Topic: No letters from Philadelphia.  (Read 5709 times)

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Captain KoraH

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No letters from Philadelphia.
« on: April 01, 2003, 05:23:17 pm »
Back in February of 1991 I received a letter from Philadelphia. It was written by a 35 year old single mother of two. It was addressed "To: Any Soldier". I was a soldier, in the deserts of Iraq, fighting a war against an evil tyrant who tortured, murdered and raped his way into Kuwait. I never got any mail, so when a letter came to us addressed "To: Any Soldier", it was given to me. The letter spoke of what things were like in America, and how proud everyone was of us over there. The letter ended with the words "...and thanks for being there for us when we needed you." I tore off the cardboard top of a ration box and wrote a letter back to Philadelphia. "You're Welcome" it said, and I addressed it "From: Any Soldier".

Now there are soldiers like me in those same Iraqi deserts. Fighting the same evil tyrant who is committing the same torture, the same murder and the same rape as before, this time to his own people. Why now, when we return to overthrow the tyrant, to bring freedom from the despot to those who are now the same innocents as the Kuwaitis before, why now are we not as enthusiastic about their freedom and their lives? The people not appreciate the soldiers and their sacrifice like they did back then. The people argue and bicker and protest. They question our purpose, although our purpose is the same as it was back then. The press complains that the war is taking too long, and the stock market is down because investors fear they might have to actually pay for the war this time around. Our soldiers of today do not receive letters like Philadelphia's, but one thing is sure. Their reply would still be the same. Even while the fighting is twice as hard, and the troops die twice as many, but the public seems only half as grateful.

Some Americans say it's hard to be proud of America these days. But the soldiers still fight and die, so that those Americans can say anything they want, and because that freedom should not end at America's border.

Weather you support the war or not,

Support Our Troops.







 

Parislord

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Re: No letters from Philadelphia.
« Reply #1 on: April 01, 2003, 05:46:27 pm »
Well, I don't know about the ground forces, but Navy families have been specifically requested by the DON not to send random letters (from classes and such address to no specific person) or care packages due to the concern over the mail being used to ship letterbombs or other forms of mail-born sabotage to the troops.

On CNN, last night a similar request was put forth by some four-star or other.

I don't think it's necessarily indicative of lacking support, but following instructions given (ie. supporting the troops by following the militaries suggested guidelines for dependants and family members).

 

Wiz33

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Re: No letters from Philadelphia.
« Reply #2 on: April 01, 2003, 08:07:25 pm »
  i don't know how often a service person will get access to email? How about setting a general mailboxthat can fullfill the same function.

Regards
Wiz
 

Tulmahk

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Re: No letters from Philadelphia.
« Reply #3 on: April 01, 2003, 08:22:52 pm »
Wow, KoraH I didn't know that about you.

I'm behind the war effort AND the troops 100%.  They are buying a democracy for the Iraqis with their blood.  One day in the distant future, they will look back and say, "That was the day evil was lifted from us.  That was the day those American troops set us free..."

From me to you KoraH, thank you for your service to our country.  I for one appreciate it.  

Wiz33

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Re: No letters from Philadelphia.
« Reply #4 on: April 01, 2003, 11:54:54 pm »
Quote:

Wow, KoraH I didn't know that about you.

I'm behind the war effort AND the troops 100%.  They are buying a democracy for the Iraqis with their blood.  One day in the distant future, they will look back and say, "That was the day evil was lifted from us.  That was the day those American troops set us free..."

From me to you KoraH, thank you for your service to our country.  I for one appreciate it.  




  Let's hope they have better memory than the French.

Regards
Wiz  

Credo Narth

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Re: No letters from Philadelphia.
« Reply #5 on: April 02, 2003, 08:14:04 am »
Shame to see that nobody seems to be studying history these days. Back in the days before the great nation that is USA existed, a bunch of farmers and settlers were running around trying to get their independence from the British. That the French intervened on their side and assisted them is one of the prime reasons why we have the US of A today. So WW2 is more like evening the score.

Also, we won't get into the fact that the US did nothing when the Germans invaded Poland, Belgium, Holland, France, etc, etc, etc. The European war carried on for 2 years before the Japanese were stupid enough to bomb Pearl Harbor. The only reason the Americans ended up liberating France was because the Germans were allies of the Japanese. If this wasn't the case, the French would be wearing jackboots and eating wiener schnitzels instead of berets and croissants. So the allies weren't liberating France as much as they were invading Germany, it was merely a beneficial by-product of the war.

As for the current events in Iraq, Firstly, 1991 was a political shambles that should never have happened. The Iraqis actually asked their then allies, the Americans, whether they would react to the annexation of Kuwait. The Americans actually approved it, then realised that their ally would also probably also take Saudi Arabia, which was an unacceptable state of affairs, given the oil reserves in the three countries. If the original Bush administration had foresight, they would have never have allowed Iraq to invade.

(We won't get into the conspiracy theory here that the US had decided that Saddam had outlived his purpose as an American ally, and that letting him take Kuwait was just a ploy to give him enough rope to hang himself, and disarm him of all the WMDs that the Americans had sold to him in the first place.)

In the end, the coalition did the world a great service when they re-took Kuwait, and succeeded in largely disarming Iraq. But this was again a by-product of a greater aim, to ensure the stability of global oil production and distribution. Without the oil, nobody could have cared less whether Iraqis, camels or Klingons invaded Kuwait.

This time around, matters are even more convoluted. The intention of Resolution 1441 (is that the right number?) is to ensure that Iraq is disarmed of WMDs. At no point does it refer to liberating Iraq from Saddam's tyranny. This is for one critical reason. No matter how noble, or even how moral, it is an illegal act under international law for any country to interfere with another country's sovereign rights. Not that I like lawyers at all, but laws are laws, I'm afraid.

There are other reasons why we should shy away from pretending to liberate Iraq. In the Despot Hall of Fame, Saddam is but a bit-player. Compared to Pol Pot's killing fields in Cambodia, Stalin's gulags in Siberia, and Hitler's concentration camps in Europe, Vlad the Impaler, Rome's gladiatorial slaughters, even the Catholic Church's persecution of the Jews, he's bad, but not that bad.

Also, we should take into account Iraq's history, with over 100 years of systematic invasion and occupation by a host of countries, especially Britain. The Iraqi people hate invaders of any sort, and for any reason. And they especially hate Britain and the US. There has been, in certain areas, a significant increase in infant mortality and deformities in certain parts of Iraq since 1991. These places coincide with areas where a lot of depleted uranium shells were used. Many Iraqis believe that the US actively tried to poison them by using these munitions.

As the situation stands, I can't see a way in which anybody will win. Ideally, Saddam and his family will be killed either by coalition bombs, or by a member of his military followers. In this situation, the coalition should make hasty their departure, and let the UN and aid organisations rebuild the country's infrastructure. But will they? Doubtful. The Bush administration wants to eradicate every component of Saddam's regime, even if a part is involved in killing Saddam. In this situation, the Iraqis will feel invaded yet again, breeding further resentment against the West, building further willingness to act, creating further branches of terrorist cells and networks. This will have a significant impact on us for years to come.

In the meantime, let's not forget why we're there in the first place. Disarming Iraq of WMDs. But this whole area is being studiously avoided by the Bush administration, and for good reason. What if there are no WMDs left in Iraq? Not only would this negate the only legal justification for war, it would also make the administration, the American military and the CIA look incredibly stupid. Almost as stupid as the systems that allowed 9/11 to happen in the first place, even when there were enough clues to stop it. And if there are any WMDs left? It's hard to see how any officer or scientist in charge of a hidden stockpile somewhere in the far corner of the country would resist the offer of a million dollars from a representative Mr bin Laden to give him the keys to the armory.

Hate him or loathe him, Saddam is a stabilizing influence in Iraq. As long as he's in power, no terrorist networks will be able to access them, because their mutual hatred exceeds our distaste for Saddam. Also, of what WMDs he has left, there aren't enough to use for any purpose except as a last-gasp means of avoiding invasion. So as long as he's there, we can keep an eye on them. Get rid of him, and the task of securing WMDs fast enough to ensure they don't fall into the wrong hands becomes impossible.

I honestly hope and pray that all coalition soldiers come back safe, they're doing their duty and they should be proud of that. But the short-sightedness and incompetence of the Bush administration in ignoring the long-term impacts of going into Iraq is tragic. The $90 billion spent on this folly would have been much better invested in understanding and negating far more significant terrorist threats to the US.

I'm not bothered about being flamed, what I am bothered about is the blind faith of people in an administration that is driving the country to ruin, and ignoring the real threats while putting the lives of good soldiers from all countries at risk for this folly.

My $ 0.02's worth.

 

Wiz33

  • Guest
Re: No letters from Philadelphia.
« Reply #6 on: April 02, 2003, 12:06:44 pm »
>>>Also, we won't get into the fact that the US did nothing when the Germans invaded Poland, Belgium, Holland, France, etc, etc, etc. The European war carried on for 2 years before the Japanese were stupid enough to bomb Pearl Harbor.<<<

  So on one hand we are being blamed for other nations inability to defend their own country.  And on the other hand we are being blame for being the World's policeman trying to prevent the same from happening again.

  Yes, The war is political as all war is. It is true that if the same thing is happen in some country with no major resources. We may just sit around and do notihing. The problem is that we would get blame in either case. If we don't do anything and 5 years from now a WMD attack was traced back to said country. Who would you think is going to get the blame. Do you think the world will point their finger at the UN for their failure or US for not getting the intelligence warning and preventing it.

  It's a no win scenario and for that I respect the President. He did it knowing that he will most likely not get re-elected no matter the outcome.

Regards
Wiz

P.S. I voted for the other guy  

 

Wiz33

  • Guest
Re: No letters from Philadelphia.
« Reply #7 on: April 02, 2003, 12:11:06 pm »
>>>>Shame to see that nobody seems to be studying history these days. Back in the days before the great nation that is USA existed, a bunch of farmers and settlers were running around trying to get their independence from the British. That the French intervened on their side and assisted them is one of the prime reasons why we have the US of A today. So WW2 is more like evening the score.<<<

  Are you trying to tell me that is not politically motivated and the French did it out of the goodess of their heart.  The French did that to curb the expansion of the British empire. Just remember that there is no charity in world politics. Evertthing is done for political gains.

Regards
Wiz  

Captain KoraH

  • Guest
Re: No letters from Philadelphia.
« Reply #8 on: April 02, 2003, 12:57:46 pm »
That seems perfectly sensible not to allow packages with no return address. One thing you could do is send a letter or a box and actually address it to someone you know who is really there, and include inside other letters to be delivered to troops without family. I personally know a few guys over in Afganistan, Iraq and Bosnia now. I send them correspondance through their family, and occasionally I include something to give to other guys who never get any mail.


Quote:

 Shame to see that nobody seems to be studying history these days.  




What's really a shame is to see that some people are too busy being concerned with their own beliefs to see the point. I am not concerned with politics, or history, or conspiracies, or reasons why we should invade or not invade. All that I am concerned about is the fighting men. Wars are not started by soldiers these days, but soldiers bear the burden of sacrifice for them. Regardless of your belief in the war or not, the bravery and sacrifice of the soldier must be appriciated. Perhaps you disagree with the employment of our troops this time around. That's not really the point. The point is that those men will stand up for you, and give everything: their freedom, their future, and their life for your freedom, your future, and your life. It's a shame to be ungrateful for that. Support our troops.  
« Last Edit: April 02, 2003, 01:04:48 pm by Captain KoraH »

StarTrekcaptain

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Re: No letters from Philadelphia.
« Reply #9 on: April 02, 2003, 02:14:58 pm »
From a British TA - I have friends out there - can we support all the troops not just the Americans but my friends too please.

Troma

  • Guest
Re: No letters from Philadelphia.
« Reply #10 on: April 02, 2003, 03:00:40 pm »
HERE! HERE! KoraH!

I agree totally. You don't have to agree with the war but those men and woman fighting in Iraq aren't the ones who started it and they deserve our support. They are all sons and daughters, some even mothers and fathers. So to say something like; "I wish for a million magadishus!" (spelling?) While these guys are out there fighting is not only insulting them but all those brave men who have gone before.  

Wiz33

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Re: No letters from Philadelphia.
« Reply #11 on: April 02, 2003, 03:49:48 pm »
KoraH:

  Sorry for getting off topic. Yes, No matter what we think of the policy. We should give our full support for our troops and those from countries that stands with us.

Regards
Wiz  

Credo Narth

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Re: No letters from Philadelphia.
« Reply #12 on: April 03, 2003, 09:20:35 am »
Quote:

 Shame to see that nobody seems to be studying history these days.  




What's really a shame is to see that some people are too busy being concerned with their own beliefs to see the point. I am not concerned with politics, or history, or conspiracies, or reasons why we should invade or not invade. All that I am concerned about is the fighting men. Wars are not started by soldiers these days, but soldiers bear the burden of sacrifice for them. Regardless of your belief in the war or not, the bravery and sacrifice of the soldier must be appriciated. Perhaps you disagree with the employment of our troops this time around. That's not really the point. The point is that those men will stand up for you, and give everything: their freedom, their future, and their life for your freedom, your future, and your life. It's a shame to be ungrateful for that. Support our troops.  




And it's more of a shame to see that you're going off half cocked, Korah. If you had bothered to read a little further, you might have spotted that I took great care to state that the troops were doing their duty and they should be proud of that.

If you really want to flame me, then make sure I'm not on your side first. Else you risk being labelled the dolt who killed his friends through friendly fire.

Captain KoraH

  • Guest
Re: No letters from Philadelphia.
« Reply #13 on: April 03, 2003, 11:01:16 pm »
Credo, .... oh never mind.  

jimmi7769

  • Guest
Re: No letters from Philadelphia.
« Reply #14 on: April 04, 2003, 08:56:50 am »
Quote:

From a British TA - I have friends out there - can we support all the troops not just the Americans but my friends too please.  




 This need not be said.

All of the troops involved in the liberation effort demand our honor and appreciation.

And if one doesn't agree with that then they truly are an honorless Petaq!!  
 

Mavolic

  • Guest
Re: No letters from Philadelphia.
« Reply #15 on: April 07, 2003, 06:29:12 am »
Quote:

Quote:

 Shame to see that nobody seems to be studying history these days.  




What's really a shame is to see that some people are too busy being concerned with their own beliefs to see the point. I am not concerned with politics, or history, or conspiracies, or reasons why we should invade or not invade. All that I am concerned about is the fighting men. Wars are not started by soldiers these days, but soldiers bear the burden of sacrifice for them. Regardless of your belief in the war or not, the bravery and sacrifice of the soldier must be appriciated. Perhaps you disagree with the employment of our troops this time around. That's not really the point. The point is that those men will stand up for you, and give everything: their freedom, their future, and their life for your freedom, your future, and your life. It's a shame to be ungrateful for that. Support our troops.  




And it's more of a shame to see that you're going off half cocked, Korah. If you had bothered to read a little further, you might have spotted that I took great care to state that the troops were doing their duty and they should be proud of that.

If you really want to flame me, then make sure I'm not on your side first. Else you risk being labelled the dolt who killed his friends through friendly fire.  





Well aren't we little jaded.

Oh yes, how the US forgets about France, and their "sacrafice' in the American Revolution.  As if you can even compare that with the liberation of the French people from the Germans that the was bought with American blood in WWII.  

Sorry ole' sport, the two don't even compare.  Besides the French at that time were still quite bitter at the British, so there it's not like they were helping the US out of the kindness of their heart either.  The colonist would of fought anyways, and as to who can say we would lost it in the end isn't a done deal.

Oh and as you pointed out, it was Japan who bombed us, not Germany.  We choose not just to contain our battle with the Japanese, and instead take our battle to Europe and fight the good fight over there and at the same time have to fight the tenacious Japanese.  It wasn't like Germany was in a position to invade the US.  

Early in the century, and especially after WWI, the US was trying to become more neutral on world affairs.  You may want to read over you history again, as the US wasn't the only country on the planet with that attitude, yet I don't see them getting chastised.  Maybe if those in Europe took a more pro-active stance against Germany, BEFORE they got powerful enough to attack all of Europe, WWII may have not happen.  Ahh but let's instead keep that old broken record as to the US not entering until Pearl Harbor got attacked two years after the war started.  

If you noticed, the US acted quite differently after that war.  Maybe because we learned a lesson from it.

As for "shady" deals with Saddam.  Guess what? most of Europe was pulling the same stunt.  But we are the only ones to blame?  If anything at least we changed our minds about Saddam and have actively tried to do something about, other than do alot of talking and no action, such as the UN.  It's nice to see those members getting deals on cheap Iraqi oil, and selling  them military equipment, even though that was clearly illegal to do under the cease-fire agreement and several UN sanctions.   But instead of focusing on that, let's point out something from past that isn't revelant to today.

You would have stronger points if it wasn't for the fact that it isn't anything the rest of the planet does.

But hey, we are the US, we have to be blamed for anything and everything.

Oh and speaking of the UN...

When have they ever been an efffective nation-builder?  I seem to recall their track record isn't the greatest.  The US however does have past success in doing just that.  Iraq doesn't need the UN to "prop" them up at this time.  And total control should be going to the Iraqi people before anyone else gets involved.  

Another thing...

Are you seriously thinking that Saddam is a stablizing force in the middle-east?  He harbors terroist, it's either that, or most of the news services have it completly wrong.  Try loooking at Iraq as a beginning.  We put the world's aggressors on notice after  9/11.  Sure I'm with you on the point of why didn't they take action before that, but that was then.  Much like Pearl Harbor and WWII,  9/11 also changed the perspective of the United States.

Oh but I forgot, it's all Bush's fault now isn't it?  He shall lead us to ruin.  

Well I guess only history well tell....
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------


Well anyways....

I do hope for a speedy conclusion to this current war.  My deep gratitude to all those in the military for their effforts.  That goes to ALL the collation forces.  

 

 

Vipy

  • Guest
Re: No letters from Philadelphia.
« Reply #16 on: April 07, 2003, 12:13:19 pm »
Actualy there are some Flaws in your post about WW 2, the US didnt choose to take the war to Europe they would have delayed that choise way longer if Hitler woudnt have declared war on the US. And please stop flaming those french look at your own mistakes before you point at others, youl'find you have alot more in common then you could ever imagine.

The US was basicly colonized out of European people so stop flaming those french!
after that The European companies imported Africans to work on the Crops and stuff as slave labor and those people evantualy grew to make up about i'd say 1/3rd of All American peeps.

anyway touching topic  

Vipy  

Captain KoraH

  • Guest
Re: No letters from Philadelphia.
« Reply #17 on: April 08, 2003, 12:46:13 pm »
Aww can't we at least have our one whipping boy?  If there's one thing the whole community can rally behind together as a single entity, it's our united distain of France. It's not like we dispise them for no reason,

FACTS

1. French polls show more French citizens want Saddam to win the war than America.

2. French activists defaced the graves of American and Brittish servicemen who gave their lives to free France from Hitler.

3. French president has tried to rally all to his cause, defaming the US for attacking Iraq, becomming our enemy by choice.


OPINION

4. France helped us become a nation IMHO, but I believe that bill was paid in full on D-Day. Result = we owe France nothing.


I cheered when I heard Congress wouldn't allow France a hand in post war Iraq. They want to make money from the blood of American troops. If France makes a dime from the democratic free economy of postwar Iraq, they will be able to thank the USA for it. Too bad France never seems to remember who their friends are. Maybe next time some country invades France America will say "War is immoral, we can't condone getting involved. Sorry France, we'd rather watch you die on CNN and toast your defeat with French wine we confiscated from Saddam Hussein."



Whoa, did that turn into a rant or what?




 

Captain KoraH

  • Guest
Re: No letters from Philadelphia.
« Reply #18 on: April 08, 2003, 12:49:42 pm »
In the interest of keeping this thread from becomming a flame war, I wish to publically retract everything I said about France. Sorry Frogs, I didn't mean it. Well, yes I did, but I take it back anyway.  

Mocton

  • Guest
Re: No letters from Philadelphia.
« Reply #19 on: April 09, 2003, 12:32:10 am »
Hmm I may be wrong but aren't the frechies the only one who actually paid back all the post ww2 loans no expert on history though