Topic: SFCX OP Campaign: Your Thoughts? (Polls) (Read 12160 times)

Dizzy · « **Reply #20 on:** March 24, 2003, 01:31:05 am »

I see you are in san antonio TX as well.

Lets meet at Sarritas and settle this with an arm wrestle fight. Best 2 out of 3.

I'm very serious. If the OP D2 DV is fixed, I'll take SG3 there in a second. But its not so I wont.

And ya, ZT, I remember trading emails with you and our hydran RM roles on the RT servers, but you dont know why I'm taking this to the next level. And it isnt you.

ZTempest · « **Reply #21 on:** March 24, 2003, 01:43:06 am »

Quote:

I see you are in san antonio TX as well.

Lets meet at Sarritas and settle this with an arm wrestle fight. Best 2 out of 3.

I'm very serious. If the OP D2 DV is fixed, I'll take SG3 there in a second. But its not so I wont.

And ya, ZT, I remember trading emails with you and our hydran RM roles on the RT servers, but you dont know why I'm taking this to the next level. And it isnt you.

I understand, Dizzy. And yes, I am in San Antonio as well. Active Army stationed here (22 years now, career Army, been here for the past three years). I work out at Camp Bullis.

Maybe we'll meet sometime and buy some beers on the Riverwalk at Fiesta. I know it isn't me, and I know how frustrated you can get. I DO understand you to some degree, because I have followed your exploits since some of your first posts.

I have played on all of the Slave Girls servers -- up until now they have all been OP campaigns, but I understand your frustration with the OP DV issues -- after all, it is what damaged the last Rooks Tavern. I know it is not about me, and I know that it has everything to do with the campaign.

SG3 is not endangered. I imagine that if there is an OP campaign put up by SFCX, that it will be a fun server, and not a serious effort on the same scale as a Rooks Tavern, Badlands, Tides of War, etc. We have a lot of irons in the fire...and perhaps it would be to our benifit if Castrin coordinated with Tracy to fit in a couple of serious OP campaigns.

Once again, I understand where you are coming from. We will work through it -- this community needs to be united, not divided....and servicing both sides of the D2 might be a step in the right direction in fostering more players.

ZTempest · « **Reply #24 on:** March 24, 2003, 02:01:59 am »

Heh.

Well, your position is stated quite well.

Look, I am not even sure what this issue is about anymore. Is it an EAW vs OP thing, or do you have a problem with Nomad testing the waters?

Read my last post, Dizzy. I am not the bad guy here. I even support SG3. If you choose not to host it, then so be it. Your choice. It is a free country. Getting a slot for JD's server by making you mad enough not to host SG3? LOL! How amusing! If there is an OP server put up....why does it have to revolve around whether or not there is an SG3?

I told you before....SG3 is not being threatened. Put your server up....we will all have fun on it. We might run a fun Op server as well. Is there anything wrong with that?

And who made you god of the D2? Anybody with a computer can run a server as far as I know. Shoot. I could even run a server if I wanted to. You do not have a monopoly on what does and does not happen there. I imagine that you want to run SG3 for the same reasons that other members of this community that take the time to design and run these campaigns -- because it is fun and sort of cool. It is not about power or control -- we do this for fun....or at least I do.

And, like most other senior NCOs...I take my coffee black, no sugar. Cream is for....heh. Almost broke my own rule.

Dizzy · « **Reply #25 on:** March 24, 2003, 02:07:18 am »

This thread has now possibly passed the point of comical, I hope, and real progress can now be made. Wait. What was that you said about my mother?

Mog · « **Reply #27 on:** March 24, 2003, 05:11:23 am »

Doug, Castrin, Zach, I've sent you all an email with my thoughts on what to try.

Dizzy, you don't feel threatened by a test server do you? What with this, and your petty little argument with Herr Burt about who decided to use Tholians first, it's becoming more and more obvious that you're on an ego trip here. If you want to boot me off your SG3 team for saying this then go right ahead.

As for whether OP D2 works or not, there's only one way to find out, and if the only players who help are the ones who only have OP, then so be it. Any who help will have my gratitude, as ever since OP was released it has been my favourite game of the series, and to hopefully have a resurgence in its popularity makes me happy.

Can-able · « **Reply #28 on:** March 24, 2003, 06:10:25 am »

Dizzy

I just feel that i have to say this to you ...... STFU you ego maniac !!!!!

I am amazed at how self inmportant you think you are...... For god sake grow up...

Please remove me access to you SG3 server team forum, i can't be arsed to ever read [censored] by you any more, i once though hay he is funny..... I liked the agro you caused people...But this is petty...and just you wanting to be self important.

You shore you are a grown adult or you a 5 year old kid....I am never shore with the way you act.

Also i have 2 Weeks of work and 3 spare servers to build...Hummm...Might just host at the same time as SG3

My point being is YOU could not stop me......

And if you keep shouting ya mouth and acting like you own the D2 i might just do it out of spite, becuse thats the kind of person i am.

GL with SG3 and have fun...just stope being a prick !!!

I read the thing about you thinking you where the first to use tholians as well and well No they where in SFB first, and every one has been trying to get them in to this game for ages, So you did NOT come up with the idea.......

EDIT : Thease are my thoughts NOT SFCX !!!! mine all mine

IndyShark · « **Reply #29 on:** March 24, 2003, 07:05:54 am »

I'd love to see a new OP campaign. Bring on the OP+ shiplist and EvilDave!

jdmckinney · « **Reply #30 on:** March 24, 2003, 08:07:16 am »

Wow. I post some polls to see if people would like certain things done in an SFCX OP server under a test kit, and it becomes a Dizzy hate thread? Thank you to all who actually discussed the topic.

Dizzy, I don't know why you seem to be dead set against the SFCX group even hosting a server. Even if you have a problem with me or one of our group members, why do you think it affects you if we host a server? Certainly, I'm not out to torpedo SG -- I'm not even aware of anything about it other than a name and that it seems to be in the final planning stages. Seriously, I don't read EAW campaign threads, and haven't for some time. I don't play EAW campaigns (not enough time), so I don't read threads about them. If someone asked me about SG, I'd guess it was an EAW campaign run by Dizzy that is due out "soon," though I would also have wondered why it's taking so long to get started, since it seems to have been in planning for some time now. I really don't know anything about it, and don't really care. I also have not even glanced at this supposed "schedule" that seems to exist (I didn't know about it until I read this thread).

"Coming soon" means "coming soon." There is no target date, though I generally like to get things done ASAP. In my experience, it tends to take between 2 weeks and 3 months to plan, test, and begin a campaign, depending on how complex the VCs and map design are. I even mentioned in an email to the SFCX crew we could conceivably get something running by the weekend -- but I didn't realistically expect to be able to roll out by then. We usually take a few weeks to get things done, due to people's schedules, time for planning/design/testing, etc.

So, would I push to roll out a campaign during SG's run (or any other campaign, EAW or OP)? Yes, because we have been waiting for a usable OP D2 for a year, and we've waited long enough. This test server kit seems to give us workable DV changes for the first time since OP was released. We have a kick-butt custom shiplist the community enjoys. There are custom missions for OP now. With a working D2, what is left to test and wait for? Testing can basically happen during campaigns, as long as people understand that we might find more bugs.

Dizzy, you do what is best for you and your players -- if that means getting a copy of the OP test kit and making SG an OP campaign, then great! If it means sticking with a proven platform and running it on EAW, then that's great, too! I hope and expect you'll get a lot of players, except of course for those who hate you enough to avoid anything your name is attached to -- though I bet most people are indifferent and just want a good campaign.

I personally don't care how many people play on an SFCX server. If it's more than 1 per empire, then that would be cool. If not, at least we would have offered OP players something.

If someone could give me a clue as to how many players the EAW servers have been drawing at peak hours, I'd appreciate the insights. I really don't know if there are enough for even one campaign, or enough for a dozen. Are campaigns using a player limit of 32? 48? whatever? Are they getting filled at peak hours? Also, are there still more EAW diehards than people who would consider playing OP?

The bottom line for me is OP needs to be played, or it won't get further fixes -- there's no need to fix it if nobody will play it. SFCX has been wanting to do a number of OP campaigns for the past year and been unable to do so thanks to the D2 bugs. If someone asks us to wait, I'll tell them I'm sorry, but we won't let others dictate our schedule. We were more than giving in our delays when there were 3 competing OP campaigns, plus EAW ones, and we tended to get pushed back and back until there wasn't a game left to host. While I think schedules are a good thing, I don't think anyone or any group has the right to dictate when the other admins can or can't host a server, or what form it should take.

Dizzy, if you want to continue your flames, please start a new thread for it. Our plans don't revolve around you, and we don't answer to you. If you insist on seeing us as enemies or competition, then that's your problem. I'm more than willing to work with or talk to anyone who wants to see OP become the game it can be and serve the players.

One last thing: Castrin has said it before, and I think it's true: ALL servers should be "FUN" servers. Regardless of what level of VCs or rules are used, if they aren't fun, they're just a waste of time and effort. We'll make whatever sort of campaign we feel like making, and either people will have fun or they won't go there. "Fun" doesn't mean trivial, second-rate, or filler. At least, it doesn't to me.

jdmckinney · « **Reply #31 on:** March 24, 2003, 08:28:34 am »

So, with that out of the way, where were we?

Oh yes, the polls. So far, with just a dozen-ish people weighing in, it looks like folks want:

1. OP Plus Shiplist
2. Capture/expansion VCs
3. Teams of empires
4. Combination of Taldren and ED missions

Thanks for the feedback, and keep it coming.

Tracey, and anyone interested, here's my take on ToW. First, it's SFCX's grand campaign project that was originally devised to try to work around the OP D2 issues. We were going to have mini-campaigns that would reflect various theatres of war at different times, some running at the same time. This way, we could get a number of players for any given race/team represented by not having all empires available in every installment. We could also manage OOB and VCs better with many smaller-scale campaigns that contributed to the larger whole than with one giant open map campaign that runs for a month or more. Short, focused campaigns would keep the DB from getting too messy over time, would force people to concentrate on their VCs right away, and would allow us to squeeze minis in between larger campaigns if people wanted to participate in both.

We let that plan sit on the back burner due to the buggy OP D2 and the fact that many SFCXers were testing SFC3 last summer/fall.

We would like ToW to be a real SFB-type campaign, with its own custom shiplist based directly on SFB material (no invented ships, many corrections to stock shiplist errors, playable Tholians, Andromedans, WYN, and LDR depending on the mini theatre, etc.). The timeline would roughly use the SFB History of the General War as a guide to major events, but it would be allowed to take its own path independent of this history. Hopefully a couple or a few admins could participate by hosting some of the mini campaigns. Players would sign up for their teams, but be allowed to change empires within that team. Team leadership would help us install an order of battle. Volunteers would help police the rules/behavior. Tactical leaders would be free to take control of war plans, though they would also be responsible for reporting VCs or making sure their players do.

This is our current vision of a grand-scale OP campaign. We're not ready for it yet, but if OP holds up under the strain for a couple of campaigns, we could very well start ToW this summer if all the pieces fall into place. Then again, I said that last year, and we never got past the idea stage.

Can-able · « **Reply #35 on:** March 24, 2003, 09:21:22 am »

Firesoul

As long as the Real File name's of the SCR files (Mission names) are on a test server , then i can't see why you can do you script info gathering with ED missions as well , as long as people only know to only reports things relating to the Stock missions.

2 servers is a good idea though

EmeraldEdge · « **Reply #36 on:** March 24, 2003, 09:27:00 am »

Or perhaps a smaller scale campaign first, then once the data is collected, got with another that includes the ED missions.

FPF_TraceyG · « **Reply #37 on:** March 24, 2003, 09:28:42 am »

JD, I'm sure I speak for everyone in saying this. We ALL support OP. We all want to see it work. And furthermore, we all want to see some really good campaigns being played. However, we all have to get along, and I would ask you to reconsider your stance on ignoring everyone else's wishes. Please read the campaign schedule at the top of the D2 forum. The people who have been working on these campaigns have done so arduously and with great effort and time. It is unreasonable to undermine the playerbase and force people to choose between major campaigns as I have outlined in earlier posts. OP and EAW are virtually the same game and I see no reason for rivalry between the two. Cooperation is the key here and if we don't all get along, then we are shooting ourselves in the foot. I cannot stress this enough. Now that the OP patch is out, yes, we'd like to see some OP campaigns in that schedule. But work with the rest of us. Anything else is untenable and not only unfair to the players, but also to the server admins as well. Please don't bully your way and do what you like. I have already discussed with members of SFCX how best we can fit some OP campaigns into the schedule to benefit everyone for the greater good of the community. So please talk to them, in particular Moggie. We want to see everyone gets a fair go and equal treatment. Thankyou.

jdmckinney · « **Reply #39 on:** March 24, 2003, 10:05:48 am »

Tracey, I'm not trying to be advesarial about scheduling. Dizzy is acting like his usual self, and I wanted to lay out all my cards. I have no hidden agenda or desire to step on people's toes. However, I won't lie and say what's not true. Since the days of Rook's Tavern, SFC2.net has had a strong lineup of campaigns that, if we always deferred to them, or Slave Girls, or Triangle, or whatever, would have kept OP without an in-depth tactical campaign for a long, long time. We have tried to get into coordinating schedules in the past only to get put off indefinitely while others fall behind in their timeframes.

The fact is we've championed OP since day one, when most people badmouthed it or gave up. Even when we couldn't do all we wanted to, we still were working behind the scenes to keep OP alive. Why should we let someone else who wasn't there in the trenches with us dictate what we do? If we put up a server now, it will be to test the limits of the test kit while giving OP players a chance to play the game again. I don't see why that can't be done while other campaigns are happening, since ours would not be as intensive a VC campaign, and would not require the same level of commitment from players.

I'm tired of people inventing competition and conflict where there is none. If there are players for the servers, then shouldn't we give them choices? How is the community served by having only one "serious" campaign at a time? If someone doesn't like that campaign's format, they get left out in the cold.

As I said, I'm all for working with other admins, but I don't and won't promise to stick to someone else's schedule that has no input from us. That's just me. The rest of the SFCX crew will probably have more say in the design and running of any campaign we do than I will, and it will be up to the group when and how we run campaigns. If they all feel we can do our thing while working from a schedule that includes EAW and OP campaigns, then I'm all for it. I just don't want to put off what we want to do simply to keep the Dizzies of the world happy, because the truth is they won't be happy anyway.

Tracey, you don't know me, and I don't know you. All I want is to be taken at my word. I am not in competition with anyone here, and wholeheartedly endorse any campaign that comes along, because the more that are run, and the more players we have, the longer this game will survive and even flourish. I still have not looked at any schedules, and nobody from the SFCX group has mentioned any dates or proposals to me at this point. When they do, I will give my input and help the group with whatever it decides.

If you would like to discuss scheduling or plans for D2 in more detail, feel free to email me (if my profile doesn't have my address, let me know). Otherwise, I'd like to get this topic back on course and find out what the players' feedback is for anything we might or might not decide to do.

News:

Topic: SFCX OP Campaign: Your Thoughts? (Polls) (Read 12160 times) var addthis_config = {"data_track_clickback":true};

Dizzy

ZTempest

Dizzy

Dizzy

ZTempest

Dizzy

Cleaven

Mog

Can-able

IndyShark

jdmckinney

jdmckinney

FireSoul

FireSoul

jimmi7769

Can-able

EmeraldEdge

FPF_TraceyG

Kroma_BaSyl

jdmckinney

Topic: SFCX OP Campaign: Your Thoughts? (Polls) (Read 12160 times)