Topic: oh whyoh why is the raptor better than the warbird (Read 5674 times)

Hawkeye · « **on:** January 22, 2003, 08:46:03 pm »

i don't get it. why did this happen. just an observation but ...hmm.....the hardpoints just seem .....wrong

thoughts?

stoneyface out.

Tulmahk · « **Reply #1 on:** January 22, 2003, 09:32:53 pm »

Quote:

i don't get it. why did this happen. just an observation but ...hmm.....the hardpoints just seem .....wrong

thoughts?

This is a common misconception.

Post-patch, the Warbird will be just fine. The problem is, most people don't understand that the Warbird hates having a Warp X in it. Use the Warp IX instead, and spend the extra space on impulse and thrusters.

I regularly get my Warbirds to go 50 at full impulse. And if I run across a Sov that has a Warp X in it (unescorted), it's time for a snack, and my baby likes to eat.

FutureTem · « **Reply #2 on:** January 22, 2003, 09:34:54 pm »

Ive also noticed that the Raptor Class seems to be more powerful in its class than the Warbird is in his.

In fact, I rarely see Warbirds in PvP after all. Raptors are very common, and those who get more PP most of the time directly go up to a Scimitar or Valdore.

Tirus · « **Reply #3 on:** January 22, 2003, 09:38:33 pm »

I'm going to have to agree with Hawkeye on this one. I prefer the Raptor over the Warbird in PvP. This is a shame because the Warbird is (in this Rom's view) the finest looking ship out there.

Draco · « **Reply #4 on:** January 22, 2003, 10:15:35 pm »

It?s not about the ship, it?s about the owner. I don?t have my specs handy but I have been able to get the otherwise infamous Fek?lhr up to quite nice performance. All I can remember off hand is that it had 3 ion cannons on it, 2 forward, 1 aft. I think I have some type 3 disruptors on it, though I may have my configurations confused. It was also rather quick and maneuverable, though as I said I don?t have my specs handy right now.

And the moral of the story is?..if it doesn?t work, reconfig.

I?ll have to get back to you on a good way to put a Warbird together though. I'm sure I can find something.

762 · « **Reply #5 on:** January 23, 2003, 09:34:02 am »

Give up on Fed already Stoney?

Kortez · « **Reply #6 on:** January 23, 2003, 10:02:00 am »

The problem with the original Warbird is it is absurdly underpowered and underweaponed. A Fekhlr has more heavy hardpoints, I believe. I have to say it is a real real shame the Warbird was put out so patheticly underpowered in weaponry.

I think adding one more hardpoint is a bare beginning. It should have two more heavy hardpoints (check out the other dreads) and be given more mass so they can be used. The engine area needs more mass too.

I am very disppointed Taldren put it out this way. With the problems with the cloak I have to wonder why the game could not be balanced.

KBF-Dogmatix · « **Reply #7 on:** January 23, 2003, 10:24:42 am »

Brother Kortez speaks the truth. The question isn't whether or not one can tweak a warbird (or Fek'lhr, for that matter) to make it moderately less sucky. The question is...why is the Raptor superior in just about every way....and why is the warbird such a pile of junk vis a vis the other DNs in the game?

What improvements were made to the warbird in the patch? I keep seeing people allude to some changes, but I've never seen them spelled out.

jdmckinney · « **Reply #8 on:** January 23, 2003, 10:26:58 am »

I have to agree the Warbird was lacking at least a rear heavy hardpoint, maybe others, upon release. If we assume one or more hardpoints are added in a patch (and we know what happens when you ASSume), what do folks think of adding weapons mass?

First, look at the masses of the 3 core DNs: Sovereign, Negh'var, Warbird (Galaxy, Sphere Prime, Scimitar, and Cube are special cases). I -think- all three have the same weapon mass limit. So, if the Warbird were to receive extra mass, would that be fair to the other two races?

If anything, the Negh'var deserves the extra mass to make up for not having a 360-degree hardpoint. The trade-off is having to pay in warp energy to power any extra weapons. As for the Warbird, I could easily see a slight increase in weapons mass to allow for one more heavy to be mounted. Using the light plasma as that weapon, as the least massive heavy, would mean a 200 mass increase. Is that too much? Does it need any at all?

Regardless, I don't expect anything anyone suggests here will ever be implemented, but it would be very interesting to test such things with modded specs. If a benchmark were established, server admins could use it as a guide for their campaign spec lists to determine which, IF ANY, mass changes they would want to make.

jdmckinney · « **Reply #9 on:** January 24, 2003, 07:45:15 am »

OK, let's make this simpler. I'll start a poll thread on the Warbird.

Hawkeye · « **Reply #10 on:** January 22, 2003, 08:46:03 pm »

i don't get it. why did this happen. just an observation but ...hmm.....the hardpoints just seem .....wrong

thoughts?

stoneyface out.

FutureTem · « **Reply #12 on:** January 22, 2003, 09:34:54 pm »

Ive also noticed that the Raptor Class seems to be more powerful in its class than the Warbird is in his.

In fact, I rarely see Warbirds in PvP after all. Raptors are very common, and those who get more PP most of the time directly go up to a Scimitar or Valdore.

Tirus · « **Reply #13 on:** January 22, 2003, 09:38:33 pm »

I'm going to have to agree with Hawkeye on this one. I prefer the Raptor over the Warbird in PvP. This is a shame because the Warbird is (in this Rom's view) the finest looking ship out there.

Draco · « **Reply #14 on:** January 22, 2003, 10:15:35 pm »

It?s not about the ship, it?s about the owner. I don?t have my specs handy but I have been able to get the otherwise infamous Fek?lhr up to quite nice performance. All I can remember off hand is that it had 3 ion cannons on it, 2 forward, 1 aft. I think I have some type 3 disruptors on it, though I may have my configurations confused. It was also rather quick and maneuverable, though as I said I don?t have my specs handy right now.

And the moral of the story is?..if it doesn?t work, reconfig.

I?ll have to get back to you on a good way to put a Warbird together though. I'm sure I can find something.

762 · « **Reply #15 on:** January 23, 2003, 09:34:02 am »

Give up on Fed already Stoney?

Kortez · « **Reply #16 on:** January 23, 2003, 10:02:00 am »

The problem with the original Warbird is it is absurdly underpowered and underweaponed. A Fekhlr has more heavy hardpoints, I believe. I have to say it is a real real shame the Warbird was put out so patheticly underpowered in weaponry.

I think adding one more hardpoint is a bare beginning. It should have two more heavy hardpoints (check out the other dreads) and be given more mass so they can be used. The engine area needs more mass too.

I am very disppointed Taldren put it out this way. With the problems with the cloak I have to wonder why the game could not be balanced.

KBF-Dogmatix · « **Reply #17 on:** January 23, 2003, 10:24:42 am »

Brother Kortez speaks the truth. The question isn't whether or not one can tweak a warbird (or Fek'lhr, for that matter) to make it moderately less sucky. The question is...why is the Raptor superior in just about every way....and why is the warbird such a pile of junk vis a vis the other DNs in the game?

What improvements were made to the warbird in the patch? I keep seeing people allude to some changes, but I've never seen them spelled out.

jdmckinney · « **Reply #18 on:** January 23, 2003, 10:26:58 am »

I have to agree the Warbird was lacking at least a rear heavy hardpoint, maybe others, upon release. If we assume one or more hardpoints are added in a patch (and we know what happens when you ASSume), what do folks think of adding weapons mass?

First, look at the masses of the 3 core DNs: Sovereign, Negh'var, Warbird (Galaxy, Sphere Prime, Scimitar, and Cube are special cases). I -think- all three have the same weapon mass limit. So, if the Warbird were to receive extra mass, would that be fair to the other two races?

If anything, the Negh'var deserves the extra mass to make up for not having a 360-degree hardpoint. The trade-off is having to pay in warp energy to power any extra weapons. As for the Warbird, I could easily see a slight increase in weapons mass to allow for one more heavy to be mounted. Using the light plasma as that weapon, as the least massive heavy, would mean a 200 mass increase. Is that too much? Does it need any at all?

Regardless, I don't expect anything anyone suggests here will ever be implemented, but it would be very interesting to test such things with modded specs. If a benchmark were established, server admins could use it as a guide for their campaign spec lists to determine which, IF ANY, mass changes they would want to make.

jdmckinney · « **Reply #19 on:** January 24, 2003, 07:45:15 am »

OK, let's make this simpler. I'll start a poll thread on the Warbird.

News:

Topic: oh whyoh why is the raptor better than the warbird (Read 5674 times) var addthis_config = {"data_track_clickback":true};

Hawkeye

Tulmahk

FutureTem

Tirus

Draco

762

Kortez

KBF-Dogmatix

jdmckinney

jdmckinney

Hawkeye

Tulmahk

FutureTem

Tirus

Draco

762

Kortez

KBF-Dogmatix

jdmckinney

jdmckinney

Topic: oh whyoh why is the raptor better than the warbird (Read 5674 times)