Topic: Any Normal campaigns coming soon?  (Read 8642 times)

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KOTH-Steel Claw

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Re: Any Normal campaigns coming soon?
« Reply #20 on: March 23, 2003, 07:17:40 am »
I would like ot add that maybe hull sizes should be considered. Rattler is having no problems in missions with a frigate or light cruiser sized hull. I am in a CA class hull, major problems. I am going to trade down.

I consider myself a fair pilot. I cannot, however, defeat 3 carriers as a Rom, YET.

My only real issue has been the CTD's in fleet actions. Happens every time.

I will return. Now is a good time.

TOCXOBearslayer

  • Guest
Re: Any Normal campaigns coming soon?
« Reply #21 on: March 23, 2003, 07:23:55 am »
Quote:

Read my above posts...

I know how the missions work thanks...

Lets end the disparaging remarks shall we?  




Read them, re-read them.  Sorry, but they don't bear any resemblance to the missions I have flown on DOE.

Just stating facts from MY oberservations of MY missions.

DH123

  • Guest
Re: Any Normal campaigns coming soon?
« Reply #22 on: March 23, 2003, 10:04:11 am »
Quote:

Re-examine my Tactics??? Read my post more closely and you will see that tactics has nothing to do with 12 HC and 50 + fighters vs 2 light cruisers...Especially when you spawn right beside 5 of them.

I think if you ask some of the regulars on this board, I can handle myself quite well. Anytime you wish to test my "tactics" let me know and we can jump on gspy for a bit of 1v1 (friendly challenge of course)

I wasnt wanting to get into a flame session here. All I am asking is if there will be a normal campaign coming soon for me to look forward to.
   




Ming is a veteran pilot who's tactics are sound.   This should not be questioned.

/Rant on

ED missions suck.   They are always buggier that a hooker hotel and are never resonably balanced.  PvP gets ruined when 20 AI ships and fighters show up to get in the way.   The novelty has worn of, get rid of them.  Now if there were any way the scripts could be STABLY coded so zero AI gets generated when a human opponet is present, I will change my mind.  I play this game mostly for PvP and the ED missions ruin many fights.

All we have seen from custom shiplists is cheese escalation.  AOTK had it's ridiculous PFs and un-balanced BCHV ships and now DOE has carriers galore with with SFB fighters.  I LOVE SFB.  SFB is what got me interested in Star Trek, but SFBish fighters have now business being in theis game.   Taldren was wise in nerfing fighters from SFB.  F-14s are evil, and I'm Fed!  In SFB, F14s were very rare and only carried aboard the CVAs during the General.   We don't have these restrictions in SFC which is why the fighters were nerfed.

Look, I like the idea of customization.   It is good to know that we can expand on this game to make it more than it is.  But the shiplist mods should be aimed to lowere overall cheese and not raise it.  I have Faith in Dizzy and Karnak that their servers will be balanced and fair.  The game should be given back to pilots and not cheesers.

The Shiplist "people" for SFC2.net should be Dogmatix, Mog, Max Power, Cleaven, Die Hard and a few others who though they do not always agree, understand SFB/SFC rules and dynamics and can mod the game without the ridiculous cheese that we've seen from these past 2 servers.
/Rant off

Kroma_BaSyl

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Re: Any Normal campaigns coming soon?
« Reply #23 on: March 23, 2003, 11:23:08 am »
Quote:



Ming is a veteran pilot who's tactics are sound.   This should not be questioned.






DH123 is a veteran whiner who's tactics are unable to adapted to new situations. His access to this forum should not be questioned.

Quote:


All we have seen from custom shiplists is cheese escalation.  AOTK had it's ridiculous PFs and un-balanced BCHV ships and now DOE has carriers galore with with SFB fighters.




You mean not balenced against the line cruiser you prefer to fly. They are balanced against other BCHV's. Next you will be complaining that BCH's aren't balanced against CAs.
Quote:


 I LOVE SFB.  SFB is what got me interested in Star Trek, but SFBish fighters have now business being in theis game.   Taldren was wise in nerfing fighters from SFB.  F-14s are evil, and I'm Fed!  In SFB, F14s were very rare and only carried aboard the CVAs during the General.   We don't have these restrictions in SFC which is why the fighters were nerfed.




You kiss Nanner with that mouth ;-)  Many of the ships that are most often flown by players are rare. Are you  suggesting we nerf the whole shiplist.

We have had CnC for ships in the past why not CnC for fighter loadouts then. Solution are better than whinning.

Quote:


Look, I like the idea of customization.   It is good to know that we can expand on this game to make it more than it is.  But the shiplist mods should be aimed to lowere overall cheese and not raise it.  I have Faith in Dizzy and Karnak that their servers will be balanced and fair.  The game should be given back to pilots and not cheesers.




You really need to start playing GSA then.

I have no doubt you will be whinning about their servers as well. I will bookmark this thread to remind you in the future.

Quote:


The Shiplist "people" for SFC2.net should be Dogmatix, Mog, Max Power, Cleaven, Die Hard and a few others who though they do not always agree, understand SFB/SFC rules and dynamics and can mod the game without the ridiculous cheese that we've seen from these past 2 servers.
 



Funny you only list the people you feel have the same shiplist philosophy as you (and you). Note it is only an opinion that there was a ridiculous amount of cheese on the last two servers, NOT fact. My opinion is that the last two servers have been the most fun to play so far, and I know from what I have heard from others and from the fact that they had very good player turnout that others must feel this way as well.

DH sorry for being so harsh. Just that I feel it is bad taste to blast someone else?s server when you haven't done anything to help bring a server to the community yourself. If you don't like it then don't play.

Curious have you even tried DOE before blasting it? I have been on a lot and have yet to see you there. I certainly hope you have considering your strong opinions of it.

Maybe you should create your own nerfed shiplist server and put your money (or time) where your mouth is, so that we can see just how popular your shiplist philosophy is in practice. I will be sure to play it before I express an opinion of it.

Now STFU....errrr.....I mean have a nice day ;-)

Kroma
 

Ming

  • Guest
Re: Any Normal campaigns coming soon?
« Reply #24 on: March 23, 2003, 12:03:25 pm »
Ugh. The last thing I wanted to do was to turn this thread into a flame one...

Let me explain a little bit more. I have been lurking, Waiting for a D2 Campaign to come out. I see all the commotion on the boards about DOE. (Let me input here i know how much work goes into setting one up, so whatever my opinion, Kudos to Herr Burt to keep SFC2 Alive by dedicating his off time so others can enjoy it!!!)

I download the swaps for the missions/shiplist etc...

I jump online and enter the server. Only 2 of us there(probably why I didnt do a coop....)

I buy a LC right off the bat thinking shouldnt be too bad. Ive done the worst evil dave missions before(PS: Dave were you drinking my sambhuca while scripting again????!)

My first mission was a base defense mission. I enter and with the first 15 seconds my starbase is dead from about 50 fighters with so many f plasmas i cant even see the starbase. This happens while im a good 30+ away. Right beside me are 5 HCs and by the base there were(i really didnt even get a chance to finish cycling through them all) approx 6-7 heavys. The ones about 10 from me launch their fighters and seconds later after no less that 20 F plasmas are heading my way, im toast. No chance to make a ww..No chance to accelerate away, no chance to even charge my weapons. I guess i should mention that my AI ally light cruiser managed to live for a whopping 15 seconds longer than me!!!

For the persons that said change your tactics...

If you can devise a tactic other than alt f-4 in this situation to prevail, Im sure the whole SFC community would love to hear it.

The main reason I posted this thread was to simply ask the question I did. I guess i enjoy just a good ol knife fight vice using fighters or PFs. I dont mind fighting against them(In sane amounts mind you)

I understand that tweaks are being made to the server and am willing to give it another try. Im just not a fan of PFs or fighters hence why you will never see me in a carrier

Anyways enough rambling. Hope this clears up the confusion.  

DH123

  • Guest
Re: Any Normal campaigns coming soon?
« Reply #25 on: March 23, 2003, 12:29:25 pm »
Quote:


Curious have you even tried DOE before blasting it? I have been on a lot and have yet to see you there. I certainly hope you have considering your strong opinions of it.
 




Yes.  I played for about 2 hours as a Romulan.  Nothing but carriers in the hands of the AI.  In on fight in a FHA (I think) I went up against a CVA+, CVS+, and a CVL.   I think I had 2 Sparrowhawks for escorts.  This was typical of the missions I had seen.

You have no choice but to fly a carrier in an environment like this.  None, you will die in anything else.  Carriers and sepcialty ships are supposed to be rare.  

Quote:

We have had CnC for ships in the past why not CnC for fighter loadouts then. Solution are better than whinning.




Good idea.  Is it enforcable?

Quote:

DH123 is a veteran whiner who's tactics are unable to adapted to new situations. His access to this forum should not be questioned.




Remeber how our last battle went oh Liberachi Lizard-boy?   Don't talk to me about adapting tactics.  

Quote:

Now STFU....errrr.....I mean have a nice day ;-)

Kroma




I make you all wet under your Tutu don't I?    

Pharoah

  • Guest
Re: Any Normal campaigns coming soon?
« Reply #26 on: March 23, 2003, 12:40:08 pm »
Ming,

I tried out the ED missions on DOE, and found them to be tough but manageable. However, I did NOT try a base defense. I recall those beastly missions from another server: quite evil.

In the situation you found yourself in, you had no choice but to die. Partly this is due to the fighters, partly to the evilness of the mission itself. Herr Burt is working to redress the carrier issue, and when DOE returns, there should be far fewer of them showing up as AI (unless you run a carrier yourself). This will ease the task significantly. I have flown with and against you before, and have no doubts as to your skill. This was not an 'adapt or die' situation, just a 'die' one

Perhaps, if these missions continue to be impossible, they can be pulled from the queue. If not, then I'm sure they aren't mandatory, so simply avoid them entirely.

Also, to everyone, please realize that as nasty as plas F toting fighters CAN be, they have a blaring weakness. The AI is none to smart about how it fires them. I have watched fighters fire plas F from range 10 at a (quickly) retreating enemy. Getting the AI to release its one and only plasma shot is fairly simple, after which their teeth have been pulled. Just mentioning this for those that didn't now.

DH,

Even though I didn't fly much in AOTK, I have toyed with the shiplist. The plasma PF's that everyone disliked so much are, in reality, no worse then the stock ones. Indeed, I prefer the Rommie CENL to any of the new ones. The 2036 patch made plasma PF's from a joke into an overpowering Juggernaught for the unwarry. Were the BCHV's a bit on the cheddary side? Probably, but the plasma races really had nothing to match the firepower of the other races BCV's (an ever popular ship, seen with some frequency on other, stock servers).

While the ED missions might interefere with PvP some, I have to disagree that they have passed their useful life. The stock missions are, frankly, ridiculously easy. We all recall the reason why Dave was encouraged to toughen them up, don't we? To slow down those races that could turn those stock patrols around in 2 minutes and swamp a slower opponent.

Well, they worked, didn't they?

Yes they are difficult, and often need constant adjustment. But I'll take the increased challange (and risk!) any day of the week. If they are balance with cheaper repair and, perhaps, better PP payoff (or conversely cheaper ships in the CA and under range), then where is the real problem? Herr Burt will be lowering the difficulty and decreasing carrier frequency. This will do wonders for making the missions playable.

As to the idea of using CnC on fighter loadouts, I am all for it. I have tried using the 'carrier size' field in shipedit to see if fighters can be restricted by hull size, but the game doesn't appear to recognize this field as being useful, at least in skirmish mode. Perhaps it would be different on a campaign server. Has this been tried? If not, would some enterprising soul be willing to test it? If it works (or can be made to), that would make CnC a server-side issue, and easily implemented.

Well, thats about enough typing for one sitting. Share and Enjoy!    

Kroma_BaSyl

  • Guest
Re: Any Normal campaigns coming soon?
« Reply #27 on: March 23, 2003, 12:41:36 pm »
Quote:


Yes.  I played for about 2 hours as a Romulan.  Nothing but carriers in the hands of the AI.  In on fight in a FHA (I think) I went up against a CVA+, CVS+, and a CVL.   I think I had 2 Sparrowhawks for escorts.  This was typical of the missions I had seen.

You have no choice but to fly a carrier in an environment like this.  None, you will die in anything else.  Carriers and sepcialty ships are supposed to be rare.  




Agreed, and hopefully the server tweaks will resolve the insane mission matching. My own experience flying Gorn has been that while the missions are hard they are winable. Admittedly I don't have to fight the Fed AI, although I have seen others complaining about flying Fed against the Rom AI as tough, that's just not my experience.

Quote:

We have had CnC for ships in the past why not CnC for fighter loadouts then. Solution are better than whinning.
Quote:


Good idea.  Is it enforcable?







As enforcable as any CnC I would think. I would love to see fighters limited to standard loadout, this would even apply to PF's on other servers (i.e. only one PFL per flottila)
Quote:

DH123 is a veteran whiner who's tactics are unable to adapted to new situations. His access to this forum should not be questioned.
Quote:


Remeber how our last battle went oh Liberachi Lizard-boy?   Don't talk to me about adapting tactics.  

Quote:

Now STFU....errrr.....I mean have a nice day ;-)

Kroma







I make you all wet under your Tutu don't I?    




You know it baby.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 06:00:00 pm by Kroma_BaSyl »

Pharoah

  • Guest
Re: Any Normal campaigns coming soon?
« Reply #28 on: March 23, 2003, 12:53:26 pm »

Quote:

Now STFU....errrr.....I mean have a nice day ;-)

Kroma







I make you all wet under your Tutu don't I?    




You know it baby.  




You two are starting to make me quesy. Get a frickin' room, ya sick bastages!  

DH123

  • Guest
Re: Any Normal campaigns coming soon?
« Reply #29 on: March 23, 2003, 12:59:01 pm »
Quote:


DH,

Even though I didn't fly much in AOTK, I have toyed with the shiplist. The plasma PF's that everyone disliked so much are, in reality, no worse then the stock ones. Indeed, I prefer the Rommie CENL to any of the new ones. The 2036 patch made plasma PF's from a joke into an overpowering Juggernaught for the unwarry. Were the BCHV's a bit on the cheddary side? Probably, but the plasma races really had nothing to match the firepower of the other races BCV's (an ever popular ship, seen with some frequency on other, stock servers).




I have no problems with PFs.  They should come out wepons hot.  This issue in AOTK was the split hardpoints allowed for all the plasma to be fired at the same time instead of 2 torps max as Per SFB.  PFs came out way too ealy.   Having to fight PFs in a CC+ with slow drone is just wrong.  

The BCHV ships came out the same as other races BCH ships.  That was BS, had they come out in 2283 when the BCVs came out the ass-raping would not have been as bad.

Quote:


While the ED missions might interefere with PvP some, I have to disagree that they have passed their useful life. The stock missions are, frankly, ridiculously easy. We all recall the reason why Dave was encouraged to toughen them up, don't we? To slow down those races that could turn those stock patrols around in 2 minutes and swamp a slower opponent.

Well, they worked, didn't they?




No, they did not.  The races/ships that could stomp standard patrols did just as well in with the ED missions.  BPV tweaking can accomplish the same thing and your not ups [censored]'s creek when the missions scripts become un-supported in the middle of a campaign.

Is there anyway the missions can be scripted so that no AI is generated when a human opponent is present?   That would be perfect, fun AI fights and great PvP.   Is this possible with what is known about the scripting?  
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 06:00:00 pm by DH123 »

DH123

  • Guest
Re: Any Normal campaigns coming soon?
« Reply #30 on: March 23, 2003, 01:00:07 pm »
Quote:


Quote:

Now STFU....errrr.....I mean have a nice day ;-)

Kroma







I make you all wet under your Tutu don't I?    




You know it baby.  




You two are starting to make me quesy. Get a frickin' room, ya sick bastages!    




Will you hold the video camera?  

Karnak

  • Guest
Re: Any Normal campaigns coming soon?
« Reply #31 on: March 23, 2003, 01:25:37 pm »
Read this thread and you know why I like to admin my own server.

Now I think some facts need to be pointed out:

To those that tell people stop whining and set up their own server.  Some don't have the skill. Some don't have the means. Some don't have the time.  There are servers that are meant for hard-core players and some servers that are meant for newbie players and those players that  like to have PvP fun.  I think DOE belongs in the former category.  I suppose the players that don't like the hard-core tone could find another fun player to play with, but I would not fault them for "whining".   There will be more PvP friendly server later on.  I am not sure the people who say those server are too easy will not play, because, after all, they attract the most players and get the best reviews.

As for anyone saying DH can't adapt. Goto to BattleClinic.com and see how this Fed took down a Rom PF carrier w/o using any fighters.  Anyone that can take down cheese in a non-cheese ship can wipe the floor with most the pilots that post on this forum with one hand tie behind his back.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 06:00:00 pm by Karnak »

Maxillius

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Re: Any Normal campaigns coming soon?
« Reply #32 on: March 23, 2003, 05:23:58 pm »
Quote:

Read this thread and you know why I like to admin my own server.

Now I think some facts need to be pointed out:

To those that tell people stop whining and set up their own server.  Some don't have the skill. Some don't have the means. Some don't have the time.  There are servers that are meant for hard-core players and some servers that are meant for newbie players and those players that  like to have PvP fun.  I think DOE belongs in the former category.  I suppose the players that don't like the hard-core tone could find another fun player to play with, but I would not fault them for "whining".   There will be more PvP friendly server later on.  I am not sure the people who say those server are too easy will not play, because, after all, they attract the most players and get the best reviews.

As for anyone saying DH can't adapt. Goto to BattleClinic.com and see how this Fed took down a Rom PF carrier w/o using any fighters.  Anyone that can take down cheese in a non-cheese ship can wipe the floor with most the pilots that post on this forum with one hand tie behind his back.  



...and/or no keyboard

Kroma_BaSyl

  • Guest
Re: Any Normal campaigns coming soon?
« Reply #33 on: March 23, 2003, 07:07:22 pm »
Quote:

Read this thread and you know why I like to admin my own server.

Now I think some facts need to be pointed out:

To those that tell people stop whining and set up their own server.  Some don't have the skill. Some don't have the means. Some don't have the time.  There are servers that are meant for hard-core players and some servers that are meant for newbie players and those players that  like to have PvP fun.  I think DOE belongs in the former category.  I suppose the players that don't like the hard-core tone could find another fun player to play with, but I would not fault them for "whining".   There will be more PvP friendly server later on.  I am not sure the people who say those server are too easy will not play, because, after all, they attract the most players and get the best reviews.

As for anyone saying DH can't adapt. Goto to BattleClinic.com and see how this Fed took down a Rom PF carrier w/o using any fighters.  Anyone that can take down cheese in a non-cheese ship can wipe the floor with most the pilots that post on this forum with one hand tie behind his back.  




Sorry Karnak but you completely missed the points:

1) I completely disagree with the fact that just because you don't have the technical skill to setup a server it is ok to whine about others. There are positive contributions that all player can make regardless of their technical skills that don't involve crapping on others hard work. If you don't like something offer alternative suggestions without all the negativity is all.

2) Never said that servers that are hard attract more players than servers that are easy. I was trying to point out that servers that have more cheese (as defined by DH) seem to attract more players than a server that nerfed the shiplist would. If fact an argument could be made that the more cheese in the shiplist in fact makes the server easier. Try a server with line cruisers only and I think you would here more people complaining about how hard it is to kill the AI in their F-CA.

 Kroma

PS, as to DHs adaptability as a pilot, I wasn't talking so much about his flying skills but rather about his adaptability to having fun with other shiplist philosophies. BTW I alway fly with one hand under my tutu.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 06:00:00 pm by Kroma_BaSyl »

DH123

  • Guest
Re: Any Normal campaigns coming soon?
« Reply #34 on: March 23, 2003, 09:16:26 pm »
Quote:



2) Never said that servers that are hard attract more players than servers that are easy. I was trying to point out that servers that have more cheese (as defined by DH) seem to attract more players than a server that nerfed the shiplist would. If fact an argument could be made that the more cheese in the shiplist in fact makes the server easier. Try a server with line cruisers only and I think you would here more people complaining about how hard it is to kill the AI in their F-CA.

 Kroma

 




Did anyone else notice the player drop off between Storm Season and AOTK?  

 

Kroma_BaSyl

  • Guest
Re: Any Normal campaigns coming soon?
« Reply #35 on: March 23, 2003, 10:35:53 pm »
Quote:

Quote:



2) Never said that servers that are hard attract more players than servers that are easy. I was trying to point out that servers that have more cheese (as defined by DH) seem to attract more players than a server that nerfed the shiplist would. If fact an argument could be made that the more cheese in the shiplist in fact makes the server easier. Try a server with line cruisers only and I think you would here more people complaining about how hard it is to kill the AI in their F-CA.

 Kroma

 




Did anyone else notice the player drop off between Storm Season and AOTK?  

   



Time and declining player base have more to do with that than peaople being upset about cheese. Otherwise people would be playing the various stock servers that are usually available. Comparing a server that  was run closer to the release of the game to one that came 2 years after isn't exactly apples to apples. Instead compare AOTK to one of the other stock servers that was running at the same time. Your observation doesn't take into account cause and effect. Maybe the player base has decreased because they got tired of vanilla and didn't bother to check back to see that chocolate was now being served.

Love,
Kroma
XOXOXO
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 06:00:00 pm by Kroma_BaSyl »

Pharoah

  • Guest
Re: Any Normal campaigns coming soon?
« Reply #36 on: March 23, 2003, 10:50:08 pm »
Also, recall that many people were less then ecstatic about the 'Vanilla' server, a little ways before CW6 (iirc). Many people complained that their 'stock' line cruisers couldn't get the job done, and a number of people decided to leave or not participate on that server.

Do I even need to mention 'Frigate Hell'?  

Essentially, every shiplist that has ever been used, from Vanilla, to Vanilla with sprinkles, to the Stock Taldren, to the most massive concentration of cheddar this side of Wisconsin, has been debated, disputed, railed at, ranted about, dissected, reassembled, lost, burned, buried, found, drawn and quartered.

In the end, its about tools. Can you find the 'right' tool for the job in the kit you have? Then grab that 3 handled, moss covered family credunza and start hammerin' away Joe! But if your trying to put in one of those eyeglass screws with a 12 pound sledge, then you may have a genuine problem.

Of course, thats just my opinion, and your's is certainly wrong  

FatherTed

  • Guest
Re: Any Normal campaigns coming soon?
« Reply #37 on: March 23, 2003, 10:51:37 pm »
Before it crashed a few minutes ago, there had to be at least 25-30 people on. I think the difference b/w hard core servers and the fun servers is that a lot of players are actually bored with stock missions and BB-slugfests. As far as the shiplist for a server is concerned, unless something is just plain ridiculous, I like having new and different toys to play with.    

Kroma_BaSyl

  • Guest
Re: Any Normal campaigns coming soon?
« Reply #38 on: March 23, 2003, 10:55:18 pm »
Quote:

Before it crashed a few minutes ago, there had to be at least 25-30 people on. I think the difference b/w hard core servers and the fun servers is that a lot of players are actually bored with stock missions and BB-slugfests. As far as the shiplist for a server is concerned, unless something is just plain ridiculous, I like having new and different toys to play with.      




Amen Father. Now drop and give me 10 Hail Marys.

Kroma_BaSyl

  • Guest
Re: Any Normal campaigns coming soon?
« Reply #39 on: March 23, 2003, 10:57:28 pm »
Quote:



Of course, thats just my opinion, and your's is certainly wrong  



Great sig material there.