Topic: I love the series, but something is still missing.  (Read 11857 times)

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Jackal99

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Re: I love the series, but something is still miss
« Reply #20 on: January 26, 2003, 11:04:45 am »
@nattydread

that would be the PERFECT ST-game, great idea of yours and a great post as well  .

well done
 

Raptor013

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Re: I love the series, but something is still miss
« Reply #21 on: January 26, 2003, 09:04:11 pm »
I assure you I have not lost interest.  I read your post and I think your ideas are great.  It would be nice to see them implemented in the game.  

nattydread

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Re: I love the series, but something is still miss
« Reply #22 on: January 26, 2003, 10:01:51 pm »
Glad you all like.  The hope is that Taldren will be interested in it and take it.  I'll give it to them if they'll run with it!  My only goal is to see it realized so I can play it.  


As mentioned(in case you missed it), if yu have time and dont mind, polease try and break the model by thinking of scenerios and situtations that may cause kinks and post them here.  Also if you have any questions or not sure how something would play out, please post them here.  I want to amke sure the game model is solid.
Thanks!
« Last Edit: January 26, 2003, 11:31:09 pm by nattydread »

Son of Technobabble

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Re: I love the series, but something is still miss
« Reply #23 on: January 27, 2003, 06:42:27 am »
I'd definitely buy that

kitten

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Re: I love the series, but something is still miss
« Reply #24 on: January 27, 2003, 08:32:39 am »
wonderful ideas, but i fear that you are asking for too much.

maybe something simpler, like a 'battlefield 1942' set in a sci-fi universe?

don't get me wrong, i love your ideas, but i'm afraid of making the game that tries to be everything, and ends up not being made at all, or poorly (BC3K).
   

nattydread

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Re: I love the series, but something is still miss
« Reply #25 on: January 27, 2003, 06:52:46 pm »
Kitten:
Understood Kitten but if it was like BF1942, it would be just like every other multiplayer game.  A simple shoot out at the OK Corral(sp?) .  I also feel its do-able and it would be too much for those unwilling to make the effort.  The resulting revolution in genre I think is worth it all.  Not too mention this next-step in multilayer gaming is being done already in Dungeons & Dragons type RPGs and a WWII simulator right now.  You see to me,  simple small scale battles with repeated spawns(without consequence), limited space and single-minded intentions are nothing more than a simplistic, tactically and strategically insulting, perversion of combat and war.  Its just a prolonged skirmish in a bottle!  Now that isnt an insult to the folks who makes this game, its just the nature of teh genre.  One that I accepted for so long until I saw and realized that there is something more that is missing.  I've done the mulitpayer battle thing since Rainbow 6 when it was the pinnicale of this revolutionary genre...but its getting old.  
I begin to realize that there is more to war, combat, etc than just the fight.  The fight is the final piece in a tapestry thats been building up to the engagement.  Ideally, those things done before the engagment have almost or more to do with the outcome then the men and machines themselves.  These are some of things that are missing and need inclusion in order to have a more comprehensive and satisfying battle.  
First thing, war isnt fighting 100% of the time.   In current games everybody is in combat mode 100%, there are no lulls, no opportunity to drop one's guard.  That makes real surprise attacks, ambushes, etc impossible.  My idea creates situtations that draws one attention from combat.  Yes, the threat of hostilities does exhist in the back of your head, but there is a differnece between having your gun holstered knowing there is a threat, compared to walking around with your rifle shouldered 100% of the time looking for your next target.  In fact Ive been thinking about the shields.  Im thinking within my game idea there has to be a reason to keep people from having their shield up all time(besides it being an act of hostilty), shields are never up 100% of the time in Star Trek episodes unless under threat.  
Second, Id like damage to and destroyed vesels to matter.  Even if people can repeatly spawn new ones(with consequnces), the idea that I can affect the players I encounter to the point where they fear the consequences of their own losses means:
* players will think twice about wasting ones ships irresponsibly
* the intrinsic desire to live basically becomes attrition of units as players conceed to stronger and more coordinated forces, thus going to other areas or coordinating a suitable counter-attack
* for the first time you'll see real tactical retreats, value of the area/situtation, etc and liklihood of losses will determine the neccessity to stay and fight.  Sometimes its better to retreat, repair and re-group in order to live another day so that one can take back what was lost and/or crush those who had the upper-hand on you.
* one's desire for survival will generate more team oriented and coordinated operations
* Finally the elimination of the "bloodlust" type gameplay we've been cursed with!  War is not about killing, war is about attaining goals...it just so happens killing is often required.  One who stands over the fallen to insure his death is ignoring his reason for being there anyway, it also opens you up for attack by his commrade.  Instead, elimnate your foe as a threat and continue with the mission at hand.  
 
Now I do realize my idea is complex and it does require a lot.  Because of this Ive come accept that some stuff may have to be left out, but the concept of a large inter-linked network of systems, resource allocation, XP accumilation and research/exploration must stay.  These are the basis of the experience with neutral parties, merchant and frieghter vessels being expendable.

 

   

Raptor013

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Re: I love the series, but something is still miss
« Reply #26 on: January 27, 2003, 08:49:44 pm »
I agree with you completely.  I like the SFC games, but, the gameplay seems almost mindless.  I mean no disrespect to anyone or the game, itself.  The game is quite enjoyable.  I'm just saying that I'd like something fresher.  Something that the players can actually make a difference in and have everyone else in the game feel the impact of each player's actions.  

kitten

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Re: I love the series, but something is still miss
« Reply #27 on: January 27, 2003, 09:19:35 pm »
i have to wonder how many people would enjoy logging in to play for a few hours, and spend that time on patrol, with no enemy encounter?

the game has to be fun, too.

 

kitten

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Re: I love the series, but something is still miss
« Reply #28 on: January 27, 2003, 09:22:39 pm »
instead of auto-respawning, what if you had to pay for each character on the server? oooh, that would be evil.

 

Aliasalpha

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Re: I love the series, but something is still miss
« Reply #29 on: January 27, 2003, 10:41:32 pm »
It'd sure as hell stop ME from playing...  

nattydread

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Re: I love the series, but something is still miss
« Reply #30 on: January 28, 2003, 01:29:09 am »
Trust me, i dont think you'd have a problem finding a fight.  First, missions aret required, they just provide bonuses.  The idea of the game is that it gives you flexibilty in game play.  EWS  and distress calls alone will bring plenty of attention to you if you decide to wreck havoc!!  EWS and distress calls will also tell you where to find action(warping makes engagments almost immediate).  Certain areas will likly draw a lot of action, people who want to fight will know where to go.  Those who want to figt will nothave a problem finding a fight.  The reason is because most people, all people at one time or another, will be looking to pick a fight...trust me!!  Even the most researchor neutral oriented person is going to go looking for a little phaser luvin' at time or another.  
Patrols will be for those behind the scene type people, those who recognize the value of a target and realize that like minded people will eventually come for it.  Its a great way to gain XP without needing to fight or when things are slow.  Patrols are no more than what you'd be doing in a star system anyway.  But like I said, if you wanna fight, just warp into an oppossing empires territory, find a star system with a resource facility and bombard it, the EWS will alert everyone in the oppossing empire, the distress call from the attack will let em know you mean business...this will bring more than enough people to fight(so bring a friend!!)
Push goes to shove they can create a few centralized contested star systems, it would be an area located near all the imperial territories(like the center hub on a nuclear symbol).  This area would be a free-fire area with no missions, go in and shoot willy-nilly until your heart's content.  
Also, a patrol mission wouldnt be for an hour, it would be like 20-30 mins.
« Last Edit: January 31, 2003, 07:41:30 pm by nattydread »

Blitzkrieg

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Re: I love the series, but something is still miss
« Reply #31 on: January 28, 2003, 04:14:26 am »
Sure there are problems with this but after all its somthing far greater and more grand a gesture than what is being put forward today. As I said before, have you played Elite? Seriously go download Elite 2 or 3, 1 if you really want to know what it was all about.

Elite online but with more of team approach and Star Trek feel, surely this is gota be the apple in some developers eye?

****Edit****

Doh I just did that and forgot, it only runs in pure Dos mode. You will just have to take my word for it lol.
« Last Edit: January 28, 2003, 04:29:54 am by Blitzkrieg »

nattydread

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Re: I love the series, but something is still miss
« Reply #32 on: January 28, 2003, 05:18:38 am »
Naw, never played Elite.   I really hope someome picks this up.  Im starting see myself become more and more dissatified with games out right now.  Developing this in my head as sort of brought to light all thats missing 99% of the multiplayer games currently out there.   I need something to keep me interested, to fulfill those gaming needs Ive developed.  I play one game that is doing it(differnet game setting),  but they are taking so much time to get it together that its driving me crazy.   They are creating the complete game, thats why I know it can be done with Star Trek.  Either one would be good, having both would mean i wouldnt see the sun for weeks.

nattydread

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Re: I love the series, but something is still miss
« Reply #33 on: January 28, 2003, 08:02:35 pm »
I was thinking about the whole shields and weapons powered up 100% of the time issue(if you see it as an issue).   I figure let shields and weapons slowly, very slowly, drain XP until an enemy or neutral vessel is targeted.  Once targeted the XP drain is stopped, 5 mins after the last lock the timer starts again if shields and weapons remained powered up.

I have also been thinking about a longe range strike weapon.  Im sure this has been discused before, it obvious Star Trek vessels are based on mid-century naval warships.  The basics being in vessel class and basic weapons: i.e. phasers are main guns, torpedos are torpedos, I assume cloaked vessels are the equivilant of a submarine, shuttles have been experimented as carrier fighters, etc.  The thing is should we stay with the basic post WWII parallels or attempt parallel modern developments in naval warfare.   Ill discuss this later, back to strike weapons.  What happened to the equivilent of the Harpoon anti-ship missle? Basically a long range strike weapon that is a projectile in limited numbers(3-5), limited power(no more or even less than a torpedo), single shot, with tracking capabilities, but limited manuverabilty.  Its basically a first-strike stand-off weapons that can be locked on and destroyed by a single phaser/disruptor shot.  Its basically a destroyer and crusier type weapon that is useless against crusier class and smaller type vessels( unless slow and unaware). Its main goal is to provide a pre-emptive strike against large capital ships with strong shields and armor but low manuverabilty(of course the sheer amount of guns may still make them pointless except under the right conditions...a little luck helps too).  I figured every race would have a sligtly different kind.  Klingons would have high damage rating, but the excess weight and sub-standard sensors makes it less accurate.  Romulans would have a cloaking version with a significantly lower damage rating( because the cloaking device takes up space)  The missile could possibly de-cloak in the target vicinity for various reasons: To gain a proper fix on its target, maybe the missle cant track well while cloaked, to route power for final manuvering, weapon charge up, etc.  Feds would have a modrate damage rating with good tracking.  All would have a secondary "area burst" if the target is missed, but still within range...it will nothave th eabilty to come-back around for a second pass.
I also thought about:  What happened to the ASW helos/planes(sub hunters) or AWAC veseels(they'd occupy similar roles in this game.  AWACs would basically be a small vessel with one hell of a sensor array to help detect cloaked vessels, but minimal defensive weapons, their prescence could provide a small increase in detecing cloaked vessels for all in the area of teh same empire.  Speed and manuverabilty would be its saving grace.  The ASW would be similar but it would have limited torpedos available and small phaser compliment.  It would be slower than the AWAC and more power-limited because of its weapons.  Power-management would be key, avoiding enemy fire is essential.  These vessels are mainly of use only against cloaked vessels...and cloaked anti-ship missle too.  They are more equivilent to the ship launched helios and very vulnerable.  
I thought about fighters, but honestly fighters are only threats to other fighters or light torpedo or bombers planes.  Plus fighters, torpedo planes and bombers are usually carrier or land based. Fighters are mainly pointless against a ships and torpedo/bombers are mainly single use...once again pointless unless AI controlled.  They would be good for star base defense though.  I personally dont see how a carrier could hold its own with dedicated escort and defense by capital ships.  Basically the Star Base is the closest thing to a carrier, slow, large but its well defended and another good platform for use of an anti-ship missle...for or against!!  
« Last Edit: January 29, 2003, 01:17:14 am by nattydread »

Raptor013

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Re: I love the series, but something is still miss
« Reply #34 on: January 28, 2003, 09:10:00 pm »
No one game is going to please everyone.  If they don't want to play it, they don't have to.  The point is, there will be people who will truly enjoy that type of game.  As nattydread said, it wouldn't take hours to find a fight.  I, for one, just want a fresh gaming experience.  I just want a more colorful gaming experience in the Star Trek universe.  These are some good ideas.  I believe this type of game would have far more replay value.  It would, definitely, keep me coming back for more.  

nattydread

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Re: I love the series, but something is still miss
« Reply #35 on: January 31, 2003, 02:16:24 am »
No new ideas, thoughts, etc?  I see a lot of reads, but not many comments.  I was hoping for more feed-back to insure this was a viable idea for which I thought any Trekkie would appreciate and push to implemented.   For those reading this, but didnt comment, what are your opinions, desires, etc?  This isnt so much for me, but for all of us.  Its for the Star Trek genre to insure its progress and isnt limited to its current form.  If you think the idea is worthwhile, or not, please chime in.

Atrahasis

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Re: I love the series, but something is still miss
« Reply #36 on: January 31, 2003, 03:37:14 am »
You know what? A game like that will be made some day.  

nattydread

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Re: I love the series, but something is still miss
« Reply #37 on: January 31, 2003, 07:01:22 am »
yeah, I figured that, but why eventually...why not now?  It can be done, it doesnt require any new technology, it can use current graphics so it shouldnt require any more of a system than current games.  Its so do-able, why wait?

Raptor013

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Re: I love the series, but something is still miss
« Reply #38 on: January 31, 2003, 01:23:50 pm »
I agree that the ability to create such a game does exist.  It may be a few years before we see the game you speak of.  I'm no programmer, so I have no idea how long it would take.  I just know it would take a long time.  My mind has been a bit slow lately, but, if a good idea pops in my head, I'll post it.  

SghnDubh

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Re: I love the series, but something is still miss
« Reply #39 on: January 31, 2003, 02:12:51 pm »

So, in a nutshell,

EverQuest meets Star Trek.

Is that the take on this idea?