Topic: I love the series, but something is still missing.

[Blitzkrieg]

Just use a basic principle of

does a Solar system go here yes/no
how many planets/what type etc
what goes there, yardy yarda

Use the Elite (yes I will keep mentioning it) basis for moving from one place to another with a few Star Trek tweaks, consider then the payability (ship to ship) far more and build some AI and an economy plus political system. Ok not too much to do so far, erm I cant see any problems.

WAIT....The only problems I can see is getting it online, the sort of system required to manage such a Universe would be all but impossible considering todays servers and networks. If you think that this is possible, then be ready to pay large sums of money on a monthly basis for somthing that would be literaly out of this world and beyond anything ever attempted before.

Ok - time out Blitz  

 

[nattydread]

So how much would you be willing to pay for this game, how much do you think it will cost.   I currently pay $13 a month for one game I have.  I'd pay that for this game.

Yes the game does have a RPG aspect to it, that the goal.  I assum Asheron's Call woul dhave to track similar, maybe more, info then this game would. Granted its a Microsoft game  so the resources are there, but I wager that the info required to be saved wouldnt be much for each player.  The server wouldnt need to handle everything, much of the wrok would be client side, the server just needs to relay most  info to players in the same system, only a small bit would be required to relay universe/quadrant wide(star system specs).  This would be even smaller bits of info for text and icons for maps and missions.  The thing is, each players sphere of awareness for other players(likly the bulk of info transmitted and recieved by teh server) would be limited to the star system they are in.  A small seperate map and chat server would handle most universe/quadrant wide info.
The good thing about the idea is that its expandable.  The universe doesnt have to supper big in the beginning.  They can increase it as it becomes neccessary.

[nattydread]

shameless attempt to keep th epost from dying.  Hopefully it'll be seen by someone in Taldren who can make use of it.  Gee whiz, im just giving it away!

[Raptor013]

I'd pay that much to play it.  

[nattydread]

one last shameless bump.  its been awhile.

[nx_adam_1701]

I love the ideas, Nattydread, wonderful game indeed, Id even pay $20 a month, we pay much more on crap, atleast this money goes to entertainment that we all want, about the warp, I could see where thats a problem but I think a scale should be done, I mean if your warping from one solar system to an adjacent solar system it should only be maybe like half a minute or so..., eervyy additional one should be 30 seconds, so if you want to travel 5 , itll take 2 minutes and a half, i mean you want something realistic right  lol lol its hard to figure out, get a soda or beer past the time lol, but serious, now warp should be standard for science missions, maximum should be used for emergencies, now my idea for traveling far is make several worm holes, i mean we have some stable ones in Star Trek, so we cheat, find new ones, ok  i mean OMG theres a distress call from a federation ship in sector yadada ok itll take me 2 minutes to reach the nearest wormhole from there I will get closer i mean everyone wants to eat there cake and eat it too, its difficult the warp thing because if we do like BC itll be unrealistic, ok a war breaks out, everybody and their mother will get to the cordinates in seconds, thats not fair to the attackers, it has to be realistic not everyone get there instantly, the wormholes are a good idea to speed things up. Now about the huge amount of space and boring missions, i mean there should be some patches continuously to make sure that new things are in place, like a deadly virus, or a star explosion, pirates, new species discovered, we all enjoy watching star trek, i love it thats for sure, but there are alot of episodes that had no fighting envolved, alot of science and exploration DS9 was about the only one that had fights atleast every other episode lol lol, the patches can make new things every now and then, maybe a species just learned about warp drive, and now theyre entering space, good science missions where we could be surprised, plus aint wont be that boring with tons of people invovled, i mean everybody isnt going to be part of the same race everyone will be unique, if a ferengi vessel stole cargo from a federation ship which happens often lol, then someone will investigate, i dont know, im just throwing stuff out there, the borg have transwarp gates, i see that they wont have a problem getting anywhere lol, last but not least, the wormholes can solve alot, and the continuous patches everynow and then can solve the boringness of the exploration, i mean if people constantly make mods for these games, a program should be made for some people to make new bases, species, missions etc...

adam out

[nattydread]

Isnt it time to take Star Trek to the next level of multiplayer experience?  This is in no offense to the designers...really, but for me Star Trek is an organism that lives and evolves.  Actions in one place affect things in another.  I cant help but feel that single isolated conflicts get tiring very soon.  Excuse me if this has been mentioned or discussed before.  
There is nothing more rewarding than playing with a purpose, a purpose that extends farther than the end of the present battle.  I mean a purpose where youplay, go to sleep and wake up, get back on the game and see the ripples your drop in the pond created.  Granted they wont be the same, but they wouldnt be exactly what they are if you hadnt added you rpart.  The big question, when will all that has been developed to make these Star Trek games great, go into creating a Persistent Universe?  One where the RPG, action, mulitplayer, campaign and politics of Star Trek come together.  A place where the dynamics of gameplay not only allows for war ships(which we all love) but also for research vessels and  merchant ships to be  embraced.  Where you can be part of a major empire or be a neutral merchant or even a mercenary.  Where a nebula may be a great hiding place for a stricken war ship during combat, or a research bonanza for a research ship in a quiet and peaceful star system(for the time being!).  Where planets houses an empires mining facilty( or orbital station, production plant, etc),  who's value requires defense and protection  by the owning empire, but a target of attack for opposing empires and a hub for the owning  empire's merchant frieghters(maybe neutral freighters too).  A universe where fighting benefits you(if you win) and exploring benefits the empire.  Every interaction(fighting, exploring, researching, discovering) provides credit toward improvement.  A universe where all star systems are charted, but not all info is present.  A game where entering and the scanning a star system gives you the opportunity to discover  planets, nebulas, astroid belts, etc, and to determine if they have suitable resources which are relevant for imperial expansion, strengthen the empire(finding suitable levels of resource causes a CPU controlled freighter to warp in and begin construction, defend it and the construction).  Where  gaining perstige is also  through exploration and not just combat.  A universe where your empire doesnt gain knowledge on an unclaimed star system unless someone from that empire goes out and explores it.  A Universe where  enough losses in resource facilities for an empire affects how well a  Star Base  makes repairs on your ship, if the next ship you spawn is at 100%, the caliber of selectable officers, etc.  Lack of empire wide resources will create shortages in teh outter reaches of teh empire, forcing you to travel to your empire's core systems just to get a complete repair, or  better upgrades.   Weak empires are of course open for conquering!
A universe where you can go in peace or live by the sword. A universe where you can go out on your own and be solitary, or work as a team.  Where you can do for self or do for the empire through selectable missions(of course there are benefits to doing for the empire, you get mission bonuses).
This to me is the future of Star Trek and Star Trek deserves nothing less. When this day comes Star Trek will leave the realm of game and become teh Star Trek experience, the Star Trek exhistence.
Like I said I apologize if this or something similar has been discussed before, but its just where my heart is at right now, and felt the need to vent.  

[Son of Technobabble]

Beautiful dream...
Add Continuous space and you get the game

[nattydread]

Thanks for the reply.  Its nice to know my dream is deemed worthwhile!  Its theraputic!

[Raptor013]

That is exactly what I would love to see.  The game would be totally different every time you play.  With continuous space, you could sneak, or try, at least, to sneak a small armada of ships into enemy territory for a surgical strike, or organize a massive assault on enemy borders.  Aside from war, the exploration would appeal to me quite a bit.  I'm the type of person who likes to be able to relax every now and then and see the sights.  Constant fighting can get old.  What has been described above in this post is what I'd consider THE perfect game.  I've been following the develpment of a game called Freelancer.  The universe is a persistent one where your actions have consequences.  I would definitely love to see this in SFC.  

[nattydread]

Of course the concept of continuous space is required.  The cool thing is thi scan all be on one big server, or broken up amoungst several servers.  Each star system would compose plenty of dead space outside of it, but warping to and from star systems would be the same weither the universe  was composed of one or several servers.  You couldnt travel between systems without warp anyway.  This may mean you are always limited to being in a star system when not in warp.  But if star systems  are created  big enough who would care(I hope I didnt just lose most of ya'll support).  If people insist on being able to travel in between systems at sub-warp, Im sure it can be figured out.  I guess techinically all worlds will be linked like a web, and if each intersection of the web(star systems) can be modeled, maybe each thread linking them can be of modeled dead space, inter-space. Each will have to be limited in size though Im sure.  God, that would be difficult to model and track without the navigation code having a 3D model of the modeled universe to properly place you if  decide to drop out of warp all of a sudden.  Or, they could have to be coded as destinations that once you engage, you cant stop(unlike intra-system warp, which could be done in modeled inter-space.
 

[nattydread]

I cant remember if i added this, Im too lazy to go back and check...plus Im supposed to be studying for my Insurance exam(my wife is going to kill me!)
Players should also be able to play as neutral parties. These ships wont be as good as the Imperial ships, but it adds a whole new aspect to the game.  As a neutral ship your survival when encountered by an imperial ship is always in question.  You should be safe in neutral and un-claimed areas, but thats not promised.  Neutral war-ships would be inferior to their imperial counter-parts(good merceranry ships), but the merchant/cargo ships/freighters would have the potential to gain other advantages, like:  Greater ECM(for smuggling) , higher speeds. Draw backs may be less manuverabilty, weaker weapons(good rear firing weapons because you will be running from war ships if caught).  I figure, there will be missions for neutral ships in neutral  and unclaimed areas, but on occassion you may get a high paying mission in imperial territories.  You may not be told in teh mission that its in imperial territory, so its always a good idea to scan the star system when you get there, and scan & identify the owner of your pick/drop off point.  Making a delivery at a Klingon colony may be construde as smuggling.  ECM may help hide your cargo from imperial sensors(a load of weapon grade material to, or a load of cloaking devices on a neutral ship from a klingon colony looks bad to the captain of the Klingon ship), but it may also give you away.  too much ECM looks like you are hiding something...not too mention, why are you there anyway?  So knowledge is power, scanning and picking up a klingon war-ship may mean leaving and coming back later, or dipping behind a moon, or hiding in a nebula until the coast is clear.

[Raptor013]

You have some very good ideas.  Whereas I think it would be better to be able to drop out of warp in deep space, that may not be able to be done on such a large scale.  In that case, your previous idea would be a good way to work around that.  Your idea for neutral ships, actually, I was thinking about since my previous post.  I think it would add more flavor to the game.  I would love SFC to reside in a persistent universe.  The universe would constantly change.  It wouldn't just be the same old thing over and over again.  

[nattydread]

Actually thought th eidea up and wrot eit out this week.  If more are interseted and deem worth while, i just might post it here.  Its prety long though and would be composed mostly of what I posted before.  I think it draws the idea together a little better.

[Raptor013]

I, for one, would be glad to read more of your ideas.  We seem to have many of the same wishes for the game.  

[Whiplash]

This continuous space would need to be very large to have the sort of feel most of us are talking about. It would have to be some considerable effort to sneak an armada deep into enemy territory. Move the fleet to a critical location, through several star systems where you could be detected. Meet up with a supply convoy you also had to sneak into the area. Convoy hides and waits for your return as you fly another dozen systems deep into enemy territory.

I don't think continuous space needs to be actually continuous. Only the areas around stars are of interest 99% of the time.

W.
 

[Raptor013]

That's true.  It would get boring to some to have to travel through deep space for some time.  Still, I wouldn't mind it.  

[Whiplash]

How long should it take a player to get from one star system to another? I'm thinking 1-2 minutes at warp.

It'd be cool to have multiple warp speeds (1-9) with say 5-6 being average, and a penalty or game disincentive for going faster. An extra fuel cost and maintenance cost to the engines, taking away some of those hard-earned prestige, for example. Then you'd be warp-9-ing only under dire circumstances, when you need to get there fast.

W.
 

[Son of Technobabble]

Quote:
How long should it take a player to get from one star system to another? I'm thinking 1-2 minutes at warp.

Well some people are already complaining about the 45 sec wait time of the Dyna3. I know it isn't the same but it could get really boring to spend most of your time just watching the stars pass; it could take you a lot of time to actually find something to do.

I think that the true problem about continuous space is in fact where would you be between two star systems, or nebulas or whichever other important places. The question is how to manage all that empty space where nothing really important ever happens. That would be some "continuous" space indeed, but I am unsure of how playable and fun it would be. I think that warp between sectors should be handled more like in BC (ie instant warp) but for as long as you don't warp, you can drift in space all you want. That would limit "freedom" but would be necessary IMO to allow the game to go on. There could be nevertheless empty space sectors in strategical places to be used as ambush points, fleet gathering locations and such. After all, being an explorer must be a boring life in about a 90%, and who would buy a game that is boring in a 90%?

My two cents.  

[32nd Halcyon]

This sounds cool. I'm all for that. Has anyone heard about star wars galaxies? this is generally the same thing. Warping like in BC would answer the issue of spending hours in the dead of space. how ever this raises a question that should be dealt with. the question of time and how do you measure it with rehards to the rest of the server and they're other players. Normally warping would take a serious amount of time. Time that others could be engaged in prestige gaining missions.
how could that be remedied?

The whole idea is grand. I wish it could be a reality. Much like Everquest for the Trek genre. Imagine an armada of ships going through the wormhole to take on the Dominion! That would rock. I suppose Federation research could look at creating "Transwarp Conduits" this would allow for fast movement and nearly seemless game play between servers.