Topic: Attention everyone (Read 15028 times)

CptCastrin · « **Reply #60 on:** March 27, 2003, 08:50:12 pm »

Quote:

AND WHY IS EAW and OP CONTINUED to be mentioend together? OP is a separate game (pity) but IT IS. So let OP server do their own thing. Considering the populations do not completely overlap. (as ztempest points out)

Because though they don't overlap completely they DO overlap. To not consider the shared player base is to invite disagreements that are not helpful to anyone.

At the least in the case EaW and OP consideration between campaign runs should be taken into account. Only in this repect are they considered togeather, because of the players.

Dizzy · « **Reply #62 on:** March 27, 2003, 10:45:48 pm »

Well, its about player numbers. And if a server overlaps then one server loses player numbers.

Basically it amounts to this... Players play the server thats up. If there are more than one server playing, then those players that would have been on only one server now divy up between the two and there would be a noticeable drop in player numbers.

Edit: I also understand the preference of a particular player wanting a particular campaign. If we end up with 4x servers running to accomodate 4x different groups of players, then thats fine, but in doing so, you surely eliminate the BIG ONE. Large servers would be doomed to die in this enviornment with a reduced playerbase like the one we have here and this is my argument.

The next 3x servers, SG3, ISC Inv., and RDSL are all BIG servers.

So, how to solve this dilema...

DONOTDELETE · « **Reply #63 on:** March 28, 2003, 12:30:00 am »

I would like to remind you all few things....

That not everyone plays every server....

There are people who own OP that dont have EAW...and vice versa....

Limited playing options and excessive downloads put people off who would otherwise play.....

We need all the players we can get....

Capt Jeff · « **Reply #64 on:** March 28, 2003, 06:40:00 am »

Boy oh boy.....why such arguing?

Just some thoughts here in no specific order so excuse me if it doesn't make perfect sense...

Plain and simple fact.....Fans of OP have a new patch and are excited, why not let them put something up right now?

Sounds like people are concerned with player numbers and such if a OP and EAW campaign were to run at the same time.....why? As some have already said, some players have only one or the other games. Making said players wait for a campaign is silly. The way to keep a good player base is to keep them happy and interested. Making a OP player wait a month or more until a EAW campaign is finished is no way to keep that person interested, and they will wander off, maybe to never return. Can we afford this? 60ish player limits on a server because of stability problems is another. Remember the complaints some had about SFC2.NET when in the evening they could not log in becuase the server was full? Not fun. How about the crashes or other problems when a server gets close to max players. Why go through that? A good campaign running on EAW and OP at the same time would seem to solve those problems. Also, the fact that not every server meets everyone's needs. I may not like the setup of the EAW campaign, so I go to the OP one.

So to sum this whole paragraph up.....One good campaign running each game at the same time doesn't seem to be a problem as far as I'm concerned. It offers better stability for each server. A chance for the admins to try wild ideas knowing players can have fun somewhere else if they choose. A CHOICE for a lot of people who may not like certain set ups. And most importantly. A place to go for all players to play something meaningful so they stay interested in SFC.

And beyond all that...No one has mentioned the fact that 2 different admin teams could get together and have a joint campaign with a server from OP and EAW where players on both servers have to work together for victory. Sounds fun to me

LongTooth · « **Reply #65 on:** March 28, 2003, 07:02:46 am »

Well not read the whole of the thread
But I will say that once the d2 for OP is fixed I will spend most of my time there for me its the better game

jdmckinney · « **Reply #69 on:** March 28, 2003, 07:52:24 am »

Dizzy, I'm curious if you've looked into running SG3 on OP. You mentioned it, but I haven't noticed you say one way or the other. Obviously there are OP players out there who want a campaign. If you don't think you're going to use OP, then please say so to give other people a chance to get something up that won't conflict with SG3. If you are going to use OP, then let's get the word out and round up the players to rally behind it.

Have you tested the new OP kit to see if the D2 will work? It seems you are certain it won't, but it sounds like your opinion is based on old facts, not new ones. Maybe OP D2 won't work for SG3, but SOMEONE needs to try a campaign there to find out.

Dizzy · « **Reply #70 on:** March 28, 2003, 08:12:18 am »

I agree JD. Someone needs to try a campaign to see how well the GSA patch works in the unpatched D2 enviornment.

Question: Are you going to host a BIG server on OP before all the bugs are worked out? That would kinda ruin the campaign dont you think?

I'm not going to. I've already talkied with my team and made a decision on finding out the problem with the DV hexes. So here's the dea:

IF and thats a big if, the DV hexes are made to be workable, that means going up and down, in neutral Pirate space, then SG3 will go OP.

Tracey has been testing missions on the new server kit. So far its not working.

Now JD, heres my problem... Imagine you take over an enemy hex. If you cant reinforce that DV hex, then its gonna stay at 'flipped' status (whatever DV the server is set to change to when a hex flips) unless you log off, log on as a Pirate (assuming that the Pirate owns that hex) and then reinforce it that way. Of course this is silly, so on the past SG server, we had a NO HEX SNIPE rule. That rule meant that if you see a player work down a hex, you cant jump into the hex when its neutral and flip it ahead of the player that spent hours taking it down. The hex snipe issue was important because only due to a flip is a hex gonna get a good DV value.

so for those who dont know, basically, you go thru enemy space, work down a DV to 0 and then once its flippid, it jumps up to whatever % of its original value. But if someone of the other team flips it 1st, then you spent all your time running missions to take it down only to have the other team spend one mission to undo everything you have done.

RT3 had a hex snipe rule if I am not mistaken.

This simply isnt the way to run a server. The hex snipe issue is just too ridiculous to deal with. EAW works just fine. And OP should work like EAW. In EAW, you work a hex down to 0 and have to run missions to reinforce it up. OP you run ONE mission and it goes all the way up. Not fair imo.

Now like I have always been saying all along, if this DV issue is cleared up in OP, then thats where SG3 will be. That means all missions must work in neutral Pirate space to make the DV go up and down like it should.

If Tracey cant get it fixed, then SG3 will stay EAW side and you and your SFCX group can try to work it out.

Honestly, JD, I really hope OP DV gets fixed. OP has a lot that would work better for it if it did. But right now, that DV problem kills it. We will see. Till then, go ahead and run Badlands. Its a fun server. See what missions will work on it. I support that 100%. And maybe you can come up with a solution Tracey misses. If so, lets do SG3 on OP. Otherwise, please dont run a big server over top mine if that DV doesnt work... Just host them fun servers and keep tinkering with the missions and neutral pirate space till either you just cant fix it until the OP D2 patch comes out, or you have a reasonable number of missions that make it workable.

I can hold off dev onb SG3 for about another week. Then I have to make a decision on choosing one or the other. So we will see...

jdmckinney · « **Reply #71 on:** March 28, 2003, 08:20:43 am »

This sounds like a good plan so far. It only makes sense to run a deep tactical campaign if you can boost DVs properly. We're hoping to get a lot of people on Badlands tonight and this weekend to find out just what does and doesn't work with defense boosting.

I encourage anyone with OP 2.5.3.8, FireSoul's OP Plus Shiplist, and the latest Evil Dave OP missions to spend some time there helping to find out what OP D2 can handle. Spread the word to your friends. If we find out what's broken, the testers scan report back to Dave Farrell in hopes of getting fixes in a future patch. If we find out what works, we can determine what sorts of campaigns OP can handle under the current version.

jdmckinney · « **Reply #72 on:** March 28, 2003, 08:27:20 am »

One more thing:

To anyone testing DV boosting and mission results in general on OP, TRY AS MANY DIFFERENT MISSIONS AS POSSIBLE. Try as many different hex ownership variables, player vs. AI and player vs. player ally/enemy combinations, and even forfeits and self-destructions as possible to get a good read on what happens in a variety of circumstances.

In other words, a patrol against non-cartel neutral Orion AIs may have one effect (or none), but that may be a totally different result than a patrol against an enemy empire player, or a shipyard assault/defense, or a data recovery, etc. Finding two missions that don't work doesn't mean the whole thing is bad -- it just means admins have to use missions that work. If we don't have enough that work, then it's back to the drawing board.

Dizzy · « **Reply #73 on:** March 28, 2003, 09:06:31 am »

Post another thread with the dl links. I'll be there tonight

All we really need to do is get a reasonable number of missions that boost a DV anywhere on the map. Say 75% or 3 out of 4 missions. If that many work, I can live with that...

Oh, and are thew Pirate layers gonna be all neutral hexes? Seems that that would make it wasier to test, as we know you have to otherwise have pirate cartel ownership...

Lets see what we can do.

Oh, and I'd like to put Firesoul's tugs in SG3. OK with you and firesoul? I think a big server like SG3 would be a good place to start introducing them...

jdmckinney · « **Reply #74 on:** March 28, 2003, 09:19:45 am »

Diz, I believe the SFCX.org OP downloads section has all the files needed. As for cartel layout, my guess is the map has a little of everything. If we find tonight we need more of certain layouts, maybe we can make a map for a test server that is blanketed with cartel neutral hexes. I haven't been on Badlands yet, thanks to work-related travel. I'll be on tonight, and should have server remote access in case Castrin isn't at home to monitor it.

I've asked Castrin to post a Badlands invitation for fun and testing open to all, and to keep Badlands up throughout the weekend. Hopefully he'll be able to accomodate us.

SFCX's OP downloads page

FireSoul and Dave W. can provide alternate links if these don't work for some reason. I'll doublecheck with Castrin that the downloads page includes the latest ED missions.

CaptStumpy · « **Reply #75 on:** March 28, 2003, 09:21:24 am »

(*clap*clap*clap) Now that's more like it.

Ow, that makes my head hurt...remind me never to mix S'mores and Scotch...yuk

Seriously, Dizzy, there is no large scale, big campaign server from us in the works right now (unless someone has their own super secret project) and Reclamation is looking like it is going to be a small map, short run, limited VC, non-conquest oriented server. Just a guess, but SG3 should be way over before we could get up anything more serious than that. Unless you were way delayed I doubt any conflict exists.

jdmckinney · « **Reply #76 on:** March 28, 2003, 09:31:12 am »

More OP+ and ED links:

OP Plus Shiplist: http://klingon.stasis.ca/OP_plusrefit/op_plusrefit_shiplist-20030320.zip

Evil Dave OP Mission Pack: http://www.sfcx.org/downloads/mirrors/NuclearWessels/OPMissions.zip

I think these would be the absolute latest, just in case SFCX links are behind (though I think they are current).

jdmckinney · « **Reply #78 on:** March 28, 2003, 10:39:32 am »

It's long been a dream among the community to have a cross-platform campaign. Until now, OP really hasn't been up to snuff to seriously think about it. I'm hoping it becomes possible soon.

KBF-Dogmatix · « **Reply #79 on:** March 28, 2003, 11:34:40 am »

Personally, I don't feel this new "position" is necessary. In fact, to me, it borders precariously on the absurd. Heaping another layer of adminstration on this process is not optimal, in my humble opinion.

Server overlap has only been a minor problem in the past. The extent to which it was a problem was due in part to an already decent level of dialogue between the various server admins as well as the wishes of each admin to not put their hard work up for play at the same time everyone is already engaged elsewhere.

Working on building a campaign "queue" is fine. That works...IF you're talking about either OP or EAW servers. You can't talk about both when there's a long list of proposed campaigns and a significant number of people who only own OP or EAW, but not both. In addition, there are, of course, those that own both but prefer one or the other and won't cross over.

It hardly seems far to me that those that want to play in or run a serious OP campaign have to wait weeks and weeks just because there's an EAW campaign going. If they do wish to, then that's up to them. It shouldn't be forced on them by any sort of schedule.

SFC2 has a significantly degraded player base and I think OPs reamining player base is even smaller than that of EAW. It seems fairly likely that two major campaigns cannot really exist at the same time, even if one if on OP and one is on EAW, though this situation is preferable to having two major OP or two major EAW campaigns going at the same time. However, I believe we should let the players vote on which server they want at a given time with their actual playing time. If a server sucks, people won't play on it. By the same token, maybe they shouldn't be limited to playing on a server just because it's the only game in town. I like the idea of having at least one decent OP and EAW server going most of the time.

Again...I see the wisdom and workability of queing up OP servers in one que and EAW servers in another, especially if all the server admin parties agree to do so. We've already seen that work on the EAW side. I just don't think you can mix the games in the list because you're going to be leaving one group out in the cold. Whether we like it or not, OP and EAW are seperate game, for most intents and purposes.

News:

Topic: Attention everyone (Read 15028 times) var addthis_config = {"data_track_clickback":true};

CptCastrin

3dot14

Dizzy

**DONOTDELETE**

Capt Jeff

LongTooth

Cleaven

Capt Jeff

Dizzy

jdmckinney

Dizzy

jdmckinney

jdmckinney

Dizzy

jdmckinney

CaptStumpy

jdmckinney

FPF_TraceyG

jdmckinney

KBF-Dogmatix

Topic: Attention everyone (Read 15028 times)

DONOTDELETE