.

In the post patched version EM really works. Use it if you aren't already, it will take the bite out of any targ.

It is still a pity that Klingon dizzies don't hit Ships @ warp unless you are directly inline with the flight path of your target.
Along the same note here, a legendary OPS office will give you a better to hit ratio for your heavy weapons. Check it out on your own if you haven't already noticed this.

Speed is Life!

Wiz33 · « **Reply #25 on:** April 06, 2003, 12:07:52 pm »

What you saw was the effect of cheating, not imblance. Apperently the GSA server is not really checking all the default files before starting a match. That mean the other player may have a modified ship and you won't know better. Try this on a non-modded D3 server.

The Klingon cloak is quite effective. I was running a Neghvar with Leg crew against 2 Sov (1 with Leg crew and one mixed) and a Saber. The saber is does not have anti- cloak so it was only the Sov.

We did it as a test. I warp a short distance (~40) from the Sov, slow down to 1/4 impluse and cloaked. For the next 5 mnutes. The 2 Sov kept pinging away and firing probes without detecting me. Then they start warping around and firing probes. I was finally detected by when one of the Sov came out of warp close to me and fire a probe across my nose.

Regards
Wiz

Wiz33 · « **Reply #26 on:** April 06, 2003, 03:46:42 pm »

One more thing. Beam weapon always hit is another myth. The graphic is done so that a Beam weapon always connect wit hthe targeted ship. But weither it actually hits for damage is a totally different thing. Hit that produce damage will either cause a flare on the shield or SparK on Hull. A simple connection without either of this effect is actually a miss.

Regards
Wiz

Maxillius · « **Reply #27 on:** April 07, 2003, 02:48:50 am »

can someone post a LINK to the PATCH??? I just reinstalled after a HD refresh and I want to get patched.

I also need the link to the TNZ mod

EDIT: nevermind, I found the patch, just need the TNZ link... btw, I'm at SghnDubh's site and can't find the fabled link there anywhere!

Lieberkhuun · « **Reply #28 on:** April 07, 2003, 09:12:34 am »

Thanks for all the dialog...
I guess I should have included my ship's refitted specs with my original post.
I'm not in front of the right computer, so this is from memory:
4 Disruptor 4f's facing front
1 polaron, front
1 disruptor 2, rear
level 5 armor, cloak, computer
warp 10? (not sure here, but have a ton of overload room)
impulse and thrusters are adequate.
Big shields all around

This is not a fast turner. It's designed to rip the opposing ship in half quickly, and as I mentioned, was extremely effective pre patch. As for the suggestion that others are adapting to my style of play, I agree, with reservations.
If I had been winning as regularly after patching, I would have come to the same conclusion and never written my original post. I have NEVER WON 1 MATCH WITH A KLINGON SHIP post patch.
I have a question:
Do I have to re-refit all my ships post patch? It seems stupid, but maybe?
Thanks and keep the throbbing brain working

MagnumMan · « **Reply #29 on:** April 07, 2003, 10:36:56 am »

I believe the polaron torp and the quantum torp (normal setting) have the same to-hit probability.

32nd Halcyon · « **Reply #30 on:** April 12, 2003, 11:07:19 am »

I agree with you wiz.
The Fact that beam weapons hit 90% of the time makes them a pretty reliable weapon to fire at warping ships.
It makes sense that you would use the most reliable weapons wouldn't it? Especially if your target thinks that Warping around is an easy way to take advantage of you. Just like other weapons the Ion cannon does lose it's damage potential at certain ranges. And like other weapons intially you will have to cut throught Armor before the weapon truly has any effect.

Speaking from experience on both ends of the Ion Cannon it is a relativly unused weapon. And it could provide extra punch in those hard to hit moments. It may almost be considered the un sung hero of SFC3... ok maybe not.

These are just observations from my many hours playing tha game, to the detriment of my spousal relationship.

Captain KoraH · « **Reply #31 on:** April 12, 2003, 11:42:58 am »

I have to say, I agree that Klingon primaries almost always (not always) miss targets at warp unless there is no AV. Phasers seem to hit warping targets WAY more frequenlty, even without legendary crews. There may be a handful of newbies who think the phaser always hits because the graphic connects the ships, but the fact is the phaser hits warping targets more often than the K-disruptor.

News:

Topic: Patch issues and questions (Read 4476 times) var addthis_config = {"data_track_clickback":true};

Lieberkhuun

Firestorm

MrCue

Mantis

Alidar Jarok

Lord Marauder

Mantis

Lord Marauder

32nd Halcyon

Wiz33

Wiz33

Maxillius

Lieberkhuun

MagnumMan

32nd Halcyon

Captain KoraH

Lieberkhuun

Firestorm

MrCue

Mantis

Alidar Jarok

Lord Marauder

Mantis

Lord Marauder

32nd Halcyon

Wiz33

Wiz33

Maxillius

Lieberkhuun

MagnumMan

32nd Halcyon

Captain KoraH

Topic: Patch issues and questions (Read 4476 times)