Topic: Any Normal campaigns coming soon?  (Read 8582 times)

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Ming

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Any Normal campaigns coming soon?
« on: March 22, 2003, 06:31:13 pm »
This isnt a slag on HBs DOE by any means.

Its just not my cup of tea to fight 12 AI Heavy Cruisers with about 50 fighters that chuck plasma...

Just wondering when there will be a "Normal" campaign that wont be changing the shiplist/fighterlist to make it a pf/fighter fest.

I miss the 1v1 2v2 straight fights that used to dominate.  

Pardek

  • Guest
Re: Any Normal campaigns coming soon?
« Reply #1 on: March 22, 2003, 06:39:30 pm »
i ran a few missons before i was killed, and i agree with what you said Ming.im not going to play on a server with these types of missions in place.sorry but it just seems like work.of course i do no speak for anyone else in my fleet.
« Last Edit: March 22, 2003, 06:40:43 pm by Pardek »

Farfarer

  • Guest
Re: Any Normal campaigns coming soon?
« Reply #2 on: March 22, 2003, 08:21:16 pm »
Hey Ming, have you seen/heard from Skull or BBJ? We are WAY overdue for a Pub night.  

FPF_TraceyG

  • Guest
Re: Any Normal campaigns coming soon?
« Reply #3 on: March 22, 2003, 08:21:52 pm »
If I may make a humble observation, on nearly every campaign that has had custom missions that I've seen so far (IDSL, AOTK) there is always an outcry at the beginning that the server settings are too difficult, the missions too hard etc. Yes, they are harder than the stock missions. Why? Because once we are a few weeks into a campaign, people have found their starship feet again. Everyone is 'rusty' at the beginning of a campaign, but by the end of it, the missions seem too 'easy' and people start complaining that they can't be bothered with another boring AI patrol that offers no challenge.
Its a learning curve and these things take time to settle. If you are finding the mission difficulty 'normal' at the beginning of a campaign, its almost guaranteed it will be far too easy once its been running for awhile. Also, there are a large number of players with different skill levels who play on a server and you can't please everyone. Some will always say its too hard and some will always say its too easy. Regardless, however, it should be enjoyable, nonetheless. All I say is, give it a chance, try to see if you can find ways to beat those 'difficult' missions, its a strategy game after all, not just a 3D shootemup. At the end of the day, the true measure of success is if you've had fun or not, nothing else. If it becomes work for you, then by all means, dont play. But winning all the time isnt much fun either. Just my thoughts on the subject, hope no one is offended by anything I've said.

Dizzy

  • Guest
Re: Any Normal campaigns coming soon?
« Reply #4 on: March 22, 2003, 08:51:57 pm »
SG3 is about as 'normal' as they come. Standard F&E alliances and map setup. Minor tweaks to the shiplist, with very few ships added.

SG3 is gonna be a big mainstream server with hopefully high player numbers.

There are 4x VC locations to make PvP very hot.

Other than that, ck out the SG3 thread on sfc2.net. Mb look up all my posts I started on this forum for more info. There is a roleplay story and more info on sfc2.net here: http://www.bozobits.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=1744&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=0

Ming

  • Guest
Re: Any Normal campaigns coming soon?
« Reply #5 on: March 22, 2003, 09:09:07 pm »
Agreed Pardek.

Far: Hey. Havent spoke with BBJ/Skull in quite some time. Dont even know if they are still around to be honest.

Tracey: Well Tracey its not that i dont mind the challenge. I quite enjoy a good fight. However when it all boils down to a pf/fighter fest, Ill leave my captains chair at home. I think there is a fine line between a tough match and insanity. with a light cruiser and with 1 light cruiser as an ally, going up against 12 HC with so many fighters it took me a full minute to cycle through the target list....
Im not a bad pilot and i can handle most sane situations and even some borderline insane missions(BBJ knows what im talking about here...). I guess i just wanted to find a campaign that wasnt over the top(IMO only..)

Dizzy: Good to see your still around. Look forward to SG 3!

Anyways as I stated earlier this wasnt a point the finger post, It was intended to ask the question as im itching to fly.
 

**DONOTDELETE**

  • Guest
Re: Any Normal campaigns coming soon?
« Reply #6 on: March 22, 2003, 10:27:52 pm »
Quote:

If I may make a humble observation, on nearly every campaign that has had custom missions that I've seen so far (IDSL, AOTK) there is always an outcry at the beginning that the server settings are too difficult, the missions too hard etc. Yes, they are harder than the stock missions. Why? Because once we are a few weeks into a campaign, people have found their starship feet again. Everyone is 'rusty' at the beginning of a campaign, but by the end of it, the missions seem too 'easy' and people start complaining that they can't be bothered with another boring AI patrol that offers no challenge.
Its a learning curve and these things take time to settle. If you are finding the mission difficulty 'normal' at the beginning of a campaign, its almost guaranteed it will be far too easy once its been running for awhile. Also, there are a large number of players with different skill levels who play on a server and you can't please everyone. Some will always say its too hard and some will always say its too easy. Regardless, however, it should be enjoyable, nonetheless. All I say is, give it a chance, try to see if you can find ways to beat those 'difficult' missions, its a strategy game after all, not just a 3D shootemup. At the end of the day, the true measure of success is if you've had fun or not, nothing else. If it becomes work for you, then by all means, dont play. But winning all the time isnt much fun either. Just my thoughts on the subject, hope no one is offended by anything I've said.  




Tracy...May I also remind you that many of those missions where WAY too hard even for vets......thus,the reason they were toned down a bit or even removed....

If it becomes work for  everyone then it wont be played much...

FPF_TraceyG

  • Guest
Re: Any Normal campaigns coming soon?
« Reply #7 on: March 22, 2003, 10:37:14 pm »
I agree Crimnick, if its no fun for anyone, then, yes, you change things, part and parcel of testing things to see what is fun and what isnt and finding the best balance. I guess, what I'm saying is don't give up on things just yet...

Pardek

  • Guest
Re: Any Normal campaigns coming soon?
« Reply #8 on: March 22, 2003, 10:48:14 pm »
well the way i see it missions are a way to make PP.back on some really good servers we all started a fair distance apart, ran missoins built up our empire and evenually meet up with you nearest enemy.thats where the fun starts pvp!its just what i like, heck i would like a stock shiplist and all empires with one homeworld!


  no flames please
 

FPF_TraceyG

  • Guest
Re: Any Normal campaigns coming soon?
« Reply #9 on: March 22, 2003, 10:53:02 pm »
he he, well, 7.25 was a stock shiplist and just one homeworld per race, and no one played it...  
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 06:00:00 pm by Tracey Greenough »

Dizzy

  • Guest
Re: Any Normal campaigns coming soon?
« Reply #10 on: March 22, 2003, 11:00:10 pm »
I didnt hear anyone complain that 7.25 sucked, Tracey... I just never really saw it advertised.

Ming

  • Guest
Re: Any Normal campaigns coming soon?
« Reply #11 on: March 22, 2003, 11:03:22 pm »
Agree with Pardek 110% on that. If there was a stock shiplist campaign going, I was there!  

**DONOTDELETE**

  • Guest
Re: Any Normal campaigns coming soon?
« Reply #12 on: March 22, 2003, 11:17:26 pm »
My favorite campaign thus far has been AOTK....I even liked the Evil dave missions......just not in every hex..heh

Karnak

  • Guest
Re: Any Normal campaigns coming soon?
« Reply #13 on: March 22, 2003, 11:51:55 pm »
www.gfluniverse.net/d2/

No funny stuff...no ultra-hard missions like first two weeks of AOTK debacle...no monster mash in the center of the map...no loan sharking on the spare parts.  Just cream them Feds the old fashion way.  Or, run over them Klinks  and leave  a blue streak on their back.  

Of course, then there are those Frogs...  

TOCXOBearslayer

  • Guest
Re: Any Normal campaigns coming soon?
« Reply #14 on: March 23, 2003, 12:25:32 am »
ya know... when I see these posts... I don't know if I should laugh at the posters... or get angry with the host....

Yeah, I don't like being raked over the coals for spares or told, "sure you can fly escorts" only to find that they are defanged....

But then I look at the other side....

The missions are too hard?   ROFL.... yes, they are supposed to be....

But have you tried Cooping?  

I lost my first mission.  Lost my second mission..... won my next 3 then hooked up with TraceyG.  We went on to trash a LOT of opposition.  (though that neutral co-op bug stopped us from claiming territory)

And we did quite well as a team until we ventured into Tholian space.  (Burt, those things are just MEAN!!!)  So we ended up running away... we lost 2 of 3 or 3 of 4 missions against the Tholians (we won the one where you have to read the observation post)

But we are better pilots for our efforts.  I think you need to re-examine your tactics.   This is NOT a server where you can go willy nilly on your own.

It will result in a quick death.  So make your choice....  But I can assure you, those who stick around for this server will be better pilots for it.

KATChuutRitt

  • Guest
Re: Any Normal campaigns coming soon?
« Reply #15 on: March 23, 2003, 12:28:47 am »
I belive Herr Burt is making changes to the settings currently, I'd advise waiting and seeing what the server looks like after the changes.    I will reserve my judgements until then.

Ming

  • Guest
Re: Any Normal campaigns coming soon?
« Reply #16 on: March 23, 2003, 12:34:48 am »
Re-examine my Tactics??? Read my post more closely and you will see that tactics has nothing to do with 12 HC and 50 + fighters vs 2 light cruisers...Especially when you spawn right beside 5 of them.

I think if you ask some of the regulars on this board, I can handle myself quite well. Anytime you wish to test my "tactics" let me know and we can jump on gspy for a bit of 1v1 (friendly challenge of course)

I wasnt wanting to get into a flame session here. All I am asking is if there will be a normal campaign coming soon for me to look forward to.
 

TOCXOBearslayer

  • Guest
Re: Any Normal campaigns coming soon?
« Reply #17 on: March 23, 2003, 12:43:40 am »
How many ships were your flying? Two? Three?

If you were, then that is your fault.  Examine your tacitcs.  If you have 3 ships... it brings THREE TIMES as many enemies.

If you had ONE ship and were bringing TWELVE HC's into a fight with you, then you are running a different mission pack than I am.  

B/c after running over 20 missions on the DOE test server last nigh, I never saw that many ships.  But I always had about a  4 to 1 ratio of AI enemies.  

 

Ming

  • Guest
Re: Any Normal campaigns coming soon?
« Reply #18 on: March 23, 2003, 01:52:31 am »
Read my above posts...

I know how the missions work thanks...

Lets end the disparaging remarks shall we?  

Mog

  • Guest
Re: Any Normal campaigns coming soon?
« Reply #19 on: March 23, 2003, 04:32:44 am »
Well, the very brief time I've spent with these missions, they haven't been too hard at all. It does help if you play patiently and not charge right in to mix it up. The over-anbundance of carriers does sound a problem, and it also sounds like Herr Burt is going to try and fix that. For me, it certainly has not been as hard as 4 Powers - at least we are now in ships that have been designed for the War. Play patiently and you will succeed.

KOTH-Steel Claw

  • Guest
Re: Any Normal campaigns coming soon?
« Reply #20 on: March 23, 2003, 07:17:40 am »
I would like ot add that maybe hull sizes should be considered. Rattler is having no problems in missions with a frigate or light cruiser sized hull. I am in a CA class hull, major problems. I am going to trade down.

I consider myself a fair pilot. I cannot, however, defeat 3 carriers as a Rom, YET.

My only real issue has been the CTD's in fleet actions. Happens every time.

I will return. Now is a good time.

TOCXOBearslayer

  • Guest
Re: Any Normal campaigns coming soon?
« Reply #21 on: March 23, 2003, 07:23:55 am »
Quote:

Read my above posts...

I know how the missions work thanks...

Lets end the disparaging remarks shall we?  




Read them, re-read them.  Sorry, but they don't bear any resemblance to the missions I have flown on DOE.

Just stating facts from MY oberservations of MY missions.

DH123

  • Guest
Re: Any Normal campaigns coming soon?
« Reply #22 on: March 23, 2003, 10:04:11 am »
Quote:

Re-examine my Tactics??? Read my post more closely and you will see that tactics has nothing to do with 12 HC and 50 + fighters vs 2 light cruisers...Especially when you spawn right beside 5 of them.

I think if you ask some of the regulars on this board, I can handle myself quite well. Anytime you wish to test my "tactics" let me know and we can jump on gspy for a bit of 1v1 (friendly challenge of course)

I wasnt wanting to get into a flame session here. All I am asking is if there will be a normal campaign coming soon for me to look forward to.
   




Ming is a veteran pilot who's tactics are sound.   This should not be questioned.

/Rant on

ED missions suck.   They are always buggier that a hooker hotel and are never resonably balanced.  PvP gets ruined when 20 AI ships and fighters show up to get in the way.   The novelty has worn of, get rid of them.  Now if there were any way the scripts could be STABLY coded so zero AI gets generated when a human opponet is present, I will change my mind.  I play this game mostly for PvP and the ED missions ruin many fights.

All we have seen from custom shiplists is cheese escalation.  AOTK had it's ridiculous PFs and un-balanced BCHV ships and now DOE has carriers galore with with SFB fighters.  I LOVE SFB.  SFB is what got me interested in Star Trek, but SFBish fighters have now business being in theis game.   Taldren was wise in nerfing fighters from SFB.  F-14s are evil, and I'm Fed!  In SFB, F14s were very rare and only carried aboard the CVAs during the General.   We don't have these restrictions in SFC which is why the fighters were nerfed.

Look, I like the idea of customization.   It is good to know that we can expand on this game to make it more than it is.  But the shiplist mods should be aimed to lowere overall cheese and not raise it.  I have Faith in Dizzy and Karnak that their servers will be balanced and fair.  The game should be given back to pilots and not cheesers.

The Shiplist "people" for SFC2.net should be Dogmatix, Mog, Max Power, Cleaven, Die Hard and a few others who though they do not always agree, understand SFB/SFC rules and dynamics and can mod the game without the ridiculous cheese that we've seen from these past 2 servers.
/Rant off

Kroma_BaSyl

  • Guest
Re: Any Normal campaigns coming soon?
« Reply #23 on: March 23, 2003, 11:23:08 am »
Quote:



Ming is a veteran pilot who's tactics are sound.   This should not be questioned.






DH123 is a veteran whiner who's tactics are unable to adapted to new situations. His access to this forum should not be questioned.

Quote:


All we have seen from custom shiplists is cheese escalation.  AOTK had it's ridiculous PFs and un-balanced BCHV ships and now DOE has carriers galore with with SFB fighters.




You mean not balenced against the line cruiser you prefer to fly. They are balanced against other BCHV's. Next you will be complaining that BCH's aren't balanced against CAs.
Quote:


 I LOVE SFB.  SFB is what got me interested in Star Trek, but SFBish fighters have now business being in theis game.   Taldren was wise in nerfing fighters from SFB.  F-14s are evil, and I'm Fed!  In SFB, F14s were very rare and only carried aboard the CVAs during the General.   We don't have these restrictions in SFC which is why the fighters were nerfed.




You kiss Nanner with that mouth ;-)  Many of the ships that are most often flown by players are rare. Are you  suggesting we nerf the whole shiplist.

We have had CnC for ships in the past why not CnC for fighter loadouts then. Solution are better than whinning.

Quote:


Look, I like the idea of customization.   It is good to know that we can expand on this game to make it more than it is.  But the shiplist mods should be aimed to lowere overall cheese and not raise it.  I have Faith in Dizzy and Karnak that their servers will be balanced and fair.  The game should be given back to pilots and not cheesers.




You really need to start playing GSA then.

I have no doubt you will be whinning about their servers as well. I will bookmark this thread to remind you in the future.

Quote:


The Shiplist "people" for SFC2.net should be Dogmatix, Mog, Max Power, Cleaven, Die Hard and a few others who though they do not always agree, understand SFB/SFC rules and dynamics and can mod the game without the ridiculous cheese that we've seen from these past 2 servers.
 



Funny you only list the people you feel have the same shiplist philosophy as you (and you). Note it is only an opinion that there was a ridiculous amount of cheese on the last two servers, NOT fact. My opinion is that the last two servers have been the most fun to play so far, and I know from what I have heard from others and from the fact that they had very good player turnout that others must feel this way as well.

DH sorry for being so harsh. Just that I feel it is bad taste to blast someone else?s server when you haven't done anything to help bring a server to the community yourself. If you don't like it then don't play.

Curious have you even tried DOE before blasting it? I have been on a lot and have yet to see you there. I certainly hope you have considering your strong opinions of it.

Maybe you should create your own nerfed shiplist server and put your money (or time) where your mouth is, so that we can see just how popular your shiplist philosophy is in practice. I will be sure to play it before I express an opinion of it.

Now STFU....errrr.....I mean have a nice day ;-)

Kroma
 

Ming

  • Guest
Re: Any Normal campaigns coming soon?
« Reply #24 on: March 23, 2003, 12:03:25 pm »
Ugh. The last thing I wanted to do was to turn this thread into a flame one...

Let me explain a little bit more. I have been lurking, Waiting for a D2 Campaign to come out. I see all the commotion on the boards about DOE. (Let me input here i know how much work goes into setting one up, so whatever my opinion, Kudos to Herr Burt to keep SFC2 Alive by dedicating his off time so others can enjoy it!!!)

I download the swaps for the missions/shiplist etc...

I jump online and enter the server. Only 2 of us there(probably why I didnt do a coop....)

I buy a LC right off the bat thinking shouldnt be too bad. Ive done the worst evil dave missions before(PS: Dave were you drinking my sambhuca while scripting again????!)

My first mission was a base defense mission. I enter and with the first 15 seconds my starbase is dead from about 50 fighters with so many f plasmas i cant even see the starbase. This happens while im a good 30+ away. Right beside me are 5 HCs and by the base there were(i really didnt even get a chance to finish cycling through them all) approx 6-7 heavys. The ones about 10 from me launch their fighters and seconds later after no less that 20 F plasmas are heading my way, im toast. No chance to make a ww..No chance to accelerate away, no chance to even charge my weapons. I guess i should mention that my AI ally light cruiser managed to live for a whopping 15 seconds longer than me!!!

For the persons that said change your tactics...

If you can devise a tactic other than alt f-4 in this situation to prevail, Im sure the whole SFC community would love to hear it.

The main reason I posted this thread was to simply ask the question I did. I guess i enjoy just a good ol knife fight vice using fighters or PFs. I dont mind fighting against them(In sane amounts mind you)

I understand that tweaks are being made to the server and am willing to give it another try. Im just not a fan of PFs or fighters hence why you will never see me in a carrier

Anyways enough rambling. Hope this clears up the confusion.  

DH123

  • Guest
Re: Any Normal campaigns coming soon?
« Reply #25 on: March 23, 2003, 12:29:25 pm »
Quote:


Curious have you even tried DOE before blasting it? I have been on a lot and have yet to see you there. I certainly hope you have considering your strong opinions of it.
 




Yes.  I played for about 2 hours as a Romulan.  Nothing but carriers in the hands of the AI.  In on fight in a FHA (I think) I went up against a CVA+, CVS+, and a CVL.   I think I had 2 Sparrowhawks for escorts.  This was typical of the missions I had seen.

You have no choice but to fly a carrier in an environment like this.  None, you will die in anything else.  Carriers and sepcialty ships are supposed to be rare.  

Quote:

We have had CnC for ships in the past why not CnC for fighter loadouts then. Solution are better than whinning.




Good idea.  Is it enforcable?

Quote:

DH123 is a veteran whiner who's tactics are unable to adapted to new situations. His access to this forum should not be questioned.




Remeber how our last battle went oh Liberachi Lizard-boy?   Don't talk to me about adapting tactics.  

Quote:

Now STFU....errrr.....I mean have a nice day ;-)

Kroma




I make you all wet under your Tutu don't I?    

Pharoah

  • Guest
Re: Any Normal campaigns coming soon?
« Reply #26 on: March 23, 2003, 12:40:08 pm »
Ming,

I tried out the ED missions on DOE, and found them to be tough but manageable. However, I did NOT try a base defense. I recall those beastly missions from another server: quite evil.

In the situation you found yourself in, you had no choice but to die. Partly this is due to the fighters, partly to the evilness of the mission itself. Herr Burt is working to redress the carrier issue, and when DOE returns, there should be far fewer of them showing up as AI (unless you run a carrier yourself). This will ease the task significantly. I have flown with and against you before, and have no doubts as to your skill. This was not an 'adapt or die' situation, just a 'die' one

Perhaps, if these missions continue to be impossible, they can be pulled from the queue. If not, then I'm sure they aren't mandatory, so simply avoid them entirely.

Also, to everyone, please realize that as nasty as plas F toting fighters CAN be, they have a blaring weakness. The AI is none to smart about how it fires them. I have watched fighters fire plas F from range 10 at a (quickly) retreating enemy. Getting the AI to release its one and only plasma shot is fairly simple, after which their teeth have been pulled. Just mentioning this for those that didn't now.

DH,

Even though I didn't fly much in AOTK, I have toyed with the shiplist. The plasma PF's that everyone disliked so much are, in reality, no worse then the stock ones. Indeed, I prefer the Rommie CENL to any of the new ones. The 2036 patch made plasma PF's from a joke into an overpowering Juggernaught for the unwarry. Were the BCHV's a bit on the cheddary side? Probably, but the plasma races really had nothing to match the firepower of the other races BCV's (an ever popular ship, seen with some frequency on other, stock servers).

While the ED missions might interefere with PvP some, I have to disagree that they have passed their useful life. The stock missions are, frankly, ridiculously easy. We all recall the reason why Dave was encouraged to toughen them up, don't we? To slow down those races that could turn those stock patrols around in 2 minutes and swamp a slower opponent.

Well, they worked, didn't they?

Yes they are difficult, and often need constant adjustment. But I'll take the increased challange (and risk!) any day of the week. If they are balance with cheaper repair and, perhaps, better PP payoff (or conversely cheaper ships in the CA and under range), then where is the real problem? Herr Burt will be lowering the difficulty and decreasing carrier frequency. This will do wonders for making the missions playable.

As to the idea of using CnC on fighter loadouts, I am all for it. I have tried using the 'carrier size' field in shipedit to see if fighters can be restricted by hull size, but the game doesn't appear to recognize this field as being useful, at least in skirmish mode. Perhaps it would be different on a campaign server. Has this been tried? If not, would some enterprising soul be willing to test it? If it works (or can be made to), that would make CnC a server-side issue, and easily implemented.

Well, thats about enough typing for one sitting. Share and Enjoy!    

Kroma_BaSyl

  • Guest
Re: Any Normal campaigns coming soon?
« Reply #27 on: March 23, 2003, 12:41:36 pm »
Quote:


Yes.  I played for about 2 hours as a Romulan.  Nothing but carriers in the hands of the AI.  In on fight in a FHA (I think) I went up against a CVA+, CVS+, and a CVL.   I think I had 2 Sparrowhawks for escorts.  This was typical of the missions I had seen.

You have no choice but to fly a carrier in an environment like this.  None, you will die in anything else.  Carriers and sepcialty ships are supposed to be rare.  




Agreed, and hopefully the server tweaks will resolve the insane mission matching. My own experience flying Gorn has been that while the missions are hard they are winable. Admittedly I don't have to fight the Fed AI, although I have seen others complaining about flying Fed against the Rom AI as tough, that's just not my experience.

Quote:

We have had CnC for ships in the past why not CnC for fighter loadouts then. Solution are better than whinning.
Quote:


Good idea.  Is it enforcable?







As enforcable as any CnC I would think. I would love to see fighters limited to standard loadout, this would even apply to PF's on other servers (i.e. only one PFL per flottila)
Quote:

DH123 is a veteran whiner who's tactics are unable to adapted to new situations. His access to this forum should not be questioned.
Quote:


Remeber how our last battle went oh Liberachi Lizard-boy?   Don't talk to me about adapting tactics.  

Quote:

Now STFU....errrr.....I mean have a nice day ;-)

Kroma







I make you all wet under your Tutu don't I?    




You know it baby.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 06:00:00 pm by Kroma_BaSyl »

Pharoah

  • Guest
Re: Any Normal campaigns coming soon?
« Reply #28 on: March 23, 2003, 12:53:26 pm »

Quote:

Now STFU....errrr.....I mean have a nice day ;-)

Kroma







I make you all wet under your Tutu don't I?    




You know it baby.  




You two are starting to make me quesy. Get a frickin' room, ya sick bastages!  

DH123

  • Guest
Re: Any Normal campaigns coming soon?
« Reply #29 on: March 23, 2003, 12:59:01 pm »
Quote:


DH,

Even though I didn't fly much in AOTK, I have toyed with the shiplist. The plasma PF's that everyone disliked so much are, in reality, no worse then the stock ones. Indeed, I prefer the Rommie CENL to any of the new ones. The 2036 patch made plasma PF's from a joke into an overpowering Juggernaught for the unwarry. Were the BCHV's a bit on the cheddary side? Probably, but the plasma races really had nothing to match the firepower of the other races BCV's (an ever popular ship, seen with some frequency on other, stock servers).




I have no problems with PFs.  They should come out wepons hot.  This issue in AOTK was the split hardpoints allowed for all the plasma to be fired at the same time instead of 2 torps max as Per SFB.  PFs came out way too ealy.   Having to fight PFs in a CC+ with slow drone is just wrong.  

The BCHV ships came out the same as other races BCH ships.  That was BS, had they come out in 2283 when the BCVs came out the ass-raping would not have been as bad.

Quote:


While the ED missions might interefere with PvP some, I have to disagree that they have passed their useful life. The stock missions are, frankly, ridiculously easy. We all recall the reason why Dave was encouraged to toughen them up, don't we? To slow down those races that could turn those stock patrols around in 2 minutes and swamp a slower opponent.

Well, they worked, didn't they?




No, they did not.  The races/ships that could stomp standard patrols did just as well in with the ED missions.  BPV tweaking can accomplish the same thing and your not ups [censored]'s creek when the missions scripts become un-supported in the middle of a campaign.

Is there anyway the missions can be scripted so that no AI is generated when a human opponent is present?   That would be perfect, fun AI fights and great PvP.   Is this possible with what is known about the scripting?  
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 06:00:00 pm by DH123 »

DH123

  • Guest
Re: Any Normal campaigns coming soon?
« Reply #30 on: March 23, 2003, 01:00:07 pm »
Quote:


Quote:

Now STFU....errrr.....I mean have a nice day ;-)

Kroma







I make you all wet under your Tutu don't I?    




You know it baby.  




You two are starting to make me quesy. Get a frickin' room, ya sick bastages!    




Will you hold the video camera?  

Karnak

  • Guest
Re: Any Normal campaigns coming soon?
« Reply #31 on: March 23, 2003, 01:25:37 pm »
Read this thread and you know why I like to admin my own server.

Now I think some facts need to be pointed out:

To those that tell people stop whining and set up their own server.  Some don't have the skill. Some don't have the means. Some don't have the time.  There are servers that are meant for hard-core players and some servers that are meant for newbie players and those players that  like to have PvP fun.  I think DOE belongs in the former category.  I suppose the players that don't like the hard-core tone could find another fun player to play with, but I would not fault them for "whining".   There will be more PvP friendly server later on.  I am not sure the people who say those server are too easy will not play, because, after all, they attract the most players and get the best reviews.

As for anyone saying DH can't adapt. Goto to BattleClinic.com and see how this Fed took down a Rom PF carrier w/o using any fighters.  Anyone that can take down cheese in a non-cheese ship can wipe the floor with most the pilots that post on this forum with one hand tie behind his back.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 06:00:00 pm by Karnak »

Maxillius

  • Guest
Re: Any Normal campaigns coming soon?
« Reply #32 on: March 23, 2003, 05:23:58 pm »
Quote:

Read this thread and you know why I like to admin my own server.

Now I think some facts need to be pointed out:

To those that tell people stop whining and set up their own server.  Some don't have the skill. Some don't have the means. Some don't have the time.  There are servers that are meant for hard-core players and some servers that are meant for newbie players and those players that  like to have PvP fun.  I think DOE belongs in the former category.  I suppose the players that don't like the hard-core tone could find another fun player to play with, but I would not fault them for "whining".   There will be more PvP friendly server later on.  I am not sure the people who say those server are too easy will not play, because, after all, they attract the most players and get the best reviews.

As for anyone saying DH can't adapt. Goto to BattleClinic.com and see how this Fed took down a Rom PF carrier w/o using any fighters.  Anyone that can take down cheese in a non-cheese ship can wipe the floor with most the pilots that post on this forum with one hand tie behind his back.  



...and/or no keyboard

Kroma_BaSyl

  • Guest
Re: Any Normal campaigns coming soon?
« Reply #33 on: March 23, 2003, 07:07:22 pm »
Quote:

Read this thread and you know why I like to admin my own server.

Now I think some facts need to be pointed out:

To those that tell people stop whining and set up their own server.  Some don't have the skill. Some don't have the means. Some don't have the time.  There are servers that are meant for hard-core players and some servers that are meant for newbie players and those players that  like to have PvP fun.  I think DOE belongs in the former category.  I suppose the players that don't like the hard-core tone could find another fun player to play with, but I would not fault them for "whining".   There will be more PvP friendly server later on.  I am not sure the people who say those server are too easy will not play, because, after all, they attract the most players and get the best reviews.

As for anyone saying DH can't adapt. Goto to BattleClinic.com and see how this Fed took down a Rom PF carrier w/o using any fighters.  Anyone that can take down cheese in a non-cheese ship can wipe the floor with most the pilots that post on this forum with one hand tie behind his back.  




Sorry Karnak but you completely missed the points:

1) I completely disagree with the fact that just because you don't have the technical skill to setup a server it is ok to whine about others. There are positive contributions that all player can make regardless of their technical skills that don't involve crapping on others hard work. If you don't like something offer alternative suggestions without all the negativity is all.

2) Never said that servers that are hard attract more players than servers that are easy. I was trying to point out that servers that have more cheese (as defined by DH) seem to attract more players than a server that nerfed the shiplist would. If fact an argument could be made that the more cheese in the shiplist in fact makes the server easier. Try a server with line cruisers only and I think you would here more people complaining about how hard it is to kill the AI in their F-CA.

 Kroma

PS, as to DHs adaptability as a pilot, I wasn't talking so much about his flying skills but rather about his adaptability to having fun with other shiplist philosophies. BTW I alway fly with one hand under my tutu.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 06:00:00 pm by Kroma_BaSyl »

DH123

  • Guest
Re: Any Normal campaigns coming soon?
« Reply #34 on: March 23, 2003, 09:16:26 pm »
Quote:



2) Never said that servers that are hard attract more players than servers that are easy. I was trying to point out that servers that have more cheese (as defined by DH) seem to attract more players than a server that nerfed the shiplist would. If fact an argument could be made that the more cheese in the shiplist in fact makes the server easier. Try a server with line cruisers only and I think you would here more people complaining about how hard it is to kill the AI in their F-CA.

 Kroma

 




Did anyone else notice the player drop off between Storm Season and AOTK?  

 

Kroma_BaSyl

  • Guest
Re: Any Normal campaigns coming soon?
« Reply #35 on: March 23, 2003, 10:35:53 pm »
Quote:

Quote:



2) Never said that servers that are hard attract more players than servers that are easy. I was trying to point out that servers that have more cheese (as defined by DH) seem to attract more players than a server that nerfed the shiplist would. If fact an argument could be made that the more cheese in the shiplist in fact makes the server easier. Try a server with line cruisers only and I think you would here more people complaining about how hard it is to kill the AI in their F-CA.

 Kroma

 




Did anyone else notice the player drop off between Storm Season and AOTK?  

   



Time and declining player base have more to do with that than peaople being upset about cheese. Otherwise people would be playing the various stock servers that are usually available. Comparing a server that  was run closer to the release of the game to one that came 2 years after isn't exactly apples to apples. Instead compare AOTK to one of the other stock servers that was running at the same time. Your observation doesn't take into account cause and effect. Maybe the player base has decreased because they got tired of vanilla and didn't bother to check back to see that chocolate was now being served.

Love,
Kroma
XOXOXO
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 06:00:00 pm by Kroma_BaSyl »

Pharoah

  • Guest
Re: Any Normal campaigns coming soon?
« Reply #36 on: March 23, 2003, 10:50:08 pm »
Also, recall that many people were less then ecstatic about the 'Vanilla' server, a little ways before CW6 (iirc). Many people complained that their 'stock' line cruisers couldn't get the job done, and a number of people decided to leave or not participate on that server.

Do I even need to mention 'Frigate Hell'?  

Essentially, every shiplist that has ever been used, from Vanilla, to Vanilla with sprinkles, to the Stock Taldren, to the most massive concentration of cheddar this side of Wisconsin, has been debated, disputed, railed at, ranted about, dissected, reassembled, lost, burned, buried, found, drawn and quartered.

In the end, its about tools. Can you find the 'right' tool for the job in the kit you have? Then grab that 3 handled, moss covered family credunza and start hammerin' away Joe! But if your trying to put in one of those eyeglass screws with a 12 pound sledge, then you may have a genuine problem.

Of course, thats just my opinion, and your's is certainly wrong  

FatherTed

  • Guest
Re: Any Normal campaigns coming soon?
« Reply #37 on: March 23, 2003, 10:51:37 pm »
Before it crashed a few minutes ago, there had to be at least 25-30 people on. I think the difference b/w hard core servers and the fun servers is that a lot of players are actually bored with stock missions and BB-slugfests. As far as the shiplist for a server is concerned, unless something is just plain ridiculous, I like having new and different toys to play with.    

Kroma_BaSyl

  • Guest
Re: Any Normal campaigns coming soon?
« Reply #38 on: March 23, 2003, 10:55:18 pm »
Quote:

Before it crashed a few minutes ago, there had to be at least 25-30 people on. I think the difference b/w hard core servers and the fun servers is that a lot of players are actually bored with stock missions and BB-slugfests. As far as the shiplist for a server is concerned, unless something is just plain ridiculous, I like having new and different toys to play with.      




Amen Father. Now drop and give me 10 Hail Marys.

Kroma_BaSyl

  • Guest
Re: Any Normal campaigns coming soon?
« Reply #39 on: March 23, 2003, 10:57:28 pm »
Quote:



Of course, thats just my opinion, and your's is certainly wrong  



Great sig material there.

Holocat

  • Guest
Re: Any Normal campaigns coming soon?
« Reply #40 on: March 24, 2003, 12:26:53 am »
ABOARD THE S.S. Doomed:

Comm. Ming:  Ah, base distress signal.  Begin powering up our ship from drylock and tell the station commander that the situation will be under control shortly.

Lt. Holocat:  We can't commodore.

Comm. Ming:  Why not?

Lt. Holocat:  The base has been utterly obliterated commodore.  No survivors.

An dark look passed accross Ming's features:  And how do you know that?  We haven't gotten through our sensor cycling yet.  I haven't even declared red alert yet!

Lt. Holocat: Drunk crewman in the observation deck reported commodore.  Plas-F fighter swarmed.  Several heavy cruisers as well.

Comm. Ming: Well, at least we can try to get a signal off.  Have our sensors come on line yet?

Lt. Holocat: Yessir.  Several contacts at medium close range.  Fighter groups detected.  20+ Plas-F incoming, this vessel targeted.

Comm. Ming:  Do we have a wild weasel?

Lt. Holocat:  Shuttle bay's still clearing all their empty beer bottles off the launch pad sir.

Comm. Ming:  Engines?

Lt. Holocat:  Still warming up sir.

Comm. Ming: Shields?

Lt. Holocat:  Against 20 Plas-F's?  Sir?

Comm. Ming:  Yes?

Lt. Holocat:  What do we do?

A little orange eyepiece flicks infront of the commodore's eye, a la "The Last Starfighter.":  We die.

The incandescent orange fireball lit up space briefly and was no more, the program deleting the polygons after they had moved some distance from vision to save on processing time.


A small black cat got up off the floor and hopped onto a chair arm.  "What'cha up to?"  The inquisitive cat asked.

Ming looked at the intruder for a moment, not knowing were it came from.  However, as the cat was the one making up the psudeo story, Ming quickly forgot this.  "I'm posting to the forums about the difficulty in DoE and asking when a 'normal' server will be up.  There, just finished."

The cat looked to it's left and touched Ming's desk, causing an oddly shaped starship monitor to spring from the desk, next to the computer.

"Where'd you get that?"  Ming asked.

"This?  Oh, it's a plot device.  Ignore it."

"Alright..." Ming cautiously replied.

"Anyway, it says on this monitor that--"

"Wait."  Ming said suddenly.

The small grey cat started, hopping onto the desk.  "What?"

"Am I still supposed to be ignoring you?  You're speaking in regards to the device i'm supposed to be ignoring--"

"Aug, no,"  The cat bristled, "It's a PLOT DEVICE.  You don't ignore it, you ignore how it got there.  Aaaanyway," The cat drawled, "the monitor reports several incoming contacts."

"What do you mean, 'Incoming contacts'?  Are we on a starship or in my room?"

"It's your thread, why don't you decide?"  The cat retorted, put out by the constant barrage of questions.

"What do you mean?  It's not like you're telling me that you're going to post this;  I have no control over your silly desire to make this thread even more off topic that it was when everyone else piled in."

"Hmpth,"  The cat conceded, "Alright, we're on a Federation Starship Bridge."

And in that magic that is movie and writing, they suddenly were, complete with the goofy lights and ambient noise.

Commodore Ming surveyed the bridge and dusted off the single triagular pip that denoted the commodore's rank.  "Hey, when did I--"

The cat simply glared at the commodore.

"Oh, FINE.  Report then, Lieutenant."

"Multiple incoming contacts;  At least a couple England, one American, several Swiss, one belgium, and several unidentifieds."  

"Belguim?"

"The order for cheeze was so high the swiss had to subcontract sir.  All are armed with several FT-4's."

"FT?"

"Flame Thread sir."

"And the 4 would denote..."

"Yessir, Starbase version.  Bad feelings all the way out to post 20, critically so under range 5.  We're being boarded sir!"

The turbolift doors blew open and the security guards were quickly stunned, as per what their contracts for this show stated.  Through the conviently dramatic haze of smoke and sparking stations two people emerged;  The first, completely unidentifiable for the terrorist chik bandana and uniform, the other wearing a tutu and a burka.

DH123 strode forward and spoke in arabic. <We are hijacking this thread to talk academically about customised shiplists versus stock shiplists!>

Kroma, not far behind DH123, voiced her assent.  "Kai!"

DH123 continued his tirade.  <We will discuss difficulty levels, the problems with evil dave server compatiably, and bring out the closet skeleton of closet skeletons, SFB!>

"Kai!"

DH123 rounded on Kroma.  <What is this 'Kai!' stuff?  Can't you do a proper arabic fanatical slogan?>

"Well, what's 'Kai!' translate to in arabic then?"  Kroma asked.

DH123 threw his hands in the air, stopped, then looked at Kroma with sudden frankness.  <How the hell should I know?  Holocat's faking arabic by putting <> signs around an english sentence.>

"Damn cheapo writer." Kroma spat.

Commodore Ming chose that time to spoke, "Actually I didn't want to turn this thread into--"

"NO!"  The answer from every thread hijacker was instant and irrefutable.

"But--"

"NO!!!  Must Holocat put more exclamation marks beside that word?!" They chourused.

Ming subsided and looked at his lieutenant.  "What do we do now?"

A little orange eyepiece clicked infront of the little cat's eye, al la 'The Last Starfighter.'  "We die."

The resulting supernovae of flames flashed for some time, and then became no more, Taldren deciding to bury the thread before the flamers got worked up enough to start SFB and balance arguments again.

"It's getting toasty in here,"  The cat remarked.  "Any trout about?"

Holocat.  

Ming

  • Guest
Re: Any Normal campaigns coming soon?
« Reply #41 on: March 24, 2003, 12:42:18 am »
ROFL..You realize you made me spit coffee all over my monitor...

Good story btw! Let me guess..The cat was in reference to the nightmares I had flying in AOTK! And i was allied with the Mirak in that one too.. It smells of a conspiracy!

Funny..I dont see any roms about..
 

Pharoah

  • Guest
Re: Any Normal campaigns coming soon?
« Reply #42 on: March 24, 2003, 01:21:53 am »
Well of COURSE you haven't seen them! They wouldn't be Roms if you HAD seen them.

Have you checked under your keyboard? And in the drawer of the table next to your bed?

Also, your dirty clothes hamper. Shh! Don't look now, you have to wait, then turn real quick. You might catch a pointed little ear slipping back under the lid of that hamper.

Rommies love to hide in dirty clothes hampers...don't know why....but they do.

Honest.

Would I lie?  

Kroma_BaSyl

  • Guest
Re: Any Normal campaigns coming soon?
« Reply #43 on: March 24, 2003, 01:26:39 am »
LMAO, very good story.....BTW, there were no actual flames here, it is just that after years of the same old thing I find that to get DHs motor running I got to spice it up.  Its hard to beat makeup sex....errrrrr....PvP ;-)

Kroma

PS, Kroma is NOT a female, he's a fancy boy.

DH123

  • Guest
Re: Any Normal campaigns coming soon?
« Reply #44 on: March 24, 2003, 09:20:20 am »
Quote:


Time and declining player base have more to do with that than peaople being upset about cheese. Otherwise people would be playing the various stock servers that are usually available. Comparing a server that  was run closer to the release of the game to one that came 2 years after isn't exactly apples to apples. Instead compare AOTK to one of the other stock servers that was running at the same time. Your observation doesn't take into account cause and effect. Maybe the player base has decreased because they got tired of vanilla and didn't bother to check back to see that chocolate was now being served.

Love,
Kroma
XOXOXO  




What other servers?  SFC2.net for a long time was the only game in town and it still is if it has a serious/semi-serious server up.  

If you don't think the declining player base has anything to do with cheese than you obviosly haven't talked to the ISC and Federation Pilots.  

DH123

  • Guest
Re: Any Normal campaigns coming soon?
« Reply #45 on: March 24, 2003, 09:23:45 am »
Quote:

Also, recall that many people were less then ecstatic about the 'Vanilla' server, a little ways before CW6 (iirc). Many people complained that their 'stock' line cruisers couldn't get the job done, and a number of people decided to leave or not participate on that server.

Do I even need to mention 'Frigate Hell'?  




Oh please, that is BS.   The Vanilla server was a failure because it was Federation and Klinks versus everyone else in early era.  The Klinks bolted, and rightly so, because they were getting slaughtered by helebore fighters.  

Nobody wants to got back to that, I just don't want the servers to be to the point where you HAVE to fly a carrier like they are becoming.  

DH123

  • Guest
Re: Any Normal campaigns coming soon?
« Reply #46 on: March 24, 2003, 09:25:37 am »
Quote:

LMAO, very good story.....BTW, there were no actual flames here, it is just that after years of the same old thing I find that to get DHs motor running I got to spice it up.




Do you at least wash your Tutu every once in a while?  

I will give DOE another try as Romulan so I can kill you.  
« Last Edit: March 24, 2003, 09:27:12 am by DH123 »

Kroma_BaSyl

  • Guest
Re: Any Normal campaigns coming soon?
« Reply #47 on: March 24, 2003, 09:59:33 am »
Quote:



What other servers?  SFC2.net for a long time was the only game in town and it still is if it has a serious/semi-serious server up.  

If you don't think the declining player base has anything to do with cheese than you obviosly haven't talked to the ISC and Federation Pilots.  




I see stock servers up and running in the list all the time, there just isn't anyone on them.

The Feds I heard complaining about cheese where not complaining about BCHVs but about AxPFTs and PFs in general, all stock. On ATOK you could probably count the PvP kill attributed to the G-BCHV (cheesious of cheese) on one hand. The very idea of Fed/ISC players complaining about cheese is funny considering they have the cheesious stock shiplist next to the Kitties, not that I am knocking cheese mind you.

I will grant you that the escalation to carriers in late does get tiersome towards the end of servers, but so would flying around in a cruiser the whole time. Sure wish we could get a real OOB with SQL, at least for the rare ships.

Kroma,

PS:
Quote:

Do you at least wash your Tutu every once in a while?




Of course I do twice a year while showering, plus whenever it rains.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 06:00:00 pm by Kroma_BaSyl »

KOTH-Steel Claw

  • Guest
Re: Any Normal campaigns coming soon?
« Reply #48 on: March 24, 2003, 01:49:24 pm »
Stock missions and BB slugfests? Yikes! How boring is that. I like the FF and CL class ships with some CA classes sprinkled in. Makes ya sweat for those victories a little more. I usually end up in nothing bigger than an MCC. I switch to a DD asap and stay there for some time.