Topic: Badlands (OP) is Up! See inside for details (Read 13819 times)

ZTempest · « **on:** March 25, 2003, 10:55:25 am »

Castrin has brought BADLANDS! back up in the OP D2. It is not a campaign -- just an SFCX server for those of you who have OP to bang around on.

This server uses Firesoul's OP Plus shiplist (excellent job, Firesoul!) and the new missions from Nuclear Wessels, known as the famous "Evil Dave" mission scripts. To play on this server you need to download both.

Everything you need, to include the shiplist download and the Evil Dave missions can be downloaded at the SFCX website, in the downloads section for Orion Pirates.

The URL for SFCX is:

http://www.sfcx.org/

You do not have to be registered to get the downloads -- but I would encourage you to register.

Hope to see some of you there. Once again -- this is not a campaign. There are no victory conditions, etc, just a map, players, and some stress relieving fun

Additionally, this is not the "Reclamation" campaign project that we are currently working on either. We just want to see how the new shiplist works out, and how it interacts with with the mission scripts.

Regards,

Tempest

Maxillius · « **Reply #1 on:** March 25, 2003, 11:17:23 pm »

BUMP!!! Come on, I don't want to be the only guy on!!!

FireSoul · « **Reply #2 on:** March 25, 2003, 11:50:19 pm »

I need help confirming problems with the base assaults.

3 times now I've had THIS after a BattleStation Assault on the Badlands server.
This occurs after:
- I've returned from the mission
- saw no news about the results
- accepted a new mission
- crashed to desktop

I wonder if it's 2538, and not the ED missions.
-- Luc

FireSoul · « **Reply #3 on:** March 25, 2003, 11:51:12 pm »

Although I had fun repeating the process.
Maulers are only in SFC:OP, right?

jdmckinney · « **Reply #4 on:** March 26, 2003, 06:46:23 am »

LOL, I have to say I've never actually seen a player use a mauler against a base in D2. Isn't it funny considering that's what maulers are intended for? Was that an STJ (or variant)? I've always liked that ship.

FireSoul · « **Reply #5 on:** March 26, 2003, 10:28:38 am »

yeah.. a L-STJ.

ZTempest · « **Reply #6 on:** March 26, 2003, 12:02:08 pm »

Maulers are cool

I am documenting things as I come across them as well. This is good feedback and it will definitely help us research and fix potential issues before Reclamation comes online.

Please keep the feedback coming. It is very valuable.

I was on Badlands last night but had to leave because of a thunderstorm rolling into my area. I was drafted once but got the countdown so I restarted my system (that usually fixes it). I will be on tonight as well, and hopefully can do some coop or PvP to test connectivity.

Regards,

Tempest

FireSoul · « **Reply #7 on:** March 26, 2003, 12:06:10 pm »

can someone else try a base mission and reproduce the error? I already reported to NW, but..

I am Lyran, playing a L-STJ mauler, attacking the Mirak base at 6,1. The pirates underneath are Camboro. I have not seen them once. Maybe if someone starts up a Lyran player and attempts to attack the same base, we could have more results?

-- Luc

RogueJedi_XC · « **Reply #8 on:** March 26, 2003, 12:13:07 pm »

After I re-installed the game for the patch, I got it to connect to the Badlands server. WooHoo! Still can't get EAW to Connect, but OP is a start.

What time will you be on this evening, Tempest? Maybe you can help knock off the rust SFC3 has built up on my skills...

PPDs and T-bombs...yeah, baby! I have missed my Frogs.

FireSoul · « **Reply #9 on:** March 26, 2003, 03:14:49 pm »

As already posted in NW's thread about the ED packs:

Hey Dave,

Would you mind backing up the Defensive starting positions in Met_NW9PlanetaryAssault? I wouldn't want to be drafted in a defensive posture by this mission.

Picture worth 1000 words:

-- Luc

----------
Additional info:
Sector 6,3 DV:60 Planet: Mirak
Attempts: 2. Once appeared in news. DV remained unchanged in both attempts.
Pirate cartel underneath: Camboro.

FireSoul · « **Reply #10 on:** March 26, 2003, 04:56:44 pm »

Is Badlands set up to remove destroyed bases?
-- Luc

NuclearWessels · « **Reply #11 on:** March 26, 2003, 04:57:54 pm »

Heh heh heh ... oh ok, I guess I can move them out of destruction range

In single player I haven't been able to reproduce the crash you're experiencing, which is making it more difficult to tell if fixes are helping any, but I have found a couple of things to clean up in the 7BattleStation script that weren't in the other base assault scripts, so there's definitely a chance they're the source of the problem.

I'm also cleaning up some other bits and pieces as feedback comes in from DOE, so I'll likely be releasing updated versions of both the EAW and OP packs by the weekend.

dave

FireSoul · « **Reply #12 on:** March 26, 2003, 07:15:46 pm »

chat server currently down: 8:16pm EST.

-- Luc

FireSoul · « **Reply #13 on:** March 26, 2003, 10:51:52 pm »

now no server.

CptCastrin · « **Reply #14 on:** March 27, 2003, 12:44:35 am »

Quote:

Is Badlands set up to remove destroyed bases?
-- Luc

Yes.

FireSoul · « **Reply #16 on:** March 27, 2003, 01:04:53 am »

I'll try it tomorrow. I'm tired now.

FireSoul · « **Reply #17 on:** March 29, 2003, 01:11:53 am »

Strafer and I did a Surprised Reverse in a neutral hex.
.. the hex stayed neutral. Neutral Coop Bug?

-- Luc

FireSoul · « **Reply #18 on:** March 29, 2003, 01:29:05 am »

Also, the L-LTTGF didn't have a funcitonal spacedock. This is exactly like that other crew-related bug I fixed some time back.
I don't know WHY it's like this for this ship now. The ship seemed good when I double-checked the shiplist.

.. if you encounter MORE ships with such problems, let me know. The more ships I know that suffer from this issue, the easier it will be for me to track problems down and fix them.

-- Luc

Dizzy · « **Reply #19 on:** March 29, 2003, 01:58:54 am »

I managed to get my ass kicked a few times b4 I won a mission, and the news reported it properly, the hex went from a neutral 0 to a Fed 2.

My record is 1 and 5, lol. Damn ED!

I'll log on later and do more testing.

Oh, and Castrin... Give the players 50,000 pp. That way we can test ships faster and such.

Also, lets not wait for our ship we buy in the shipyard. Have it delivered the same turn.

Faster shipyards wouold be nice too.

And I didnt see an option for the command chair coffee mug holder... WTF?

CptCastrin · « **Reply #20 on:** March 29, 2003, 02:04:41 am »

LOL!

Well be glad I didn't leave in the stock 6x multiplier on costs.

Just a FYI to all: Badlands will be run through the weekend, all day and night. So get out there and have some fun while helping us test the kit.

FireSoul · « **Reply #21 on:** March 29, 2003, 02:15:12 am »

I think I solved the L-LTTGF issue:
.. there's more Boarding Parties on the stock ship than its MAX boarding parties value.

Let me write a quick perl script here....

There are more BPs than MAX BPs on ship F-PRES
There are more BPs than MAX BPs on ship L-LTTG
There are more BPs than MAX BPs on ship L-LTTG+
There are more BPs than MAX BPs on ship L-LTTGF

Well.. that's it.

I think I'll start updating the shiplist for a future release. I will chat with my friends whose input was crucial to the creation of this shiplist tomorrow night.

-- Luc

jdmckinney · « **Reply #22 on:** March 29, 2003, 02:50:47 am »

I was on for a couple hours tonight, but the missions were too tough for my rusty skills flying solo. Maybe I could do OK with a wingman, but then there's the whole neutral coop thing. Though I love the ED missions, they are just a tad too rough. If some were a little easier to break up the run of DN/CA/BT fleets I meet in a CA with BT/CA helpers (who die too fast), then maybe I wouldn't feel like such an amateur.

Long story short, I couldn't get any meaningful data due to mission success ratio, length of missions, having too few hexes ready for boosting, etc. Plus, when I tried to team up with Tempest, we absolutely could not get into each other's missions. We'd get drafted, but then fail to connect (countdown and kicked to map). I'm hoping it's an isolated phenomenon.

I may put together a testing map with hexes ready-made for capture and boosting (i.e., more neutral/neutral hexes, more empire/neutral hexes).

IndyShark · « **Reply #23 on:** March 29, 2003, 11:29:02 am »

Where is the Badlands? I checked twice this morning to give it shot and it's been down all morning.

I hope this is a temporary problem!

NuclearWessels · « **Reply #24 on:** March 29, 2003, 12:17:11 pm »

In terms of the difficulty level, I believe the best approach is for the server admin to go to the MissionMatching.gf file and scale the difficulty multiplier back to about 0.8-0.9 instead of the default 1.15.

Just by way of explanation, changing the modifiers in the scripts results in ridiculously easy missions in SP, since the SP game engine behaves differently than the server kit in that regard. I figure it's easier for 3 or 4 server admins to change the setting than for everyone who plays the missions SP (esp. since the server admins have to be much more familiar with the .gf files anyway).

Recommended MissionMatching.gf settings for servers:
Code:


//modifier based difficulty setting
[Diff]
CaptainDiff                     =0.7 // reduced from the 0.85 for SP
CommodoreDiff                  = 0.8 // reduced from the 1.0 for SP
AdmiralDiff                     =0.9 // reduced from the 1.15 for SP

dave

FireSoul · « **Reply #25 on:** March 29, 2003, 12:25:13 pm »

Looks like there WILL have to be another release of the OP+ shiplist at some point:
There are many ships in the shiplist with less deckcrews than fighters. That will need to be fixed.

Here's the output from a perl script I wrote to find these errors. Note that many of these ships are in the stardard shiplist, so the errors exist there too.

-- Luc

Code:


F-FFV has more fighters than deck crews.  4 : 
F-FFV+ has more fighters than deck crews.  4 : 
F-CVB has more fighters than deck crews.  8 : 
F-CVLT has more fighters than deck crews.  9 : 
F-CVLT+ has more fighters than deck crews.  9 : 
F-BSF+ has more fighters than deck crews.  8 : 
F-BSFR has more fighters than deck crews.  8 : 
F-BTSF+ has more fighters than deck crews.  12 : 
F-BTSFR has more fighters than deck crews.  12 : 
F-SBF+ has more fighters than deck crews.  16 : 
F-SBFR has more fighters than deck crews.  16 : 
F-SBZ has more fighters than deck crews.  16 : 
H-PICV has more fighters than deck crews.  6 : 3
H-PICV+ has more fighters than deck crews.  6 : 3
H-FQS has more fighters than deck crews.  2 : 
H-BS has more fighters than deck crews.  4 : 2
H-BS+ has more fighters than deck crews.  8 : 2
H-BSR has more fighters than deck crews.  8 : 2
H-BSF+ has more fighters than deck crews.  8 : 2
H-BSFR has more fighters than deck crews.  8 : 2
H-BATS has more fighters than deck crews.  8 : 2
H-BATS+ has more fighters than deck crews.  8 : 2
H-BATSR has more fighters than deck crews.  8 : 2
H-BTSF+ has more fighters than deck crews.  12 : 2
H-BTSFR has more fighters than deck crews.  12 : 2
H-SB has more fighters than deck crews.  8 : 
H-SB+ has more fighters than deck crews.  8 : 
H-SBR has more fighters than deck crews.  8 : 
H-SBF+ has more fighters than deck crews.  16 : 
H-SBFR has more fighters than deck crews.  16 : 
H-SBS has more fighters than deck crews.  8 : 
H-SBX has more fighters than deck crews.  16 : 
H-RNT has more fighters than deck crews.  12 : 9
H-SBZ has more fighters than deck crews.  16 : 
I-BBV has more fighters than deck crews.  16 : 6
I-BBVZ has more fighters than deck crews.  16 : 6
I-BTSF+ has more fighters than deck crews.  12 : 
I-BTSFR has more fighters than deck crews.  12 : 
I-SBF+ has more fighters than deck crews.  16 : 
I-SBFR has more fighters than deck crews.  16 : 
I-SBZ has more fighters than deck crews.  16 : 
K-D7N has more fighters than deck crews.  1 : 
K-BSF+ has more fighters than deck crews.  8 : 
K-BSFR has more fighters than deck crews.  8 : 
K-BTSF+ has more fighters than deck crews.  12 : 
K-BTSFR has more fighters than deck crews.  12 : 
K-SBF+ has more fighters than deck crews.  16 : 
K-SBFR has more fighters than deck crews.  16 : 
K-SBZ has more fighters than deck crews.  16 : 
Z-CLV has more fighters than deck crews.  7 : 
Z-BSF+ has more fighters than deck crews.  8 : 
Z-BSFR has more fighters than deck crews.  8 : 
Z-BTSF+ has more fighters than deck crews.  12 : 
Z-BTSFR has more fighters than deck crews.  12 : 
Z-SBF+ has more fighters than deck crews.  16 : 
Z-SBFR has more fighters than deck crews.  16 : 
Z-SBZ has more fighters than deck crews.  16 : 
Z-WZFF has more fighters than deck crews.  1 : 
Z-WZFF+ has more fighters than deck crews.  1 : 
Z-WZDF has more fighters than deck crews.  1 : 
Z-WFZX has more fighters than deck crews.  1 : 
O-BB1 has more fighters than deck crews.  12 :

jdmckinney · « **Reply #26 on:** March 29, 2003, 12:31:01 pm »

Dave, that's good advice. Thanks!

IndyShark · « **Reply #27 on:** March 29, 2003, 09:56:28 pm »

Badlands is a blast, but I noticed one problem. In a planetary assault in an asteroid field, I captured the planet, but the defense did not go down. I am not sure why. I have not been able to recreate it yet since it took forever to capture the first planet since Dave is Evil and the entire Klingon Imperial Space Fleet was defending the planet!

Just a point of interest, I have never seen a BC or DN in the shipyard. Perhaps the Federation shipyard isn't building any?

I will have to log on as another race to see if they are getting any BC's or DN's.

IndyShark · « **Reply #28 on:** March 29, 2003, 10:08:58 pm »

I don't see any BC's or DN's in the Lyran shipyard.

FireSoul · « **Reply #29 on:** March 29, 2003, 10:48:22 pm »

I have bought a BC.

jdmckinney · « **Reply #30 on:** March 30, 2003, 09:24:15 am »

They are probably quite rare. I haven't seen any in the Hydran, Gorn, or Romulan yards when I was playing them.

Indy, on that mission, did you check the news afterward? If there's no report of a battle there, then it was recorded as a draw somehow. Were there any pirates in the mission? I've found neutral non-cartel Orions seem to mess things up, but I don't have enough data to prove it.

Speaking of which, there are way too many non-cartel Orions showing up in scripts. They really don't add anything, and tend to complicate the results. Is there a way to cut them out of the scripts, or severely reduce their chance to spawn? The good news is so far the only cartel Orions I've seen have been in Surprise Reversed. Without any AI cartel ships on the map, they tend not to appear in the missions.

I was able to boost a cartel-neutral Romulan hex (captured from Fed) with a Fleet Action. The next mission had no DV change, but was reported in news, so I think it would have boosted, but the hex must have been at full health. That one was the Met_NW17Patrol. More info is needed.

Castrin may be swapping in a new testing map I threw together that uses more neutral space and mostly cartel-neutral space. All the DVs are equal to economy, so it will be easy to tell when a hex is full health or not.

IndyShark · « **Reply #31 on:** March 30, 2003, 09:35:27 am »

I did not check the news (I will next time). The hex was a Klingon planet that had never been attacked before. There were no pirates but I did get an easy kill. The planet had a ring around it and when the game launched, I got the message that a defending ship was destroyed. It looks like NW may need to adjust the starting location of defending ships in a planet assault. I am not sure if the planet of the asteroids killed the defender, but I will try again against another planet to see if it happens again.

jdmckinney · « **Reply #32 on:** March 30, 2003, 10:11:40 am »

That's interesting. Did all defenders get killed, or just one/some? I wonder if it awards a draw when no shots are fired, even if there is a win? That doesn't seem right, but anything's possible. Also, what was the cartel underneath, if any? Were they allied to you?

IndyShark · « **Reply #33 on:** March 30, 2003, 10:21:18 am »

I just tried it again and the same thing happened. I attacked a different Klingon planet with Korgath control. When the game started, the ringed planet killed one of the defenders and there were no asteroids this time. I killed the two remaining defenders and captured the planet. I got pp for the mission, but the defense did not change and there was no announcement in the news section.

I think there may be a problem with the planet assault mission. It's a lot of fun, but a lot of work for no impact on the defense!

jdmckinney · « **Reply #34 on:** March 30, 2003, 10:35:19 am »

Do the Korgath like the Feds? If so, that's likely your problem.

I just ran a Courier Intercept as Romulan in a Fed/Orion Cartel hex. Roms and Orion Cartel are friendly. I got no news item, no DV change, but won by killing the courier and all 3 escorts. I lost one AI wingman, but one survived. By all rights I should have won the hex, and flipped it neutral (it is a starting DV of 5). It seems pretty clear to me friendly cartels will negate your wins against enemy hexes.

Hopefully Castrin will be able to put up the new test map today so we can see if blanket cartel-neutral hexes will fix this problem. The key will be if boosting works OK on cartel-neutral hexes, regardless of the political tension with the "neutrals." If it does (and I've seen good indicators so far), then we may have a workaround that will suffice for empire-only games.

IndyShark · « **Reply #35 on:** March 30, 2003, 11:26:36 am »

The Federation distrusts the Korgath, but I don't think that's the problem. I ran a fleet action mission in the hex next to the planet I mentioned. Both hexes were Klingon/Korgath. I was able to reduce the defense for the fleet action and an appropriate message appeared in the news section. I think there may be a problem with the planetary assault missions.

jdmckinney · « **Reply #36 on:** March 30, 2003, 01:40:03 pm »

Have you posted this to Dave's missions threads, or sent him email? I think he was planning another release of the scripts soon.

Dizzy · « **Reply #37 on:** March 30, 2003, 01:45:14 pm »

Castrin, it might be helpful if all hex DV's were the same to start, had the same threshold going to neutral 0 DV and then a max of perhaps 5... just to make it all uniform. MB stick all the economy in a capitol.

So thats 5 max and they go neutral at 0 and they increase and decrease per mission by 1.

And give us 50,000 pp so we can better test these missions with decent ships not having to worry about dying.. ED missions with my CLC take me anywhere from 8 to 25 mins. I dont have that kinda time to run a single mission to test things.

Oh, and I noticed that I tried to trade in a FF after I had been damaged in combat. Spacedock charged me 50 pp just to take it back!

Is the trade in set to 100%? Be good if it were.

Maxillius · « **Reply #38 on:** March 30, 2003, 01:49:25 pm »

Sounds good

I'll stick with my KE for a while though. I'm having fun even if it IS broken.

FireSoul · « **Reply #39 on:** March 30, 2003, 02:37:35 pm »

How is your KE borked? Is it something in the shiplist?

-- Luc

IndyShark · « **Reply #41 on:** March 30, 2003, 02:52:23 pm »

Thank you Dave! The planets I attacked did not have any defense platforms, but they had a ton of marines (39) and Ph4. I assume this is the modifed Taldren script.

jdmckinney · « **Reply #42 on:** March 30, 2003, 06:26:23 pm »

Some results:

Friendly cartel under enemy hex prevents you from hurting it.

Enemy cartel under your hex prevents you from boosting it.

Neutral cartel under a hex seems to have not adverse effects.

Neutral coop seems not to work with same-race players.

Neutral coop does seem to work with players from allied races. (Tempest as Rom and me as Klingon flipped a neutral hex to Klingon with a Data Recovery that I initiated -- I was also first to get data and cross border.)

ED version of Data Recovery still shows old script bug where AI tries to pilot a player ship that gets to the platform in a multiplayer mission. (Dave, is this a bug that's even squashable?) Solo mission doesn't have this bug.

So far, it looks like the ED missions tend to work with a blanket neutral cartel map (I'd put in minor cartel space out of the way just so server doesn't get confused by a race having no territory). Coop may be possible with allies, but not players of the same race.

Also, the current Badlands settings have ISC as enemy to Romulans and Gorn, yet Rom missions against AI hex near Gorn space were drafting ISC as allies and Gorn as enemies (Gorn are more of an enemy than ISC). Dave, is there any way for the scripts to properly handle multiple teams? They seem fine when dealing with non-cartel Orions, yet when an empire group tries a 3-way, the game gets confused. I don't know if this is a kit problem or a script problem.

More testing to come after dinner.

IndyShark · « **Reply #43 on:** March 30, 2003, 06:54:00 pm »

It looks like Badlands is down again. It figures. Windy just logged on and I finally had a wingman when it crashed.

Does anyone have an idea when it will be back up?

NuclearWessels · « **Reply #44 on:** March 30, 2003, 06:59:08 pm »

I'll look into the AI takeover problem in the data recovery - (hopefully) it should be squishable.

The fact that neutral coop works with allied races but not your own race is very interesting - I'll do some searching along those lines and see what I can come up with.

Three-way fights, on the other hand, are very difficult to handle correctly -- to the point where I'm not inclined to fight with it. You can only specify tensions relative to the drafter, and if told to draft enemies of the main player, it doesn't care what other relationships should be present, only that they're enemies of the drafter.

You can get around this by writing specific missions for specific alliances - e.g. write the mission scripts specifically for a F/G v L/K/R v M/H/I (or whatever) server, but those scripts would give completely bogus results for any other alliance. (And I'm not ambitious enough to sculpt different mission packs for all the different common alliances

)

EDIT: BTW the reason it usually works ok for non-cartel Orions is because those are (usually) scripted in as NPCs which don't report results of their own when the mission ends.

If anyone's got some bright ideas on this one I'd love to hear it, but for now I think three way (or four way) servers will have to live with some oddness when you draft enemies who also happen to be enemies of each other.

dave

jdmckinney · « **Reply #46 on:** March 30, 2003, 07:23:16 pm »

I restarted Badlands. It suffered an error. I haven't made any changes to Castrin's map or settings. Doing so over remote access would have been iffy with the delays in screen refreshes and whatnot. Regardless, it's his server and I'd rather he knew what was going on with it.

IndyShark · « **Reply #47 on:** March 30, 2003, 07:28:40 pm »

Thanks Nomad!

jdmckinney · « **Reply #48 on:** March 30, 2003, 08:19:33 pm »

I was, strangely enough, having trouble LOSING missions just now. A Base Defense on a Romulan/cartel neutral hex didn't drop DV even after I died and self-destructed the base against the AI attackers. Another mission didn't drop DV on a self-destruct loss, either, but I don't remember which it was (it wasn't a standard patrol -- maybe recharge?). On the third try, in a Met_NW17Patrol, I managed to lose by hitting a rock after taking out some of my allies the same way. DV did drop that time. Then a Met_NW10Patrol loss by the same method also dropped DV.

FireSoul · « **Reply #49 on:** March 30, 2003, 08:42:05 pm »

Is anyone collecting D2 server bugs?

IndyShark · « **Reply #50 on:** March 30, 2003, 08:42:29 pm »

I found a few more problems. Windy an d I tried a base assault and a fleet assault in a base hex. We won both in a Klingon/Korgath hex with no impact on defence. We ran several courier misions with the same result in a hex with no base.

While the defense does not seem to work too well, the shiplist and missions are a blast! I love the courier mission! I just wish there were some easy way to identify the courier. I see the name and the starting location, but it is a GREAT mission. I love it.

As far as the shiplist is concerned, can we tweak the rarity factors? I run into K-TGA, K-TGAK and D-5 carriers all the time! I have never seen a D7 and only one D6 (D6M). I would think the carriers and tuggs would be rare and the D7 and D6 much more common.

Don't get me wrong, I love this server. I'd just like to make a few adjustments to make it more realistic.

FireSoul · « **Reply #51 on:** March 30, 2003, 09:26:29 pm »

I would approve in tweaking "rarity" factors, but that's not in the shiplist itself.
.. can it be done via the server?

-- Luc

FireSoul · « **Reply #54 on:** March 30, 2003, 10:06:15 pm »

so.. when's that gonna be?

-- Luc

Dizzy · « **Reply #55 on:** March 30, 2003, 10:37:23 pm »

More news:

Very difficult to get missions in your own hex.

Neutral hex mission variety is only 3x, courier intercept, convoy raid, holding action.

Friendlly hex missions I get patrols and some others missions that never appear on neutral hexes.

Noticed that Impedance varies on the map sometimes 1 and then .75. Wonder why?

Shipyard variety has a lot of Tugs and FF's. Finding a good ship is difficult. Also noticed that firesouls shiplist apparently doesnt phase out older ships further clogging the shipyards.

Several game bugs maybe... I had 6 marines on a klingon ship I was about to capture and my Hydran AI ally shot at it and killed it. IIRC, when you have marines on board a ship, the AI switched to disable weapons mode.

I think that I may have seen a system repair not completed as the mission ended.

There is also no coffee mug holder option for the command chair... WTF?

Saw Katcroup on the server and he didnt even say hi...

jdmckinney · « **Reply #57 on:** March 31, 2003, 06:33:27 am »

Dave, I personally haven't had any problems with the Courier Intercept that I couldn't explain away. Then again, I only played it once solo (no problems) and once coop (Tempest ran up the middle and got smacked, the AI ally did the same, and I ran like a frightened mouse -- thus no win). We tried another time and failed to draft, probably because I was moving when Tempest got the mission offering. Nice mission.

About rarity of ships, that should be due to .gf settings. My guess is for normal Badlands play, Castrin doesn't want BCHes and DNs to appear that often, since the prices are set very low.

Dizzy, how much more testing do you think you need before you decide whether OP can handle SG3? If we need to get up a better testing environment, we'll have to do it quickly. Also, I'm generally not free for testing as much during the week. We could use more players. Are any SG3 players/RMs/etc. interested in helping out?

CptCastrin · « **Reply #58 on:** March 31, 2003, 10:22:46 am »

Server will be reset tonight with the following changes:

Starting PP up to 5000.
DN+ sized ships more frequent and cheaper.
Ship delivery will be instant.
New test map (thanks to Nomad).
Missions in friendly space turned on (was off).

There have been a few questions as to the map and why is it the way it is. Actually this is the Taldren MiddleMap(.mvm) with some modifications to some neutral areas. Beyond that it's stock. I used this map for a few reasons but mainly because for a "fun" non-campaign server there really wasn't a reason to remake the wheel so to say (i.e. I was lazy

).

The server will be back up around 8pm.

Thanks to all that have come out and tested things or just came out to have fun.

FireSoul · « **Reply #61 on:** March 31, 2003, 10:49:26 am »

so this'll be test version #2?
-- Luc

jdmckinney · « **Reply #62 on:** March 31, 2003, 10:58:07 am »

I may be reworking the test map today. What would be the best layout, considering the following (or add/edit to fit what you all feel we need):

1. Very few (1-5) hexes of territory per cartel. This can be either under an empire toward the map edges to stay out of the way of blanket neutral hex testing, or in empire neutral space toward the map edges or combined under empire and neutral to give us the option of testing cartel interaction.

2. DV ranges to vary with a maximum of what? Originally I put 100 DV on HWs, 30 on core worlds and BATS, 20 on BSes, 10 on 6 hexes around HWs and some of the empire neutral hexes, and 5 for the balance of empire and neutral "blank" hexes. With a per-mission DV effect of 1 to better measure results, high DVs would take too long for just a few players to flip. Maybe we don't need to worry about flipping, though, since the real question is boosting. If we lose in empire hexes under PvP to weaken them, that will allow us to concentrate on boosting them as defenders. For neutral hexes, I'm thinking lower DV is better so we can test neutral coop and flipping at the same time.

3. Economy should be high on HW, but spread out econ to all hexes to make sure we have plenty for ship production. DVs and econs should match so it is easy to tell a full-health hex from a weakened/restored one.

I think I recall the DV flip threshold is hardcoded, and not changeable via .gf settings. If memory serves, the flip was at roughly .2 of starting DV, though I am not certain. If this is true, DV restore percentage must be at least .2 to avoid having a hex that flips even if you win a boosting mission when the boosted value would still be under .2 of total. I recommend a .25 restore just to be safe. If the kits were changed at some point to allow flips to happen at 0 instead of .2, then we don't need to worry about this. I've never seen mention of this having been changed, though I would frankly prefer to have the ability to determine flip percentage.

So, what do we need?

FireSoul · « **Reply #63 on:** March 31, 2003, 01:57:45 pm »

Aww heck. I'll do a OP+ 1.21 release today. That way, you'll all enjoy ships that recieved fixes.

-- Luc

jdmckinney · « **Reply #64 on:** March 31, 2003, 02:11:10 pm »

Heh -- you two are just machines. Give a yell when you have new releases so we can make sure the server is using them.

FireSoul · « **Reply #65 on:** March 31, 2003, 02:18:58 pm »

I'm done.
http://klingon.stasis.ca/OP_plusrefit/op_plusrefit_shiplist-20030331.zip for the OP+ version 1.21

Dizzy · « **Reply #66 on:** March 31, 2003, 02:45:11 pm »

wtg firesoul... Question... Did you phase out all older ships when their newer refits appear? This would help TREMENDOUSLY!

Dizzy · « **Reply #67 on:** March 31, 2003, 02:50:12 pm »

Oh, and JD, you might wanna ask the EAW server admins about the way to set the hex values to go up and down by 1 and to have all uniform maximum values when the hexes have different starting DV's.

I.E. All hexes have a maximum DV of 50, the hex goes neutral on zero, and the missions change the hex DV by increments of one. All this while having the map use different start DV's such as a HW starting with 40, and a coreworld with 30 and neutral or empire space at 10. All these hexes would still max at 50, flip at zero, etc...

There was a trick to get it to do so, cuz before on RT's the DV's never behaved properly. They all had different Maximum values, flipped at different DV levels and just wernt uniform...

Lemee see if I have that info here somewhere... Boy will you owe me if I find it

Dizzy · « **Reply #68 on:** March 31, 2003, 03:00:28 pm »

Found it. Bow down before your master and worship me you sniveling little WORM! MUHAHAHAHAHA!

Ok, to start with, if you want hexes to start with DV's in the range of 10-40 but be raisable to 50 you need to edit the DB to adjust the max DV levels for each hex. When you create a hex with a start DV of 40, it is stored as:

28 00 00 00 28 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 F0 3F , 28 is hexidecimal for 40

this must be edited to read:

32 00 00 00 28 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 F0 3F , 32 is hexidecimal for 50

now its easy to make the changes, you just need to keep track of what hexes you want to have what DV's, and then do a find/replace with a hex editor to make a big sweeping change.

it is possible to have a different max DV level for each hex, but would advise against it. When a hex is taken by a new race the server checkes the HHRR (HexHealthResetRatio) which is expressed as a percentage and assigns the hex a DV based on that % of the hexes max DV. so if a majority of your hexes have a max DV of 50 to get the DV the go up and down by 1 point, and flip to a value of 1 you use a HHRR of 0.02. when you start using different max DV's sometimes you get strange results, hexes jumping up to DV's higher than 1 when flipped, hexes which refuse to STAY flipped (going back to a neutral state when someone tries to raise the DV etc etc etc) It can get ugly. Stick with a max DV of 50 for all hexes and you will not have a problem.

it sounds harder than it actually is, since we use a find and replace function we can change the max DV for every hex with a value of 40 at once. It just requires that the person who creates the map keeps track of all the DV's he has used

50DV is probably the easiest to coordinate the HHRR and the amount a DV drops or rises after a mission, you could use a lower number if you wanted, you would just need to figure out the percentages that will work for it.

Now I dont know how different the OP server kit is, but I'll wager its very close. GL...

you have the EAW crew and server admins to thank for this info. They worked hard to get this straightened out. Shame on Taldren for not including the artifex tools or help guide. Bad Taldren!

FireSoul · « **Reply #70 on:** March 31, 2003, 03:20:30 pm »

I posted the exact changes in the shiplist in the general forum:

http://208.57.228.4/ubbthreads/showflat.php?Cat=&Board=UBB1&Number=54232

-- Luc

jdmckinney · « **Reply #71 on:** March 31, 2003, 04:27:16 pm »

Dizzy, hexidecimal edits are beyond my purview (passing the buck to Castrin, in other words). It does sound very nice, and whoever came up with the solution deserves a medal. I don't know if we'll have time to do this for a testing server, but it's defiinitely good to know. One question that comes to mind is if this works for the OP DB as easily as EAW, since there might be differences in the code positions.

Luc, I always like to phase out ships the year before a sweeping refit (like Y175 refits) since mostly SFB treated these as available immediately. Any players with unrefitted ships would represent the portions of the fleet who hadn't made it back for refits. The only negative is that the AI can't use unrefit ships, which deprives them of some variety. So, I would generally pull a lot of drone race ships by year 11 to make it a clean sweep for the Y175 refits. In other more floating refits, a couple years overlap seems plenty to allow for all ships in the field to get back to dock. In some cases, the SFB material does a decent job of saying "all ships received this refit by Y???" but that is the exception rather than the rule. Does anyone else miss the SFC1 refit option?

NuclearWessels · « **Reply #72 on:** March 31, 2003, 04:28:01 pm »

Okeee dokey, the revised OP mission pack is just loading now, at
http://www.sfcx.org/downloads/mirrors/NuclearWessels/OPMissions.zip

Lots of small changes, plus one new mission (Met_NW13BigGame.scr)

dave

Dizzy · « **Reply #73 on:** March 31, 2003, 04:37:33 pm »

Dave, why do some missions only appear in neutral space and others in friendly... such as the patrol mission. I would think you would get more variety of mission choices in enemy or neutral space. Are there too many missions?

I noticed the ones I get 90% of the time in enemy space are Holding actions, Convoy Raids, and Surprised reversed... I think I saw another mission a cpl times...

But thats about it. Then when I go back into friendlky space, there is a lot of variety...

I'd like to see some fleet actions and patrols show up in neutral and enemy hexes.

Have you considered customizing the missions with a map maker? I.E., team up with JD so you guys can set a preference for missions and where they are to appear... For instance, JD in making the map, could use shipping lane hexes in jkey strategic areas to get missions that trigger on those hexes other than the standard convoy raid.

It just seems that having a particular type of terrain as a trigger would be the only way to see more than a cpl mission types pop up in the commone empty neutral or enemy hexes. Those hexes which are the most common on the map should get the most variety, yet they do not.

Obviously you see the problem with repetitious missions.

Corbomite · « **Reply #74 on:** March 31, 2003, 04:40:37 pm »

Cool. Thanks Dave. It's raining mods today. Looks like FireSoul will have to redo his .mct's though.

jdmckinney · « **Reply #76 on:** March 31, 2003, 05:26:12 pm »

Dave, I was actually thinking some of the neutral coop problem missions may be OK when you have allied (different race) players. We haven't had enough testing, but it seemed to me the only sure thing I'd seen so far was that neutral coop better be teams of players from different empires.

Does this eliminate some patrols from enemy and neutral space? Do you have a list handy?

FireSoul · « **Reply #77 on:** March 31, 2003, 05:39:45 pm »

For refits, what I suggest is a little bot of overlap, and apply it everywhere:
ie: 3 years?

For example:
If a F-CA+ becomes a F-CAR in Y175, the F-CA+ should still be available until Y178..

What do you think? Something like this will take some time.
-- Luc

jdmckinney · « **Reply #79 on:** March 31, 2003, 05:43:27 pm »

I only suggested my guideline when I work on a list. I try to err on the side of less overlap, but I could see a number of good reasons to overlap refit versions to provide more variety.

I don't envy you the task of trying to go through that entire list to edit the YLA. More power to you.

jdmckinney · « **Reply #81 on:** March 31, 2003, 05:49:06 pm »

I seem to recall you had a stable of testers who helped you try out the ships -- have you polled them? I'd think they'd have a good perspective, being so familiar with the list.

FireSoul · « **Reply #82 on:** March 31, 2003, 05:49:42 pm »

Only strafer is really a D2 player.. so it would just be 2 of us.

FireSoul · « **Reply #86 on:** March 31, 2003, 06:59:15 pm »

It's up. I intend to append to his announcement when he does it.

NuclearWessels · « **Reply #87 on:** March 31, 2003, 07:04:35 pm »

Doh! Guess that means I better remember to go do it

dave

FireSoul · « **Reply #89 on:** March 31, 2003, 09:07:32 pm »

maybe a new thread should be started for round 2?

News:

Topic: Badlands (OP) is Up! See inside for details (Read 13819 times) var addthis_config = {"data_track_clickback":true};

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Topic: Badlands (OP) is Up! See inside for details (Read 13819 times)