Topic: Race Balance - Romulan and FED weapons?

[Wiz33]

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Nice post, I will always think of the Sov as a great powerful ship, however when I play SFC3 there isnt much point in climbing out of a Defiant. One thing you gota admit (think you did), Negh'var v Soverign is a miss match every time, Sphear Prime v Soverign is a miss match every time, leaving only the Warturd to go after. However when you have a Raptor as an alternative DN then why bother.

Its great playing as the smaller ships when your a Fed or it used to be, I dont know about now    

  This I will disagree, The Sov is a quite capable ship, A bit slow but with a leg crew. It can be pretty much maxed out and still manuveur at .80.  Before the Patch, I can take on Sphere Primes 1vs1 and come out on top most of the time till some of the player start putting Tac on their ship. Same against a Neghvar, yes a Negh with 5 Dis IVF up front and a couple of Polaron can be a pain but if he doesn't have tac, I would have win most of the time.

  What the Fed need is not necessary more powerful weapons (I only introduce the Fed/Klin BB because of the cube and Scim). What it need is a Unique weapon that give them a counter against the other race's Unique.  The way I'm thinking is that I'm going to make the Tac a Fed only weapon. Which is a pretty logical step as it's a semi-non-destructive weapon and is used to disable enemy pursuit which in turns fits well with Federation policy.

  With the patch, Rom and Klin can cloak, warp away (in between your pluse) come to a slow speed at a distance and be fairly undetectable. They can hide and repair weapon and shield. The Tac will give the Fed a chance to do the same (not as good as the effect only last a little bit) or at least reduce the number of enemy that can follow for a short time.

  Short of that, it would be nice to at least reduce the effect for the Fed so they can still have a chance to dis-engage and lick their wounds for a bit.

Regards
Wiz  

[Wiz33]

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I still get hammered by Fed and Rommies anti-cloak.  I am in Vorcha with level-5 computer and cloak and legendary officers, I keep my speed down to 1/4 impulse like I'm suppose to, and without probes, I am still targed and thrashed with my shields down.

Add in that 4 second phase in/out of cloak which makes you targetable, but no weapons and sheilds and I am usually one of the first to die in a FFA.  I will continue flying Klingon because I just like them best, guess it is just my contribution to the game to give all the other races such an easy target.  

  Then you are doing it wrong. Althoguh Klin cloak are not as good as Rom. they are still quite useful. If you stay close, they will find you . Especially if they have 3 ship pinging away. Time their Ping and cloak and warp away, stop; change heading and warp. Do that a couple of time and they will have no idea where you are. Remember that time is on your side and remember to put your power to full shield recharge while you're hiding.  

  On the attack (except the first or second salvo when your armor is still good). Set you speed high before you warp so you will start accelerating the moment you come out. De-cloak a fair distance away and make a high speed run. Make use of those freshly recharge shields of your.

  On exit, same thing. Let your high speed carry you a fair distance away and then set slow speed before cloaking.

  A lot of Romulan player I come up against put priority on their cloak over their shields. And those I usually send packing with half a hull left. One thing that I always notice is that most of them still have a fairly decent set of shields when they retreat. Yes the cloak is good but it's not your one stop solution. Your shields are just about as good as other so you can mixed it up inclose for a while.

Regards
Wiz
   

[Suiric]

Giving the tac to the fed might help even the odds a bit.... I like the idea that each race has some uniqueness to it and I might be willing  to bend canon a little bit to get it.... Failing that cause I dont want to start a huge arguement here... allowing blind fire at low percentages would get my vote.... that would not be breaking canon..  
 

[Valerek]

 

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I have...thinking about it that is. One last thing before I end this long and boring article of mine. (Sorry) Your suggestion about the Nebula being exactly as the Galaxy in terms of mass points is flawed and throws canon to the winds. Recall that the Nebula class was designed by Starfleet to be a lower cost, scaled down alternative to the Galaxy class. Also, Nebulas are meant mainly for non-combative roles such as serving as hospital ships and exploration missions, or for light military duties like troop carriers, mobile sensor/listening posts, etc. The mission module is its key for flexibility, but sadly SFC3 does not properly implement this component, IMHO. If you really want to up its mass points, make it just 100 or so behind the Galaxy so as not to offset the need for having a Galaxy in the first place.  

   
You have misunderstood me on the nebula being exactly the same as the galaxy.  

Yes the nebula was designed just after the galaxy as a lower cost alternative.  It shares the same warp core, 8 type X phasers and 2 torpedo launchers as well as many other systems.  It is smaller because of the way the secondary hull is mounted to the saucer section.  It can be made more mission specific through its versatile pods, which can include extra sensors, extra crew quaters for evacs, and an advanced weapons pod.  In the context of this game it would be assumed that the nebula would be equiped with the weapons pod.  The nebula was not designed as a hospital ship.  The "non combative roles" excuse could be argued for the galaxy as well, but it is also well armed, just like the nebula.  The actual weapon pods armnaments are difficult to determine, but different sources state anywhere from 5 to 8 torpedo launchers and three extra phasers. ( the torpedo launchers are smaller and cannot lauch at the same rate as the two standard launchers in the secondary hull.)  Now obviously, if the nebula had all of these weapons there would be a huge unbalance in this game.  Every other ship and race would have to be changed...basically creating  SFC IV.

My suggestion was to increase the nebula mass limits closer to the galaxy, and in turn increase the galaxy's mass limits and have the sovereign as the feds BB.  I am not saying that the sov has to be as strong as the scimitar, because from the movies it is clearly not.

Right now the nebula is the weakest battle cruiser, and in my oppion it should be stronger.

Of course I could change all of this myself in a flash, but I would not be able to play multiplayer online.  Playing AI's all of the time becomes boring fast.....

Perhaps i need to find a server that allows such mods, if there is such a thing.

By the way Wiz, thanks for your post, I will definetly try out your server.  Sounds like you have been doing some good work.

   

[3dot14]

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What I find really amusing about this is that certain members of the Anti-SFB crowd were absolutely certain this sort of argument would never happen in SFC3, since there was no SFB ruleset.  

LMBO!
To his credit, this does't happen as often as it did...

[BorisV]

Personally, I think the  Scimtar is fine. In the movie, it ripped apart two Validores and the Enterprise single-handed. It makes sense that it can dish it out.

Here's an idea to make it more cannon:
Take away some of it's firepower for balance, but give it some of it's cannon abilitys like being able to fire while cloaked. There shouldn't be 3 of them on ANY server, so make it's hull class more expensive and harder to aquire. This would line it up better with the movie.    

[ChamadaIV]

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Quote:
 
I have...thinking about it that is. One last thing before I end this long and boring article of mine. (Sorry) Your suggestion about the Nebula being exactly as the Galaxy in terms of mass points is flawed and throws canon to the winds. Recall that the Nebula class was designed by Starfleet to be a lower cost, scaled down alternative to the Galaxy class. Also, Nebulas are meant mainly for non-combative roles such as serving as hospital ships and exploration missions, or for light military duties like troop carriers, mobile sensor/listening posts, etc. The mission module is its key for flexibility, but sadly SFC3 does not properly implement this component, IMHO. If you really want to up its mass points, make it just 100 or so behind the Galaxy so as not to offset the need for having a Galaxy in the first place.  

   
You have misunderstood me on the nebula being exactly the same as the galaxy.  

Yes the nebula was designed just after the galaxy as a lower cost alternative.  It shares the same warp core, 8 type X phasers and 2 torpedo launchers as well as many other systems.  It is smaller because of the way the secondary hull is mounted to the saucer section.  It can be made more mission specific through its versatile pods, which can include extra sensors, extra crew quaters for evacs, and an advanced weapons pod.  In the context of this game it would be assumed that the nebula would be equiped with the weapons pod.  The nebula was not designed as a hospital ship.  The "non combative roles" excuse could be argued for the galaxy as well, but it is also well armed, just like the nebula.  The actual weapon pods armnaments are difficult to determine, but different sources state anywhere from 5 to 8 torpedo launchers and three extra phasers. ( the torpedo launchers are smaller and cannot lauch at the same rate as the two standard launchers in the secondary hull.)  Now obviously, if the nebula had all of these weapons there would be a huge unbalance in this game.  Every other ship and race would have to be changed...basically creating  SFC IV.

My suggestion was to increase the nebula mass limits closer to the galaxy, and in turn increase the galaxy's mass limits and have the sovereign as the feds BB.  I am not saying that the sov has to be as strong as the scimitar, because from the movies it is clearly not.

Right now the nebula is the weakest battle cruiser, and in my oppion it should be stronger.

Of course I could change all of this myself in a flash, but I would not be able to play multiplayer online.  Playing AI's all of the time becomes boring fast.....

Perhaps i need to find a server that allows such mods, if there is such a thing.

By the way Wiz, thanks for your post, I will definetly try out your server.  Sounds like you have been doing some good work.

   

What you say in first paragraph about the nebula weapons pod would not be a misbalance issue. This is due to the fact that all those extra weapons included in the pod package would require far greater warp power consumption. Standard nebula warp cores in SFC3 context would not be able to handle all of that, and to upgrade your warp core in SFC3 usually means trading speed and manueverability in for more systems power. Not wise. Not to mention the lack of available mass points for all those extra weapon hardpoints...

You called my description of nebula non-combative roles as an excuse. I beg to differ. Let me give you a couple of examples. First one is canon (on film). Remember the end of  Star Trek: Generations? It was the nebula class USS Faragaut that led the recuse and recovery operation of the downed USS Enterprise-D on Veridian IV. The second example is non-canon from ST:  Bridge Commander. During a mission late in the game, the USS Sovereign teams with a nebula class hospital (it is called as such in game) ship in order to aid in the recovery of escape pods near the wreakage of the USS Dauntless galaxy class. Yes, nebulas were in ivolved in the war against the Dominion in DS9, but many were destroyed along with their galaxy cousins throughout the conflict.

In SFC3 oddly enough, the nebula class is a superior battle cruiser than the galaxy. In BC, the Galaxy is a better combat ship (as it should be). Two different games, two different views on which ship is better. IMO, Taldren erred with nebula as the galaxy ought to be (canon-wise) the better ship. If you recall in TNG series, the Enterprise-D destroyed a Klingon K'Vort class BoP with a few well placed shots. On top of that, the galaxy class is supposed to be the near equal, in terms of firepower, of the Romulan D'deridex (warbird BB). I don't think a nebula should be able to compete on a near or better level than the galaxy. It just isn't logical, or right.

To address one other point,  the nebula is only the weakest battlecruiser if you don't refit it well. I play Fed often and find my Neb to be the next best thing to a Sov. With two AI buddies, I whack away at starbases all day long in my Neb with little to no trouble at all. But that is only my experience. Others like yourself tend to disagree...  

[Alexander1701]

  To make IT fun, the federation has the best Mizra strikes in the game.

Alexander