Topic: What is the reduction in damage of Ion Canon?

[Firestorm]

The damage for the Ion Canon is 14, but I assume that is at very close range.  What is the maximum amount of loss, or what is the least amount of damage the Ion Canon will do at its maximum distance???

[Aenigma]

I can't give you the exact numbers, but i think they are going to degrade the range, but make it more powerful in the patch. Right now, an ion cannon at blank range appears not to do even as much damage as a pulse phaser, which is strange considering a ion cannon to be a heavy weapon, while the pulse phaser isn't. Or so recent Tal-Shiar reports confirm

Aenigma
In The Service of The Empire,
captaining the Warbird  RIS Sol Opacus    

[Cmdr. Krotz]

Quote:
The damage for the Ion Canon is 14, but I assume that is at very close range.  What is the maximum amount of loss, or what is the least amount of damage the Ion Canon will do at its maximum distance???  

Er, 14 damage is for the improved (v.101 beta) ion, nobody's done systematic tests on it yet, and there was never much posted on the old version either (no decay rates anyways); my own experience with it has been that it's too inaccurate at extreme range for me to have much of a sense of it's long range capabilities, but as a beam weapon, it's probably not hot. The decay rates generally work in such a way that their (beam weapons') damage potential approaches zero at their maximum range limit; beam weapons (at least the primaries do) also seem to have an optimal firing range, usually from 0 to 5 (or 0 to 10 in the case of the smallest phasers/disruptors), within which beams do their full damage...so to figure out how much damage you will do at a given range, it would probably work to assume that the optimal range is 5, it does 0 damage at the limit of its range (about 25-28, it was reduced from the old ion cannon's range), for a decay rate of around 4.5-5% past range 5 (that's assuming it follows the established paradigm of other beams)...keep in mind this is all just an educated guess though.  

[Son of Technobabble]

Yep... It's a shame it's so underpowered, being as is so much like the good ol' fusion...

[KBF-Dogmatix]

Quote:
I can't give you the exact numbers, but i think they are going to degrade the range, but make it more powerful in the patch. Right now, an ion cannon at blank range appears not to do even as much damage as a pulse phaser, which is strange considering a ion cannon to be a heavy weapon, while the pulse phaser isn't. Or so recent Tal-Shiar reports confirm

Aenigma
In The Service of The Empire,
captaining the Warbird  RIS Sol Opacus    

Heh...I shouldn't be surprised that the pulse phaser is fine and the ion cannon is broken.  One weapon is the sole possession of the Federation and the other is a weapon for a non-Fed race.  There's two kinds of races in SFC3.  Fed and non-Fed.  Fed stuff works great.  Non-Fed stuff is broken.  



 

[Cmdr. Krotz]

Quote:

Heh...I shouldn't be surprised that the pulse phaser is fine and the ion cannon is broken.  One weapon is the sole possession of the Federation and the other is a weapon for a non-Fed race.  There's two kinds of races in SFC3.  Fed and non-Fed.  Fed stuff works great.  Non-Fed stuff is broken.  



 

While the words of a Klingon-turned-Romulan-sympathizer may not carry much weight with you, here's some food for thought.....

On the matter of the ion cannon, the beta patch bumped it up over 50% in damage, from 9 to 14 damage- while it does not have the broad engagement enveleope of a quantum torpedo, the ion does in fact have a slight advantage in power usage (even after figuring in the inferior power output of klingon warp cores), and has a significant edge at close range (doing an extra point per firing, and being able to fire 33% more often, which will add up, it works pretty nicely); changes with the ion cannon, as well as fixes to probes and roms, give us reason for optimism...let us not be too hasty to judge, at least not until an official patch is released. Until then, the best thing to do is just put the game aside (I was actually a beta tester for SFC2 long ago, under a different handle, but was so sick of people complaining about the  then  increased plasma holding costs, while I'd be fighting kzinti and feds, with the mirak ships and fed medium freighters always sticking way out of the target schematic box, I hated that, but putting the game aside, I found they finally fixed it within the last year), or just stay away from the k'tinga/fek'lhr hulls for now (I would be very suprised if they don't get fixed in the future), invest heavily in fast dizzies for you forward arcs (they're the most efficient way to use your weapon mass, given the klingons' power issues), and use cloak sparingly (probes in the release version are universally known as being broken, of course, but klinks can't take advantage of their advantages in rate of fire if cloaked anyways), generally cloaking when the enemy is cahrging weapons, rather than going for the quick strike-and-recloak; if you are in a comparable hull class to your opponent, you'll be alright...remember Dogmatix, you aren't the Chancellor anymore, you don't have to go around as if the weight of the entire Empire is on your shoulders, only to be crushed with despair by the temporary disadvantages klingons have to face today- I for one, while I cannot fly under the red banner until k'tingas/feks are worth flying, and k-dizzies (and pulse phasers, they're both bolt-shooters, after all) can hit warping targets as well as beams can (or almost as well, if they can't, klingon defenses, even beefed up as they are in the beta's planet and base assault missions, are a joke, if torpedos and warp are properly used), I will nevertheless continue as an advocate of the klingon people, so that we may one day be recognized again as the first-rate galatic power, and worthy rival to the federation, as we were in previous SFC titles.

May your battles always lead to worthy deaths for you and your foes,
                                                                                                  Cmdr. Krotz, Klingon-in-Exile  

[Aenigma]

Yeah the Klingons are even more underrated then the Romulans, and they are at least going to get fixed up abit. Poor Klingons, they are so cute.

Aenigma,
In The Service of The Empire  

[KBF-Dogmatix]

Cmdr. Krotz:

I haven't really seen much info on the coming patch nor do I have access to it, so basically my comments tend to be geared towards the release version of SFC3, wehat I have read about it and my personal experiences (which have become extensive in the past three weeks and with ALL the races, not just Klingon).  While I like the game, I very much dislike the obvious pro-Fed slant to the game.  I guess it sells Girl Scout cookies, though...

It probably IS just a coincidence, but I found it hilarious that so many non-Fed systems were broken/bugged in some way and yet Fed systems seemed to work as good or even better than first advertised (remember the revelation on pulse phaser damage bleed-through?).  


I would agree with your estimation that the Ion cannon improvements in the coming patch will be a boon to those who fly Klingon.  I commonly forgo outfitting my ships with polarons and k-torps in favor of ion cannon suites,  as it is.  Polarons are nice, but just seem to miss too much.  K-torps fire a lot, but just lack punch.

I also agree that serious improvements to the Klingon shiplist, especially to the K'Tinga and Fek'lhr are needed.  I won't steer clear of Klingon until such time, but these sorts of things certainly lessen my resolve.  


While I may not carry the self-imposed "weight of the Empire" on my shoulds as much as in the past, like you, I still continue to be an advocate of Klingon issues or those of the community in general.  I appreciate your comments and the information you have provided.  I am hopeful things will continue to improve...perhaps even enough to see you return to the fold!  



 

[matyoung]

Borg=Warpcore rape and can recieve H&R from the start due to no shields  
Romulan=weak disruptors plasmas  to long to charge misses to often
Klingon=easily detected undercloak and outgunned by anybody other than rom
Federation=got the defiant and uber weapon Q,s  

Nuff said..      

[Vertigo]

Quote:
Borg=Warpcore rape and can recieve H&R from the start due to no shields  
Romulan=weak disruptors plasmas  to long to charge misses to often
Klingon=easily detected undercloak and outgunned by anybody other than rom
Federation=got the defiant and uber weapon Q,s  

Nuff said..      

You also forgot:
Borg=Loosing 3 officers 1 minute into match.

I think Rom DisRs are fine, really.  And Plasma doesn't miss that much in the Beta patch anymore.   I think Roms will be MUCH improved when they actually release 1.1 final.

 

[KBF-Dogmatix]

I noticed that too, Vertigo..what is that all about?  It seems like my Borg officers are VERY susceptible to being killed...more so that any other race I've flown.


Is this a bug or just bad luck....or maybe even...a FEATURE!  

[SghnDubh]

C'mon Doggy, you know everything baked into this game is a feature -- until the patch is released.    

[Firestorm]

The loss of punch for the Ion Canon over distance concerns me.  Being Klingon and preferring to snipe from afar, a close in weapon doesn't really help much.   If I end up in a close knife fight like that I am probably toast anyways.

[KBF-Dogmatix]

Quote:
C'mon Doggy, you know everything baked into this game is a feature -- until the patch is released.    

Oooooooooh yeah...that's right!  I f'got!  What was I thinking?   heheh...


We're going to have to actually fly together on Triangle X on of these nights, eh?  It's a crime we haven't...



 

[KBF-Dogmatix]

Quote:
The loss of punch for the Ion Canon over distance concerns me.  Being Klingon and preferring to snipe from afar, a close in weapon doesn't really help much.   If I end up in a close knife fight like that I am probably toast anyways.  

I agree, Firestorm...it does seem a little bit contradictory, though the weapon's behavior itself does seem to make sense, I guess.  I suppose we're to use only our dizzies for long range sniping.  K-torps and polarons sure don't get the job done...not like the ole FEDERATION q-torp.


I've flown every race on Triangle X (which added mass to all ships of all races accept Borg) and the Klingons are still the weakest I've flown...Roms are close...but when that plasma DOES hit...oh my...heheh.



 

[Firestorm]

The damage for the Ion Canon is 14, but I assume that is at very close range.  What is the maximum amount of loss, or what is the least amount of damage the Ion Canon will do at its maximum distance???

[Aenigma]

I can't give you the exact numbers, but i think they are going to degrade the range, but make it more powerful in the patch. Right now, an ion cannon at blank range appears not to do even as much damage as a pulse phaser, which is strange considering a ion cannon to be a heavy weapon, while the pulse phaser isn't. Or so recent Tal-Shiar reports confirm

Aenigma
In The Service of The Empire,
captaining the Warbird  RIS Sol Opacus    

[Cmdr. Krotz]

Quote:
The damage for the Ion Canon is 14, but I assume that is at very close range.  What is the maximum amount of loss, or what is the least amount of damage the Ion Canon will do at its maximum distance???  

Er, 14 damage is for the improved (v.101 beta) ion, nobody's done systematic tests on it yet, and there was never much posted on the old version either (no decay rates anyways); my own experience with it has been that it's too inaccurate at extreme range for me to have much of a sense of it's long range capabilities, but as a beam weapon, it's probably not hot. The decay rates generally work in such a way that their (beam weapons') damage potential approaches zero at their maximum range limit; beam weapons (at least the primaries do) also seem to have an optimal firing range, usually from 0 to 5 (or 0 to 10 in the case of the smallest phasers/disruptors), within which beams do their full damage...so to figure out how much damage you will do at a given range, it would probably work to assume that the optimal range is 5, it does 0 damage at the limit of its range (about 25-28, it was reduced from the old ion cannon's range), for a decay rate of around 4.5-5% past range 5 (that's assuming it follows the established paradigm of other beams)...keep in mind this is all just an educated guess though.  

[Son of Technobabble]

Yep... It's a shame it's so underpowered, being as is so much like the good ol' fusion...

[KBF-Dogmatix]

Quote:
I can't give you the exact numbers, but i think they are going to degrade the range, but make it more powerful in the patch. Right now, an ion cannon at blank range appears not to do even as much damage as a pulse phaser, which is strange considering a ion cannon to be a heavy weapon, while the pulse phaser isn't. Or so recent Tal-Shiar reports confirm

Aenigma
In The Service of The Empire,
captaining the Warbird  RIS Sol Opacus    

Heh...I shouldn't be surprised that the pulse phaser is fine and the ion cannon is broken.  One weapon is the sole possession of the Federation and the other is a weapon for a non-Fed race.  There's two kinds of races in SFC3.  Fed and non-Fed.  Fed stuff works great.  Non-Fed stuff is broken.  



 

[Cmdr. Krotz]

Quote:

Heh...I shouldn't be surprised that the pulse phaser is fine and the ion cannon is broken.  One weapon is the sole possession of the Federation and the other is a weapon for a non-Fed race.  There's two kinds of races in SFC3.  Fed and non-Fed.  Fed stuff works great.  Non-Fed stuff is broken.  



 

While the words of a Klingon-turned-Romulan-sympathizer may not carry much weight with you, here's some food for thought.....

On the matter of the ion cannon, the beta patch bumped it up over 50% in damage, from 9 to 14 damage- while it does not have the broad engagement enveleope of a quantum torpedo, the ion does in fact have a slight advantage in power usage (even after figuring in the inferior power output of klingon warp cores), and has a significant edge at close range (doing an extra point per firing, and being able to fire 33% more often, which will add up, it works pretty nicely); changes with the ion cannon, as well as fixes to probes and roms, give us reason for optimism...let us not be too hasty to judge, at least not until an official patch is released. Until then, the best thing to do is just put the game aside (I was actually a beta tester for SFC2 long ago, under a different handle, but was so sick of people complaining about the  then  increased plasma holding costs, while I'd be fighting kzinti and feds, with the mirak ships and fed medium freighters always sticking way out of the target schematic box, I hated that, but putting the game aside, I found they finally fixed it within the last year), or just stay away from the k'tinga/fek'lhr hulls for now (I would be very suprised if they don't get fixed in the future), invest heavily in fast dizzies for you forward arcs (they're the most efficient way to use your weapon mass, given the klingons' power issues), and use cloak sparingly (probes in the release version are universally known as being broken, of course, but klinks can't take advantage of their advantages in rate of fire if cloaked anyways), generally cloaking when the enemy is cahrging weapons, rather than going for the quick strike-and-recloak; if you are in a comparable hull class to your opponent, you'll be alright...remember Dogmatix, you aren't the Chancellor anymore, you don't have to go around as if the weight of the entire Empire is on your shoulders, only to be crushed with despair by the temporary disadvantages klingons have to face today- I for one, while I cannot fly under the red banner until k'tingas/feks are worth flying, and k-dizzies (and pulse phasers, they're both bolt-shooters, after all) can hit warping targets as well as beams can (or almost as well, if they can't, klingon defenses, even beefed up as they are in the beta's planet and base assault missions, are a joke, if torpedos and warp are properly used), I will nevertheless continue as an advocate of the klingon people, so that we may one day be recognized again as the first-rate galatic power, and worthy rival to the federation, as we were in previous SFC titles.

May your battles always lead to worthy deaths for you and your foes,
                                                                                                  Cmdr. Krotz, Klingon-in-Exile  

[Aenigma]

Yeah the Klingons are even more underrated then the Romulans, and they are at least going to get fixed up abit. Poor Klingons, they are so cute.

Aenigma,
In The Service of The Empire  

[KBF-Dogmatix]

Cmdr. Krotz:

I haven't really seen much info on the coming patch nor do I have access to it, so basically my comments tend to be geared towards the release version of SFC3, wehat I have read about it and my personal experiences (which have become extensive in the past three weeks and with ALL the races, not just Klingon).  While I like the game, I very much dislike the obvious pro-Fed slant to the game.  I guess it sells Girl Scout cookies, though...

It probably IS just a coincidence, but I found it hilarious that so many non-Fed systems were broken/bugged in some way and yet Fed systems seemed to work as good or even better than first advertised (remember the revelation on pulse phaser damage bleed-through?).  


I would agree with your estimation that the Ion cannon improvements in the coming patch will be a boon to those who fly Klingon.  I commonly forgo outfitting my ships with polarons and k-torps in favor of ion cannon suites,  as it is.  Polarons are nice, but just seem to miss too much.  K-torps fire a lot, but just lack punch.

I also agree that serious improvements to the Klingon shiplist, especially to the K'Tinga and Fek'lhr are needed.  I won't steer clear of Klingon until such time, but these sorts of things certainly lessen my resolve.  


While I may not carry the self-imposed "weight of the Empire" on my shoulds as much as in the past, like you, I still continue to be an advocate of Klingon issues or those of the community in general.  I appreciate your comments and the information you have provided.  I am hopeful things will continue to improve...perhaps even enough to see you return to the fold!  



 

[matyoung]

Borg=Warpcore rape and can recieve H&R from the start due to no shields  
Romulan=weak disruptors plasmas  to long to charge misses to often
Klingon=easily detected undercloak and outgunned by anybody other than rom
Federation=got the defiant and uber weapon Q,s  

Nuff said..      

[Vertigo]

Quote:
Borg=Warpcore rape and can recieve H&R from the start due to no shields  
Romulan=weak disruptors plasmas  to long to charge misses to often
Klingon=easily detected undercloak and outgunned by anybody other than rom
Federation=got the defiant and uber weapon Q,s  

Nuff said..      

You also forgot:
Borg=Loosing 3 officers 1 minute into match.

I think Rom DisRs are fine, really.  And Plasma doesn't miss that much in the Beta patch anymore.   I think Roms will be MUCH improved when they actually release 1.1 final.

 

[KBF-Dogmatix]

I noticed that too, Vertigo..what is that all about?  It seems like my Borg officers are VERY susceptible to being killed...more so that any other race I've flown.


Is this a bug or just bad luck....or maybe even...a FEATURE!  

[SghnDubh]

C'mon Doggy, you know everything baked into this game is a feature -- until the patch is released.    

[Firestorm]

The loss of punch for the Ion Canon over distance concerns me.  Being Klingon and preferring to snipe from afar, a close in weapon doesn't really help much.   If I end up in a close knife fight like that I am probably toast anyways.

[KBF-Dogmatix]

Quote:
C'mon Doggy, you know everything baked into this game is a feature -- until the patch is released.    

Oooooooooh yeah...that's right!  I f'got!  What was I thinking?   heheh...


We're going to have to actually fly together on Triangle X on of these nights, eh?  It's a crime we haven't...



 

[KBF-Dogmatix]

Quote:
The loss of punch for the Ion Canon over distance concerns me.  Being Klingon and preferring to snipe from afar, a close in weapon doesn't really help much.   If I end up in a close knife fight like that I am probably toast anyways.  

I agree, Firestorm...it does seem a little bit contradictory, though the weapon's behavior itself does seem to make sense, I guess.  I suppose we're to use only our dizzies for long range sniping.  K-torps and polarons sure don't get the job done...not like the ole FEDERATION q-torp.


I've flown every race on Triangle X (which added mass to all ships of all races accept Borg) and the Klingons are still the weakest I've flown...Roms are close...but when that plasma DOES hit...oh my...heheh.