Topic: I love the series, but something is still missing.  (Read 11853 times)

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nattydread

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I love the series, but something is still missing.
« on: January 23, 2003, 05:37:44 pm »
Isnt it time to take Star Trek to the next level of multiplayer experience?  This is in no offense to the designers...really, but for me Star Trek is an organism that lives and evolves.  Actions in one place affect things in another.  I cant help but feel that single isolated conflicts get tiring very soon.  Excuse me if this has been mentioned or discussed before.  
There is nothing more rewarding than playing with a purpose, a purpose that extends farther than the end of the present battle.  I mean a purpose where youplay, go to sleep and wake up, get back on the game and see the ripples your drop in the pond created.  Granted they wont be the same, but they wouldnt be exactly what they are if you hadnt added you rpart.  The big question, when will all that has been developed to make these Star Trek games great, go into creating a Persistent Universe?  One where the RPG, action, mulitplayer, campaign and politics of Star Trek come together.  A place where the dynamics of gameplay not only allows for war ships(which we all love) but also for research vessels and  merchant ships to be  embraced.  Where you can be part of a major empire or be a neutral merchant or even a mercenary.  Where a nebula may be a great hiding place for a stricken war ship during combat, or a research bonanza for a research ship in a quiet and peaceful star system(for the time being!).  Where planets houses an empires mining facilty( or orbital station, production plant, etc),  who's value requires defense and protection  by the owning empire, but a target of attack for opposing empires and a hub for the owning  empire's merchant frieghters(maybe neutral freighters too).  A universe where fighting benefits you(if you win) and exploring benefits the empire.  Every interaction(fighting, exploring, researching, discovering) provides credit toward improvement.  A universe where all star systems are charted, but not all info is present.  A game where entering and the scanning a star system gives you the opportunity to discover  planets, nebulas, astroid belts, etc, and to determine if they have suitable resources which are relevant for imperial expansion, strengthen the empire(finding suitable levels of resource causes a CPU controlled freighter to warp in and begin construction, defend it and the construction).  Where  gaining perstige is also  through exploration and not just combat.  A universe where your empire doesnt gain knowledge on an unclaimed star system unless someone from that empire goes out and explores it.  A Universe where  enough losses in resource facilities for an empire affects how well a  Star Base  makes repairs on your ship, if the next ship you spawn is at 100%, the caliber of selectable officers, etc.  Lack of empire wide resources will create shortages in teh outter reaches of teh empire, forcing you to travel to your empire's core systems just to get a complete repair, or  better upgrades.   Weak empires are of course open for conquering!
A universe where you can go in peace or live by the sword. A universe where you can go out on your own and be solitary, or work as a team.  Where you can do for self or do for the empire through selectable missions(of course there are benefits to doing for the empire, you get mission bonuses).
This to me is the future of Star Trek and Star Trek deserves nothing less. When this day comes Star Trek will leave the realm of game and become teh Star Trek experience, the Star Trek exhistence.
Like I said I apologize if this or something similar has been discussed before, but its just where my heart is at right now, and felt the need to vent.  

Son of Technobabble

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Re: I love the series, but something is still missing.
« Reply #1 on: January 23, 2003, 06:35:25 pm »
Beautiful dream...
Add Continuous space and you get the game

nattydread

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Re: I love the series, but something is still missing.
« Reply #2 on: January 23, 2003, 07:22:10 pm »
Thanks for the reply.  Its nice to know my dream is deemed worthwhile!  Its theraputic!

Raptor013

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Re: I love the series, but something is still missing.
« Reply #3 on: January 23, 2003, 09:30:08 pm »
That is exactly what I would love to see.  The game would be totally different every time you play.  With continuous space, you could sneak, or try, at least, to sneak a small armada of ships into enemy territory for a surgical strike, or organize a massive assault on enemy borders.  Aside from war, the exploration would appeal to me quite a bit.  I'm the type of person who likes to be able to relax every now and then and see the sights.  Constant fighting can get old.  What has been described above in this post is what I'd consider THE perfect game.  I've been following the develpment of a game called Freelancer.  The universe is a persistent one where your actions have consequences.  I would definitely love to see this in SFC.  

nattydread

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Re: I love the series, but something is still missing.
« Reply #4 on: January 23, 2003, 09:52:15 pm »
Of course the concept of continuous space is required.  The cool thing is thi scan all be on one big server, or broken up amoungst several servers.  Each star system would compose plenty of dead space outside of it, but warping to and from star systems would be the same weither the universe  was composed of one or several servers.  You couldnt travel between systems without warp anyway.  This may mean you are always limited to being in a star system when not in warp.  But if star systems  are created  big enough who would care(I hope I didnt just lose most of ya'll support).  If people insist on being able to travel in between systems at sub-warp, Im sure it can be figured out.  I guess techinically all worlds will be linked like a web, and if each intersection of the web(star systems) can be modeled, maybe each thread linking them can be of modeled dead space, inter-space. Each will have to be limited in size though Im sure.  God, that would be difficult to model and track without the navigation code having a 3D model of the modeled universe to properly place you if  decide to drop out of warp all of a sudden.  Or, they could have to be coded as destinations that once you engage, you cant stop(unlike intra-system warp, which could be done in modeled inter-space.
 

nattydread

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Re: I love the series, but something is still missing.
« Reply #5 on: January 23, 2003, 10:08:14 pm »
I cant remember if i added this, Im too lazy to go back and check...plus Im supposed to be studying for my Insurance exam(my wife is going to kill me!)
Players should also be able to play as neutral parties. These ships wont be as good as the Imperial ships, but it adds a whole new aspect to the game.  As a neutral ship your survival when encountered by an imperial ship is always in question.  You should be safe in neutral and un-claimed areas, but thats not promised.  Neutral war-ships would be inferior to their imperial counter-parts(good merceranry ships), but the merchant/cargo ships/freighters would have the potential to gain other advantages, like:  Greater ECM(for smuggling) , higher speeds. Draw backs may be less manuverabilty, weaker weapons(good rear firing weapons because you will be running from war ships if caught).  I figure, there will be missions for neutral ships in neutral  and unclaimed areas, but on occassion you may get a high paying mission in imperial territories.  You may not be told in teh mission that its in imperial territory, so its always a good idea to scan the star system when you get there, and scan & identify the owner of your pick/drop off point.  Making a delivery at a Klingon colony may be construde as smuggling.  ECM may help hide your cargo from imperial sensors(a load of weapon grade material to, or a load of cloaking devices on a neutral ship from a klingon colony looks bad to the captain of the Klingon ship), but it may also give you away.  too much ECM looks like you are hiding something...not too mention, why are you there anyway?  So knowledge is power, scanning and picking up a klingon war-ship may mean leaving and coming back later, or dipping behind a moon, or hiding in a nebula until the coast is clear.

Raptor013

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Re: I love the series, but something is still missing.
« Reply #6 on: January 23, 2003, 11:50:30 pm »
You have some very good ideas.  Whereas I think it would be better to be able to drop out of warp in deep space, that may not be able to be done on such a large scale.  In that case, your previous idea would be a good way to work around that.  Your idea for neutral ships, actually, I was thinking about since my previous post.  I think it would add more flavor to the game.  I would love SFC to reside in a persistent universe.  The universe would constantly change.  It wouldn't just be the same old thing over and over again.  

nattydread

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Re: I love the series, but something is still missing.
« Reply #7 on: January 24, 2003, 12:22:52 am »
Actually thought th eidea up and wrot eit out this week.  If more are interseted and deem worth while, i just might post it here.  Its prety long though and would be composed mostly of what I posted before.  I think it draws the idea together a little better.

Raptor013

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Re: I love the series, but something is still missing.
« Reply #8 on: January 24, 2003, 12:44:28 am »
I, for one, would be glad to read more of your ideas.  We seem to have many of the same wishes for the game.  

Whiplash

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Re: I love the series, but something is still miss
« Reply #9 on: January 24, 2003, 06:49:06 am »
This continuous space would need to be very large to have the sort of feel most of us are talking about. It would have to be some considerable effort to sneak an armada deep into enemy territory. Move the fleet to a critical location, through several star systems where you could be detected. Meet up with a supply convoy you also had to sneak into the area. Convoy hides and waits for your return as you fly another dozen systems deep into enemy territory.

I don't think continuous space needs to be actually continuous. Only the areas around stars are of interest 99% of the time.

W.
 

Raptor013

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Re: I love the series, but something is still miss
« Reply #10 on: January 24, 2003, 02:00:57 pm »
That's true.  It would get boring to some to have to travel through deep space for some time.  Still, I wouldn't mind it.  

Whiplash

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Re: I love the series, but something is still miss
« Reply #11 on: January 24, 2003, 02:59:53 pm »
How long should it take a player to get from one star system to another? I'm thinking 1-2 minutes at warp.

It'd be cool to have multiple warp speeds (1-9) with say 5-6 being average, and a penalty or game disincentive for going faster. An extra fuel cost and maintenance cost to the engines, taking away some of those hard-earned prestige, for example. Then you'd be warp-9-ing only under dire circumstances, when you need to get there fast.

W.
 

Son of Technobabble

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Re: I love the series, but something is still miss
« Reply #12 on: January 24, 2003, 04:20:43 pm »
Quote:

How long should it take a player to get from one star system to another? I'm thinking 1-2 minutes at warp.





Well some people are already complaining about the 45 sec wait time of the Dyna3. I know it isn't the same but it could get really boring to spend most of your time just watching the stars pass; it could take you a lot of time to actually find something to do.

I think that the true problem about continuous space is in fact where would you be between two star systems, or nebulas or whichever other important places. The question is how to manage all that empty space where nothing really important ever happens. That would be some "continuous" space indeed, but I am unsure of how playable and fun it would be. I think that warp between sectors should be handled more like in BC (ie instant warp) but for as long as you don't warp, you can drift in space all you want. That would limit "freedom" but would be necessary IMO to allow the game to go on. There could be nevertheless empty space sectors in strategical places to be used as ambush points, fleet gathering locations and such. After all, being an explorer must be a boring life in about a 90%, and who would buy a game that is boring in a 90%?

My two cents.  
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 06:00:00 pm by Son of Technobabble »

32nd Halcyon

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Re: I love the series, but something is still miss
« Reply #13 on: January 24, 2003, 05:09:26 pm »
This sounds cool. I'm all for that. Has anyone heard about star wars galaxies? this is generally the same thing. Warping like in BC would answer the issue of spending hours in the dead of space. how ever this raises a question that should be dealt with. the question of time and how do you measure it with rehards to the rest of the server and they're other players. Normally warping would take a serious amount of time. Time that others could be engaged in prestige gaining missions.
how could that be remedied?

The whole idea is grand. I wish it could be a reality. Much like Everquest for the Trek genre. Imagine an armada of ships going through the wormhole to take on the Dominion! That would rock. I suppose Federation research could look at creating "Transwarp Conduits" this would allow for fast movement and nearly seemless game play between servers.

nattydread

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Re: I love the series, but something is still miss
« Reply #14 on: January 24, 2003, 06:43:15 pm »
Im unfamiliar with the term warp BC. I personally dont have a problem with 1-2 min warp times based on warp speed an distance.  Anything more woul dbe problematic Id think for the casual player.  The other concern would be if the universe was based on several linked servers.  Part of the warp time would occupied with loading into the next server and loading the area objects.  These times will vary based on connection speed, connection interruptions, and computer system.  I guess any anomalies this may cause can always be attributed to in-warp difficulties, delays, detours, etc.  This does mean leaving a system before or at a higher warp speed than another, doesnt gaurantee you will arrive first.  
In terms of sneaking armadas in, I shoul dlet it be known that I invisioned a Early Warning System(EWS) that would send up alerts whenever enemy ship entered an occupied system(it might alert for neutrals also)  Yes you could sneak around in neutral and unclaimed areas(imperial ships would send EWS alerts to neutral ships in neutral areas possibly) but the element of surprise leaves once you enter hostile space.  Supply convoys werent invisioned to aid aramadas in attacks, but if its possible and desired, Im sure it could be worked out.  I understand the idea to be complex already, there is some attempt to keep it it somewhat simplified.   The Idea of sneaking armadas in for attack was a desired option and part of teh vision.
I'll be posting the full write out later today.  I have teh idea basically complete, with additional small tweaks evolving daily.  

p.s I do believe there should be some cost "penalty" for high warp speeds.  Im not sure if its applicable, but perhaps the lithium crystals are expendable and higher warp speeds would expend them faster, requiring the purchase of a new one.  Its rate of exhaustion needs to be finely balanced to deter excessive high warp uses, but not so much that people will be scared to use high warp when they need to.
In fact the hardest part of the game will likly be tryingto find teh priper balance in credits recieved for everything compared to cost in order to deter somethings and encourge others.  
« Last Edit: January 24, 2003, 06:50:25 pm by nattydread »

MrCue

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Re: I love the series, but something is still miss
« Reply #15 on: January 24, 2003, 08:00:19 pm »
Simple, Just give Bigger Warp cores Higer Warp Factors and longer Duration at High warp.

Job done.

Son of Technobabble

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Re: I love the series, but something is still miss
« Reply #16 on: January 24, 2003, 08:45:19 pm »
Quote:

Im unfamiliar with the term warp BC.




This is referred to the warp system used in Bridge Commander. In this system there is no "actual" space between two star systems. You warp out, and instantly you arrive to your destination.

Having it in another way would mean an infinite amount of empty space, provided you could not travel between star systems without warping (this seems logical). Considering it that way, you wouldn't be able to come out of warp between systems, since that would also require an infinite amount of space. Therefore I can't see the need for a interstellar space in which all you can do is watch the stars pass slower or faster depending on your warp factor.  

nattydread

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Re: I love the series, but something is still miss
« Reply #17 on: January 24, 2003, 10:52:41 pm »
Here is the gane idea as written yesterday, ill add any additional ideas at the end.  Warning, it is long!!

The spin I'm proposing for Star Trek is based on this persistent world concept, but coined as a persistent universe.  
The idea is to have several factions interact throughout this universe under defined political relations, but with individual choice of interaction.  The flexibility this game provides runs the full gambit of Star Trek reality.  A player can choose at anytime to play the full spectrum of roles ranging from research to military to neutral  vessels.  The choice to interact peacefully or aggressively and there will be benefits of both,  and all are likely to do both at one time or another.  Some will benefit more from one or the other because it is their role in game or because its an intrinsic desire for themselves.    
The Universe
One benefit of constructing a universe, or more accurately...a quadrant.  Is that the vast majority of its "landscape" is empty  This means large areas with occasional 3D intensive areas of celestial bodies in which to interact.  The Universe could be based on one or several servers.  The seamlessness of these servers is flexible considering travel from one star system to another would require warping. The warping visuals provide the "curtain" as you travel from server to server, or leave one area and pop up in another if using one single server.   The hope is to leave the universe expandable so that additions and changes can be made when appropriate(I'll go into this later).  
The Players
The Universe would be populated by several empires:  The Federation, Klingon, Romulan with possible various neutral, rebel and pirate factions. The Federation, Klingon and Romulans would all be player selectable, while various other factions would be CPU controlled and possibly player selectable also.  Each empire controls a sizable portion of the quadrant.  With the vast majority non-occupied and the rest controlled by small neutral races.  
Game Objectives
The universe is peppered with star systems consisting of planets, nebulas, asteroid belts, etc with varying levels of resource, scientific, and thus military value.  These systems will be spread amongst the Imperial territories and of course the unclaimed and neutral areas.  The goal is to explore these celestial bodies for qualifying levels of resources in order to set up resource facilities.  Many, if not most, celestial bodies will not have adequate resource levels.  A whole star system be void of celestial bodies with qualifying resource value.  Resource facilities will come in several forms including mining operations, productions facilities, etc.  These facilities consist of ground and/or orbital structures.   Many of those celestial bodies within an imperial territory will have production facilities present.  Those facilities on the fringes of the territories are of course in need of protection from rebels, pirates and of course players from opposing empires.  Not all resource rich celestial bodies will have facilities.  That's where exploration comes in.  "Go where no man has gone before"  Exploring your imperial territories and those areas unclaimed allows your empire to develop new resource facilities and expand their sphere of influence.  These newly acquired territories once unclaimed of course need protection.  One travels to star systems of unclaimed or fringe territories scan the area and systematically research its bodies.  Simply enter orbit or travel in close proximity and run the body through a series of scans.  It will take a little time, a couple of minutes or so, and boom the body is registered and the building of a production facility is set in motion.  A CPU controlled freighter warps in several minutes later, enters orbit and within 15mins or so a production facility, mining facility, etc is built.  The idea is that all star systems are known, with limit info on its make-up(i.e. celestial bodies composing it).  You have to warp to the system in order to scan the area for detailed information.  This allows you to locate all celestial bodies in area and to go to them.  As these bodies are scanned they are registered, meaning they are labeled discovered through out the empire.  Registering it also allows for more detailed info made available to those in the empire inquiring about that start system.  For instance, imperial info before discovery on a star system in unclaimed areas or fringe territories would provide the name of the star system and name of any known celestial bodies.  After discovery imperial info gives name of system all celestial bodies their class, resource value, facilities in system and celestial bodies they are associated with, etc.  Other empires can discover it, but its shown owned by the original discovering empire and they are required to scan the system in order to receive in-depth info for their empire.
All facilities can be taken over/destroyed or looted by other players or CPU controlled rebels, pirates, etc.  Defending these locations is key to the survival of the empire, as is acquiring new ones.  This isn't limited to ground based facilities, but orbiting logistic stations, freighters, science stations, etc.  Missions for such defensive mission will be auto-generated and offered to anyone in the area.  This means the starship discovering the resource rich planet which triggers the construction of a facility will receive the area defense request for protecting the construction of the facility.  After its completion, any friendly ship entering the area will receive a defense mission request.   Missions provide XP(experience points) after completion, which will be discussed later.  Mission are chosen from two windows,  an area mission list and a empire wide mission list.  The empire wide list will likely be large and can be condensed with filters.  
Missions can also come in the form of distress calls.  Facilities, freighters, stations, etc, under attack will emit distress calls, so if a supply freighter in-transit that hasn't received an escort despite its mission request can still receive help if attacked.  Of course a freighters ability to warp only makes it threatened while within the confines of a star system where warp is severely limited or prohibited.  This makes time before departure and time during arrival the most hazardous.  You can follow the freighter into warp and escort it on the other side also.  How do you know where the freighter is going?  Its mentioned in the mission request, but also if you a sensory lock on a vessel that goes into warp, its destination is "calculated" and provided(or a "follow" option is generated).  Everything else is usually on or in orbit of a celestial body.  Facilities will also have Early warning systems(EWS) that will generate warnings of enemy ships in the system.  Friendly ships warping in in response will of course receive the standard defense request mission.  
In addition to defending existing facilities, exploring new bodies, etc.  One can also attack opposing facilities.  All facilities are destroyable or capturable, depending on the facility, it take various numbers of marines.  In any case, one ship will not have enough marines to capture a facility.  One ship will have a hard time destroying a facility quickly.  This means bring friends!!!!  Capturing a facility minimizes the turn around time in getting the facility up and running.  As a star ship you will also run into CPU controlled ships of neutral, pirate, and rebel factions.  They can be randomly generate by mimicking a warp into the system and by having them there before you get there.  These ships can just be traveling to or from a planet, inbound to another, or getting ready to warp out.  They can also be attacking other ships, facilities etc.  You deal with them as you please. You may also run into the facilities of these various factions, discovering and scanning these facilities provides a small XP bonus.  In general you attack pirates and rebels.  Neutrals can be attacked, but it may be more beneficial to leave them in peace or helping them if under attack from rebels and pirates.  Neutrals will have distress signals receivable by all empires in the area.  Helping Neutrals, destroying rebels and pirates provides XP, but not much.  Attacking neutrals provides XP, also, but also tags you as a hostile for a while causing you to draw unwanted hostilities from them whenever in the vicinity of one.  This can make traveling through their areas troublesome.  You may not die from these attacks, but the XP cost for repairs may not be worth it.  
Now you don't have to select missions to receive XP, you receive XP for many things.  Mission completions just provide bonus XP.  These means one can fly around looking for fights and reaping the benefits of these encounters.  But there is an extrinsic benefit to providing ones services in the best interest of the empire and in empire controlled areas from the bonus in XP missions provide.
Character/Crew/Ship Development
There are several means of gathering XP.  These additional means are by research and exploration.  Finding and scanning new celestial bodies provides XP.  XP can be specific also.  Scientific XP(SXP) is received in addition to general XP when researching and exploring.   Finding nebulas may not provide a resource benefit, you wont know until you scan it, but continued scanning can on occasion uncover info not discovered with previous scans.  The usefulness of this info is purely scientific and provides an additional bonus in SXP.  You can sit there and continue to scan and you may come up with more info after many more scans.  Each subsequent discovery by you or anyone else within the empire provides only a fraction of the previous SXP pay out.  This simulates the difficulty in finding something new in well studied phenomenon. After a while the available SXP may be reset to allow for higher pay outs again.  Combat not only provides XP, but also Combat XP(CXP).  The amount is based on the vessel destroyed.  This CXP is used to improve the battle proficiency of the vessel.  Each increase in level requires more and more CXP to achieve, but provides only a fraction of benefit with respect to the previous level.  Meaning, the best will have an advantage, but at some point each increase becomes less influential.  This once again simulates the difficulty in learning some thing new within a well studied field.  The small increase wont necessarily provide you dominance over other ships, but may provide that additional buffer that keeps you shields up for the one more hit, or keeps your phaser banks from over-heating before the next shot.  It'll make a difference in the battle you get to limp home from.  
XP is like credit, a fusion of experience and cash.  XP is used for ship purchase, repair and upgrade.  SXP is for science station crew proficiency, CXP is for combat crew proficiency, including marines.  In order to use the various forms of XP you need to be docked at a Star Base.  A Star Base has heavy defenses, but can still be attacked...choose wisely.  Destruction of the Star Base has a wide damage area, being inside isn't a good idea.
Captains
In the beginning you get to pick or custom build a captain. The captain has strengths and weakness that affect overall ship attributes.  You have a budget when building your captain, so increases in one field means less for another.  Your captain can not be approved upon, or swapped out...its you.  As you improve in the game you are able to make up for some of the weakness by your own actions...in theory!
Senior Crewmen
Pick or custom build senior officers with XP.  They bring their strengths and weaknesses to their stations affecting the ships attributes in that particular field.
Ship
Pick a ship to command based on XP purchase price.  Each ship has a general default attribute, with minor fluctuations in certain areas(i.e. a little faster or slower, slightly stronger or weaker shields, etc.).  These fluctuations are further influenced by Captain and Senior crew attributes.  Upgrades  you can upgrade your ship with XP.  with various increases in stronger engines, weapons, shields, sensors, etc.  The upgrades aren't huge but may make a difference in life or death in a close fight.  A portion of XP for upgrades is transferable when trading up to a new ship.  Ships can be war ships research ships and if possible neutral ships and merchant ships of any empire or faction.  
Mission dynamics and XP
As said, Exploring is key.  Encountering, finding, fighting, aiding, patrolling, escorting and researching all are means of gaining XP.  Dying, repairs and purchases reduces XP.  Missions provide XP bonuses, multiple ships can take the same mission and receive the mission points.  In fact there can be a bonus multiplier for each ship who is participating or participated in the mission once completed.
Patrols Remaining in the patrol area(star system) for specified period of time awards XP.  Destroying a threat during the patrol provides the additional XP awarded for the kill.
Escorting  Remaining with a ship from launch/orbit to dock/orbit.  Destroying a threat provides additional XP.  Lose of the "package" can result in lose of XP, gaining a percentage of mission XP based on percentage of transit completed or no XP gain at all.
Research Provides XP for ship and SXP for science senior officer/station
Combat Provides XP for ship and CXP for combat senior officers/stations
Finding new civilizations Some uncharted planets will have various levels of intelligent life not yet known.  Scanning the planet provides this info.  XP is paid out and no other friendly ship can receive points for the discovery.  Attacking the planet, destroying the population and establishing facilities is possible.  Ramifications for killing them will vary based on imperial directives(next).
Breaking Imperial Directives  Some empires have certain rules.  Breaking these rules can have dire effects on XP.  For instance...attacking or killing non-hostiles. Showing signs of aggression in non-hostile territories(shields up, weapons powered up), not including unclaimed areas.   Attacking non-hostiles can also make you a fugitive of that faction in that area or if encountered outside the area for given amount of time, leaving you open for constant attack.  Klingons would possibly lose XP for initiating a fight, but leaving the area without destroying them.  Directives may affect the Federation more than others, but is part of the checks and balances that makes each empire unique(I have to think about other directives for the other empires).  Of course a planet attacked by the Klingons is open for attack by the Federation...I mean this war.
Logistic XP awarded by successfully loading, transporting and unloading material.  Merchant ships can carry more material so they receive more XP points per completion
Politics
Its pretty simple, hostiles are hostiles so deal with them accordingly. Neutrals are neutral, deal with accordingly.  Neutrals can become hostile, usually by your own doing, even defending a friendly from hostile neutrals he/she provoked.
The ability to captain neutral ships allows those who do not desire to participate as a major empire the option to fly within the unique confines of neutrality. This has its plus and minuses.  You can pilot star ships which are generally out-classed by their imperial counter parts in terms of weapons and shields.  You can patrol any neutral area as a Mercenary gaining XP(though reduced relative to imperial ships) doing missions.  Once again these missions are escorting, defending, logistics, etc.  Of course destroying an imperial ship provides significant XP points.  Transit into imperial territories is possible, but your status may be considered rebel, pirate or smuggler depending on the mission chosen(why else would you be performing a mission in there territory?).  Non-mission transit through imperial territory is ok, but may still result in attack...depends on how the player in the imperial star ship feels about you.   So knowing who owns what is a plus, Its a good idea to scan the area and identify who is there and who it belongs too.  Loading/unloading in imperial territory is only advised when on one is around.  If the research facility looks of Klingon design..be cautious before you complete the transaction.  Scans of your cargo hold may give you away also.  Investing in good counter measures will be a plus, but that may give you away too.  Benefits of neutral merchant shipping is good XP pay out, and the potential for surprisingly advance cargo ships later on(great for smuggling).  One can gather large amounts of XP which is transferable if one decides to join the ranks of an empire.  Of course in the process of cashing out your ship for XP only a fraction of that XP transfers over.  Another problem is that you may be limited to only transferring to the Federation.  You maybe able to switch back, but once again, only a fraction of XP transfers over, of course a larger portion transfers from Federation to Neutral.  Only XP(not SXP or CXP) and captains attributes transfers either way.
Invasion
One can enter an opposing/hostile territories, but expect a lot of attention.  Facilities will send out EWS warnings to friendlies drawing in hostiles.  Facilities will have defenses.  Some facilities have stronger defenses than others based on location, value, etc.  The deeper you go into the territory and the more valuable the area the harder it will be to affect enemy facilities, so bring friends. Deeper attacks will require coordinated efforts.  There is a limit to where you can go.  Certain star systems deep inside the territory will be consider core systems.  These layers of systems can only be entered under specific situations.  The empire is required to be weakened through lose of resource facilities or severely out-matched in numbers of resource facilities to justify a weak enough state to allow invasion.  As production levels decrease, thresholds trigger their corresponding  layers of star systems to open up for invasion.  Once production levels drop enough the home system is open for attack.  Despite low production levels, the Home system will still have significant defenses once again requiring coordinate action.  Low production levels also affect life in the outer territories.  As production drops, resources are naturally trickled toward the core systems.  Star Bases in the exterior will have fewer available resources, repairs will become increasingly incomplete.  In order to get the best or even the necessities, one would find himself needing to go to the interior territories.  Here lies the problem in losing production facilities.  In order to gain new production facilities you have to be conquering on the fringes of the territory, this provides better available equipment, faster and more complete repairs, etc, but necessity draws you toward the core systems.    The destruction of the empire begins to spiral out of control as resources are lost, star ship presence is need at the fringes , but best resources are near the interior where a new threat of invasion may begin.  Resources and ships begin to be stretched too thin.  Losing your ship and respawning now means your shields aren't able to reach 100%, phasers take longer to recharge, failures are more common, etc.  Meanwhile the enemy gains proficiency and more of your resource facilities.  Once production losses drop below certain levels and/or the home world takes certain amount of damage, the empire is considered destroyed.  Once one empire is left or controls a certain amount of territory, the war ends.  The universe is reset, celestial bodies and/or their attributes are randomly shuffled(so its never the same game twice)and the war begins again.
Entering the Game World  
First time in game you chose your start point, a number of  Star Bases in the core systems.  Star Bases are where game progress is saved and where you enter the game whenever you re-enter the universe to play.  Repairs and purchases, crew selection etc, happen here.  This where you have an opportunity to scroll through area and territory wide generated missions.  At the same time there is a post board where individual players put up coordinated actions(i.e. massing up at Oostal-3 for a mass attack on Rega-Alpha, launch time 21:00).  A map of the quadrant with known territories marked would display hot points and EWS icons.  The map will also provide known information on the star system being queried.  Chat windows would allow for coordination and communication.  This allows for ease in coordinating  attacks since sustained bombardments will be required to eliminate valuable facilities and to defend the attack from hostiles.

New additions:
* You can only save at friendly or Neutral Star Bases
* Imperial repairs at neutral star bases are more expensive and never at 100%(difficulty in having and high black market cost for imperial parts, lack of sufficent miscellaneous parts to install at peak proficency)
* Crippled ships unable to transit to nearest star base due to warp or impulse failures must request a tow to the nearest freindly or neutral star base(star base will not be in every system), at a high XP price.
* No XP, or not enough XP for repairs, etc? Then you have to do what you can with what you have(hopefully you can atleast get to a peaceful area where you can XP without getting attacked).  If crippled you can get a new ship, but of a lesser class, all XP is liquidated, upgrades are lost(upgrade XP value can be cashed in if at a star base) and possibly even your crew(thus liquidating any SXP and CXP values also).  This equates to a demotion and loss of skilled crew...you start fresh, but atleast you not neccessarly forced to captain a low-end frieghter or small war ship(unless you havent advanced very far).

These ideas are to help deter reckless command, to deter the willingness to die pointlessly, to encourage preservationof life, but simultaneously allowing the death penalty to not mean you cant play(even for really bad capatains).
Proficeny bonus are designed to those with head starts in game play, from gaining such an advantage(outside to access to more powerful ships) that newbies cant have a chance to compete.  The goal is to for example a starting value of 100 for profiency with each increase being harder to achieve but providing less of an advantage.  So level 0 amy equal 100, level 1 may equal 110, but level 3 would only be 115, etc.  until you hit a hard ceiling of maybe 120.  Each subsequent level  may require twice or up to 10 times more XP to achieve the next.  There maybe a streak bonus that would be applied on top of this depending on how much XP is gained without dying(for CXP only) that goes away once you die.  This streak bonus may be as high as 5 or so(2 would probably be better for balance)...pretty significant regardless of what part of the profiency spectrum you reside.   The hope is that experience and a little luck determines better captains, not artifical game induced advantages, but has everyone gain experience(learnig all there is to learn) a little induced advantage adds spice to engagements that may become routine.
Thats all for now.  One thing I do ask, is that people try and break this basic foundation on paper.  Meaning, run scenerios in your head and come back with any problems or questions.  Example:  I found a planet in an unclaimed territory.  It has sufficent resoures, what happens next?  I'd come back and answer:  You wait, within a few minutes a freighter warps into the system(it doesnt really come from anywhere really, its just spawned in out of nowhere under the disguise of warp), enters orbit and a resource facility begins to be constructed.  A area defense mission auto generates that you can take to defend the construction or you can leave.  The planet appears on the imperial map board for all in the empire to see and retrieve info on, to visit if the please and defend(I think it would be cool for there to be a means of identifing who actually discovered it).  
 

nattydread

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Re: I love the series, but something is still miss
« Reply #18 on: January 26, 2003, 04:46:36 am »
Ha, i went through th eprocess of getting the whole idea posted and everyone lost interest  

Blitzkrieg

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Re: I love the series, but something is still miss
« Reply #19 on: January 26, 2003, 09:53:55 am »
Man thats long lol... have you ever played any of the Elite serious by the way?

Jackal99

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Re: I love the series, but something is still miss
« Reply #20 on: January 26, 2003, 11:04:45 am »
@nattydread

that would be the PERFECT ST-game, great idea of yours and a great post as well  .

well done
 

Raptor013

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Re: I love the series, but something is still miss
« Reply #21 on: January 26, 2003, 09:04:11 pm »
I assure you I have not lost interest.  I read your post and I think your ideas are great.  It would be nice to see them implemented in the game.  

nattydread

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Re: I love the series, but something is still miss
« Reply #22 on: January 26, 2003, 10:01:51 pm »
Glad you all like.  The hope is that Taldren will be interested in it and take it.  I'll give it to them if they'll run with it!  My only goal is to see it realized so I can play it.  


As mentioned(in case you missed it), if yu have time and dont mind, polease try and break the model by thinking of scenerios and situtations that may cause kinks and post them here.  Also if you have any questions or not sure how something would play out, please post them here.  I want to amke sure the game model is solid.
Thanks!
« Last Edit: January 26, 2003, 11:31:09 pm by nattydread »

Son of Technobabble

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Re: I love the series, but something is still miss
« Reply #23 on: January 27, 2003, 06:42:27 am »
I'd definitely buy that

kitten

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Re: I love the series, but something is still miss
« Reply #24 on: January 27, 2003, 08:32:39 am »
wonderful ideas, but i fear that you are asking for too much.

maybe something simpler, like a 'battlefield 1942' set in a sci-fi universe?

don't get me wrong, i love your ideas, but i'm afraid of making the game that tries to be everything, and ends up not being made at all, or poorly (BC3K).
   

nattydread

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Re: I love the series, but something is still miss
« Reply #25 on: January 27, 2003, 06:52:46 pm »
Kitten:
Understood Kitten but if it was like BF1942, it would be just like every other multiplayer game.  A simple shoot out at the OK Corral(sp?) .  I also feel its do-able and it would be too much for those unwilling to make the effort.  The resulting revolution in genre I think is worth it all.  Not too mention this next-step in multilayer gaming is being done already in Dungeons & Dragons type RPGs and a WWII simulator right now.  You see to me,  simple small scale battles with repeated spawns(without consequence), limited space and single-minded intentions are nothing more than a simplistic, tactically and strategically insulting, perversion of combat and war.  Its just a prolonged skirmish in a bottle!  Now that isnt an insult to the folks who makes this game, its just the nature of teh genre.  One that I accepted for so long until I saw and realized that there is something more that is missing.  I've done the mulitpayer battle thing since Rainbow 6 when it was the pinnicale of this revolutionary genre...but its getting old.  
I begin to realize that there is more to war, combat, etc than just the fight.  The fight is the final piece in a tapestry thats been building up to the engagement.  Ideally, those things done before the engagment have almost or more to do with the outcome then the men and machines themselves.  These are some of things that are missing and need inclusion in order to have a more comprehensive and satisfying battle.  
First thing, war isnt fighting 100% of the time.   In current games everybody is in combat mode 100%, there are no lulls, no opportunity to drop one's guard.  That makes real surprise attacks, ambushes, etc impossible.  My idea creates situtations that draws one attention from combat.  Yes, the threat of hostilities does exhist in the back of your head, but there is a differnece between having your gun holstered knowing there is a threat, compared to walking around with your rifle shouldered 100% of the time looking for your next target.  In fact Ive been thinking about the shields.  Im thinking within my game idea there has to be a reason to keep people from having their shield up all time(besides it being an act of hostilty), shields are never up 100% of the time in Star Trek episodes unless under threat.  
Second, Id like damage to and destroyed vesels to matter.  Even if people can repeatly spawn new ones(with consequnces), the idea that I can affect the players I encounter to the point where they fear the consequences of their own losses means:
* players will think twice about wasting ones ships irresponsibly
* the intrinsic desire to live basically becomes attrition of units as players conceed to stronger and more coordinated forces, thus going to other areas or coordinating a suitable counter-attack
* for the first time you'll see real tactical retreats, value of the area/situtation, etc and liklihood of losses will determine the neccessity to stay and fight.  Sometimes its better to retreat, repair and re-group in order to live another day so that one can take back what was lost and/or crush those who had the upper-hand on you.
* one's desire for survival will generate more team oriented and coordinated operations
* Finally the elimination of the "bloodlust" type gameplay we've been cursed with!  War is not about killing, war is about attaining goals...it just so happens killing is often required.  One who stands over the fallen to insure his death is ignoring his reason for being there anyway, it also opens you up for attack by his commrade.  Instead, elimnate your foe as a threat and continue with the mission at hand.  
 
Now I do realize my idea is complex and it does require a lot.  Because of this Ive come accept that some stuff may have to be left out, but the concept of a large inter-linked network of systems, resource allocation, XP accumilation and research/exploration must stay.  These are the basis of the experience with neutral parties, merchant and frieghter vessels being expendable.

 

   

Raptor013

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Re: I love the series, but something is still miss
« Reply #26 on: January 27, 2003, 08:49:44 pm »
I agree with you completely.  I like the SFC games, but, the gameplay seems almost mindless.  I mean no disrespect to anyone or the game, itself.  The game is quite enjoyable.  I'm just saying that I'd like something fresher.  Something that the players can actually make a difference in and have everyone else in the game feel the impact of each player's actions.  

kitten

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Re: I love the series, but something is still miss
« Reply #27 on: January 27, 2003, 09:19:35 pm »
i have to wonder how many people would enjoy logging in to play for a few hours, and spend that time on patrol, with no enemy encounter?

the game has to be fun, too.

 

kitten

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Re: I love the series, but something is still miss
« Reply #28 on: January 27, 2003, 09:22:39 pm »
instead of auto-respawning, what if you had to pay for each character on the server? oooh, that would be evil.

 

Aliasalpha

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Re: I love the series, but something is still miss
« Reply #29 on: January 27, 2003, 10:41:32 pm »
It'd sure as hell stop ME from playing...  

nattydread

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Re: I love the series, but something is still miss
« Reply #30 on: January 28, 2003, 01:29:09 am »
Trust me, i dont think you'd have a problem finding a fight.  First, missions aret required, they just provide bonuses.  The idea of the game is that it gives you flexibilty in game play.  EWS  and distress calls alone will bring plenty of attention to you if you decide to wreck havoc!!  EWS and distress calls will also tell you where to find action(warping makes engagments almost immediate).  Certain areas will likly draw a lot of action, people who want to fight will know where to go.  Those who want to figt will nothave a problem finding a fight.  The reason is because most people, all people at one time or another, will be looking to pick a fight...trust me!!  Even the most researchor neutral oriented person is going to go looking for a little phaser luvin' at time or another.  
Patrols will be for those behind the scene type people, those who recognize the value of a target and realize that like minded people will eventually come for it.  Its a great way to gain XP without needing to fight or when things are slow.  Patrols are no more than what you'd be doing in a star system anyway.  But like I said, if you wanna fight, just warp into an oppossing empires territory, find a star system with a resource facility and bombard it, the EWS will alert everyone in the oppossing empire, the distress call from the attack will let em know you mean business...this will bring more than enough people to fight(so bring a friend!!)
Push goes to shove they can create a few centralized contested star systems, it would be an area located near all the imperial territories(like the center hub on a nuclear symbol).  This area would be a free-fire area with no missions, go in and shoot willy-nilly until your heart's content.  
Also, a patrol mission wouldnt be for an hour, it would be like 20-30 mins.
« Last Edit: January 31, 2003, 07:41:30 pm by nattydread »

Blitzkrieg

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Re: I love the series, but something is still miss
« Reply #31 on: January 28, 2003, 04:14:26 am »
Sure there are problems with this but after all its somthing far greater and more grand a gesture than what is being put forward today. As I said before, have you played Elite? Seriously go download Elite 2 or 3, 1 if you really want to know what it was all about.

Elite online but with more of team approach and Star Trek feel, surely this is gota be the apple in some developers eye?

****Edit****

Doh I just did that and forgot, it only runs in pure Dos mode. You will just have to take my word for it lol.
« Last Edit: January 28, 2003, 04:29:54 am by Blitzkrieg »

nattydread

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Re: I love the series, but something is still miss
« Reply #32 on: January 28, 2003, 05:18:38 am »
Naw, never played Elite.   I really hope someome picks this up.  Im starting see myself become more and more dissatified with games out right now.  Developing this in my head as sort of brought to light all thats missing 99% of the multiplayer games currently out there.   I need something to keep me interested, to fulfill those gaming needs Ive developed.  I play one game that is doing it(differnet game setting),  but they are taking so much time to get it together that its driving me crazy.   They are creating the complete game, thats why I know it can be done with Star Trek.  Either one would be good, having both would mean i wouldnt see the sun for weeks.

nattydread

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Re: I love the series, but something is still miss
« Reply #33 on: January 28, 2003, 08:02:35 pm »
I was thinking about the whole shields and weapons powered up 100% of the time issue(if you see it as an issue).   I figure let shields and weapons slowly, very slowly, drain XP until an enemy or neutral vessel is targeted.  Once targeted the XP drain is stopped, 5 mins after the last lock the timer starts again if shields and weapons remained powered up.

I have also been thinking about a longe range strike weapon.  Im sure this has been discused before, it obvious Star Trek vessels are based on mid-century naval warships.  The basics being in vessel class and basic weapons: i.e. phasers are main guns, torpedos are torpedos, I assume cloaked vessels are the equivilant of a submarine, shuttles have been experimented as carrier fighters, etc.  The thing is should we stay with the basic post WWII parallels or attempt parallel modern developments in naval warfare.   Ill discuss this later, back to strike weapons.  What happened to the equivilent of the Harpoon anti-ship missle? Basically a long range strike weapon that is a projectile in limited numbers(3-5), limited power(no more or even less than a torpedo), single shot, with tracking capabilities, but limited manuverabilty.  Its basically a first-strike stand-off weapons that can be locked on and destroyed by a single phaser/disruptor shot.  Its basically a destroyer and crusier type weapon that is useless against crusier class and smaller type vessels( unless slow and unaware). Its main goal is to provide a pre-emptive strike against large capital ships with strong shields and armor but low manuverabilty(of course the sheer amount of guns may still make them pointless except under the right conditions...a little luck helps too).  I figured every race would have a sligtly different kind.  Klingons would have high damage rating, but the excess weight and sub-standard sensors makes it less accurate.  Romulans would have a cloaking version with a significantly lower damage rating( because the cloaking device takes up space)  The missile could possibly de-cloak in the target vicinity for various reasons: To gain a proper fix on its target, maybe the missle cant track well while cloaked, to route power for final manuvering, weapon charge up, etc.  Feds would have a modrate damage rating with good tracking.  All would have a secondary "area burst" if the target is missed, but still within range...it will nothave th eabilty to come-back around for a second pass.
I also thought about:  What happened to the ASW helos/planes(sub hunters) or AWAC veseels(they'd occupy similar roles in this game.  AWACs would basically be a small vessel with one hell of a sensor array to help detect cloaked vessels, but minimal defensive weapons, their prescence could provide a small increase in detecing cloaked vessels for all in the area of teh same empire.  Speed and manuverabilty would be its saving grace.  The ASW would be similar but it would have limited torpedos available and small phaser compliment.  It would be slower than the AWAC and more power-limited because of its weapons.  Power-management would be key, avoiding enemy fire is essential.  These vessels are mainly of use only against cloaked vessels...and cloaked anti-ship missle too.  They are more equivilent to the ship launched helios and very vulnerable.  
I thought about fighters, but honestly fighters are only threats to other fighters or light torpedo or bombers planes.  Plus fighters, torpedo planes and bombers are usually carrier or land based. Fighters are mainly pointless against a ships and torpedo/bombers are mainly single use...once again pointless unless AI controlled.  They would be good for star base defense though.  I personally dont see how a carrier could hold its own with dedicated escort and defense by capital ships.  Basically the Star Base is the closest thing to a carrier, slow, large but its well defended and another good platform for use of an anti-ship missle...for or against!!  
« Last Edit: January 29, 2003, 01:17:14 am by nattydread »

Raptor013

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Re: I love the series, but something is still miss
« Reply #34 on: January 28, 2003, 09:10:00 pm »
No one game is going to please everyone.  If they don't want to play it, they don't have to.  The point is, there will be people who will truly enjoy that type of game.  As nattydread said, it wouldn't take hours to find a fight.  I, for one, just want a fresh gaming experience.  I just want a more colorful gaming experience in the Star Trek universe.  These are some good ideas.  I believe this type of game would have far more replay value.  It would, definitely, keep me coming back for more.  

nattydread

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Re: I love the series, but something is still miss
« Reply #35 on: January 31, 2003, 02:16:24 am »
No new ideas, thoughts, etc?  I see a lot of reads, but not many comments.  I was hoping for more feed-back to insure this was a viable idea for which I thought any Trekkie would appreciate and push to implemented.   For those reading this, but didnt comment, what are your opinions, desires, etc?  This isnt so much for me, but for all of us.  Its for the Star Trek genre to insure its progress and isnt limited to its current form.  If you think the idea is worthwhile, or not, please chime in.

Atrahasis

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Re: I love the series, but something is still miss
« Reply #36 on: January 31, 2003, 03:37:14 am »
You know what? A game like that will be made some day.  

nattydread

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Re: I love the series, but something is still miss
« Reply #37 on: January 31, 2003, 07:01:22 am »
yeah, I figured that, but why eventually...why not now?  It can be done, it doesnt require any new technology, it can use current graphics so it shouldnt require any more of a system than current games.  Its so do-able, why wait?

Raptor013

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Re: I love the series, but something is still miss
« Reply #38 on: January 31, 2003, 01:23:50 pm »
I agree that the ability to create such a game does exist.  It may be a few years before we see the game you speak of.  I'm no programmer, so I have no idea how long it would take.  I just know it would take a long time.  My mind has been a bit slow lately, but, if a good idea pops in my head, I'll post it.  

SghnDubh

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Re: I love the series, but something is still miss
« Reply #39 on: January 31, 2003, 02:12:51 pm »

So, in a nutshell,

EverQuest meets Star Trek.

Is that the take on this idea?

Blitzkrieg

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Re: I love the series, but something is still miss
« Reply #40 on: January 31, 2003, 05:46:54 pm »
Just use a basic principle of

does a Solar system go here yes/no
how many planets/what type etc
what goes there, yardy yarda

Use the Elite (yes I will keep mentioning it) basis for moving from one place to another with a few Star Trek tweaks, consider then the payability (ship to ship) far more and build some AI and an economy plus political system. Ok not too much to do so far, erm I cant see any problems.

WAIT....The only problems I can see is getting it online, the sort of system required to manage such a Universe would be all but impossible considering todays servers and networks. If you think that this is possible, then be ready to pay large sums of money on a monthly basis for somthing that would be literaly out of this world and beyond anything ever attempted before.

Ok - time out Blitz  

 

nattydread

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Re: I love the series, but something is still miss
« Reply #41 on: January 31, 2003, 07:55:49 pm »
So how much would you be willing to pay for this game, how much do you think it will cost.   I currently pay $13 a month for one game I have.  I'd pay that for this game.

Yes the game does have a RPG aspect to it, that the goal.  I assum Asheron's Call woul dhave to track similar, maybe more, info then this game would. Granted its a Microsoft game  so the resources are there, but I wager that the info required to be saved wouldnt be much for each player.  The server wouldnt need to handle everything, much of the wrok would be client side, the server just needs to relay most  info to players in the same system, only a small bit would be required to relay universe/quadrant wide(star system specs).  This would be even smaller bits of info for text and icons for maps and missions.  The thing is, each players sphere of awareness for other players(likly the bulk of info transmitted and recieved by teh server) would be limited to the star system they are in.  A small seperate map and chat server would handle most universe/quadrant wide info.
The good thing about the idea is that its expandable.  The universe doesnt have to supper big in the beginning.  They can increase it as it becomes neccessary.

nattydread

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Re: I love the series, but something is still miss
« Reply #42 on: February 04, 2003, 02:18:53 am »
shameless attempt to keep th epost from dying.  Hopefully it'll be seen by someone in Taldren who can make use of it.  Gee whiz, im just giving it away!

Raptor013

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Re: I love the series, but something is still miss
« Reply #43 on: February 04, 2003, 03:29:53 pm »
I'd pay that much to play it.  

nattydread

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Re: I love the series, but something is still miss
« Reply #44 on: August 12, 2003, 01:06:12 am »
one last shameless bump.  its been awhile.

nx_adam_1701

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Re: I love the series, but something is still miss
« Reply #45 on: August 12, 2003, 11:04:41 pm »
I love the ideas, Nattydread, wonderful game indeed, Id even pay $20 a month, we pay much more on crap, atleast this money goes to entertainment that we all want, about the warp, I could see where thats a problem but I think a scale should be done, I mean if your warping from one solar system to an adjacent solar system it should only be maybe like half a minute or so..., eervyy additional one should be 30 seconds, so if you want to travel 5 , itll take 2 minutes and a half, i mean you want something realistic right  lol lol its hard to figure out, get a soda or beer past the time lol, but serious, now warp should be standard for science missions, maximum should be used for emergencies, now my idea for traveling far is make several worm holes, i mean we have some stable ones in Star Trek, so we cheat, find new ones, ok  i mean OMG theres a distress call from a federation ship in sector yadada ok itll take me 2 minutes to reach the nearest wormhole from there I will get closer i mean everyone wants to eat there cake and eat it too, its difficult the warp thing because if we do like BC itll be unrealistic, ok a war breaks out, everybody and their mother will get to the cordinates in seconds, thats not fair to the attackers, it has to be realistic not everyone get there instantly, the wormholes are a good idea to speed things up. Now about the huge amount of space and boring missions, i mean there should be some patches continuously to make sure that new things are in place, like a deadly virus, or a star explosion, pirates, new species discovered, we all enjoy watching star trek, i love it thats for sure, but there are alot of episodes that had no fighting envolved, alot of science and exploration DS9 was about the only one that had fights atleast every other episode lol lol, the patches can make new things every now and then, maybe a species just learned about warp drive, and now theyre entering space, good science missions where we could be surprised, plus aint wont be that boring with tons of people invovled, i mean everybody isnt going to be part of the same race everyone will be unique, if a ferengi vessel stole cargo from a federation ship which happens often lol, then someone will investigate, i dont know, im just throwing stuff out there, the borg have transwarp gates, i see that they wont have a problem getting anywhere lol, last but not least, the wormholes can solve alot, and the continuous patches everynow and then can solve the boringness of the exploration, i mean if people constantly make mods for these games, a program should be made for some people to make new bases, species, missions etc...

adam out
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 06:00:00 pm by nx_adam_1701 »

nattydread

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I love the series, but something is still missing.
« Reply #46 on: January 23, 2003, 05:37:44 pm »
Isnt it time to take Star Trek to the next level of multiplayer experience?  This is in no offense to the designers...really, but for me Star Trek is an organism that lives and evolves.  Actions in one place affect things in another.  I cant help but feel that single isolated conflicts get tiring very soon.  Excuse me if this has been mentioned or discussed before.  
There is nothing more rewarding than playing with a purpose, a purpose that extends farther than the end of the present battle.  I mean a purpose where youplay, go to sleep and wake up, get back on the game and see the ripples your drop in the pond created.  Granted they wont be the same, but they wouldnt be exactly what they are if you hadnt added you rpart.  The big question, when will all that has been developed to make these Star Trek games great, go into creating a Persistent Universe?  One where the RPG, action, mulitplayer, campaign and politics of Star Trek come together.  A place where the dynamics of gameplay not only allows for war ships(which we all love) but also for research vessels and  merchant ships to be  embraced.  Where you can be part of a major empire or be a neutral merchant or even a mercenary.  Where a nebula may be a great hiding place for a stricken war ship during combat, or a research bonanza for a research ship in a quiet and peaceful star system(for the time being!).  Where planets houses an empires mining facilty( or orbital station, production plant, etc),  who's value requires defense and protection  by the owning empire, but a target of attack for opposing empires and a hub for the owning  empire's merchant frieghters(maybe neutral freighters too).  A universe where fighting benefits you(if you win) and exploring benefits the empire.  Every interaction(fighting, exploring, researching, discovering) provides credit toward improvement.  A universe where all star systems are charted, but not all info is present.  A game where entering and the scanning a star system gives you the opportunity to discover  planets, nebulas, astroid belts, etc, and to determine if they have suitable resources which are relevant for imperial expansion, strengthen the empire(finding suitable levels of resource causes a CPU controlled freighter to warp in and begin construction, defend it and the construction).  Where  gaining perstige is also  through exploration and not just combat.  A universe where your empire doesnt gain knowledge on an unclaimed star system unless someone from that empire goes out and explores it.  A Universe where  enough losses in resource facilities for an empire affects how well a  Star Base  makes repairs on your ship, if the next ship you spawn is at 100%, the caliber of selectable officers, etc.  Lack of empire wide resources will create shortages in teh outter reaches of teh empire, forcing you to travel to your empire's core systems just to get a complete repair, or  better upgrades.   Weak empires are of course open for conquering!
A universe where you can go in peace or live by the sword. A universe where you can go out on your own and be solitary, or work as a team.  Where you can do for self or do for the empire through selectable missions(of course there are benefits to doing for the empire, you get mission bonuses).
This to me is the future of Star Trek and Star Trek deserves nothing less. When this day comes Star Trek will leave the realm of game and become teh Star Trek experience, the Star Trek exhistence.
Like I said I apologize if this or something similar has been discussed before, but its just where my heart is at right now, and felt the need to vent.  

Son of Technobabble

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Re: I love the series, but something is still missing.
« Reply #47 on: January 23, 2003, 06:35:25 pm »
Beautiful dream...
Add Continuous space and you get the game

nattydread

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Re: I love the series, but something is still missing.
« Reply #48 on: January 23, 2003, 07:22:10 pm »
Thanks for the reply.  Its nice to know my dream is deemed worthwhile!  Its theraputic!

Raptor013

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Re: I love the series, but something is still missing.
« Reply #49 on: January 23, 2003, 09:30:08 pm »
That is exactly what I would love to see.  The game would be totally different every time you play.  With continuous space, you could sneak, or try, at least, to sneak a small armada of ships into enemy territory for a surgical strike, or organize a massive assault on enemy borders.  Aside from war, the exploration would appeal to me quite a bit.  I'm the type of person who likes to be able to relax every now and then and see the sights.  Constant fighting can get old.  What has been described above in this post is what I'd consider THE perfect game.  I've been following the develpment of a game called Freelancer.  The universe is a persistent one where your actions have consequences.  I would definitely love to see this in SFC.  

nattydread

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Re: I love the series, but something is still missing.
« Reply #50 on: January 23, 2003, 09:52:15 pm »
Of course the concept of continuous space is required.  The cool thing is thi scan all be on one big server, or broken up amoungst several servers.  Each star system would compose plenty of dead space outside of it, but warping to and from star systems would be the same weither the universe  was composed of one or several servers.  You couldnt travel between systems without warp anyway.  This may mean you are always limited to being in a star system when not in warp.  But if star systems  are created  big enough who would care(I hope I didnt just lose most of ya'll support).  If people insist on being able to travel in between systems at sub-warp, Im sure it can be figured out.  I guess techinically all worlds will be linked like a web, and if each intersection of the web(star systems) can be modeled, maybe each thread linking them can be of modeled dead space, inter-space. Each will have to be limited in size though Im sure.  God, that would be difficult to model and track without the navigation code having a 3D model of the modeled universe to properly place you if  decide to drop out of warp all of a sudden.  Or, they could have to be coded as destinations that once you engage, you cant stop(unlike intra-system warp, which could be done in modeled inter-space.
 

nattydread

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Re: I love the series, but something is still missing.
« Reply #51 on: January 23, 2003, 10:08:14 pm »
I cant remember if i added this, Im too lazy to go back and check...plus Im supposed to be studying for my Insurance exam(my wife is going to kill me!)
Players should also be able to play as neutral parties. These ships wont be as good as the Imperial ships, but it adds a whole new aspect to the game.  As a neutral ship your survival when encountered by an imperial ship is always in question.  You should be safe in neutral and un-claimed areas, but thats not promised.  Neutral war-ships would be inferior to their imperial counter-parts(good merceranry ships), but the merchant/cargo ships/freighters would have the potential to gain other advantages, like:  Greater ECM(for smuggling) , higher speeds. Draw backs may be less manuverabilty, weaker weapons(good rear firing weapons because you will be running from war ships if caught).  I figure, there will be missions for neutral ships in neutral  and unclaimed areas, but on occassion you may get a high paying mission in imperial territories.  You may not be told in teh mission that its in imperial territory, so its always a good idea to scan the star system when you get there, and scan & identify the owner of your pick/drop off point.  Making a delivery at a Klingon colony may be construde as smuggling.  ECM may help hide your cargo from imperial sensors(a load of weapon grade material to, or a load of cloaking devices on a neutral ship from a klingon colony looks bad to the captain of the Klingon ship), but it may also give you away.  too much ECM looks like you are hiding something...not too mention, why are you there anyway?  So knowledge is power, scanning and picking up a klingon war-ship may mean leaving and coming back later, or dipping behind a moon, or hiding in a nebula until the coast is clear.

Raptor013

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Re: I love the series, but something is still missing.
« Reply #52 on: January 23, 2003, 11:50:30 pm »
You have some very good ideas.  Whereas I think it would be better to be able to drop out of warp in deep space, that may not be able to be done on such a large scale.  In that case, your previous idea would be a good way to work around that.  Your idea for neutral ships, actually, I was thinking about since my previous post.  I think it would add more flavor to the game.  I would love SFC to reside in a persistent universe.  The universe would constantly change.  It wouldn't just be the same old thing over and over again.  

nattydread

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Re: I love the series, but something is still missing.
« Reply #53 on: January 24, 2003, 12:22:52 am »
Actually thought th eidea up and wrot eit out this week.  If more are interseted and deem worth while, i just might post it here.  Its prety long though and would be composed mostly of what I posted before.  I think it draws the idea together a little better.

Raptor013

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Re: I love the series, but something is still missing.
« Reply #54 on: January 24, 2003, 12:44:28 am »
I, for one, would be glad to read more of your ideas.  We seem to have many of the same wishes for the game.  

Whiplash

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Re: I love the series, but something is still miss
« Reply #55 on: January 24, 2003, 06:49:06 am »
This continuous space would need to be very large to have the sort of feel most of us are talking about. It would have to be some considerable effort to sneak an armada deep into enemy territory. Move the fleet to a critical location, through several star systems where you could be detected. Meet up with a supply convoy you also had to sneak into the area. Convoy hides and waits for your return as you fly another dozen systems deep into enemy territory.

I don't think continuous space needs to be actually continuous. Only the areas around stars are of interest 99% of the time.

W.
 

Raptor013

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Re: I love the series, but something is still miss
« Reply #56 on: January 24, 2003, 02:00:57 pm »
That's true.  It would get boring to some to have to travel through deep space for some time.  Still, I wouldn't mind it.  

Whiplash

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Re: I love the series, but something is still miss
« Reply #57 on: January 24, 2003, 02:59:53 pm »
How long should it take a player to get from one star system to another? I'm thinking 1-2 minutes at warp.

It'd be cool to have multiple warp speeds (1-9) with say 5-6 being average, and a penalty or game disincentive for going faster. An extra fuel cost and maintenance cost to the engines, taking away some of those hard-earned prestige, for example. Then you'd be warp-9-ing only under dire circumstances, when you need to get there fast.

W.
 

Son of Technobabble

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Re: I love the series, but something is still miss
« Reply #58 on: January 24, 2003, 04:20:43 pm »
Quote:

How long should it take a player to get from one star system to another? I'm thinking 1-2 minutes at warp.





Well some people are already complaining about the 45 sec wait time of the Dyna3. I know it isn't the same but it could get really boring to spend most of your time just watching the stars pass; it could take you a lot of time to actually find something to do.

I think that the true problem about continuous space is in fact where would you be between two star systems, or nebulas or whichever other important places. The question is how to manage all that empty space where nothing really important ever happens. That would be some "continuous" space indeed, but I am unsure of how playable and fun it would be. I think that warp between sectors should be handled more like in BC (ie instant warp) but for as long as you don't warp, you can drift in space all you want. That would limit "freedom" but would be necessary IMO to allow the game to go on. There could be nevertheless empty space sectors in strategical places to be used as ambush points, fleet gathering locations and such. After all, being an explorer must be a boring life in about a 90%, and who would buy a game that is boring in a 90%?

My two cents.  
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 06:00:00 pm by Son of Technobabble »

32nd Halcyon

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Re: I love the series, but something is still miss
« Reply #59 on: January 24, 2003, 05:09:26 pm »
This sounds cool. I'm all for that. Has anyone heard about star wars galaxies? this is generally the same thing. Warping like in BC would answer the issue of spending hours in the dead of space. how ever this raises a question that should be dealt with. the question of time and how do you measure it with rehards to the rest of the server and they're other players. Normally warping would take a serious amount of time. Time that others could be engaged in prestige gaining missions.
how could that be remedied?

The whole idea is grand. I wish it could be a reality. Much like Everquest for the Trek genre. Imagine an armada of ships going through the wormhole to take on the Dominion! That would rock. I suppose Federation research could look at creating "Transwarp Conduits" this would allow for fast movement and nearly seemless game play between servers.

nattydread

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Re: I love the series, but something is still miss
« Reply #60 on: January 24, 2003, 06:43:15 pm »
Im unfamiliar with the term warp BC. I personally dont have a problem with 1-2 min warp times based on warp speed an distance.  Anything more woul dbe problematic Id think for the casual player.  The other concern would be if the universe was based on several linked servers.  Part of the warp time would occupied with loading into the next server and loading the area objects.  These times will vary based on connection speed, connection interruptions, and computer system.  I guess any anomalies this may cause can always be attributed to in-warp difficulties, delays, detours, etc.  This does mean leaving a system before or at a higher warp speed than another, doesnt gaurantee you will arrive first.  
In terms of sneaking armadas in, I shoul dlet it be known that I invisioned a Early Warning System(EWS) that would send up alerts whenever enemy ship entered an occupied system(it might alert for neutrals also)  Yes you could sneak around in neutral and unclaimed areas(imperial ships would send EWS alerts to neutral ships in neutral areas possibly) but the element of surprise leaves once you enter hostile space.  Supply convoys werent invisioned to aid aramadas in attacks, but if its possible and desired, Im sure it could be worked out.  I understand the idea to be complex already, there is some attempt to keep it it somewhat simplified.   The Idea of sneaking armadas in for attack was a desired option and part of teh vision.
I'll be posting the full write out later today.  I have teh idea basically complete, with additional small tweaks evolving daily.  

p.s I do believe there should be some cost "penalty" for high warp speeds.  Im not sure if its applicable, but perhaps the lithium crystals are expendable and higher warp speeds would expend them faster, requiring the purchase of a new one.  Its rate of exhaustion needs to be finely balanced to deter excessive high warp uses, but not so much that people will be scared to use high warp when they need to.
In fact the hardest part of the game will likly be tryingto find teh priper balance in credits recieved for everything compared to cost in order to deter somethings and encourge others.  
« Last Edit: January 24, 2003, 06:50:25 pm by nattydread »

MrCue

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Re: I love the series, but something is still miss
« Reply #61 on: January 24, 2003, 08:00:19 pm »
Simple, Just give Bigger Warp cores Higer Warp Factors and longer Duration at High warp.

Job done.

Son of Technobabble

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Re: I love the series, but something is still miss
« Reply #62 on: January 24, 2003, 08:45:19 pm »
Quote:

Im unfamiliar with the term warp BC.




This is referred to the warp system used in Bridge Commander. In this system there is no "actual" space between two star systems. You warp out, and instantly you arrive to your destination.

Having it in another way would mean an infinite amount of empty space, provided you could not travel between star systems without warping (this seems logical). Considering it that way, you wouldn't be able to come out of warp between systems, since that would also require an infinite amount of space. Therefore I can't see the need for a interstellar space in which all you can do is watch the stars pass slower or faster depending on your warp factor.  

nattydread

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Re: I love the series, but something is still miss
« Reply #63 on: January 24, 2003, 10:52:41 pm »
Here is the gane idea as written yesterday, ill add any additional ideas at the end.  Warning, it is long!!

The spin I'm proposing for Star Trek is based on this persistent world concept, but coined as a persistent universe.  
The idea is to have several factions interact throughout this universe under defined political relations, but with individual choice of interaction.  The flexibility this game provides runs the full gambit of Star Trek reality.  A player can choose at anytime to play the full spectrum of roles ranging from research to military to neutral  vessels.  The choice to interact peacefully or aggressively and there will be benefits of both,  and all are likely to do both at one time or another.  Some will benefit more from one or the other because it is their role in game or because its an intrinsic desire for themselves.    
The Universe
One benefit of constructing a universe, or more accurately...a quadrant.  Is that the vast majority of its "landscape" is empty  This means large areas with occasional 3D intensive areas of celestial bodies in which to interact.  The Universe could be based on one or several servers.  The seamlessness of these servers is flexible considering travel from one star system to another would require warping. The warping visuals provide the "curtain" as you travel from server to server, or leave one area and pop up in another if using one single server.   The hope is to leave the universe expandable so that additions and changes can be made when appropriate(I'll go into this later).  
The Players
The Universe would be populated by several empires:  The Federation, Klingon, Romulan with possible various neutral, rebel and pirate factions. The Federation, Klingon and Romulans would all be player selectable, while various other factions would be CPU controlled and possibly player selectable also.  Each empire controls a sizable portion of the quadrant.  With the vast majority non-occupied and the rest controlled by small neutral races.  
Game Objectives
The universe is peppered with star systems consisting of planets, nebulas, asteroid belts, etc with varying levels of resource, scientific, and thus military value.  These systems will be spread amongst the Imperial territories and of course the unclaimed and neutral areas.  The goal is to explore these celestial bodies for qualifying levels of resources in order to set up resource facilities.  Many, if not most, celestial bodies will not have adequate resource levels.  A whole star system be void of celestial bodies with qualifying resource value.  Resource facilities will come in several forms including mining operations, productions facilities, etc.  These facilities consist of ground and/or orbital structures.   Many of those celestial bodies within an imperial territory will have production facilities present.  Those facilities on the fringes of the territories are of course in need of protection from rebels, pirates and of course players from opposing empires.  Not all resource rich celestial bodies will have facilities.  That's where exploration comes in.  "Go where no man has gone before"  Exploring your imperial territories and those areas unclaimed allows your empire to develop new resource facilities and expand their sphere of influence.  These newly acquired territories once unclaimed of course need protection.  One travels to star systems of unclaimed or fringe territories scan the area and systematically research its bodies.  Simply enter orbit or travel in close proximity and run the body through a series of scans.  It will take a little time, a couple of minutes or so, and boom the body is registered and the building of a production facility is set in motion.  A CPU controlled freighter warps in several minutes later, enters orbit and within 15mins or so a production facility, mining facility, etc is built.  The idea is that all star systems are known, with limit info on its make-up(i.e. celestial bodies composing it).  You have to warp to the system in order to scan the area for detailed information.  This allows you to locate all celestial bodies in area and to go to them.  As these bodies are scanned they are registered, meaning they are labeled discovered through out the empire.  Registering it also allows for more detailed info made available to those in the empire inquiring about that start system.  For instance, imperial info before discovery on a star system in unclaimed areas or fringe territories would provide the name of the star system and name of any known celestial bodies.  After discovery imperial info gives name of system all celestial bodies their class, resource value, facilities in system and celestial bodies they are associated with, etc.  Other empires can discover it, but its shown owned by the original discovering empire and they are required to scan the system in order to receive in-depth info for their empire.
All facilities can be taken over/destroyed or looted by other players or CPU controlled rebels, pirates, etc.  Defending these locations is key to the survival of the empire, as is acquiring new ones.  This isn't limited to ground based facilities, but orbiting logistic stations, freighters, science stations, etc.  Missions for such defensive mission will be auto-generated and offered to anyone in the area.  This means the starship discovering the resource rich planet which triggers the construction of a facility will receive the area defense request for protecting the construction of the facility.  After its completion, any friendly ship entering the area will receive a defense mission request.   Missions provide XP(experience points) after completion, which will be discussed later.  Mission are chosen from two windows,  an area mission list and a empire wide mission list.  The empire wide list will likely be large and can be condensed with filters.  
Missions can also come in the form of distress calls.  Facilities, freighters, stations, etc, under attack will emit distress calls, so if a supply freighter in-transit that hasn't received an escort despite its mission request can still receive help if attacked.  Of course a freighters ability to warp only makes it threatened while within the confines of a star system where warp is severely limited or prohibited.  This makes time before departure and time during arrival the most hazardous.  You can follow the freighter into warp and escort it on the other side also.  How do you know where the freighter is going?  Its mentioned in the mission request, but also if you a sensory lock on a vessel that goes into warp, its destination is "calculated" and provided(or a "follow" option is generated).  Everything else is usually on or in orbit of a celestial body.  Facilities will also have Early warning systems(EWS) that will generate warnings of enemy ships in the system.  Friendly ships warping in in response will of course receive the standard defense request mission.  
In addition to defending existing facilities, exploring new bodies, etc.  One can also attack opposing facilities.  All facilities are destroyable or capturable, depending on the facility, it take various numbers of marines.  In any case, one ship will not have enough marines to capture a facility.  One ship will have a hard time destroying a facility quickly.  This means bring friends!!!!  Capturing a facility minimizes the turn around time in getting the facility up and running.  As a star ship you will also run into CPU controlled ships of neutral, pirate, and rebel factions.  They can be randomly generate by mimicking a warp into the system and by having them there before you get there.  These ships can just be traveling to or from a planet, inbound to another, or getting ready to warp out.  They can also be attacking other ships, facilities etc.  You deal with them as you please. You may also run into the facilities of these various factions, discovering and scanning these facilities provides a small XP bonus.  In general you attack pirates and rebels.  Neutrals can be attacked, but it may be more beneficial to leave them in peace or helping them if under attack from rebels and pirates.  Neutrals will have distress signals receivable by all empires in the area.  Helping Neutrals, destroying rebels and pirates provides XP, but not much.  Attacking neutrals provides XP, also, but also tags you as a hostile for a while causing you to draw unwanted hostilities from them whenever in the vicinity of one.  This can make traveling through their areas troublesome.  You may not die from these attacks, but the XP cost for repairs may not be worth it.  
Now you don't have to select missions to receive XP, you receive XP for many things.  Mission completions just provide bonus XP.  These means one can fly around looking for fights and reaping the benefits of these encounters.  But there is an extrinsic benefit to providing ones services in the best interest of the empire and in empire controlled areas from the bonus in XP missions provide.
Character/Crew/Ship Development
There are several means of gathering XP.  These additional means are by research and exploration.  Finding and scanning new celestial bodies provides XP.  XP can be specific also.  Scientific XP(SXP) is received in addition to general XP when researching and exploring.   Finding nebulas may not provide a resource benefit, you wont know until you scan it, but continued scanning can on occasion uncover info not discovered with previous scans.  The usefulness of this info is purely scientific and provides an additional bonus in SXP.  You can sit there and continue to scan and you may come up with more info after many more scans.  Each subsequent discovery by you or anyone else within the empire provides only a fraction of the previous SXP pay out.  This simulates the difficulty in finding something new in well studied phenomenon. After a while the available SXP may be reset to allow for higher pay outs again.  Combat not only provides XP, but also Combat XP(CXP).  The amount is based on the vessel destroyed.  This CXP is used to improve the battle proficiency of the vessel.  Each increase in level requires more and more CXP to achieve, but provides only a fraction of benefit with respect to the previous level.  Meaning, the best will have an advantage, but at some point each increase becomes less influential.  This once again simulates the difficulty in learning some thing new within a well studied field.  The small increase wont necessarily provide you dominance over other ships, but may provide that additional buffer that keeps you shields up for the one more hit, or keeps your phaser banks from over-heating before the next shot.  It'll make a difference in the battle you get to limp home from.  
XP is like credit, a fusion of experience and cash.  XP is used for ship purchase, repair and upgrade.  SXP is for science station crew proficiency, CXP is for combat crew proficiency, including marines.  In order to use the various forms of XP you need to be docked at a Star Base.  A Star Base has heavy defenses, but can still be attacked...choose wisely.  Destruction of the Star Base has a wide damage area, being inside isn't a good idea.
Captains
In the beginning you get to pick or custom build a captain. The captain has strengths and weakness that affect overall ship attributes.  You have a budget when building your captain, so increases in one field means less for another.  Your captain can not be approved upon, or swapped out...its you.  As you improve in the game you are able to make up for some of the weakness by your own actions...in theory!
Senior Crewmen
Pick or custom build senior officers with XP.  They bring their strengths and weaknesses to their stations affecting the ships attributes in that particular field.
Ship
Pick a ship to command based on XP purchase price.  Each ship has a general default attribute, with minor fluctuations in certain areas(i.e. a little faster or slower, slightly stronger or weaker shields, etc.).  These fluctuations are further influenced by Captain and Senior crew attributes.  Upgrades  you can upgrade your ship with XP.  with various increases in stronger engines, weapons, shields, sensors, etc.  The upgrades aren't huge but may make a difference in life or death in a close fight.  A portion of XP for upgrades is transferable when trading up to a new ship.  Ships can be war ships research ships and if possible neutral ships and merchant ships of any empire or faction.  
Mission dynamics and XP
As said, Exploring is key.  Encountering, finding, fighting, aiding, patrolling, escorting and researching all are means of gaining XP.  Dying, repairs and purchases reduces XP.  Missions provide XP bonuses, multiple ships can take the same mission and receive the mission points.  In fact there can be a bonus multiplier for each ship who is participating or participated in the mission once completed.
Patrols Remaining in the patrol area(star system) for specified period of time awards XP.  Destroying a threat during the patrol provides the additional XP awarded for the kill.
Escorting  Remaining with a ship from launch/orbit to dock/orbit.  Destroying a threat provides additional XP.  Lose of the "package" can result in lose of XP, gaining a percentage of mission XP based on percentage of transit completed or no XP gain at all.
Research Provides XP for ship and SXP for science senior officer/station
Combat Provides XP for ship and CXP for combat senior officers/stations
Finding new civilizations Some uncharted planets will have various levels of intelligent life not yet known.  Scanning the planet provides this info.  XP is paid out and no other friendly ship can receive points for the discovery.  Attacking the planet, destroying the population and establishing facilities is possible.  Ramifications for killing them will vary based on imperial directives(next).
Breaking Imperial Directives  Some empires have certain rules.  Breaking these rules can have dire effects on XP.  For instance...attacking or killing non-hostiles. Showing signs of aggression in non-hostile territories(shields up, weapons powered up), not including unclaimed areas.   Attacking non-hostiles can also make you a fugitive of that faction in that area or if encountered outside the area for given amount of time, leaving you open for constant attack.  Klingons would possibly lose XP for initiating a fight, but leaving the area without destroying them.  Directives may affect the Federation more than others, but is part of the checks and balances that makes each empire unique(I have to think about other directives for the other empires).  Of course a planet attacked by the Klingons is open for attack by the Federation...I mean this war.
Logistic XP awarded by successfully loading, transporting and unloading material.  Merchant ships can carry more material so they receive more XP points per completion
Politics
Its pretty simple, hostiles are hostiles so deal with them accordingly. Neutrals are neutral, deal with accordingly.  Neutrals can become hostile, usually by your own doing, even defending a friendly from hostile neutrals he/she provoked.
The ability to captain neutral ships allows those who do not desire to participate as a major empire the option to fly within the unique confines of neutrality. This has its plus and minuses.  You can pilot star ships which are generally out-classed by their imperial counter parts in terms of weapons and shields.  You can patrol any neutral area as a Mercenary gaining XP(though reduced relative to imperial ships) doing missions.  Once again these missions are escorting, defending, logistics, etc.  Of course destroying an imperial ship provides significant XP points.  Transit into imperial territories is possible, but your status may be considered rebel, pirate or smuggler depending on the mission chosen(why else would you be performing a mission in there territory?).  Non-mission transit through imperial territory is ok, but may still result in attack...depends on how the player in the imperial star ship feels about you.   So knowing who owns what is a plus, Its a good idea to scan the area and identify who is there and who it belongs too.  Loading/unloading in imperial territory is only advised when on one is around.  If the research facility looks of Klingon design..be cautious before you complete the transaction.  Scans of your cargo hold may give you away also.  Investing in good counter measures will be a plus, but that may give you away too.  Benefits of neutral merchant shipping is good XP pay out, and the potential for surprisingly advance cargo ships later on(great for smuggling).  One can gather large amounts of XP which is transferable if one decides to join the ranks of an empire.  Of course in the process of cashing out your ship for XP only a fraction of that XP transfers over.  Another problem is that you may be limited to only transferring to the Federation.  You maybe able to switch back, but once again, only a fraction of XP transfers over, of course a larger portion transfers from Federation to Neutral.  Only XP(not SXP or CXP) and captains attributes transfers either way.
Invasion
One can enter an opposing/hostile territories, but expect a lot of attention.  Facilities will send out EWS warnings to friendlies drawing in hostiles.  Facilities will have defenses.  Some facilities have stronger defenses than others based on location, value, etc.  The deeper you go into the territory and the more valuable the area the harder it will be to affect enemy facilities, so bring friends. Deeper attacks will require coordinated efforts.  There is a limit to where you can go.  Certain star systems deep inside the territory will be consider core systems.  These layers of systems can only be entered under specific situations.  The empire is required to be weakened through lose of resource facilities or severely out-matched in numbers of resource facilities to justify a weak enough state to allow invasion.  As production levels decrease, thresholds trigger their corresponding  layers of star systems to open up for invasion.  Once production levels drop enough the home system is open for attack.  Despite low production levels, the Home system will still have significant defenses once again requiring coordinate action.  Low production levels also affect life in the outer territories.  As production drops, resources are naturally trickled toward the core systems.  Star Bases in the exterior will have fewer available resources, repairs will become increasingly incomplete.  In order to get the best or even the necessities, one would find himself needing to go to the interior territories.  Here lies the problem in losing production facilities.  In order to gain new production facilities you have to be conquering on the fringes of the territory, this provides better available equipment, faster and more complete repairs, etc, but necessity draws you toward the core systems.    The destruction of the empire begins to spiral out of control as resources are lost, star ship presence is need at the fringes , but best resources are near the interior where a new threat of invasion may begin.  Resources and ships begin to be stretched too thin.  Losing your ship and respawning now means your shields aren't able to reach 100%, phasers take longer to recharge, failures are more common, etc.  Meanwhile the enemy gains proficiency and more of your resource facilities.  Once production losses drop below certain levels and/or the home world takes certain amount of damage, the empire is considered destroyed.  Once one empire is left or controls a certain amount of territory, the war ends.  The universe is reset, celestial bodies and/or their attributes are randomly shuffled(so its never the same game twice)and the war begins again.
Entering the Game World  
First time in game you chose your start point, a number of  Star Bases in the core systems.  Star Bases are where game progress is saved and where you enter the game whenever you re-enter the universe to play.  Repairs and purchases, crew selection etc, happen here.  This where you have an opportunity to scroll through area and territory wide generated missions.  At the same time there is a post board where individual players put up coordinated actions(i.e. massing up at Oostal-3 for a mass attack on Rega-Alpha, launch time 21:00).  A map of the quadrant with known territories marked would display hot points and EWS icons.  The map will also provide known information on the star system being queried.  Chat windows would allow for coordination and communication.  This allows for ease in coordinating  attacks since sustained bombardments will be required to eliminate valuable facilities and to defend the attack from hostiles.

New additions:
* You can only save at friendly or Neutral Star Bases
* Imperial repairs at neutral star bases are more expensive and never at 100%(difficulty in having and high black market cost for imperial parts, lack of sufficent miscellaneous parts to install at peak proficency)
* Crippled ships unable to transit to nearest star base due to warp or impulse failures must request a tow to the nearest freindly or neutral star base(star base will not be in every system), at a high XP price.
* No XP, or not enough XP for repairs, etc? Then you have to do what you can with what you have(hopefully you can atleast get to a peaceful area where you can XP without getting attacked).  If crippled you can get a new ship, but of a lesser class, all XP is liquidated, upgrades are lost(upgrade XP value can be cashed in if at a star base) and possibly even your crew(thus liquidating any SXP and CXP values also).  This equates to a demotion and loss of skilled crew...you start fresh, but atleast you not neccessarly forced to captain a low-end frieghter or small war ship(unless you havent advanced very far).

These ideas are to help deter reckless command, to deter the willingness to die pointlessly, to encourage preservationof life, but simultaneously allowing the death penalty to not mean you cant play(even for really bad capatains).
Proficeny bonus are designed to those with head starts in game play, from gaining such an advantage(outside to access to more powerful ships) that newbies cant have a chance to compete.  The goal is to for example a starting value of 100 for profiency with each increase being harder to achieve but providing less of an advantage.  So level 0 amy equal 100, level 1 may equal 110, but level 3 would only be 115, etc.  until you hit a hard ceiling of maybe 120.  Each subsequent level  may require twice or up to 10 times more XP to achieve the next.  There maybe a streak bonus that would be applied on top of this depending on how much XP is gained without dying(for CXP only) that goes away once you die.  This streak bonus may be as high as 5 or so(2 would probably be better for balance)...pretty significant regardless of what part of the profiency spectrum you reside.   The hope is that experience and a little luck determines better captains, not artifical game induced advantages, but has everyone gain experience(learnig all there is to learn) a little induced advantage adds spice to engagements that may become routine.
Thats all for now.  One thing I do ask, is that people try and break this basic foundation on paper.  Meaning, run scenerios in your head and come back with any problems or questions.  Example:  I found a planet in an unclaimed territory.  It has sufficent resoures, what happens next?  I'd come back and answer:  You wait, within a few minutes a freighter warps into the system(it doesnt really come from anywhere really, its just spawned in out of nowhere under the disguise of warp), enters orbit and a resource facility begins to be constructed.  A area defense mission auto generates that you can take to defend the construction or you can leave.  The planet appears on the imperial map board for all in the empire to see and retrieve info on, to visit if the please and defend(I think it would be cool for there to be a means of identifing who actually discovered it).  
 

nattydread

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Re: I love the series, but something is still miss
« Reply #64 on: January 26, 2003, 04:46:36 am »
Ha, i went through th eprocess of getting the whole idea posted and everyone lost interest  

Blitzkrieg

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Re: I love the series, but something is still miss
« Reply #65 on: January 26, 2003, 09:53:55 am »
Man thats long lol... have you ever played any of the Elite serious by the way?

Jackal99

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Re: I love the series, but something is still miss
« Reply #66 on: January 26, 2003, 11:04:45 am »
@nattydread

that would be the PERFECT ST-game, great idea of yours and a great post as well  .

well done
 

Raptor013

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Re: I love the series, but something is still miss
« Reply #67 on: January 26, 2003, 09:04:11 pm »
I assure you I have not lost interest.  I read your post and I think your ideas are great.  It would be nice to see them implemented in the game.  

nattydread

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Re: I love the series, but something is still miss
« Reply #68 on: January 26, 2003, 10:01:51 pm »
Glad you all like.  The hope is that Taldren will be interested in it and take it.  I'll give it to them if they'll run with it!  My only goal is to see it realized so I can play it.  


As mentioned(in case you missed it), if yu have time and dont mind, polease try and break the model by thinking of scenerios and situtations that may cause kinks and post them here.  Also if you have any questions or not sure how something would play out, please post them here.  I want to amke sure the game model is solid.
Thanks!
« Last Edit: January 26, 2003, 11:31:09 pm by nattydread »

Son of Technobabble

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Re: I love the series, but something is still miss
« Reply #69 on: January 27, 2003, 06:42:27 am »
I'd definitely buy that

kitten

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Re: I love the series, but something is still miss
« Reply #70 on: January 27, 2003, 08:32:39 am »
wonderful ideas, but i fear that you are asking for too much.

maybe something simpler, like a 'battlefield 1942' set in a sci-fi universe?

don't get me wrong, i love your ideas, but i'm afraid of making the game that tries to be everything, and ends up not being made at all, or poorly (BC3K).
   

nattydread

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Re: I love the series, but something is still miss
« Reply #71 on: January 27, 2003, 06:52:46 pm »
Kitten:
Understood Kitten but if it was like BF1942, it would be just like every other multiplayer game.  A simple shoot out at the OK Corral(sp?) .  I also feel its do-able and it would be too much for those unwilling to make the effort.  The resulting revolution in genre I think is worth it all.  Not too mention this next-step in multilayer gaming is being done already in Dungeons & Dragons type RPGs and a WWII simulator right now.  You see to me,  simple small scale battles with repeated spawns(without consequence), limited space and single-minded intentions are nothing more than a simplistic, tactically and strategically insulting, perversion of combat and war.  Its just a prolonged skirmish in a bottle!  Now that isnt an insult to the folks who makes this game, its just the nature of teh genre.  One that I accepted for so long until I saw and realized that there is something more that is missing.  I've done the mulitpayer battle thing since Rainbow 6 when it was the pinnicale of this revolutionary genre...but its getting old.  
I begin to realize that there is more to war, combat, etc than just the fight.  The fight is the final piece in a tapestry thats been building up to the engagement.  Ideally, those things done before the engagment have almost or more to do with the outcome then the men and machines themselves.  These are some of things that are missing and need inclusion in order to have a more comprehensive and satisfying battle.  
First thing, war isnt fighting 100% of the time.   In current games everybody is in combat mode 100%, there are no lulls, no opportunity to drop one's guard.  That makes real surprise attacks, ambushes, etc impossible.  My idea creates situtations that draws one attention from combat.  Yes, the threat of hostilities does exhist in the back of your head, but there is a differnece between having your gun holstered knowing there is a threat, compared to walking around with your rifle shouldered 100% of the time looking for your next target.  In fact Ive been thinking about the shields.  Im thinking within my game idea there has to be a reason to keep people from having their shield up all time(besides it being an act of hostilty), shields are never up 100% of the time in Star Trek episodes unless under threat.  
Second, Id like damage to and destroyed vesels to matter.  Even if people can repeatly spawn new ones(with consequnces), the idea that I can affect the players I encounter to the point where they fear the consequences of their own losses means:
* players will think twice about wasting ones ships irresponsibly
* the intrinsic desire to live basically becomes attrition of units as players conceed to stronger and more coordinated forces, thus going to other areas or coordinating a suitable counter-attack
* for the first time you'll see real tactical retreats, value of the area/situtation, etc and liklihood of losses will determine the neccessity to stay and fight.  Sometimes its better to retreat, repair and re-group in order to live another day so that one can take back what was lost and/or crush those who had the upper-hand on you.
* one's desire for survival will generate more team oriented and coordinated operations
* Finally the elimination of the "bloodlust" type gameplay we've been cursed with!  War is not about killing, war is about attaining goals...it just so happens killing is often required.  One who stands over the fallen to insure his death is ignoring his reason for being there anyway, it also opens you up for attack by his commrade.  Instead, elimnate your foe as a threat and continue with the mission at hand.  
 
Now I do realize my idea is complex and it does require a lot.  Because of this Ive come accept that some stuff may have to be left out, but the concept of a large inter-linked network of systems, resource allocation, XP accumilation and research/exploration must stay.  These are the basis of the experience with neutral parties, merchant and frieghter vessels being expendable.

 

   

Raptor013

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Re: I love the series, but something is still miss
« Reply #72 on: January 27, 2003, 08:49:44 pm »
I agree with you completely.  I like the SFC games, but, the gameplay seems almost mindless.  I mean no disrespect to anyone or the game, itself.  The game is quite enjoyable.  I'm just saying that I'd like something fresher.  Something that the players can actually make a difference in and have everyone else in the game feel the impact of each player's actions.  

kitten

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Re: I love the series, but something is still miss
« Reply #73 on: January 27, 2003, 09:19:35 pm »
i have to wonder how many people would enjoy logging in to play for a few hours, and spend that time on patrol, with no enemy encounter?

the game has to be fun, too.

 

kitten

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Re: I love the series, but something is still miss
« Reply #74 on: January 27, 2003, 09:22:39 pm »
instead of auto-respawning, what if you had to pay for each character on the server? oooh, that would be evil.

 

Aliasalpha

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Re: I love the series, but something is still miss
« Reply #75 on: January 27, 2003, 10:41:32 pm »
It'd sure as hell stop ME from playing...  

nattydread

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Re: I love the series, but something is still miss
« Reply #76 on: January 28, 2003, 01:29:09 am »
Trust me, i dont think you'd have a problem finding a fight.  First, missions aret required, they just provide bonuses.  The idea of the game is that it gives you flexibilty in game play.  EWS  and distress calls alone will bring plenty of attention to you if you decide to wreck havoc!!  EWS and distress calls will also tell you where to find action(warping makes engagments almost immediate).  Certain areas will likly draw a lot of action, people who want to fight will know where to go.  Those who want to figt will nothave a problem finding a fight.  The reason is because most people, all people at one time or another, will be looking to pick a fight...trust me!!  Even the most researchor neutral oriented person is going to go looking for a little phaser luvin' at time or another.  
Patrols will be for those behind the scene type people, those who recognize the value of a target and realize that like minded people will eventually come for it.  Its a great way to gain XP without needing to fight or when things are slow.  Patrols are no more than what you'd be doing in a star system anyway.  But like I said, if you wanna fight, just warp into an oppossing empires territory, find a star system with a resource facility and bombard it, the EWS will alert everyone in the oppossing empire, the distress call from the attack will let em know you mean business...this will bring more than enough people to fight(so bring a friend!!)
Push goes to shove they can create a few centralized contested star systems, it would be an area located near all the imperial territories(like the center hub on a nuclear symbol).  This area would be a free-fire area with no missions, go in and shoot willy-nilly until your heart's content.  
Also, a patrol mission wouldnt be for an hour, it would be like 20-30 mins.
« Last Edit: January 31, 2003, 07:41:30 pm by nattydread »

Blitzkrieg

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Re: I love the series, but something is still miss
« Reply #77 on: January 28, 2003, 04:14:26 am »
Sure there are problems with this but after all its somthing far greater and more grand a gesture than what is being put forward today. As I said before, have you played Elite? Seriously go download Elite 2 or 3, 1 if you really want to know what it was all about.

Elite online but with more of team approach and Star Trek feel, surely this is gota be the apple in some developers eye?

****Edit****

Doh I just did that and forgot, it only runs in pure Dos mode. You will just have to take my word for it lol.
« Last Edit: January 28, 2003, 04:29:54 am by Blitzkrieg »

nattydread

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Re: I love the series, but something is still miss
« Reply #78 on: January 28, 2003, 05:18:38 am »
Naw, never played Elite.   I really hope someome picks this up.  Im starting see myself become more and more dissatified with games out right now.  Developing this in my head as sort of brought to light all thats missing 99% of the multiplayer games currently out there.   I need something to keep me interested, to fulfill those gaming needs Ive developed.  I play one game that is doing it(differnet game setting),  but they are taking so much time to get it together that its driving me crazy.   They are creating the complete game, thats why I know it can be done with Star Trek.  Either one would be good, having both would mean i wouldnt see the sun for weeks.

nattydread

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Re: I love the series, but something is still miss
« Reply #79 on: January 28, 2003, 08:02:35 pm »
I was thinking about the whole shields and weapons powered up 100% of the time issue(if you see it as an issue).   I figure let shields and weapons slowly, very slowly, drain XP until an enemy or neutral vessel is targeted.  Once targeted the XP drain is stopped, 5 mins after the last lock the timer starts again if shields and weapons remained powered up.

I have also been thinking about a longe range strike weapon.  Im sure this has been discused before, it obvious Star Trek vessels are based on mid-century naval warships.  The basics being in vessel class and basic weapons: i.e. phasers are main guns, torpedos are torpedos, I assume cloaked vessels are the equivilant of a submarine, shuttles have been experimented as carrier fighters, etc.  The thing is should we stay with the basic post WWII parallels or attempt parallel modern developments in naval warfare.   Ill discuss this later, back to strike weapons.  What happened to the equivilent of the Harpoon anti-ship missle? Basically a long range strike weapon that is a projectile in limited numbers(3-5), limited power(no more or even less than a torpedo), single shot, with tracking capabilities, but limited manuverabilty.  Its basically a first-strike stand-off weapons that can be locked on and destroyed by a single phaser/disruptor shot.  Its basically a destroyer and crusier type weapon that is useless against crusier class and smaller type vessels( unless slow and unaware). Its main goal is to provide a pre-emptive strike against large capital ships with strong shields and armor but low manuverabilty(of course the sheer amount of guns may still make them pointless except under the right conditions...a little luck helps too).  I figured every race would have a sligtly different kind.  Klingons would have high damage rating, but the excess weight and sub-standard sensors makes it less accurate.  Romulans would have a cloaking version with a significantly lower damage rating( because the cloaking device takes up space)  The missile could possibly de-cloak in the target vicinity for various reasons: To gain a proper fix on its target, maybe the missle cant track well while cloaked, to route power for final manuvering, weapon charge up, etc.  Feds would have a modrate damage rating with good tracking.  All would have a secondary "area burst" if the target is missed, but still within range...it will nothave th eabilty to come-back around for a second pass.
I also thought about:  What happened to the ASW helos/planes(sub hunters) or AWAC veseels(they'd occupy similar roles in this game.  AWACs would basically be a small vessel with one hell of a sensor array to help detect cloaked vessels, but minimal defensive weapons, their prescence could provide a small increase in detecing cloaked vessels for all in the area of teh same empire.  Speed and manuverabilty would be its saving grace.  The ASW would be similar but it would have limited torpedos available and small phaser compliment.  It would be slower than the AWAC and more power-limited because of its weapons.  Power-management would be key, avoiding enemy fire is essential.  These vessels are mainly of use only against cloaked vessels...and cloaked anti-ship missle too.  They are more equivilent to the ship launched helios and very vulnerable.  
I thought about fighters, but honestly fighters are only threats to other fighters or light torpedo or bombers planes.  Plus fighters, torpedo planes and bombers are usually carrier or land based. Fighters are mainly pointless against a ships and torpedo/bombers are mainly single use...once again pointless unless AI controlled.  They would be good for star base defense though.  I personally dont see how a carrier could hold its own with dedicated escort and defense by capital ships.  Basically the Star Base is the closest thing to a carrier, slow, large but its well defended and another good platform for use of an anti-ship missle...for or against!!  
« Last Edit: January 29, 2003, 01:17:14 am by nattydread »

Raptor013

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Re: I love the series, but something is still miss
« Reply #80 on: January 28, 2003, 09:10:00 pm »
No one game is going to please everyone.  If they don't want to play it, they don't have to.  The point is, there will be people who will truly enjoy that type of game.  As nattydread said, it wouldn't take hours to find a fight.  I, for one, just want a fresh gaming experience.  I just want a more colorful gaming experience in the Star Trek universe.  These are some good ideas.  I believe this type of game would have far more replay value.  It would, definitely, keep me coming back for more.  

nattydread

  • Guest
Re: I love the series, but something is still miss
« Reply #81 on: January 31, 2003, 02:16:24 am »
No new ideas, thoughts, etc?  I see a lot of reads, but not many comments.  I was hoping for more feed-back to insure this was a viable idea for which I thought any Trekkie would appreciate and push to implemented.   For those reading this, but didnt comment, what are your opinions, desires, etc?  This isnt so much for me, but for all of us.  Its for the Star Trek genre to insure its progress and isnt limited to its current form.  If you think the idea is worthwhile, or not, please chime in.

Atrahasis

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Re: I love the series, but something is still miss
« Reply #82 on: January 31, 2003, 03:37:14 am »
You know what? A game like that will be made some day.  

nattydread

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Re: I love the series, but something is still miss
« Reply #83 on: January 31, 2003, 07:01:22 am »
yeah, I figured that, but why eventually...why not now?  It can be done, it doesnt require any new technology, it can use current graphics so it shouldnt require any more of a system than current games.  Its so do-able, why wait?

Raptor013

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Re: I love the series, but something is still miss
« Reply #84 on: January 31, 2003, 01:23:50 pm »
I agree that the ability to create such a game does exist.  It may be a few years before we see the game you speak of.  I'm no programmer, so I have no idea how long it would take.  I just know it would take a long time.  My mind has been a bit slow lately, but, if a good idea pops in my head, I'll post it.  

SghnDubh

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Re: I love the series, but something is still miss
« Reply #85 on: January 31, 2003, 02:12:51 pm »

So, in a nutshell,

EverQuest meets Star Trek.

Is that the take on this idea?

Blitzkrieg

  • Guest
Re: I love the series, but something is still miss
« Reply #86 on: January 31, 2003, 05:46:54 pm »
Just use a basic principle of

does a Solar system go here yes/no
how many planets/what type etc
what goes there, yardy yarda

Use the Elite (yes I will keep mentioning it) basis for moving from one place to another with a few Star Trek tweaks, consider then the payability (ship to ship) far more and build some AI and an economy plus political system. Ok not too much to do so far, erm I cant see any problems.

WAIT....The only problems I can see is getting it online, the sort of system required to manage such a Universe would be all but impossible considering todays servers and networks. If you think that this is possible, then be ready to pay large sums of money on a monthly basis for somthing that would be literaly out of this world and beyond anything ever attempted before.

Ok - time out Blitz  

 

nattydread

  • Guest
Re: I love the series, but something is still miss
« Reply #87 on: January 31, 2003, 07:55:49 pm »
So how much would you be willing to pay for this game, how much do you think it will cost.   I currently pay $13 a month for one game I have.  I'd pay that for this game.

Yes the game does have a RPG aspect to it, that the goal.  I assum Asheron's Call woul dhave to track similar, maybe more, info then this game would. Granted its a Microsoft game  so the resources are there, but I wager that the info required to be saved wouldnt be much for each player.  The server wouldnt need to handle everything, much of the wrok would be client side, the server just needs to relay most  info to players in the same system, only a small bit would be required to relay universe/quadrant wide(star system specs).  This would be even smaller bits of info for text and icons for maps and missions.  The thing is, each players sphere of awareness for other players(likly the bulk of info transmitted and recieved by teh server) would be limited to the star system they are in.  A small seperate map and chat server would handle most universe/quadrant wide info.
The good thing about the idea is that its expandable.  The universe doesnt have to supper big in the beginning.  They can increase it as it becomes neccessary.

nattydread

  • Guest
Re: I love the series, but something is still miss
« Reply #88 on: February 04, 2003, 02:18:53 am »
shameless attempt to keep th epost from dying.  Hopefully it'll be seen by someone in Taldren who can make use of it.  Gee whiz, im just giving it away!

Raptor013

  • Guest
Re: I love the series, but something is still miss
« Reply #89 on: February 04, 2003, 03:29:53 pm »
I'd pay that much to play it.  

nattydread

  • Guest
Re: I love the series, but something is still miss
« Reply #90 on: August 12, 2003, 01:06:12 am »
one last shameless bump.  its been awhile.

nx_adam_1701

  • Guest
Re: I love the series, but something is still miss
« Reply #91 on: August 12, 2003, 11:04:41 pm »
I love the ideas, Nattydread, wonderful game indeed, Id even pay $20 a month, we pay much more on crap, atleast this money goes to entertainment that we all want, about the warp, I could see where thats a problem but I think a scale should be done, I mean if your warping from one solar system to an adjacent solar system it should only be maybe like half a minute or so..., eervyy additional one should be 30 seconds, so if you want to travel 5 , itll take 2 minutes and a half, i mean you want something realistic right  lol lol its hard to figure out, get a soda or beer past the time lol, but serious, now warp should be standard for science missions, maximum should be used for emergencies, now my idea for traveling far is make several worm holes, i mean we have some stable ones in Star Trek, so we cheat, find new ones, ok  i mean OMG theres a distress call from a federation ship in sector yadada ok itll take me 2 minutes to reach the nearest wormhole from there I will get closer i mean everyone wants to eat there cake and eat it too, its difficult the warp thing because if we do like BC itll be unrealistic, ok a war breaks out, everybody and their mother will get to the cordinates in seconds, thats not fair to the attackers, it has to be realistic not everyone get there instantly, the wormholes are a good idea to speed things up. Now about the huge amount of space and boring missions, i mean there should be some patches continuously to make sure that new things are in place, like a deadly virus, or a star explosion, pirates, new species discovered, we all enjoy watching star trek, i love it thats for sure, but there are alot of episodes that had no fighting envolved, alot of science and exploration DS9 was about the only one that had fights atleast every other episode lol lol, the patches can make new things every now and then, maybe a species just learned about warp drive, and now theyre entering space, good science missions where we could be surprised, plus aint wont be that boring with tons of people invovled, i mean everybody isnt going to be part of the same race everyone will be unique, if a ferengi vessel stole cargo from a federation ship which happens often lol, then someone will investigate, i dont know, im just throwing stuff out there, the borg have transwarp gates, i see that they wont have a problem getting anywhere lol, last but not least, the wormholes can solve alot, and the continuous patches everynow and then can solve the boringness of the exploration, i mean if people constantly make mods for these games, a program should be made for some people to make new bases, species, missions etc...

adam out
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 06:00:00 pm by nx_adam_1701 »