Topic: Okay, Okay, I'll stop Resisting  (Read 6042 times)

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theRomulan

  • Guest
Okay, Okay, I'll stop Resisting
« on: January 23, 2003, 09:36:11 am »
After a few weeks of sparse play on SFC3, and having played SFC2, I will have to finally give in and join the crowd that says SFC2 just seems to have more stuff going on.  

SFC3 is a great game, and I will continue to play it, but I often feel as if too many of those things that were in SFC2 got removed.  I know that SFC3 is a TNG based game, and as such it should not just be an SFC2 clone.  If Taldren had released a GAW right now, all the hardcore players would go "w00t" while the general consumer would say, "is this an add-on to the add-on"?  Technically, it would be, but I would still go out and buy that.  

I know that we replace ECM with angular velocity... good idea, except now, unless we're really close, getting your weapons fired off and hitting the target have been kind of streamlined.  I like how if someone is going fast and turning sharply close to target, that angular velocity goes way up.  IT kind of 'makes sense' to me that a ship going near lightspeed flies by my ship at close range, and I try to fire, but he kind of zips right out of the firing arc.  However, as soon as I'm in front of the guy, gone are the days where I manage my power not because I want to overload my weapons, but because I gotta break the guys ECM (I love flying races with photons or disruptors).  

I love the warp thing.  It's cool, except the fact that now the new players who decide that fighting for even five seconds is not worth their time can merely escape battle.  I like getting to places quickly, I like being able to "warp out", but I wish it were just a little easier to stop the warp craze, perhaps even limit just how often we hit the warp phase.  Maybe not.  

I loved six shield arcs.  I don't agree with the idea that four shield arcs is a newbie thing, that just makes it either easier to break shields or harder.  The way I see it, this system is just 'different'.  It is certainly easier to control, considering that the shields simply draw from other shields, you don't have to adjust the power, slow down any, or what not.  So yes, easier to reinforce, but in terms of how easy it is to keep good shields facing, etc., it's just different, not 'newbitized'.  

The invisible cloak is about the best thing that SFC3 has got going for it.  I think even SFC2 with all of it's set things would benefit greatly from having invisible cloak.  It adds a whole new atmosphere to the game.  I know some pro SFC2 guys use their SFB cloak alot and put it to good use, but I find that there are still a lot of SFC2 players that kind of ignore the cloak and go for running around with those super plasma ships... you know which ones i'm talking about.  

I like SFC3 with it's multivolley with officers, and yet I question how powerful weapons are in this game.  SFC2, I fired two photons, but if they both hit, I did something pretty serious to the shields.  Playing the game recently, I noticed that my two photons on my K'Tinga weren't really effective when I only fired two.  But if I multivolleyed, it was an improvement.  I don't like that.  

My bottom line is this:
SFC3's customization is great, something I've always wanted to do.  I understand that for a game that deviates from SFB would make it hard for developers to make us 180 brand new ships from scratch.  Before there was countless reference material, now there is none.  I don't need 180 ships. A dissappointment, sure, but I don't give a hooey.  However, I have found that I am sorely missing my six shields, my ecm/eccm, and the different weapons.  SFC3 is a great game still, but it seems like this game could become great if features from SFC2 were mashed right back in.  Fighters are sorely missed as well... forget that they don't work exactly to specification in SFC2 in some instances, I had great battles in my Kd7T against a Mirak light carrier.  That was one of the greatest battles of my life.  Of course, now I would love to be able to customize my Kd7T a little bit, like  I can in SFC3, but regardless, that battle was awesome.  Heck, I miss hearing people's best battle stories, I go start another thread.  

To finish what I was originally talking about, I say thumbs up to SFC3.  Taldren did an excellent job. I of course have a taste for a game that was a little more complicated on the power system stuff, etc.  SFC3 definitely is more streamlined and 'alpha strike' like compared to the previous games.  But while I don't like spending so much money on games, I'm going to keep SFC3 in the collection. I love the TNG era, and I love cloaking. I haven't even touched the feds in this game.  Cheers.  

D. Boon's Ghost

  • Guest
Re: Okay, Okay, I'll stop Resisting
« Reply #1 on: January 23, 2003, 10:53:58 am »
Excellent post!

So good, in fact, there is not much I can add - other than to say, 'Well Done'.    

FireSoul

  • Guest
Re: Okay, Okay, I'll stop Resisting
« Reply #2 on: January 23, 2003, 11:22:05 am »
*shrug* I still prefer SFB style..
.. that means no warping.. no angular velocity.. more ECM.. etc.

.. I mean, I bought this game BECAUSE it was based on SFB, not because it's StarTrek.

-- Luc
FireSoul

Whiplash

  • Guest
Re: Okay, Okay, I'll stop Resisting
« Reply #3 on: January 23, 2003, 04:09:05 pm »
Quite a good post, though I'll say I'm a bit of a purist. Lets keep an SFB-based game closely based on SFB, please. I'm not hardcore, meaning I recognize a need for deviation from the strictest SFB interpretation to accomodate playability and balance.

However, many of theRomulan's likes are things I like too. I don't mind at all if Taldren experiments with cool new ideas. But I want my SFB first, and I want the cool things kept away from the SFB game.

We really do actually need two games here. Maybe even a third where Taldren can show what they can do with a universe unvented from whole cloth. A P2P environment might even support such a thing.

W.
 

Vysander

  • Guest
Re: Okay, Okay, I'll stop Resisting
« Reply #4 on: January 23, 2003, 04:19:47 pm »
I like the ideas presented above, i'd love a more strategic game.

Son of Technobabble

  • Guest
Re: Okay, Okay, I'll stop Resisting
« Reply #5 on: January 23, 2003, 04:22:25 pm »
I agree with you in that some nice features from SFC2 should have not been removed, but I think that simplifying the power management part of the game adds a little fierceness to the battles. Furthermore, since ECM does no longer exist, and speed isn't dependant on how you distribute power anymore, there isn't a big need for a complex power management interface (I know I'm going to get myself killed by the GAW fans for this  ). SFC3 was never announced as a SFC2 expansion.

BTW nice review dude!    

Alidar Jarok

  • Guest
Re: Okay, Okay, I'll stop Resisting
« Reply #6 on: January 23, 2003, 05:23:51 pm »
Good review.

I agree with most of what you said, even though my first taste of SFB was from SFC2, and I thought most of that was stupid until I found these forums.

I've decided to re-post a thread I started awhile ago, that is similar to your topic.

As for many ship varieties, look at SFC2's ships.  The Federation have 8 hull designs that keep getting re-used with different configs, SFC3 has 9 Federation designs that you can re-use with different designs.  So they really aren't that different.  It adds an interesting design that works for this game, but might not work for SFC2.

Alidar Jarok

  • Guest
Here it is
« Reply #7 on: January 23, 2003, 09:42:24 pm »
Here's the Link, if you haven't found it yet.    

Cleaven

  • Guest
Re: Okay, Okay, I'll stop Resisting
« Reply #8 on: January 23, 2003, 10:30:22 pm »
Also:
Re-adding officers is good. It just needs a bit of tuning, because everybody and his dog is running around with a ship full of legendaries. (yes I know, if everybody in the dynaverse is Kirk, then it's okay for all the officers to be legendary).  

Corbomite

  • Guest
Re: Okay, Okay, I'll stop Resisting
« Reply #9 on: January 24, 2003, 12:42:49 am »
Quote:

Also:
Re-adding officers is good. It just needs a bit of tuning, because everybody and his dog is running around with a ship full of legendaries. (yes I know, if everybody in the dynaverse is Kirk, then it's okay for all the officers to be legendary).  





I think multiplayer officers is the worst part of SFC3. It was good in SFC1 for single player, but in multiplayer I just can't get over the feeling I'm just fighting the computer with the benefit of a human pilot. When that Legendary Weapons officer fires multiple torps at you it has nothing to do with the skill of your opponent, it's just the computer giving him/her a legal cheat to use.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 06:00:00 pm by Corbomite »

Whiplash

  • Guest
Re: Okay, Okay, I'll stop Resisting
« Reply #10 on: January 24, 2003, 06:55:07 am »
"legal cheat", eh?

I think you'll find many players don't understand/agree with that term.

But I agree with you.

W.
 

ActiveX

  • Guest
Re: Okay, Okay, I'll stop Resisting
« Reply #11 on: January 24, 2003, 07:00:45 am »
hmm...I view multivolley as something to look forward to when Im training green officers...

I think you should be rewarded when you get Legends in the Chair...  

theRomulan

  • Guest
Okay, Okay, I'll stop Resisting
« Reply #12 on: January 23, 2003, 09:36:11 am »
After a few weeks of sparse play on SFC3, and having played SFC2, I will have to finally give in and join the crowd that says SFC2 just seems to have more stuff going on.  

SFC3 is a great game, and I will continue to play it, but I often feel as if too many of those things that were in SFC2 got removed.  I know that SFC3 is a TNG based game, and as such it should not just be an SFC2 clone.  If Taldren had released a GAW right now, all the hardcore players would go "w00t" while the general consumer would say, "is this an add-on to the add-on"?  Technically, it would be, but I would still go out and buy that.  

I know that we replace ECM with angular velocity... good idea, except now, unless we're really close, getting your weapons fired off and hitting the target have been kind of streamlined.  I like how if someone is going fast and turning sharply close to target, that angular velocity goes way up.  IT kind of 'makes sense' to me that a ship going near lightspeed flies by my ship at close range, and I try to fire, but he kind of zips right out of the firing arc.  However, as soon as I'm in front of the guy, gone are the days where I manage my power not because I want to overload my weapons, but because I gotta break the guys ECM (I love flying races with photons or disruptors).  

I love the warp thing.  It's cool, except the fact that now the new players who decide that fighting for even five seconds is not worth their time can merely escape battle.  I like getting to places quickly, I like being able to "warp out", but I wish it were just a little easier to stop the warp craze, perhaps even limit just how often we hit the warp phase.  Maybe not.  

I loved six shield arcs.  I don't agree with the idea that four shield arcs is a newbie thing, that just makes it either easier to break shields or harder.  The way I see it, this system is just 'different'.  It is certainly easier to control, considering that the shields simply draw from other shields, you don't have to adjust the power, slow down any, or what not.  So yes, easier to reinforce, but in terms of how easy it is to keep good shields facing, etc., it's just different, not 'newbitized'.  

The invisible cloak is about the best thing that SFC3 has got going for it.  I think even SFC2 with all of it's set things would benefit greatly from having invisible cloak.  It adds a whole new atmosphere to the game.  I know some pro SFC2 guys use their SFB cloak alot and put it to good use, but I find that there are still a lot of SFC2 players that kind of ignore the cloak and go for running around with those super plasma ships... you know which ones i'm talking about.  

I like SFC3 with it's multivolley with officers, and yet I question how powerful weapons are in this game.  SFC2, I fired two photons, but if they both hit, I did something pretty serious to the shields.  Playing the game recently, I noticed that my two photons on my K'Tinga weren't really effective when I only fired two.  But if I multivolleyed, it was an improvement.  I don't like that.  

My bottom line is this:
SFC3's customization is great, something I've always wanted to do.  I understand that for a game that deviates from SFB would make it hard for developers to make us 180 brand new ships from scratch.  Before there was countless reference material, now there is none.  I don't need 180 ships. A dissappointment, sure, but I don't give a hooey.  However, I have found that I am sorely missing my six shields, my ecm/eccm, and the different weapons.  SFC3 is a great game still, but it seems like this game could become great if features from SFC2 were mashed right back in.  Fighters are sorely missed as well... forget that they don't work exactly to specification in SFC2 in some instances, I had great battles in my Kd7T against a Mirak light carrier.  That was one of the greatest battles of my life.  Of course, now I would love to be able to customize my Kd7T a little bit, like  I can in SFC3, but regardless, that battle was awesome.  Heck, I miss hearing people's best battle stories, I go start another thread.  

To finish what I was originally talking about, I say thumbs up to SFC3.  Taldren did an excellent job. I of course have a taste for a game that was a little more complicated on the power system stuff, etc.  SFC3 definitely is more streamlined and 'alpha strike' like compared to the previous games.  But while I don't like spending so much money on games, I'm going to keep SFC3 in the collection. I love the TNG era, and I love cloaking. I haven't even touched the feds in this game.  Cheers.  

D. Boon's Ghost

  • Guest
Re: Okay, Okay, I'll stop Resisting
« Reply #13 on: January 23, 2003, 10:53:58 am »
Excellent post!

So good, in fact, there is not much I can add - other than to say, 'Well Done'.    

FireSoul

  • Guest
Re: Okay, Okay, I'll stop Resisting
« Reply #14 on: January 23, 2003, 11:22:05 am »
*shrug* I still prefer SFB style..
.. that means no warping.. no angular velocity.. more ECM.. etc.

.. I mean, I bought this game BECAUSE it was based on SFB, not because it's StarTrek.

-- Luc
FireSoul

Whiplash

  • Guest
Re: Okay, Okay, I'll stop Resisting
« Reply #15 on: January 23, 2003, 04:09:05 pm »
Quite a good post, though I'll say I'm a bit of a purist. Lets keep an SFB-based game closely based on SFB, please. I'm not hardcore, meaning I recognize a need for deviation from the strictest SFB interpretation to accomodate playability and balance.

However, many of theRomulan's likes are things I like too. I don't mind at all if Taldren experiments with cool new ideas. But I want my SFB first, and I want the cool things kept away from the SFB game.

We really do actually need two games here. Maybe even a third where Taldren can show what they can do with a universe unvented from whole cloth. A P2P environment might even support such a thing.

W.
 

Vysander

  • Guest
Re: Okay, Okay, I'll stop Resisting
« Reply #16 on: January 23, 2003, 04:19:47 pm »
I like the ideas presented above, i'd love a more strategic game.

Son of Technobabble

  • Guest
Re: Okay, Okay, I'll stop Resisting
« Reply #17 on: January 23, 2003, 04:22:25 pm »
I agree with you in that some nice features from SFC2 should have not been removed, but I think that simplifying the power management part of the game adds a little fierceness to the battles. Furthermore, since ECM does no longer exist, and speed isn't dependant on how you distribute power anymore, there isn't a big need for a complex power management interface (I know I'm going to get myself killed by the GAW fans for this  ). SFC3 was never announced as a SFC2 expansion.

BTW nice review dude!    

Alidar Jarok

  • Guest
Re: Okay, Okay, I'll stop Resisting
« Reply #18 on: January 23, 2003, 05:23:51 pm »
Good review.

I agree with most of what you said, even though my first taste of SFB was from SFC2, and I thought most of that was stupid until I found these forums.

I've decided to re-post a thread I started awhile ago, that is similar to your topic.

As for many ship varieties, look at SFC2's ships.  The Federation have 8 hull designs that keep getting re-used with different configs, SFC3 has 9 Federation designs that you can re-use with different designs.  So they really aren't that different.  It adds an interesting design that works for this game, but might not work for SFC2.

Alidar Jarok

  • Guest
Here it is
« Reply #19 on: January 23, 2003, 09:42:24 pm »
Here's the Link, if you haven't found it yet.    

Cleaven

  • Guest
Re: Okay, Okay, I'll stop Resisting
« Reply #20 on: January 23, 2003, 10:30:22 pm »
Also:
Re-adding officers is good. It just needs a bit of tuning, because everybody and his dog is running around with a ship full of legendaries. (yes I know, if everybody in the dynaverse is Kirk, then it's okay for all the officers to be legendary).  

Corbomite

  • Guest
Re: Okay, Okay, I'll stop Resisting
« Reply #21 on: January 24, 2003, 12:42:49 am »
Quote:

Also:
Re-adding officers is good. It just needs a bit of tuning, because everybody and his dog is running around with a ship full of legendaries. (yes I know, if everybody in the dynaverse is Kirk, then it's okay for all the officers to be legendary).  





I think multiplayer officers is the worst part of SFC3. It was good in SFC1 for single player, but in multiplayer I just can't get over the feeling I'm just fighting the computer with the benefit of a human pilot. When that Legendary Weapons officer fires multiple torps at you it has nothing to do with the skill of your opponent, it's just the computer giving him/her a legal cheat to use.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 06:00:00 pm by Corbomite »

Whiplash

  • Guest
Re: Okay, Okay, I'll stop Resisting
« Reply #22 on: January 24, 2003, 06:55:07 am »
"legal cheat", eh?

I think you'll find many players don't understand/agree with that term.

But I agree with you.

W.
 

ActiveX

  • Guest
Re: Okay, Okay, I'll stop Resisting
« Reply #23 on: January 24, 2003, 07:00:45 am »
hmm...I view multivolley as something to look forward to when Im training green officers...

I think you should be rewarded when you get Legends in the Chair...