Topic: Attention everyone  (Read 14999 times)

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Rob Cole

  • Guest
Re: Attention everyone
« Reply #80 on: March 28, 2003, 12:28:13 pm »
Well said Doggy!
I agree 100%

Hondo_8

  • Guest
Re: Attention everyone
« Reply #81 on: March 28, 2003, 01:33:53 pm »
The player base for EAW II and OP has shrunk, shrunk so much that running two campaigns will be impossable unless you enjoy playing with a three or four people. I do not think its nessary to establish some one to set up dates for campiagns. How many Campaigns can be run in a year now? One would think that the server hosts can co-operate among them selves to set up a campaign dates, to best utilize the player base.  

Karnak

  • Guest
Re: Attention everyone
« Reply #82 on: March 28, 2003, 01:48:03 pm »
Blade and Dogmatix,

I think we need to get to the nitty-gritty of what makes dynas tick and keeps the SFC game alive while most other games of SFC2 age are dead, dead.  Basically, it is the quality of mission script development and the continual production of new missions to keep player interest alive.  As someone who is going through the development process of missions scripts I can easily attest  it can take quite a lot of time.  I think that the less work placed on the admin shoulders about organizing server schedules the better.  It took Tracey, Dizzy and I about 2 days of discussion just to get the current EAW arrangement going.  I think all 3 of us did about 4 to 5 hours of chatting, PMing, etc. before we came to an agreement. Quite frankly this time could have been better spent working on mission scripts the better. It should not be forgotton that all this mission scripting time is done during liesure time so it is imperative to me, at least, to make that time as efficient as possible.  Right now, the community has less active mission scripters than fingers you can count on your hand and that includes those that work on SFC3 scripts.  That puts an immense amount of pressure of this "certifiable" band to keep things going all year around.  As we saw with AOTK, the loss of one mission scripter can have a very big impact on the implementation of a dyna.  So, if I can have someone I can tell when I want to put a dyna up and what my bottom-line needs are; and, then have that person go spend the next 4 to 5 hours work things out with the other server admins that will help a lot.  Cuz I rather be coding than chatting all night long with other admins about server launches which will definitely include some flame fests that I really don't enjoy after a while.

I am sure you will agree that everyone's affiliations with fleets and their respective RM/Admiral/Executive Poohbah status won't mean much if there are no good dynas around to play on with some decent missions.

And, I haven't even gotten into the contribution the model and shiplist modders make so races like the Tholians, Jem hadar, Cardies come alive in Dyna play.  And, of course, the campaign designers and server admins.   I am sure they don't want to be tied up in server scheduling chats forever either.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 06:00:00 pm by Karnak »

Dizzy

  • Guest
Re: Attention everyone
« Reply #83 on: March 28, 2003, 02:32:34 pm »
Quote:

  It took Tracey, Dizzy and I about 2 days of discussion just to get the current EAW arrangement going.  I think all 3 of us did about 4 to 5 hours of chatting, PMing, etc. before we came to an agreement.

  As we saw with AOTK, the loss of one mission scripter can have a very big impact on the implementation of a dyna.  So, if I can have someone I can tell when I want to put a dyna up and what my bottom-line needs are; and, then have that person go spend the next 4 to 5 hours work things out with the other server admins that will help a lot.  Cuz I rather be coding than chatting all night long with other admins about server launches which will definitely include some flame fests that I really don't enjoy after a while.

I am sure you will agree that everyone's affiliations with fleets and their respective RM/Admiral/Executive Poohbah status won't mean much if there are no good dynas around to play on with some decent missions.

And, I haven't even gotten into the contribution the model and shiplist modders make so races like the Tholians, Jem hadar, Cardies come alive in Dyna play.  And, of course, the campaign designers and server admins.   I am sure they don't want to be tied up in server scheduling chats forever either.




Hehe... dont forget the 2 hours of mud wrestling, Karnak... allthough that was kinda fun doing it with tracey... hehe.

 

KBF-Dogmatix

  • Guest
Re: Attention everyone
« Reply #84 on: March 28, 2003, 05:28:54 pm »
Well, that's all fine, Karnak...I can't really disagree with what you're saying.  I''m not sure how this response specifically addresses and/or illustrates the need for another whole administrative layer to handle something that really hasn't been that big of a problem in the past.  On top of that, I don't think I accept that (at least from my perspective as one who likes both OP and EAW) there is a workable solution that's going to work well for both sides of the fence, especially for the OP-playing minority.  There are going to likely be more EAW campaigns slated for launch than OP campaigns.  How long should the OP-only folks wait?  What do the EAW folks do when some OP campaign they couldn't care less about is active?


Regardless of the answers to these questions, I just don't think you need any one person or persons "in charge of" campaign scheduling.  The various admins can handle that on their own by using common sense and doing what they please.


If the sum total of the dyna admins feel this is necessary, then I guess they can put the thing together.  As the consumer/player, I'm not sure I'd like it very much, especially if I was in the OP-only or EAW-only camp.


This just kinda reminds me of that absurd "Judges" council CW/SFC2.NET put in place last year during 6.0 (Storm Season).  I though that was completely wack...heheh...


 

Cocomoe

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Re: Attention everyone
« Reply #85 on: March 28, 2003, 05:36:58 pm »
  Best compromise then is a gentleman's (Or woman's) agreement the admins agree on.  

 

FPF_TraceyG

  • Guest
Re: Attention everyone
« Reply #86 on: March 28, 2003, 06:12:33 pm »
Currently the poll stands at 22 to 11 in favor of an organised server schedule, however, after reading all of the interesting posts in this thread, to which I thank everyone, most thoughts on the matter appear to be somewhat to the contrary in one respect or another, which is a little confusing.
For example, lets suppose Admin Teams A,B,C and D are all working on server campiagns.
Admin Team A posts their server is going up on such and such a date. Admin Team B sees this and says, ok, will go after them. Admin Team B posts in a seperate thread that their server will go at such and such a date. Admin Team C (who didnt see either post), puts up a post saying their server will be during both A's and B's campaign, again, in another thread. Admin Team A contacts team C and respectfully asks them to change their server dates, because they are overlapping. Team C shifts their campaign to follow Team A's and makes a post. Team B then contacts Team C, as their server's now overlap. Team C is getting a little annoyed, but respectfully pushes back their server date.
Team D comes along and announces their campaign dates, they havent seen the other threads. What do you think is going to happen? Well, Teams A,B and C are all eventually going to have a dispute with Team D, who realising its going to be six months before running a campaign, decide to hell with it and put their server up anyway.As for the players, most of them are now confused as to what server is running is when.
This is just a hypothetical example of course, but is obviously, a  logical possibility given the current structure. Now, to leave things up to random chance and hope that all the cards should fall in order on the table, is somewhat optimistic in my view. These things simply don't order themselves, let alone in a fair and efficient way. In the above example, why should Team A go first? because they posted first? Team A could have been the last to start work on their server. Team A could post a year in advance of planning a server. What is wrong with the above picture? Is it the responsibility of every server admin team to go around contacting everyone else they know in order to get their 'approval' before putting up a campaign? What happens when Team E comes along and wants to put up a server? Do players have to scout and search through several websites, a dozen forums, and who knows how many posts trying to find a server schedule? How is a poor newbie player supposed to make sense of all this, who has no idea of even where to look?
It has been suggested that this style of self-management is all that is required. Perhaps this is so, and has worked in the past with a larger playerbase. It is not a democratic system, however, and is mediocre at best, imho. Let's give it another week and see what the poll results are then.
 

jdmckinney

  • Guest
Re: Attention everyone
« Reply #87 on: March 28, 2003, 07:48:24 pm »
I don't think people have a problem with tentative schedules being posted and maintained for players and admins to use as a reference and planning tool. However, putting someone "in charge" of scheduling and pressuring admins into not overlapping seems to be very unpopular. So, have the admins work out their schedules amongst each other and then have a central posting place (better yet, post these in multiple places).

Can-able

  • Guest
Re: Attention everyone
« Reply #88 on: March 28, 2003, 09:06:54 pm »
Quote:

Currently the poll stands at 22 to 11 in favor of an organised server schedule, however, after reading all of the interesting posts in this thread, to which I thank everyone, most thoughts on the matter appear to be somewhat to the contrary in one respect or another, which is a little confusing.
For example, lets suppose Admin Teams A,B,C and D are all working on server campiagns.
Admin Team A posts their server is going up on such and such a date. Admin Team B sees this and says, ok, will go after them. Admin Team B posts in a seperate thread that their server will go at such and such a date. Admin Team C (who didnt see either post), puts up a post saying their server will be during both A's and B's campaign, again, in another thread. Admin Team A contacts team C and respectfully asks them to change their server dates, because they are overlapping. Team C shifts their campaign to follow Team A's and makes a post. Team B then contacts Team C, as their server's now overlap. Team C is getting a little annoyed, but respectfully pushes back their server date.
Team D comes along and announces their campaign dates, they havent seen the other threads. What do you think is going to happen? Well, Teams A,B and C are all eventually going to have a dispute with Team D, who realising its going to be six months before running a campaign, decide to hell with it and put their server up anyway.As for the players, most of them are now confused as to what server is running is when.
This is just a hypothetical example of course, but is obviously, a  logical possibility given the current structure. Now, to leave things up to random chance and hope that all the cards should fall in order on the table, is somewhat optimistic in my view. These things simply don't order themselves, let alone in a fair and efficient way. In the above example, why should Team A go first? because they posted first? Team A could have been the last to start work on their server. Team A could post a year in advance of planning a server. What is wrong with the above picture? Is it the responsibility of every server admin team to go around contacting everyone else they know in order to get their 'approval' before putting up a campaign? What happens when Team E comes along and wants to put up a server? Do players have to scout and search through several websites, a dozen forums, and who knows how many posts trying to find a server schedule? How is a poor newbie player supposed to make sense of all this, who has no idea of even where to look?
It has been suggested that this style of self-management is all that is required. Perhaps this is so, and has worked in the past with a larger playerbase. It is not a democratic system, however, and is mediocre at best, imho. Let's give it another week and see what the poll results are then.
 




LOL

Just read you post Tracy and well i...I got a little confused Hehehehehe

Need to stop smokeing
   

Karnak

  • Guest
Re: Attention everyone
« Reply #89 on: March 28, 2003, 10:04:07 pm »
Quote:

Regardless of the answers to these questions, I just don't think you need any one person or persons "in charge of" campaign scheduling. The various admins can handle that on their own by using common sense and doing what they please.




I agree that the server co-ordinator should have no oversight power over the admins and definitely would never decide on which server would go first.  Really, what I am looking for is a neutral party to maintain a sticky thread at the top of this forum that gives the following info in the order server admins agreed upon in a gentle-beings agreement.  I guess, being a Frog, I should enjoy more mud wrestling with Tracey, Dizzy and the Miller lite kat-fight team , ahem...

1) Server Title and Launch date in YYYYMM[early | mid | late ]
2) Server  Description provided by admin. Keep it about 10 lines max.
3) Server status (ie.  Almost there,  In beta test, pre-production, Don't ask too many serious questions yet, it's in pieces, it's in my head, what's a Dyna server kit?, etc.)

I would say participation in this thread is strictly voluntary.  The main idea is that the whole community gets an idea of what servers are upcoming and anyone, not involved in the schedule, thinking of running a  campaign can make a well-informed decision about when to launch.

   
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 06:00:00 pm by Karnak »

FPF_TraceyG

  • Guest
Re: Attention everyone
« Reply #90 on: March 28, 2003, 11:29:27 pm »
Can I please refer people back to my very first post in this thread. No one is in charge, there is no ruling body, no one is being told what to do, admins still set their own server schedules. The coordinator is responsible for maintaining the schedule, keeping both players and admins informed of that schedule, and attempting to act as mediator where disputes should arise. I would like to think that there wouldn't be any disputes, that being the case, then all that person has to do is be the messenger. Think of it a TV guide, do you have to go looking in different magazines for fifferent television station guides? No. Also, the greater degree of communication between admins, I think, will have other benefits, such as helping out with each others servers and campaigns in whatever we can, fostering comraderie between associated teams rather than an aire of competitiveness. Perhaps this is just too much of a female touch for the rest of you, but, honestly, I cannot see one good reason why not to take such an approach. Servers admins are not 'restricted' by the schedule, if they choose, they 'could' still ignore it, but as has been said numerous times, everyone seems willing to cooperate to cooperate. As for variety, I think we can create a schedule that offers just that, running campaigns all the time in EAW and OP, I see no reason why we can't have several 'minor' campaign running all the time arenas. The 'compromise' required is really only in regard to 'big' servers that are going to adversely effect each other. All the issues raised so far, I think, can be addressed, bar one, which Dogmatix raised, that being the extra administrative overhead. Hence the need for someone to act in the role of coordinator. They are not, and I state it again, a 'boss' who tells people what to do. I don't know where people seem to have gotten that impression.

Kroma_BaSyl

  • Guest
Re: Attention everyone
« Reply #91 on: March 29, 2003, 09:04:51 am »
Quote:

They are not, and I state it again, a 'boss' who tells people what to do. I don't know where people seem to have gotten that impression.



I know! It's those leftist anti-war peaceniks that just can't stand seeing the US take charge and...........ummmm.....is this the OT forum?