Topic: Attention Modders (PF for all races question)

[DH123]

I've been screwing around with a shiplist in OP and I have PFs working for Klingons in both Single-player skirmish and Campaign.  Got 2 questions for all of you out there:

1.  What field in the shiplist controls the ship model size?
2.  In order to give that Klinks PFs, I had to add the PFs and the Tenders to the Gorn.  How can I prevent these ships from showing up as Gorn AI o ri nthe Gorn Shipyard?  

[Scipio_66]

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I've been screwing around with a shiplist in OP and I have PFs working for Klingons in both Single-player skirmish and Campaign.  Got 2 questions for all of you out there:

1.  What field in the shiplist controls the ship model size?
2.  In order to give that Klinks PFs, I had to add the PFs and the Tenders to the Gorn.  How can I prevent these ships from showing up as Gorn AI o ri nthe Gorn Shipyard?  

Change their hull class to SPECIAL in the Gorn list.  Leave them as WAR_DESTROYER (or whatever) in the Klink list.

-S'Cipio

[DH123]

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I've been screwing around with a shiplist in OP and I have PFs working for Klingons in both Single-player skirmish and Campaign.  Got 2 questions for all of you out there:

1.  What field in the shiplist controls the ship model size?
2.  In order to give that Klinks PFs, I had to add the PFs and the Tenders to the Gorn.  How can I prevent these ships from showing up as Gorn AI o ri nthe Gorn Shipyard?  

Change their hull class to SPECIAL in the Gorn list.  Leave them as WAR_DESTROYER (or whatever) in the Klink list.

-S'Cipio  

And that's all that needs to be done for it to work now?  Something must have changed through the patches because this did NOT work a year ago.

OP has the OrionTigerHeart Cartel which is a PF race.  If you copy their ships in notepad and paste them to the top of the shiplist, the can easily be used as a PF "donor" for all races including the Federation.    

So I guess all races can have PFs in OP now . . . .  Hmmm.   Does DV work right after the patch?  

[Kroma_BaSyl]

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So I guess all races can have PFs in OP now . . . .  Hmmm.   Does DV work right after the patch?  

Well except for the Federation, because they never actually built any ;-)

Seriously though, way cool, I would love to see a PF fest CJ or otherwise.

[Scipio_66]

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And that's all that needs to be done for it to work now?  Something must have changed through the patches because this did NOT work a year ago.

OP has the OrionTigerHeart Cartel which is a PF race.  If you copy their ships in notepad and paste them to the top of the shiplist, the can easily be used as a PF "donor" for all races including the Federation.    

So I guess all races can have PFs in OP now . . . .  Hmmm.   Does DV work right after the patch?  

I should caveat my comment by saying that is what works(ed) for EAW servers under patches 2033 last year and now 2036.  There is always a chance the OP server may prove different.

Test the bit about pasting Cartel ships to the top of the list.  I swear I used to be able to paste ships all over the shiplist in EAW.  Now the server kit seems to scream bloody murder if a race appears out of order of RaceEnum, or if a race's ships don't all appear together in a block.  (Oddly enough, skirmish mode still doesn't care).  This is why I had to use the Lyran interface for the Feds in DOE to get drogues for them.  Since Feds appear first in the list, and donor ships have to appear before donated ships, I couldn't get anyone to donate PF's to the Feds.  On a historical note, this "works", as the Federation was the only race never to build a PF.

Good luck!  The server kit can be a tempermental beast, but if you kick it long enough I'm sure you'll get things to work the way you want.

-S'Cipio

[DH123]

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So I guess all races can have PFs in OP now . . . .  Hmmm.   Does DV work right after the patch?  

Well except for the Federation, because they never actually built any ;-)

Seriously though, way cool, I would love to see a PF fest CJ or otherwise.  

Actually, in EAW I'm not sure if this could be done because of the lack of a donor Cartel.   This would be doable with a Combined shiplist.  The Fed PFs kinda suck anyway because the AI is very stupid with Photons.  Klink G1s are just plain evil though!!

Though I would not want to see a PF fest  , it would be nice to get a mod working with all races having fighters and PFs.  It ain't cheese if its even . . .  

 

[jimmi7769]

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So I guess all races can have PFs in OP now . . . .  Hmmm.   Does DV work right after the patch?  

Well except for the Federation, because they never actually built any ;-)

Seriously though, way cool, I would love to see a PF fest CJ or otherwise.  

And the only Battleships were B10's but I think I've seen plenty of other BB's out there.     ;-)

[**DONOTDELETE**]

More toys are allways appreciated

[Kroma_BaSyl]

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It ain't cheese if its even . . .

I'm going to frame that ;-)

Here I alway thought your stance on cheese was that the escalation in uber ships made servers unfun for those that preferred the line ships (which while I don't agree with, I understand), but what you have really been on about is some ideal of unattainable 'balance'. From now on whenever I see you mention "cheese" I will mentally subsitute the phrase "quit screwing the Feds".

Kroma,

PS, Just hanking your chain DH, as I really hope this can be worked out. I love cheese, so long as it doesn't come from France ;-) If you need any help testing any of these things out let me know.

[DH123]

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It ain't cheese if its even . . .

I'm going to frame that ;-)

Here I alway thought your stance on cheese was that the escalation in uber ships made servers unfun for those that preferred the line ships (which while I don't agree with, I understand), but what you have really been on about is some ideal of unattainable 'balance'. From now on whenever I see you mention "cheese" I will mentally subsitute the phrase "quit screwing the Feds".

Kroma,

PS, Just hanking your chain DH, as I really hope this can be worked out. I love cheese, so long as it doesn't come from France ;-) If you need any help testing any of these things out let me know.  

My problem with" cheese" is a ship creates a bad imbalance in it's class.  For example, I do not comsider the R-KDP to be a cheese ship because though it has PFs (which I have not problem with) line ships of it's era exist that can fight it fairly.  Heck,  a CLC can chase one off the map.  

My biggest issue with AOTK was that DNs were restricted yet our 2 neighboring enemies (Romulans and Gorns) both got BCH ships in 2277 with 4 PFs.  To fight a BCHV in 2277 with fair footing you either needed a DN or a fleet on the Fed side.  I considered it "cheese" because it was not even close to fair.  I beleive that all races should be as balanced as possible in a class per class basis for PvP.  Had the G-BCHV and the R-THV come out with F-BCV in 2283 (and they had 2 PFs) this would not have been cheesy at all because PvP balance would not have been affected by these ships (I do not buy the arguement that BCH ships should be able to flip hexes fast.  If you need to flip hexes fast, buy a cheap POS like the rest of us  ).  The F-CCR was a cheese ship for this same reason because the Klingons did not have anything that could touch it during it's 5-year run.  

I like Herr Burt's idea of including the BPV of the support craft in the ship's BPV.   Long time comming on that one.

Just screwing around I put 4 Klingon "G1" PFs (loosley translated  ) on a C7 and took it on in an F-DNH.  Against the AI, I almost lost!  PFs really like using Dizzies and drones!  Photon-Based Federation PFs and next to useless, the AI is just too fricking stupid when it comes to Photons.    Maybe Phaser/Drone varients won't be quiet as useless . . .

Made some "Real" stingers with 4 Fighter Fusions to emulate the 2 full strength ones from SFB.  OMG do they light up a D7C nice an crispy!  Now if only they'd actually fire on the first pass . . .
   

[Kroma_BaSyl]

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My problem with" cheese" is a ship creates a bad imbalance in it's class.  For example, I do not comsider the R-KDP to be a cheese ship because though it has PFs (which I have not problem with) line ships of it's era exist that can fight it fairly.  Heck,  a CLC can chase one off the map.  

My biggest issue with AOTK was that DNs were restricted yet our 2 neighboring enemies (Romulans and Gorns) both got BCH ships in 2277 with 4 PFs.  To fight a BCHV in 2277 with fair footing you either needed a DN or a fleet on the Fed side.  I considered it "cheese" because it was not even close to fair.  I beleive that all races should be as balanced as possible in a class per class basis for PvP.  Had the G-BCHV and the R-THV come out with F-BCV in 2283 (and they had 2 PFs) this would not have been cheesy at all because PvP balance would not have been affected by these ships (I do not buy the arguement that BCH ships should be able to flip hexes fast.  If you need to flip hexes fast, buy a cheap POS like the rest of us  ).  The F-CCR was a cheese ship for this same reason because the Klingons did not have anything that could touch it during it's 5-year run.  

Agree to a point, not familar enough with the F-BCV to know if a G-BCHV with 2 or 4 PFs is a comparable match or not.

I do like the ebb and flow of tech though and believe that there should be times where one race or side has an advantage over the other, but it shouldn't last more than a day or two (real time) before it swings in the other direction.

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I like Herr Burt's idea of including the BPV of the support craft in the ship's BPV.   Long time comming on that one.

Amen brother. I also would like to see this kind of approach to drone loadouts. The BVP should additionally be increased each era as the better drones come out
 

[SPQR Renegade001]

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1.  What field in the shiplist controls the ship model size?

The display size for a model is controled by ../assets/models/models.siz. Your PFs will need a new entry to the file, and that file put in with your downloads. Thu11s has a nice model for the Thunderbolt, if your looking for one. If you want to avoid a model d/l, the F-FF looks good when scaled down to PF size too.

One problem for the "PF for all," is that Taldren code only fast loads the dizzies (yiippe) and plasmas. For photons, fusions, helbores, and PPD (it's not cheese if it's fair :P ) you need to launch early and wait like us plasma dogs used to do.

When I was playing with the PFs, I was able to make some evil Thunderbolts, (2 Phot FA, 1 Dro-A, 3 Ph-1 RS/FH/LS, 2 Ph-3 RS/LS). Set on harass, they'd stay at range and drop proxies on you. Set to attack, they'd close the range and pick you apart with the phasers while chucking drones at you. They weren't as fast at the kill as the Rom and Gorn PFs, but you can't just run from them, and with their Feddie phaser arcs they were better at drone defence.